It’s been a year since the County first adopted the ‘Immigration Resolution’ and because of continual participation from more moderate voices, it is now, but a shadow of its original proposed self. The Resolution is, at its core, faulted because of its assertion that illegal immigration has been determined to cause ‘lawlessness and economic hardship’. This declaration has never been substantiated and continues to remain an unfounded claim upon which this resolution was founded.
If you recall, the original version suggested checking immigration status at all public facilities even schools and parks. Thankfully, staff recognized that implementation of such a far reaching and radical policy was unwise. And, with the guidance and suggestion of more reasonable perspectives, began the process of affecting changes to mitigate not only the potential of costly lawsuits but to reign in the more radical elements that initially suggested the plan.
By October, we were left with a short list of 8 identified services that could be ‘reasonably’ restricted combined with a policy that mandated officers to inquire into immigration status with anyone they came into contact with that they believed had ‘probable cause’ to be undocumented. Shortly thereafter, it was determined that 2 of the previously identified services should also not be restricted and the list shrank to 6.
In April, with the start of the planning for the ‘09 Fiscal Plan’ another opportunity presented itself for another scale back when cameras became too costly of an investment. We then lobbied and succeeded in having the Resolution modified so that Officer’s could fallback to the previous policy of ‘reasonable articulable suspicion’ combined with a mandated post-arrest procedure for status checks, Now, the “Immigration Resolution” consists of the restrictions to the 6 services, mandated status checks after arrest and the general resolution. All of this, has born a price tag of $4 million dollars, and for all practical purposes has brought us full circle, back to the place, in essence where we started.
SA,
I for one, did not suggest your solution. So am I exempt?
Elena,
So you have no solutions?
Thanks, Elena. How could I stay away? 🙂
The borders weren’t exactly wide open, but it’s interesting to note that, prior to 9/11, Mexican President Fox wanted open borders as another phase to NAFTA, which caused a large loss of U.S. jobs to cheap Mexican labor. 9/11 ended those talks as the focus shifted to national security issues.
Es_la_ley,
Actually white trash is not racist at all. If you are white trash it is of your own making. You can always stop being white trash. Same with redneck.
A person cannot stop being Latino. A person cannot stop being black, white, asian, Polish. On the other hand, all ethnicities have low lifes. I suppose it is all in how you say it.
SA,
PWC had better than what economists suggest is full rates of employment and the country too had historic low unemployment rates. Where would you suggest we find the workers?
Additionally, it’s reported that 8% of our workforce is undocumented and we have had 5% unemployment. Well you can do the math. Assume the 5% want the jobs that the 8% have been doing like framing, drywalling, roofing, etc… there is an obvious shortfall but if you then consider that an unemployed programmer will most likely not take a job as a roofer then the gap becomes even greater. So, obviously, the removal of 8% of our workforce would be disastrous to our economy.
SA, why on earth would you single out one person who is married to an American? I am not that drowned in legalism. Something that has can be done that hasn’t been done because our government is not as efficient as it should be is not the same as a poulty house that ignores immigration work laws.
No, I wouldn’t report Twinad’s husband. Why would I be that much of a nasty son of a bitch? You wouldn’t know anything about him had she not been truthful.
Corey admittedly accepted this as a political tool, the attorney for IRLI very clearly stated that Corey recognized the political benefits but questioned whether or not it was even a problem.
Secondly, Corey has not been directed to take this on, he volunteered for the job. And he has continually misrepresented information in an attempt to portray a stereotypical scenario; which is very disappointing behavior especially for an elected official.
Alanna is right, according to the FAIR / IRLI guy, Corey Stewart didn’t even know illegal immigration was a problem in PWC when Stirrup and Letiecq first proposed the campaign strategy. Let’s face it, once you pick an issue to run a campaign on, you have to stick with it. The literature and post cards are already printed. Stewart and Stirrup probably felt pretty safe in retaining their seats, but they wanted the “fight” to spread as much as possible to help other Republican candidates. In many ways, Corey was just putting on a show to help other Republicans win, not himself. But then he got so much attention, CNN and FOX “News” coverage and the like, that it unfortunately infiltrated his sense of self. His identity became “the famous guy who cracks down on illegal immigration.”
Some time early this year, or perhaps sooner, he realized he didn’t want to be that guy. He realized Letiecq was poisoning the community. He realized he was looking bad for having associated with him. But he couldn’t get out of the nightmare he created for himself. My new theory is that the email he sent out on April 26th was another big show.
(If you didn’t see the film, the email is a battle cry for Citizens’ Time speeches and emails to his colleagues on the Board.)
In other words, he was putting on a show like he did during the campaign in ’07. But this time it was not for election returns, but just to preserve the false identity that had invaded his psyche : “the famous guy who cracks down on illegal immigration.”
Now that he’s come to realize the real problems the county is facing, I’m sure he’d prefer to become “the repentant guy who wants to prove he can work with his fellow Board members and lead this county forward.” But he needs some prodding to choose that direction. Unfortunately, the only people talking to him are HSM members….
SecondAlamo,
Let’s give TWINAD’s husband the same penalties as my husband received in 1996. Heck there could be people that came into the country before my husband did that are looking at fines and penalties that are completely outlandish especially when one considers what the penalty had been before. And, unless you are very familiar with the immigration system you might not be privy to this information.
What do you think would be a fair fine/penalty for an undocumented father of one, who owns a home, has never used public welfare benefits, does not have a criminal record, is a tax-payer, and provides for his family? In all seriousness, I am curious.
Anon-100, Thank you. I simply didn’t understand what you were saying or referencing. I was unaware that there was any specific crime report floating about where ethnicity was differentiated. That is the reason the your paragraph made no sense to me. The only crime report I have seen is the one using data from the police department that Alanna compiled and emailed me.
I don’t believe in ‘sides.’ I would think the only side involving crime would be the AGAINST side.
Since the email is public record, who was it from?
Moon-howler, I meant two sides to every story. And there are statistics that are kept, they just aren’t put out there.
Raymond Colgan
Corey is the politician who is going to have to make an adjustment. The coming elections will further marginalize him and the moderates on the BOCS have the ability to make him inconsequential as well.
The one-industry town in which I grew up was closely tied to the construction biz. They were in dire need of more workers in the mills and were considering taking the business overseas in order to remain viable. They had already tried recruiting people in bordering states, even going so far as to pay them to relocate. But the workers would return home. After the building boom associated with the Atlanta Olympics many Hispanic workers made their way to the chicken farms and the dominant industry in town. The mill owners further recruited workers (as well as teachers) from Mexico. There appeared to be no problems and little hostility to the new workers for many years. The good times rolled. Now that a recession looms, FAIR/Lou Dobb’s abetted friction has risen. The fact that the jobs would now be overseas if not for the Hispanic workers appears to be forgotten.
SA,
For the record, my husband works on his own with no employees. The only time he uses anyone besides himself is if one of his brothers wants to help him on the weekend. And in that case, yes, they are paid and taxes recorded. Also for the record, I own 90% of the business and he gets a guaranteed salary, plus 10% of the profits. He does not get a W2 because he is a partner. But he has a valid SS # anyway because we went through the process to get him documented, but ultimately, there is no path currently that would allow someone in his position to become legal. So if I, as the business majority partner is going to be arrested, then PWC will lose someone who works a regular day job making 3 times as much as the average family in PWC, plus they lose a small business. Not to mention a child would be left without a parent. It sounds like this is what needs to be done!
All I’m saying is that you folks are from the ‘Court of Human Sympathy’ and are incapable of applying any law that may be enacted as a solution, because you are too emotionally involved. So therefore I see that this blog will never agree to the enforcement actions required, because as with TWINAD’s husband, you will always seek the human side of the issue and disregard the fundamental application of written law. I see it all the time in major cases where people demonstrate on behalf of even serial killers (just a worst case example). They always are concerned with the individual no matter what they’ve done. The enforcement of law would be impossible under those conditions for someone would always feel compassion and prevent the penalty from being applied. This is the difference I see between this blog and the other. You are from the ‘Court of Human Sympathy’ where as they are from the ‘Court of Legal Rule’, and in this or any other country laws created by the governed must be enforced or anarchy will prevail.
TWINAD,
Once again, you make a very compassionate statement about your situation, but as everyone else it is you that must be held accountable for your actions. You married into a situation of your own making. You knowingly joined with a person who was illegally residing in this country, and now you would have us give you a pass because your life has evolved. I’ve seen compassionate family members displayed on TV discussing their poor family member who broke the law. I know this sounds harsh, but too bad. Certainly their must be some penalty for breaking the law. In your case perhaps a judge would see your point and go as light as possible, but the law must still be equally applied until you have your ‘day in court’. That’s just the way it works in this country. Tell it to the judge!
And the courts always exercise quite a bit of discretion. Judges and our immigration system don’t operate as rigidly as the Black Velvets and right-wingers of the Republican party.
Frank Principi and Marty Nohe rock.
In case anyone cares, here’s my idea for a revised, national immigration plan.
http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/2008/07/my-revised-immigration-plan.html
SA,
So it would be better, in your opinion, for another home in an area of Manassas that can ill afford another foreclosure, to have yet another one. And, by the way, when we got married, there was no reason to think there would be a problem adjusting his status. Up until April 2001, there was a way we could have adjusted his status. We were together then, but didn’t get married until December 2001 and by the time we saved enough money to file to change his status (several thousand $$$) the “law” had been changed. I could not have applied to adjust his status until we were married (weren’t in April 2001) and had the money to pay the fines and for the paperwork. By then the law had changed. We are still waiting for it to “change back” and in the meantime have built a great life that not only benefits us, but many other people. Also in the meantime, notice how many more “illegals” there are than there were in 2001. Why do you think that is? It’s because since 2001 there is no longer any route to legalization. Prior to that, one needed a sponsor (wife, employer etc.) to sponsor them and then they could adjust their status. A great many of the “legal” immigrants that so many people say are not the problem were once illegal, too. In fact a man my husband came over here with is now here legally and has subsequently had his 3 kids and wife move here too. All legally. Why is he better than my husband? He’s not, just found a way to adjust his status earlier.
What I’m saying is, there should be a path for people that have been here long enough and can demonstrate that they have been good “citizens” even if they aren’t “real” citizens. Why would we want to punish people like me is the question? What purpose would it serve?
Of course, I am prepared to up and move my life out of the US if that is what it comes to, but it makes no rational sense to anyone I personally know or who knows me. You can rail on the “personal” level of things, but it is real. I’m a VP with a large international real estate company. They have already told me that I will have a job in Central America for me if it comes to that, but I can tell you, my region does not want to lose me to Central America.
Thank you Twinad, for your very real life example. Not so black and white is it SA?
SA,
There are SEVERAl posts of mine that outline what I believe are some reasonable places to begin with immigration reform. However, I don’t claim to be an immigration expert, I point out previous immigration history of this country and clarify how it mimics itself today, almost verbatum. I point out facts from the Dept of Labor and urge other people to question information that comes from FAIR et al. I urge people to investigate their sources. I believe the solution to immigration is a holistic approach, including not just reform in this country, but reaching out to other countries and ascertaining how our policies might actually be working in detrimentals ways, like NAFTA.
Elena and Twin, I know why you are responding to Elvis but you don’t have to prove a thing to him or anyone for that matter. Your record for logic, problem solving, and fairness stands on its own.
Twin, you and your husband deserve more than people’s rotten attitudes, as you know. You deserve to be recognized citizens and advocates for immigration reform.
“You deserve to be recognized citizens and advocates for immigration reform.”
I meant: “You deserve to be recognized AS citizens and AS advocates for immigration reform.”
TWINAD,
No ill feelings, I’ve only used you as a topic because you admitted to your situation, and unfortunately for you and your family in the eyes of the law you are still liable to law enforcement. Agreed that your case has great merit and you would receive no penalty in all likely hood, but my point was to show that the enforcement of law is a tough job. If you are willing to create laws, then you must also be willing to enforce them. I’m saying that the majority of those here I feel wouldn’t be able to enforce them the instant someone came up with a tale of woe no matter how small. It’s as if expecting to get off if every time you’re pulled over for speeding you tell the officer a sob story and you expect to be let go. Everyone could do that, and then where would we be? The sob story must be saved for court, not to prevent the enforcement of the law in the first place.
TWINAD,
When I read your post, my immediate thought is “But for the Grace of God go I”, if this current immigration law had been in place 5 years earlier we would have faced the exact same scenario. Part of the injustice that I see is the discrepancy in penalties and fines. We really received no fine or penalty, if my memory serves it was an increased filing fee but nothing too substantial. But now, the penalty is 10 years which is extremely harsh considering what it had been just a few years prior.
as far as I’m concerned the resolution has done nothing to relieve my pain, I wanted alanna and elena deported for being stupid but sadly that’s not in the resolution. I asked for a modification but they said no. If any one wants to give me a call please do and I would be willing to discuss my phone number is: 867-5309, just ask for jenny (my code name)
twinad is a freaking illegal, he/she should be in jail not typing the internet..I hope ICE is watching and he/she/it’s family is deported back to whence they came.
Kgottardt, They are responding to SA who is far more reasonable to talk with than’ he who is being shunned at the moment.’
2nd Alamo, I believe this blog does put a human face on problems. I will not argue with you at all about that. However, I do feel that we are a law abiding group. The other folks also equivocate when it comes to the rule of law. They parade all over the 7-11 parking lot and access road when it clearly says NO LOITERING. They must feel it is ok because they have the noble cause and the day laborers do not. The law does not agree with them.
Additionally, the blog owner feels it is perfectly alright to stretch, bend and mutilate the truth for a greater good, in his mind. Character assassinations and ufb spin on issues are acceptable in his mind and in the mind of his followers apparently. Some of what I have read is unacceptable, for any reason. Perhaps legally he squeaks by. However, that really isn’t the end of the line for many of us.
I would characterize this phenomena you talk about as just a difference of values. People do what they feel they need to do. How many people prepare their taxes using every receipt? How many people stop at a stop sign fully at 2 in the morning? Who has ever brought a pen or paper clip home from work and not returned it? Rule of Law and human nature are not always on the same course.
While the law tends to be black and white, the human condition is a multi-dimensional phenomena. Sometimes common sense must prevail, as in the case of Twinad and her family.
Elvis,
ICE has had the opportunity to take my husband in twice…we went for personal interviews twice. If ICE really wanted to enforce the law, they could. They could have made a phone call and had him taken away the same day he came for the interviews. But they don’t. They don’t want hard working, law abiding people deported. They know the country can’t afford that. We still live in the same house we lived in when we applied to change his status several years ago. No one is coming to look for him, nor will they. This may be your dream, but it’s not happening. ICE wants criminals and they perform the occasional workplace raid to placate groups such as HSM and to “look tough” on immigration when necessary. The reality is the vast majority of those taken in even in employment raids are released quickly and won’t be deported for years by the time they get through the system.
Yes, if it happens that they do come looking for him and we have to go to court, we MAY have a strong enough case to get his status changed (if we got a compassionate judge), but that can’t be guaranteed, so until I have a guarantee that his status change will be granted, we will take our chances and live under the radar and only go to court if it becomes necessary. We would have a lot better chance of him getting his status changed if 1. I had about 6 kids instead of 1 2. had no education instead of a degree, 3. had health problems instead of being healthy, and 4. had no job instead of the great paying job I have now. Makes perfect sense, right?! If only I was a dummy with no education and a passel of kids, we could all stay together!
You also seem to be under the impression that I am an immigrant. I am not. I am as white as GL and born and raised in the USA. And frankly, I no longer feel the allegiance to this country that I once did. When I recite the Pledge, where is the “liberty and justice for all”? Why am I not at liberty to marry the person I chose and feel secure that my own government will not try to separate us? Where is the justice in that?
Elivs,
You got the phone number wrong it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqUPApCUt90
Elvis,
OPPPPS…I admit when I am wrong, I was wrong…LOL, you beat me to the punch!
call me anyway, we will do lunch 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7LZRaHz0Q8
Oh, I didn’t realize “Elvis has left the building”! I just saw his post from 20:04 today on a thread below that claims it will be his last and that he will no longer be frequenting this blog.
Don’t know what got him “all shook up”, but he’s gone. Good work, gals.
Someone call ICE on Elvis please. Or call the police or the dog catcher or anyone who might be able to cart him away. It doesn’t matter who at this point.
On a different note, the laws in this country get overturned and changed all the time. Immigration law is no exception. There’s nothing wrong with trying to get a law changed. I’ve been doing it for years, as have any people trying to get more justice in this country. You know what real liberty is? The power to demand justice and have a shot at actually getting it.
You hang in there, Twin. I bet you and your husband will have justice when all this is over.
I thought Elvis was a girl. Didn’t he/she say so?
TWINAD, I have a serious question for you. If for some reason your husband has to leave the country, and you have said you will go with him, will it be that easy for you? To just say I am going to go to his country of origin and that you won’t be forced to follow the immigration laws of that nation?
And please don’t think I’m being nasty about this, I genuinely want to know. I just don’t think it would be that easy.
Anon-100,
No, it won’t be that easy and no, we won’t be going to his country of origin if it comes to that. My company has a Central American office, but not in his country. If he has to leave, he won’t be deported overnight. It would be many months, if not years, before his case would be decided. We would have plenty of time to figure it all out. And with me essentially being transferred within my company, it would be fairly easy for me to get permission to work in the country we would be going to. People at the director level and above are transferred around the country and to other countries on a regular basis. And the country that I would be relocated to doesn’t forbid resident’s of his home country from settling there. So that wouldn’t be a problem.
What would be a problem for me is that my son is an American and deserves to be educated here. (Although I guess since he is the son of an “illegal” some people probably think that no, he isn’t a full American and doesn’t deserve an American education).
Here’s another good one…PWC taxpayers will be paying for my son to receive extra services in the gifted program next year…no, not ESL, but the smart kid program. Oh, the horror! The son of an illegal is going to be provided with extra services at taxpayer’s expense! I guess he should be disqualified from receiving these services since he is only “1/2 American”. I guess he should only be allowed to vote every other year when he is an adult, too.
Twinad,
Having met you and your husband, it is clear that our government has created, with their lack of forsight, this situation. How is it, that within months of being married, it is now impossible to adjust his status? How arbitrary! It is interesting, when SA and others speak of “rule of law”, that somehow, there is no “legal” mauevering that is reasonable. At the stroke of midnight, several years ago, you became entrenched in this immigration mess. Now, what happens when, and it will happen, there is another stroke of midnight, and immigration reform is born. Is your husband still a “criminal” in their eyes?
SA,
You write as though the human factor has no place in this discussion, but that is unreasonable, in order for laws to be just in a civil society, the human factor must be taken into account.
Anon100,
That was a very thoughtful question, thank you for posting it, I was interested in her answer also.
All sides of the immigration issue want to change minds so bad it seems, all sides have their “Elvi” (Elvis plural?), all sides say the others are racist, and all sides have endless stats and facts claiming righteousness. The only problem is that if there is no documentation, there are only loose ballpark guesses. Hence, the importance of the documentation.
My mind keeps going to the lifeboat analogy, where US Citizens are on a crowded lifeboat, and there are tons of undocumented aliens in the water trying to get on. The US citizens are conflicted – they can’t sit there and watch them drown, but if they let them all on at once, their boat might sink. And to add to their moral conflict, the US citizens also watched the alien’s boats sink, and they don’t want to share the same fate. Many of the aliens have already snuck aboard the USA’s boat, and a recognizable amount of them are causing problems. However, we are the USA, and we are founded on immigrants, so we need to let as many on the boat that we can. But the US citizens must maintain order and document the amount of folks who get on the boat to make sure we keep out the same element that caused their boats to sink. It is a sad fact, but many of those innocent aliens who have patiently waited are going to drown waiting. The only people to blame for those drowning are those “cutting in line” by sneaking on, and those who sunk the alien’s boat. The US boat is already doubling its own population letting way more people on then it can withstand.
Diversity is a great thing for PWC, but not at a rate so fast it can’t even be documented. Documentation is not just a piece of paper saying someone can work. It is how we get the facts to make educated decisions that will benefit our country. Some undocumented immigrants would make great US citizens, and others, not so much. However we do not know who is who without documentation, and there are a considerable amount of bad-behaving illegal aliens. If I were a hard working undocumented alien, my deepest anger would be reserved for other the violent criminal aliens who are ruining it for everyone else (and for those who caused my home country to fail). I would try to earn the respect of US citizens who are bailing you out, not claim entitlement on them. And by all means I wouldn’t cause any trouble.
Mexico and Latin America are failing financially to the point where hundreds of thousands of people are doing whatever necessary to get in the states. Many US citizens see the catastrophic failures of Mexico and Latin America, and we are scared of having our country share in those failures. This makes US citizens cautious, not racist. Most US citizens who share this view love people of all colors. We are proud to be founded on our diversity, but we are also not ashamed of our own identity and see no problem in protecting it.
The sign at 7500 attempts to point out hidden truths about Americans of European dissent stealing Native American’s (but truthfully, Latin American’s) land, and now they would like it back. But the real hidden truth is that the aliens don’t really care for the land itself; they only want it because of what US citizens (of all nationalities) have made it – “the land of opportunity”. Modern-day illegal aliens want it only because US citizens have created financial opportunity with it.
Good letter Chris 🙂
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/supervisors_should_respect_their_elders/18369/