What would your reaction be if this man, Davi Rodriguez drove up and down the main drag in the City of Manassas? How about past Coverstone 7-11?
Is his method better or worse than the course of action taken by Mr. Fernandez? You be the judge.
According to Channel 13 news out of Sacramento:
.
A story from CBS 13 in Sacramento, California featured one man ennobled by his passion for confronting day laborers with a trailer-mounted billboard saying “DEPORT THEM ALL.”
Davi Rodriguez drives the sign up and down the streets of Sacramento where day laborers wait for work, sometimes videotaping the reactions and uploading them to YouTube. Workers we talked to say they feel harassed, and they’re losing jobs
.
If you squint your eyes, click your heels together 3 times, you might just think you were back in Kansas.
“(elena….) when she herself doesnt work?”
Raising a family with small children and taking care of a home is quite a bit of work, in case you never tried it Elvis. Fortunately, it’s the kind of work that allows some flexibility. Unfortunately, in order to work OUTSIDE the home, moms need a job with even MORE flexibility. When you come back as a woman with children in your next life, please report in…..let us know how you manage.
Mackie, don’t worry, unless your car is stolen, that license plate reader technology won’t track your whereabouts, unless you’re wanted or part of an investigation. No police department is going to run 1500 registrations per minute to find out who owns the car. The machine is used to compare the plates that are read with the stolen vehicles entered into the National system, thereby enhancing the chance of vehicle recovery.
By the way Mackie, you’re painting an excess of 1/2 million police officers across the nation in strictly negative terms because of some bad apples. Should we use the same logic to broad brush illegal immigrants for the bad apples in their group? I can give you a list of illegal alien bad apple acts in Prince William to make my point, including murderers, rapist, child molesters, burglers etc.
My point is, don’t paint others with a broad brush if you don’t want it done to a group you support.
I think the only candidate HSM might have objected to would have been Smith, Censored. Way and Wolfe were both described by Greg as “a fine choice.” Check it out.
I’m guessing you don’t live in the City, do you, Censored? Because people here hate that sign and it is alienating many folks and eroding any shred of sympathy they may have for Mr. F’s cause. Easy for you to stand on your high horse and tell us what we have to put up with, so you can feel like some self-righteous hero of the downtrodden.
DiversityGal, Mr. Fernandez has left an unsafe structure standing and is violating zoning restrictions that us non-Hispanics without pricey activist lawyers would never get away with. That gets beyond free speech, and opens the door for a lot other “hate” groups to erect similar structures to make their point. Is that what you want?
Elvis,
Elena didn’t post this thread, Moon-howler did. Fact checking 😉
Lucky, if Mackie’s car is stolen, he’ll be crying to those police he hates so much, trust me. Laws are for everyone else, not for him.
Emma and Lucky,
I am reading his message from a different perspective and that would be of Big Brother?
Does this not concern anyone in the least? Who is in control? WE the people?
“He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees.”
Benjamin Franklin
Just a thought 🙂
hate bunny jpeg…
http://www.monkeytypist.com/images/content/bunny001.jpg
This man is exercising his free speech rights (the right to hold up a political sign), without violating zoning laws and other community ordinances. Though you may not like the content, he has the right as long as he is NOT BREAKING ANY EXISTING LAW.
Red Dawn, 17. July 2008, 19:34
‘He that would live in peace and at ease, must not speak all he knows nor judge all he sees.”
Benjamin Franklin
Ben’s my favorite Founder. I couldn’t pick a favorite quote (there are too many) but the one you posted is a great one.
Mackie’s posts in this thread and others are consistently critical of law enforcement officers. Are there bad apples, absolutely. But this blog has also consistently decried the use of a broad brush against anyone. So why is it acceptable for a multiple contributor to this blog to use a broad brush against law enforcement? I was merely telling him that such an action can go both ways, that he cannot have it both ways.
There are multiple instances in this community of illegal alien criminal acts to include multiple homicides, rapes, child molesters etc, yet, we all scream when we use those to paint the entire illegal alien community. So, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander…
Don’t use a tactic you abhor used against a group you support. That’s all I am saying.
sorry..
“don’t use a tactic you abhor against another group”.
Emma,
I live in the City of Manassas. I have lived here since I was 3 years old (moved from Manassas in Prince William County). I lived in the same house until college, and moved back to the city when I was done. I purchased my own home in the City of Manassas and am a proud resident.
As a City of Manassas citizen, I support Mr. Fernandez’ s efforts. This Caucasian girl does not feel alienated in the slightest, and I know lots of other City of Manassas residents who feel like I do. Please do not think I am trying to speak for every person who opposes the resolution; I am just letting you know that I am one of many in the City of Manassas residents who understands what Mr. Fernandez is doing.
Of course I don’t want hate groups to put up signs. According to a 2001 SLPC report, however, they already have in our state…
“FAIR recently helped run a billboard campaign in Virginia blaming immigrants for traffic and sprawl.”
Red Dawn,
Lol!
Do NOT click on this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PWJFVpzxKw&feature=related
Red Dawn
Regarding the economic divide that is fast approaching…..this one’s for you. Dig the boots and all that rawhide. Yummy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUSDS9pkA2Y
Red Dawn – not a ‘yummy’, bit more serious but kind of fits the whole scene – WE ARE ONE BUT WE ARE NOT THE SAME…..
That’s it for me. Next I would have to jump to something more fun – “Johnny” anyone??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWPeVfWB9o
Lucky Duck,
Re: your response @ 19:59
Roger, 10-4, gotcha on the check-check there about broad brushing. How about the idea that we are moving toward the one artist, that will paint the brush? I ask, are we not already the judge, jury and executioner in the media, blogs, etc…?
Why have a court of law if the damage is greater BEFORE that day in court ( that can be postponed, etc..due process…innocent until proven guilty…..or just like the damn sign, IT will have it’s day in court-as it should..BUT just STOP and look at this example and what is going on)
Okay another song 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYFMDhW1o68
I see my reflection in the window
It looks different, so different than what you see
Projecting judgement on the world
This house is clean babe
This house is clean
Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
I look out my window and see it’s gone wrong
Court is in session and I slam my gavel down!
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector
I see my reflection in the window
This window clean inside, dirty on the out
I’m looking different then me
This house is clean babe!
This house is clean
Am I who I think I am?
Am I who I think I am?
Oh, Am I who I think I am?
I look out my window and see it’s gone wrong
My court is in session and now I slam my gavel down!
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector, Detector
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
I’m judge and I’m jury and I’m executioner too
Projector, Protector, Rejector, Infector
Projector, Rejector, Infector
Injector, Defector, Rejector
I drink from the cup of denial
I’m judging the world from my throne
I drink from the cup of denial
I’m judging the world from my throne, Yeah
So why do you support Mr. Fernandez’s right to put up a sign on the unstable remnants of a building he was ordered to demolish? Why do you think he should be freer to express himself than “hate groups”? At least the guy with the truck isn’t breaking any laws. Mr. Fernandez doesn’t even live in the City, and last I checked, the Resolution he is protesting was passed in PWC.
I’m not surprised that you support him, nor that your friends would be of like mind. So what is your point?
Mackie,
I still can’t beat your post of Animal Farm, as I still think that was clever as ever and had the best giggle, still enjoying it……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igSA8HdR_Q
LOL 🙂 Cheers!
Juturna,
That’s right girlfriend,that’s all we may have, to live on a prayer.. faith and optimism.
Never give up 🙂
es_la_ley,
Benjamin rocks… ohhhhh, what we can LEARN from our elders 🙂
Emma, which of those candidates stressed immigration and which stressed economic stability,schools, and arts? Are you telling me that Core and Wood weren’t the prefered candidates of HSM from the five (?) running?
No, I’m not a Manassas City resident, but I shop and eat there frequently. I pass the sign several times a week and it doesn’t bother me. Mr. F could have torn down the remaining wall of the house, put two posts in the ground, and handpainted a sign on a sheet and attached that to the post. Then we’d be discussing freedom of speech. There’s no guarantee that that won’t be the issue in the end afterall.
You can rail about it and the Council all you like, but you never answer whether you’re willing to squander tax dollars on another, doomed approach. What’s your solution other than complaining?
Other than people on the blogs, I’ve heard only three people (one from from Clifton, two locals) express shock or disgust with the sign. I’ve found that most people ignore it…even those at the farmer’s market. My sister was shocked by the size of it having only seen pictures in the newspaper though.
“So why do you support Mr. Fernandez’s right to put up a sign on the unstable remnants of a building he was ordered to demolish? ”
The remnants of the building have not been proven to be unstable or stable.
Lucky Duck,
You make a good point.
Mackie, I think most of us here support law enforcement officers, in particular, the Prince William County Police. Because their professionalism has come under repeated question by the ‘Resolution crowd,’ not for any specific actions but because it was politically expedient, it is more important than ever to give them our loyalty.
I think it is fair to ask you to not broad-brush all law enforcement. If you have particular issues with specific examples, by all means, go for it. Isn’t it enough that Michael takes cheap shots?
You’re not a resident, you don’t pay taxes to the City, so of course you don’t mind it. Many City residents DO mind, especially those who have had their own zoning permit applications denied for one reason or other. Believe me, people are not ignoring the wall at the Farmers Market. I go every Saturday, so I know. What do you expect them to do about it when they are there, firebomb it? No, unlike Mr. F., they put up with it and get on with their day, because THEY respect the law. Since the matter is going to court in October, all the protest in the world isn’t going to make any difference right now.
So you shop and eat in Old Town occasionally, so what? Why don’t you offer your front yard to Mr. Fernandez if he loses in court?
Bet I know the answer to that one: “But Emma, I live in an HOA. They wouldn’t allow it.”
What “doomed approach” are you talking about, anyway? The existing one in PWC that you don’t happen to like? Or ANYTHING that tries to limit or reduce the impact of illegal immigration in any way?
Thank you Moon-Howler.
For you, Mackie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSbJGxuj2o
And for “The Office” fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbdGN9jy7Qk
I love it, and he isn’t even stating anything as generally offensive as Fernandez, and yet this got all of you so fired up. I’d have to say this is a case of ‘you can dish it out, but you can’t take it’. LOL, and very entertaining. Notice how we have treated Fernandez with civility, and yet this guy’s simple sign has already been vandalized when it came to a stop. Perhaps he should travel to Old Town and do a bit of driving. Now wouldn’t THAT make for headlines!
I’m sure it would be cool as long as he stayed out of the Haymarket HOA neighborhoods.
Mr. F should give up his bus seat and move to the back of the bus, that’s the law. Everybody must follow the law, without the law we would have anarchy.
What “doomed approach” are you talking about, anyway? The existing one in PWC that you don’t happen to like? Or ANYTHING that tries to limit or reduce the impact of illegal immigration in any way?
I’m talking about the desire to push your elected officials to do anything expedient, to disallow “preferential treatment” (gotta love that new talking point). Just what exactly do you expect the Council to do that it isn’t doing? You want to blame them for following the law. I thought the law is the law is the law.
Do you even live anywhere near the sign? I wonder if you happen to see it any more often than I do.
You really make an a$$ of yourself if you assume I live in an HOA. Mr. F’s sign isn’t in your yard. There’s no reason for it to be in mine. It’s in his and we’ll see how this interesting bit of history ends this fall – maybe.
Just checking in for the first time since the early afternoon!
Mackie,
Lucky Duck makes a very valid point, there are bad apples in every group, lets not broad brush our police department. Chief Dean showed real courage when he told the Board their “resolution would have unintended consequences”. He challenged the status quo during a time in our county when that took real courage. He was a true professional, always having the best interest of all residents in this county. He is a wonderful example for his police department and I am sure he is well recognized for his leadership during these trying times. My ride along with the police officer was a great experience, and if he is an example of our police force, we are in good hands.
SA,
did you forget the molotav (sp?) cocktail that destroyed the first sign by Mr. Fernandez?
Hey, where’s all those free speech supporters that were here when the subject was Fernadez’s sign? I distinctly remember many people here saying that although they may not agree with the sign they still support Fernandez’s right to exercise his free speech. So that same right is afforded regardless of the message. Hypocrisy!
Elena,
The sign was not destroyed by any molotov cocktail. A bottle was found near the sign but no damage was done. Face it, if an identical billboard stating anti Hispanic opinions was in Manassas you know damn well it would have been destroyed by now. Give me a break!
So do you have a problem with Mr. Rodriguez’s sign, Censored?
Bring it On, great to see you. It’s been awhile. You never answered my question about this:
Still wondering what you meant. Surely you didn’t mean to stereotype the ENTIRE population now, did you?
SA, don’t forget that the first sign was ripped and several popsicle signs with naughty messages were left on site.
Emma, personally I don’t have a problem with it. I find it an interesting local lesson in history, hate, tolerance, code enforcement, film-making, public discussion, David vs. Goliath, action and reaction, and a host more. The California driver could take a lesson in creativity from Mr. F.
And there was a lot of talk that Mr. Fernandez might have defaced his own property because he wasn’t getting enough attention at the time. I really miss the “no trespassing” signs that he had up there not too long ago. Delicious irony for a guy who doesn’t believe in borders.
If this guy took lessons from Fernandez, then he would have to put racist statements all over his rather benign sign to match the racist statements by Fernandez. So that is what you are suggesting?
Oh wait a minute, I just checked my deck of race cards, and I just realized there isn’t a card for white Europeans. My mistake, I guess Fernandez isn’t promoting racism after all.
Yup. I’ll agree about the “no trespassing” sign even though it was more than likely placed to prevent vandalism and for insurance purposes. The message should have remained similar to the first message in my opinion…he had a lot of sympathy for that message. I think he’s gotten some bad advice on this last message.
SA, haven’t you heard the mantra of La Raza: “For the race, everything, for everyone else, nothing”?
You and I are “everyone else.” Otherwise, they are quite tolerant.
Emma,
Well said! Lets put that on a sign, or maybe a few hundred bumper stickers. Freedom of speech you know!
Speaking of bumper stickers…I’ve yet to see a single one anywhere for HSM. Where are they?
Rick Bentley, I realize your remark was a long time ago, but I am curious where on earth you came up with the notion that the average border crosser is paying 10-20K a piece to coyotes. Even just a moment’s reflection would make that obviously not true.
This is from a 2006 article:
“Border experts say the price for Mexican migrants has quadrupled from $300 to more than $1,200 since 1994, when the U.S. last tightened the rules. One migrant told The Associated Press he recently paid $1,300 to get across.”
And from an Arizona Republic article a couple of days ago all about coyotes:
“The cartels’ shifting tactics show how the smuggling of people increasingly has become an organized business. Typically, a Mexican immigrant pays a smuggler $1,500 to $2,000 in fees, paying a portion up front to reach and then cross the Mexico border. Then a coyote takes the immigrant to a drophouse in Phoenix and holds him or her hostage until the final balance is wired from a friend or relative in the U.S.”
I found lots of other articles with similar amounts. Why state something so ludicrous? Even given (ahem) inflation in such matters, the average sum would not be anything remotely close to what you write. It would not make any economic sense. I bring this up only because it is similar to all the other ridiculous numbers one sees on this issue. Why the penchant for exaggeration on your side of the political fence?
Emma,
My point was that not all people in the City of Manassas think the sign is bad. I am a perfect example of that.
Again, if Mr. Rodriguez wants to go around town with that sign, he can do that. I don’t agree with his message, but it’s his right.
Zoning restrictions aside, lots of people have been “getting away” with putting up billboards for some controversial stuff for some time now:
USA Today cites a 2005 Coalition for a Secure Driver’s License billboard in Raleigh, NC that depicts a man in Arab clothing holding a grenade and a license, calling him a terrorist.
Rediff.com cites a series of billboards put up by Craig Nelson protesting ANY immigration (not just illegal) in Queens and Brooklyn, NY.
Pacific News cited a 1998 billboard on the CA/AZ border calling California “The Illegal Immigration State “(put up by the Californa Coalition for Immigration Reform).
I wonder what happen if Mr. Fernandez had rock-solid legal permission to have that sign up in his yard…does that mean that everyone would be OK with the sign? Am I supposed to believe that no one would be complaining about it publicly? I hear what some people keep bringing up about the zoning and the law. It’s hard for me to believe that it’s just about legality for those who claim this, when the first complaints we heard from some community members were about the CONTENT of the Liberty Wall. I can’t and won’t just forget that. I know I keep using this metaphor, but the legality issue is a convenient mask for prejudice. Maybe not for all, but for some…
Emma,
Just so you don’t sound misinformed, I thought you may want to know the actual translation of La Raza :
What does the term “La Raza” mean?
“The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people,” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. Some people have mistranslated “La Raza” to mean “The Race,” implying that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”
I am not so sure La Raza has a mantra. Would someone please verify this statement from a mainstream publication. I have always found La Raza to be an advocacy organization for American Latinos, much like the NAACP. Sure, I have heard all the vilification crap and that is what it is.
SA, the thread was posted to stimulate conversation. I would say that both men were entitled to their comments as a free speech issue. While I didn’t take a position when I posted it, that would be my take. Mr. F isn’t being challenged on content, but rather on medium of presentation…aka..zoning violation. That doesn’t mean I like either sign.
Emma, you sure have made a bunch of assumptions about people here. Censored is about as far away from being in a HOA as one can get.
Emma:
Cute video. Here’s one for you. It’s not so cute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsPZsPSa_fw
Scary video…I couldn’t watch it all. I might have nightmares!
Mackie,
Not sure I get it? New World Order has some roots in anti-semetism. I don’t know what was more frightening, the video or the comments!
Emma,
You may refuse to believe it, but I fully support law and order. However, I do not support the abuse of power in any way. We the People can play a valuable role in preventing the abuse of power by staying well informed and sending letters to our elected officials and involving the media.
But staying well informed is up to us. And using our participatory system of government requires that we get involved and sacrifice time and energy together to improve our society. Looking the other way and slavishly and mindlessly devoting ourselves to never questioning the law means we will continue to have destructive resolutions ripping our county in two.
While I would always advocate a non-violent approach to social change, the video I posted above is an example of the emotional frustration many Americans are feeling at where our country is going. Why is it that even though most Americans want us out of Iraq, we continue to stay? Why is it that even thought most Americans worry about securing the border from terrorists, it still remains unsecured? Why aren’t our leaders listening to us and responding? Ultimately, we have to expend the energy necessary to improve our society. Our form of government is a high maintenance form of government. Unless each one of us gets involved and is willing to speak their mind, our society will slowly decay.
Elena,
I was having a little fun with Emma. Maybe she’ll run the wine cellar now to break out a fresh bottle to calm her nerves. Raise a glass for me Emma!
Elena,
I apologize if you were offended. I certainly didn’t mean it that way. The New World Order is a conspiracy theory I don’t give any credence to just as I don’t give any credence to the 9-11 truth movement.
The first George Bush clumsily coined this term when he was president and the conspiracy theorists took that ball and ran with it.
I think what they’re doing is watching disturbing developments in the world and trying to impose a vision where there’s a secret society guiding everything.
Whereas I tend to see these disturbing developments as manifestations of a simple concept that has always been true: Power corrupts.
There is no secret society guiding everything. Corrupt leaders are the problem. They will abuse our rights if we let them. It is the nature of power that it grows at the expense of personal liberty. If you want proof, look no farther than Corey Stewart. He trampled over our county in an effort to catapult himself into the limelight as a warrior in the illegal immigration issue. Now our county will be synonymous with racism for at least a decade, maybe longer. Every other house is foreclosed. Neighbors eye each other with suspicion. All for the sake of one man’s political ambition.