What would your reaction be if this man, Davi Rodriguez drove up and down the main drag in the City of Manassas? How about past Coverstone 7-11?
Is his method better or worse than the course of action taken by Mr. Fernandez? You be the judge.
According to Channel 13 news out of Sacramento:
.
A story from CBS 13 in Sacramento, California featured one man ennobled by his passion for confronting day laborers with a trailer-mounted billboard saying “DEPORT THEM ALL.”
Davi Rodriguez drives the sign up and down the streets of Sacramento where day laborers wait for work, sometimes videotaping the reactions and uploading them to YouTube. Workers we talked to say they feel harassed, and they’re losing jobs
.
If you squint your eyes, click your heels together 3 times, you might just think you were back in Kansas.
Elena,
One final thought. You are an administrator of a blog that among other things, advocates helping illegal immigrants. Remember that half of the 9-11 terrorists had expired visas and almost all had lied on their visa applications making them illegal immigrants. Someday, after the next large scale terrorist attack on American soil, Greg and his fellow travelers will be the first to accuse you of aiding and abetting an insecure status quo that helps terrorists. They will savagely and gleefully call you an accessory to terrorism. Of course, the Gregs and the Duecasters are already saying these things about you. The difference is that, after the next large scale terrorist attack, some authorities might start seriously listening to them.
Remember that the black market in false documents created by illegal immigration allowed some of the 9-11 terrorists to acquire drivers licenses from DMVs in Northern Virginia. And we are situated very close geographically to the number one terrorist target in the world. I’m not trying to be flippant here. I’m trying to say you might consider being circumspect in what you say here or it may come back to haunt you.
House Resolution 1955, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorist Act, specifically targets the use of the internet to spread ideas. In other words, thought crimes.
It passed the House of Representatives 404 to 6.
Now it sits in the senate as S1959. And when it passes the Senate, the only way to stop it would be with George Bush’s veto…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJsovPRTEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
Leila, I guess it depends what country you are coming from. Here is an article that says going rate from Ecuador is 8-10K – http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb/04/world/fg-coyote4
Rick,
I am sure it depends, yes. But your post seemed to be commenting on what is commonplace, and you said 10-20K. If you are talking about the country at large, a majority of people crossing the *southern border* are coming from Mexico. If you are talking about the illegal immigrants in this area, the bulk crossing that way are from El Salvador and other Central American countries.
My problem with what you wrote is that it gave a very strange and false impression about the typical resources of the typical person who makes this land crossing.
There were several other points in your post to contest, but this one was just the oddest.
Ecuador is in South America…most immigrants paying a coyote to get here are from Mexico and Central America. Longer trip, higher rate. The going rate is now about $5K, up from $2K about 8-10 years ago and this is because the crossings are more difficult so it takes more time for them to get here. Leila, agree Rick’s post threw out a totally unbacked up number.
Twinad, 5K from Mexico? That even surprises me, given the articles I found. But no doubt it has gone up a lot.
About the 9500 Liberty sign. Something confuses me about it. Am I mistaken, or is the zoning violation basically because of some bolster he put on it? Ie. wasn’t there a way he could have erected the same thing as a banner or whatever expressing the same sentiments and not been in violation? Or couldn’t the same sentiments be painted on the side of an existing house?
Wouldn’t most people who are objecting to this sign object to it even if it were not a zoning violation? The zoning violation business is a way to attack it since obviously it is protected political speech. For the people who keep coming back to it being a zoning violation, would you be ok with it if the structure were changed but the text remained?
Leila,
I should have clarified…sorry. $5K from Central America, up from $2K several years ago. I don’t know how much from Mexico. These fee’s getting paid to criminal coyotes are one of the reasons comprehensive immigration reform is so desperately needed. For the same amount of money paid to coyotes, immigrants could get a flight here, get checked in through customs and put about $4K towards an entrance fee to the US. If we are admitting let’s say 500,000 immigrants a year at $4K each, that revenue stream alone would be $2,000,000,000.
Its important to realize that this money immigrants pay goes right into financing MS-13. Just like the unreality of prohibition bankrolled the rise of the mafia, so does our unrealistic immigration system bankroll the rise of MS-13 and directly contribute to its lethality by giving it the financial means to expand it’s empire and weaponry.
In this respect organizations like HSM are the greatest ally that MS-13 could ever hope to have. HSM people make sure that working class people can only come here illegally because they refuse to give a pathway to citizenship and they refuse to make visas easy to obtain. It’s a great niche market for MS-13, provide to them courtesy of HSM.
HSM is vainly struggling against the unconquerable law of supply and demand. They are trying to create an artificial economy, no less than the Bolsheviks tried to do in the Soviet Union, and they are meeting equally disastrous consequences. The free market regulates immigration as it should. Demand for labor changes every day. It goes up. It goes down. What we need to do is make it much easier for immigrant labor to come here. When it is easy to immigrate here for work, no one will be crossing the border illegally and so MS-13 will be financially crippled. Isn’t the crippling of MS-13 what HSM claims to have as one of its main objectives?
Leila, I think the sign as zoning violation is the latest mantra for those who lost at having it forcibly taken down last fall. Had it been on a banner it would have stood a better test as free speech and avoided the building code violations. However, I don’t know whether Manassas City had any prohibitions against banners in the residential part of the historic district (and there are the other zoning issues cited as well as the sign). Mr. F could have gotten an engineering report that clarified the sign’s ability to meet the building code (I think wind resistance may have been an issue that needed to be addressed) but he chose not to do so. I think he’s going for freedom of speech. Even if the City wins in court, the issue may not be immediately resolved. There may be an appeal process and then, additionally, the City has to consider its image if it has to send its employees in to forcibly remove the sign. Not an easy decision in my opinion. And one made harder by the “law is the law is the law” crowd which is ticked at the City for following the law.
Thanks for clarifying the video for me Mackie 🙂 and sharing your thoughts on my impending imprisonment! O.K. guys, I quite this blog now! Seriously, I do fear the next terrorist attack for multiple reasons, now you have added another one to the list.
Also, I concur with you assessment of free labor market and MS-13’s misuse of our immigration policy. We are inadvertantly feeding the snake.
Also, the Loudoun County Gang Response Intervention Team (GRIT) recommends that the public not use specific gang names too much, as it gives gangs a reputation that increases their membership. With the photos of tags and constant mentioning of one particular gang on the other site, I worry that this is an additional way people may be helping to increase gang activity.
Elana @ 23:50
Yes “La Raza” share a with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”. So do Celts, Africans, Asians, and Arabs. How far back do you want to go? DNA evidence indicates we all share a common heritage and destiny, the heritage is to a small group of people who came out of Africa, up to Kazakstan, and toward India, several times between ice ages. So What?
La Raza is today used to mean “the race” which “includes only certain people” and EXCLUDES all others who are not “the race”, and that only this group has some supreme destiny. Though its root word meaning may have meant “we are the cosmic people” as being something special, what about the rest of the “cosmic” people? I guess they are not “special” according to this group and your philosophy. This is just another hate group trying to claim it is better than everyone else in North and South America, and they should all “band together” as an ethnic group and politically fight for special laws and privileges just for themselves, and vote only their own “La Raza” people and race into public office just because they all belong to “La Raza”, THE cosmic people.
I smell supremacy and a hate group. It stinks pretty loud.
Twinade, Immigrants can already take a flight here for less than the price to come here illegally. It costs them the filing fees for a legal work permit, educational visa, or green card application, and air fare.
We are talking about the cost of “illegal” immigration, which only happens when people choose to be “illegal” and break our law, coming here ahead of others and without permission or invitation, they simply take what they want, and cause hundreds of widely documented problems (some with lethal consequrences) for the “legal” residents here.
Though most of you have mis-guided sympathy for them, I do not. They simply need to “wait” their turn.
To allow this “illegal” behavior to continue and not be punished is to invite even more “lawlessness” and even less desireable future consequences.
Michael,
You might want to read the following article, called “The Truth About NCLR: NCLR Answers Critics.” It quite nicely refutes your claims, and provides references. Please pay close attention to the sections in the point-by-point analysis about the translation of their name, and about solely Hispanic-serving programs. Where on this site did they say they are better than everyone else?
http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/
I suppose that is my “cheap shot” moonhowler, as are all other comments I use to counter most of you who post here from promoting your own form of ethnic hatred, unless of course you mean my cheap shot was challenging Mackie to provide some “facts” behind his trite 2 word statement twisting the words I said out of context (his usual approach when he can’t think of anything better or more truthful) that “No” we don’t need to protect our borbers and control our growth of “illegal” people, and Yes, we need to give everyone here amnesty and immediate documentation, as an “opinion’ that has no value unless it has some facts behind it, explaining why he believes this is a valid solution to a huge problem. I would hardly call “two” words a factual debate, he was “copping” out.
I have stated nothing in my posts that was not fully supported by the Constitution, the current law, and equality in individual rights for all. Most of you don’t like my posts because the constitution, the law and equality concepts don’t support your ethnic group and personal agenda’s for supremacy and powe through discrimmination.
Diversity Gal,
I had this same debate with Elena about the League of Women voters. Both of you think these groups don’t support hatred of others who don’t belong to their group, but they do. They have a significant power heirarchy, of people in their organizational structure who are ONLY members of these racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups, and think only in terms of suppporting just that “groups attributes and supremacy over other” and fight legal battles for that group’s political and economic advantage over others. You think they are supporting only “minority” injustices, but they are not. They are supporting minority hatred and minority supremacy. They are existing simply to create legislation that “favors” their ethnic group, and their “gender” or religion EXCLUSIVELY of others who exist in groups they point out as “the others”. Their rhetoric is aimed at targeting other groups that are not part of their own group (That’s why they have a “Group” aligned along racial, gender, religious, ethnic group lines of political power). They are no different in goals and hidden agenda’s than the NAACP, the ADL, and the KKK. All of these groups advocate for supremacy of their own group, and ethnic supremacy along ethnic lines of political power. They all support concepts that want law-makers to make laws just for them so they can racially balance their numbers to grow larger than all other groups, creating “advantage” using “quotas” in disproportion to their political voices, or in terms of democracy more votes and influence than they can get with ” one vote per person”. They all try to buy votes in the House and Senate, to align policy and political issues along lines of political power that benefit only their race, gender, religious or ethnic group.
This is simply supremacy politics and hate activity. I don’t need to visit their web site to read what they say about themselves, it is a public lie, a deceit, to hide behind, while their “leaders” think of creative ways to promote their own race in EXCLUSION of others and with hatred for others that don’t belong to their “group”.
I am listening to you and others who feel this way. I regularly visit sites whose messages I disagree with, and I often learn something. It’s not worth it to you to do the same? I hope that others won’t feel the need to NOT to learn, and may want to visit the NCLR site.
NCLR has many community service, health, and education initiatives. They work with schools for early childhood and secondary education programs. They work with AmericaCorps to increase volunteer service to communities. IN 2006, their homeownership program served 20% Caucasian and 12% African-American clients.
ADL has many educational services. They offer curriculum connections to schools. and anti-bullying/cyber bullying resources through their partnerships with the US Health Resources and Services Administration. They have programs that emphasize non-violent ways to handle conflict. In addition, they provide schools with information about lesson plans and materials that explore gender equality and raising awareness about people with disabilities.
NAACP conducts community health screenings and HIV/AIDS testing. They have a Back-to-School/Stay-in-School initiative.
What is the KKK doing to encourage community service, help community members in need, or work with public schools for positive change? All I could find on their site was this…their version of community activism was to find like-minded candidates to run for public office, and nothing more. Their version of education programming was an “easy to understand workbook” for teachers, currently in development, to “re-educate” them about “the daily terror many white kids feel when being surrounded by angry and violent Negroes.” OMGIH!!! I shudder at the thought of their re-educating teachers…the stuff of my nightmares…
Because of the afore-mentioned info, I CAN”T conclude that NCLR, ADL, and NAACP are in the same category as the KKK.
I’m sure most of you think I support the “crap” videos that Mackie posts from hate groups. I do not. In fact I agree with many things Mackie says that come from constitutional principals, I simply challenge him when he indicates how much he hates authority and the police and “respects” the anti-American militant hate groups coming from the other side of the world (I’m sure a result of his religious bias clouding his personal judgement) . I don’t like Gregs religious arguments for the same reason, and I challenge him when he does it.
I support Elena, when she focuses on world povery and sympathy for the poor, but not when she indicates that sympathy should include support for “illegal” and “unlawful” behavior, because she supports some “ethnic group”. That is when she steps over the line and I call her or any of you on this ethnic group political alignment crap.
Look I was a soldier, a good one fighting for your rights (with my life) for the freedom for you to have these debates and support your “individual” freedom, I saw it all, all the ethnic hatred, tthe ethnic group alignment, the religious group alignment, the root cause for war, the factions that rose in political parties along racial, gender, religious, and ethnic group lines of power and how that destroyed democracy and legal justice in those countries that are now at war.
I refuse to let these people, (including those of you who sympathize with them), destroy our country, our democracy and our concepts of individual rights” and power of the people to govern themselves, making just laws for all and enforcing them equally for all regardless of their race, gender, religion or ethnic group. I refuse to ignore or support lawlessness in any form and refuse to let people support “lawlessness and “illegal” behavior. These ideologies are the enemy of Democracy and the lovers of anarchy and autocracy.
If you don’t like my belief about this then fine. I have fought on foreign soil to defend my nation’s concept of “liberty, freedom and justice for all” (the key word being for ALL), and I will do it here on my own soil if necessary and called on by the “government” to do so. I will not do it in support of ANY racial, gender, religious or ethnic HATE GROUP, or political group aligned to promote racial, gender, religious or ethnic group privilege or hatred, that is what I saw is wrong with the rest of the world’s politics and people. I see those same people here, which I why I am challenging you, whether you like it or not.
I will explore the site, Diversity GAL, but I will find the same thing I found on the other sites people proudly tell me to explore in defense of their ethnic group ideology, that you are blind to because you support and likely (but possibly not) belong to this ethnic group. I will see the bias, and the legal issues and legal comments that support “La Raza” politics and legal activities. It is the same old crap on the NAACP, ADL, LWV, and KKK web sites. These are ALL hate groups aligned along ethnic, gender, racial, and religious lines of political power.
Michael,
I am an open-minded Caucasian:)
If you want a better world, stop thinking only about your race, gender, religious and ethnic group. and start thinking only about an equal standard of the law, and only about “people”, as individuals, NOT GROUPS. THIS IS the CORE CONCEPT in DEMOCRACY. Only when you can take this group think lexicon out of your politics, can you see the rest of the world as the same as you are when you look at them as “individuals”. Once you can do this, you have to “cleave”, unlawful and “illegal” behavior, from legal behavior and punish “individuals for the personal “choices” they make. If you join and think politically as a racial, gender, religious or ethnic group “pack”, you will eventualy be in conflict and at war with those you “exclude”, just like the rest of the people in the world and their leaders who politically act this way.
Also, Michael, I want to thank you for fighting for my rights and freedoms. I really do enjoy coming here to debate the issues, and I will continue to enjoy that freedom by expressing my opinion, as well. The argument can be made that the United States was founded by Patriots in the spirit of positive change and challenging authority. Its history is filled with positive changes made by those who dared to speak up or act when they saw oppression or discrimination. I plan to carry on that tradition. Again, I appreciate this right, and the fact that your service as well as that of others has helped to protect it.
Good for you Diversity Gal, I do not care what ethnicity you are. That is why I do not make these assumptions, except to wonder why people politcially align with racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups, rather than justly remove these concepts entirely from their political alignment and thinking process, and simply look at the behavior as “illegal” and “legal” and whether it is aligned along non-racial, non-gender, non-religious, and non-ethnic group political activities for the benefit of ALL individuals the same. I call ANY political group that cannot do this a HATE group, because these “groups” are the root cause of war in every country I ever went to.
Thank You, and yes the country needs Patriots with just causes. Fighting hate groups and political alignment along lines of racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of political power to prevent the destruction of Democracy and growth of “factions” that will destroy it, is one of those just causes. I hope you will join me in this effort.
Michael, I’m still under the impression that we have freedom of assembly…with whatever group we choose (although the FBI might be interested in some groups as it may be interested in some individuals). I’m unwilling to accept your dictates as what consistutes a hate group. My spouse also is a veteran and luckily he’s more open-minded. He espouses none of this white male my-way-or-the-highway-crapola. You’ve shown a total lack of ability to analyze why people of different ethnicities, genders, or races might advocate for their rights.
There is no reason why these “groups” can’t simply represent “people”, ALL People instead of their race, gender, religion and ethnic group. They can focus simply on education, votes, children, finances, community projects, and crime, supporting law enforcement and Laws for the betterment of ALL people, not just their race, gender, religion or ethnic political group. Why do they choose to not do this? Because their leaders and the people who support them are HATE activists that only want to support these “political” activities for the benefit of the race, gender, religion, or ethnic group in the title and mission statement of the HATE Group organization they belong to.
They are not fooling me, I saw these same hate groups in the rest of the world, in the later stages of their political success. I refuse to let it happen here.
SA The reason there is no “white european race card” is because there is no white european race. There is no hispanic race either. According to anthropologists the world is comprised of fusions of three races: caucasoid, mongoloid, and africanoid. The largest population of the caucasoid race exists in the country of India. The caucasoid race is also prevalent in Europe, Northern Africa, the Middle East, Australia, and North and South America. One can have brown skin and still be considered a part of the Caucasoid race. Some antropologists consider american indians (on both continents) to be a part of the caucasoid race, while other consider them to be a fusion of mongoloid and caucasoid who found there way here via the Bering Straight thousands upon thousands of years ago. No one knows for sure. The majority of the people today from Mexico and South America are considered to be mestizo, a mixture of indigeneous population and European and some African. I know that recently many immigrants have come to refer to themselves as “Native Americans” to the extent that they are descended from the indigenous cultures that existed in their countries of orgin, but they are also descendants of white Europeans as well. When I studied my own geneaology I remember asking my mom jokingly what a fusion of German, Hungarian, Danish, Irish, and Native American made me. Her response: “A typical American mutt.”
Yes, you can associate with whatever group you want, as does association with any other group in the world that eventually comes to political power. Hateful people are always allowed by law to associate with other hateful people. That is why these hate groups are so popular. That does not mean I have to let them act on their own lawless belief systems and destroy my country or the law made in the best interests of ALL people by a Democratic majority vote. I can cleave these groups by their own lawless behavior in how they impact my community, my peace, my welfare and my legal system. That is why I only punish or fight people people based on “illegal” and “legal” behavior. But I can still tell you that the root cause of war, is political factions aligned along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of political power. If we had other alignments, legally based only on non-racial, non-gender, non-religious, and non-ethnic group lines of political power, we would only have to fight “criminal” groups that also have the freedom to associate with other “criminals” from taking over the governmemt of the people, by the people The discrimminator of good and bad with these groups is always the same too, the Standard of Law and majority vote.
“I refuse to let it happen here.”
How do you propose doing that?
Michael,
I only announced my race because you claimed that I was likely a member of a group that was a focus of NCLR or NAACP.
As for the thought that we should just erase the concept of group membership, I think we have to agree to disagree. Yes, we are individuals, but a sense of belonging is in our nature. So many things factor into a person’s identity, some of them being family, current environment, cultural traditions, language religion, ethnic heritage, experience, friendships, etc. To ask people to do away with some of these vital portions of identity seems ridiculous to me.
Most of my family has roots in the British Isles (Scotland, England, Ireland). When my family traveled there, my brother purchased a huge British flag and placed it above his bed. I have a family tartan scarf, and a pin from Scotland, and once applied for a St. Andrew’s Society scholarship for Scottish Americans. A lot of my American friends who had grandparents or great-parents from Ireland flash their Irish heritage all the time, especially around St. Patrick’s Day. I don’t think any of us has ever been accused of divided loyalty, or hate against other groups of people. I don’t know…maybe you would.
I do not feel threatened when people organize to help others with a similar identity, as well as try to make their communities a better place by partnering with schools and discouraging discrimination. When I listen to what these groups (NAACP, NCLR, ADL) have to say, I just don’t hear the hate in their message that you seem to hear.
To quote Schoolhouse Rock…”How great to be an American and something else as well.”
The 9-11 incident was a result of a politically aligned “hate group”, that was able to operate in the manner they did , becauase no-one challenged the “legality” of what they were doing as a hate group, funded by other hate groups. No one check their “legal” right to be here. They have many political and funding sources in these various ethnic, gender, religious and ethnic group aligned organizations as “plants” who funnel funding from such groups in the US to their corrupt leaders. What gave them the power to operate was their “community service facade” and the belief by others that they did no harm becauase they were simply supporting “ethnic” or “religious” injustice. That does not mean everyone was doing this in these groups, but because it was a group aligned the way it was, along racial, gender, religious and ethnic lines of political power, a “criminal” element could operate behind a “legal” facade.
Could they have been just as effective if they belonged to the “Childrens Educational Fund of America (CEFA)? The League of Voters (LOV), the National Association for the Advancement of People (NAAP), the National Council of People (NCP)? Perhaps, but I believe such “group” political alignments attract more individuals primarily concerned about children, and ALL people than just the education of the children, or political welfare of members who belonged to the same organizations the 9-11 terrorists did, and would more likely identify their illegal activities to law enforcement.
Diversity Gal I did not claim any such thing, re-read my post. “that you are blind to because you support and likely (but possibly not) belong to this ethnic group.” My caveat, clearly identifies the possibility that you are doing this for some other reason. This is how half truths become whole truths by twisting words on this blog. I call you on it.
We can agree to disagree, However I believe from world experience I am right that the root cause of the problem we have with racial-hatred, gender-hatred, religious-hatred and ethnic-hatred, is the very fact that we claim we have a legal right to join such groups and then advocate politically in these groups to gain political advantage over any other group we “exclude”. We promote diversity over “integration”. We promote “exclusion over “inclusion”. Then I’m sure people will come up with another political “word” to promote racial balancing and quotas, over individual fairness and standard of equal law. We saw this in the 60’s and we will see it again as long as this political trend continues, until we have another civil rights war, only this time along some other HATE group boundary that will be the target, and that will be whichever “Group” is in political power and put their own “ethnic, gender, religious, racial HATE advocates into political offices throughout the nation.
Michael, you’re banging your head on the wall if you honestly believe that advocacy groups are going to go away. If you look at the composition of Congress, our state legislature or the city councils or BOCS, you see that they absolutely don’t reflect their populations. It seems to me more, not less, advocacy is in order. Afterall, these are the people in position to write our laws. And they come to their jobs with gender preferences, economic advantage in many cases, particular cultural backgrounds, particular educational backgrounds, particular religious beliefs – all ingrained and part of who they are.
It was the very fact “the people” could join hate groups along racial, gender, religious and ethnic group lines of power and write hate laws that benefited only their own ethnic group, that was the root cause of the American Civil War (most say it was simply over economics but that is not the entire truth) and the civil rights conflicts of the 50s and 60s that also almost became a war between two races. Those same racial, gender, religious and, ethnic political alignments and conditions are repeated in Bosnia, Niger, Darfur, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Columbia, Peru, Mexico, El Salvador, Ireland, Wales, China, Afganistan and now here in the US again.
I’m not banging my head cbvbl, I know they aren’t going to go away, people will align politically no matter what, I’m just saying we should increasingly make it more difficult, and eventually illegal to align along 4 political group paths (race, gender, religion and ethnic group), concepts already prohibited in some interpretations of the constitution and 14th admendments, but ignored or even disdained by people like you. I believe we should simply let people align along Democratic and Republican lines of power and political advocacy or some PAC group that only aligns along non-gender, non-racial, non-religious and non-ethnic group politcal lines. The world will be much less at war if we do. I think that is a small price to pay for world peace and the fair and equal treatement of all “individuals”. DEMOCRACY is founded on such a concept, that all men are created equal, they don’t have to break into gender, racial, religious, and ethnic political groups to feel “EQUAL” and powerless if they do not.
Those types of conflicts have always been around and will continue to happen. It apparently is one of the more vile traits of human nature. Every advocacy group does not become genocidal though some have the potential and others do become so.
Are you proposing that money should talk rather than gender, race, ethnicity?
I you feel people SHOULD break into gender, racial, religious and ethnic political groups to advocate only for their group’s special interests in “exclusion” of all others, then we will have the same problems the rest of the world already has, we HAD, and WILL HAVE again, if it is not stopped before it happens again.
You’re assuming that groups advocate for “special privileges” and not merely their share of the pie.
Yes, money can then be attacked as either “criminal” money or “non-criminal” money based on what the “individuals” and companies with that money do with it. If they buy votes, they can be attacked by the Equal Standard of LAW, again by majority vote of the people. That is why the Greeks even invented DEMOCRACY, they knew, as did John Adams in framing the US Constitution, feared and knew that Political factions, would rise along lines on power based on wealth, and would take the power away from the people. The law of “one person, one vote” prevents this more than any other political concept in the world. They just could not envision that “ethnic, racial, gender and religious groups factions raising funding and legal armies, could ALSO be factional threats to DEMOCRACY, but they at least anticipated the “tyranny of the religous” group, even if they did not conceptually grasp the “tyranny of the racial, gender and ethnic group” funded by political action committees and hate groups to buy votes.
Michael,
Didn’t I say that you said “likely?” What is there to call me on? Did I give you the impression that I am twisting your words, and have some sort of malicious purpose? I don’t understand.
Money has far more potential to corrupt or buy our system than does the NAACP, the League of Women Voters, or any other group you so disdain. For one thing, probably the most basic thing, it buys exposure.
“Groups” in history never stop at neutral. At first they want the same “pie” often in disproportion to their numbers because they are a “minority”, so they advocate for special laws that first remove any unfairness in the Standard of Law (a good thing), then once they have this, they advocate for special favors under the law (a bad thing), to give them financial, numerical, educational and social advantage, in disproportion to their numbers, and only because of their ethnic, gender, religious, and ethnic group status, not because of their skill, ability, performance, and talent or other non-gender, ethnic, religiosu group attributes. IF they can get political advantage, they then put thier “own” hate activist leaders into power, they then make new laws in favor of their group only and “exclusive” to all other groups they can malign and Hate. This is what happened in NIGER and Somalia recently. This is how the really BAD people of the world have always been put into political power, and once in power have always oppressed others not of their same race, gender, religious or ethnic group. The US has no frame of reference for this other than the civil rights problem, which we rectified with EQUAL LAW, so we have no idea how it works to create ethnic and class wars of oppression in other countries of the world. I have seen it and I do not intend to let it happen here. I advocate we stop at NEUTRAL, not equal numbers (that is never possible ever), but EQUAL law. No advantage or disadvantage for anyone.
It is individual against indivudual ability, talent, skill and ethics. It is NOT GROUP against GROUP. “Indivdual” and equitable law enforcement with one person one vote democracy, is a more peaceful and fair world to live in. The sins of the child do not pay for the sins of the father. Equal law enforced equally for all prevents any furthur oppression and unfairness on anyone. If you do not have this and enforce “law” you will end up every time with oppression by some group against another “unjustly” purely for their own group’s personal and financial gain, while hurting and discrimminating against everyone else “excluded” politically from their group.
Corruption and injustice always occurs in “degrees”. Murder is always worse than “theft”, but you don’t ignore theft simply because you think murder is worse.
I go after hate groups and people who support hate groups and hate advocate activity wherever they are, whether they are murder’s or just thieves. They are both breaking the law and hurting the freedom and well being of “individuals” protected by this law.
It’s a peaceful and fair world in your view because white males already have the entrenched advantages. People may be making more progress because of their individual skills but that hasn’t always been the case. I don’t know your age, but I’m old enough to remember Virginia’s gender-segregated colleges and the paucity of majors available to those of us who were tax-paying females. When I married after living continually in Virginia for five years, my college tried to charge me out-of-state tuition because my husband claimed residency in another state before leaving the military. In the state where I grew up, the public school system was segregated by race until I was a Senior in high school. All these disadvantages don’t disappear with the stroke of a pen though many have abated. Although my family includes people with Hispanic backgrounds and mixed races, I’m not ready to say all is equal, all is fair, all is balanced. It’s not.
If you do not understand the Supreme Court Ruling “equal opportunity but not equal outcomes” is the fair, NEUTRAL and just law of the land, then you will never get what I am trying to tell you is the root cause of war, in every other nation in the world at war, except those overcome purely by a criminal element, it is an alignment and changing of the standard of law, by groups aligned along racial, gender, religious and ethnic political lines of power to gain supremacy and advantage for themselves “exclusive” of all others not a member of their group.
You are simply saying you want to perpetuate the unlawfullness of the past, as if they are the sins of the present. Do you honestly believe that you as an “individual” deserve more than I do as an “individual” because of what happened in the past, and simply because of your race, gender, religious or ethic group? You do not understand Democracy, the Supreme Court, the law or America.
What makes you think you deserve any more than I do? It is not MY group against your group, it is you against me, I am an individual, you are an individual, we are under the same law, why do you deserve any different treatment under the law than I do? If you treat me that way as an individual you are discrimminating against me. If I can prove you are claiming this “advantage” simply because of your race, gender, religious or ethnic groups status and not your ability, talent, skill or performance, I will sue you in court for discrimmnation and I will win. Justice will be done individual by individual, not group by group, that is where your thinking is flawed.
We’re just going to disagree. You appear to think that the groups aligned along race, gender, ethnic, and religious lines are the root cause of war and that the law is always neutral. And I think that because the law truly isn’t interpreted equally and – in many cases is not neutral – there will be a need for those advocacy groups. The interpretation of the law may be their reason to rebel. (And before you get in a panic, that rebellion can be as simple as sitting at a lunch counter.)
I suppose I could just continue to beat this dead horse, but I’ll wait awhile and let it all sink in. In the end you will discover that what I say is true and just and fair for everyone the same and that “lawlessness” is not an option in a DEMOCRACY.
Time for me to move on, While I’m gone rationalize your ethnic, gender, religious, racial-centric beliefs any way you want, it will not make them right.
Ha ha. I’m waiting to see if you change your tune when there are no white kids at Thomas Jefferson High School because they can’t make the cut academically.