The Manassas Journal Messenger reports on the Friday night screening of the latest version of the 9500 Liberty screening.
According to the article,
The reaction to the film ran the gamut, after its showing Friday night at Trinity Episcopal Church in Manassas.
Chris Pannell, who left Help Save Manassas this spring, praised the video. Woodbridge Workers Committee Nancy Lyall enjoyed the film, but expressed her outrage at the resolution.
City Councilman Jonathan Way said the presentation was interesting but that he learned nothing new.
“It was far less contentious and argumentative than I thought it might have been,” Way said.
Conversely, Help Save Manassas member Maureen Wood said the video was one-sided, made Prince William County Board of Supervisors Chairman Corey A. Stewart look like a fool and the filmmakers and she would never “see eye to eye on this issue.”
Mackie, I think that immigrants and people of color SHOULD feel safe to report crimes. But one of the ways in which Corey Stewart / F.A.I.R. / Greg Letiecq talking points hurt the county terribly is that they have succeeded in creating a climate of fear and intimidation, such that any crime statistics we look at in PWC during this period are questionable since 20 percent or more of out population is afraid of the Police.
The reason why I so often convey that the Resolution has made us LESS safe as a county is that those crimes that involve immigrant communities as either victims OR perpetrators are much harder to solve now that we have less witnesses willing to come forward and no victims willing to file charges.
This “frighten and intimidate the immigrants as much as possible in order to look tough” strategy backfires on the community in another way: if immigrants and people of color do not feel they can trust the police, they turn to the local gangs for protection and to settle disputes. This strengthens the hand of criminal gangs, because now the immigrant community has YET ANOTHER REASON not to report or bear witness to crimes.
This has happened in every community where there are poor people, every community where there are ethnic people, and every community where there are immigrants since the birth of our nation. Men and women who make it their business to study law enforcement know that community policing is a vital part of public safety whenever there is a multi-ethnic populace.
Unfortunately, our Immigration Resolution was written by Robert “Disaster” Duecaster, Gospel Greg Leteicq, and that odd-ball racist from F.A.I.R. Mike Hethmon, all of whom have not yet come to terms with the modern day reality of multi-ethnic communities, and yet to do their homework about the best practices that go with policing in such communities.
Red Dawn,
This is how it works.
The police interrogate the child about their parents’ status. The terrorized child divulges that their parents are undocumented. This means nothing in court.
Then the police corner the parents and ask them about their status. At first, the parents try not to answer, then they say yes they are documented. Then the police lower the hammer and say their child confessed otherwise. Terrified and eager to please, the immigrants admit they are undocumented even though you should never admit anything to the police under any circumstances without a lawyer present.
They are now guilty of lying to the police. Their credibility in court is now badly damaged. They might even be charged with obstructing justice. The police now have them by the short hairs.
Here’s some good advice from a lawyer about how the police interrogate people:
http://www.bobbattlelaw.com/library/games-detectives-play.cfm
And in the meantime, Gospel Greg and cohorts focus on the gang graffiti and get pi$$y when it’s not cleaned up lickety-split, and fail to address the cause of gang involvement in the first place. Just as the mafia settled scores for marginalized people, the local gangs may be drawn into the same role. It’s better for immigrant victims to be able to trust the police. (And Mackie, as an FBI agent’s daughter, I know there are good and bad cops but I believe most of them in PWC fall into the good category.)
Mackie,
I am going to be just plain old blunt. You aren’t convincing anyone of your agenda. I am sorry, I don’t feel the way you do. And, even if I did, I wouldn’t tell you here. I might discuss it with you on anther blog, or in email, but not here.
We are attempting to work with police and other branches of county government to fix what we see as a wrong. I believe your personal agenda here is counter-productive to that goal.
You may feel about law enforcement as you wish. But this group’s goals are not compatible with the idea that law enforcement is a bad thing. You have lots of good ideas. This one just doesn’t belong in this venue.
I say this not to quarrel but to redirect the direction of this thread.
Ok, it is easy to understand why Prince William County residents often
want to upgrade themselves by pretending to be from the City of Manassas,
but this has gone far enough.
– The Bobbitt’s were county residents and the infamous deed was done
in the county — the reattachment and the judicial process took place
in the city – but what jurisdiction got the media whack? PWC trash act up
and Manassas gets a black eye.
– A dozen years later a county resident starts a controversial group, but
does he call it Help Save Prince William? Of course not.
– Mr. Fernandez’s main focus is PWC’s resolution and problems with Corey
Stewart — where does he put up an ugly hateful sign? In Old Town Manassas and the
only person named on it is a former mayor of Manassas.
– Which leads some opportunistic “film makers” to seize this as a breakthough
to bigger things by focusing on a city address – 9500 Liberty St. Of course,
they, Fernandez and most of the folks involved with the various blog wars over
this are PWC residents.
– How about the residents of the Brentsville, Gainesville, Nebasco, and Dogpatch
Districts, etc. keep their mess AT HOME IN PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY!
The City of Manassas is tired of being “tagged” by your BS.
Moon-howler,
I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything really. I welcome it when people disagree with me. Especially when they disagree very passionately.
I applaud your attempts to work with the police. I wish you luck.
No Mackie, you do not welcome it when people disagree. Read your last thread, you complained when I disagreed with you.
And you once again did not answer Chris’s question. Your typical behavior.
If you have an exact incident that occurred in Prince William County where the childern were asked to reveal the immigration status of their parents, then make a complaint. Call 703-792-7998 – Internal Affairs office for the PWCDP. That is not part of their policy. The Police Department Immigration policy is on the website – read it for yourself.
Put up or shut up.
“If you have as much influence as you say, and you are put in this position so often, I would think it would be a very effective and humane thing to do.”
Emma,
Not sure I stated that I have any influence. If I implied that I did, I don’t know if that’s really accurate. I have only been sought out on a couple of occassions and I ALWAYS say go to the police. I just don’t want anybody seeking me out for this but how can I refuse?
Lucky Ducky,
Please calm down. Your posts have quickly taken on a shrill and accusatory tone.
Alanna,
What about the human rights lawyer, Lisa Johnson-Firth. Doesn’t she give advice for free in these cases?
#7. I believe John Stirrup is very serious about the ‘Immigration Resolution’. He has made comments about moving from Arlington County because of the demographic change there and now he sees the same happening in PWC.
Apparently, John believes the Buchanan’s ‘Post America’ mentality whereby we are ceasing to be Americans because of Immigration. And, yes, it’s immigration and not just illegal immigration.
So, while Corey seems to be interested in the political possibilities of such a platform, John, on the other hand, has a true belief in the anti-immigrant platform. His silence is deafening but it’s probably best otherwise everyone would realize his radical ideology.
if it were illegal to be stupid alanna and elena would be in prison, fluffing lucky ducks feathers and playing with moons howler.
Elvis,
Good play on monikers, I’ll give you that BUT I would debate your argument by saying perhaps Alanna and Elena are SMART because they don’t have to go to prison to play with them in freedom? 😉
Seriously, why do you have to be mean?
Emma,
I don’t feel you are being fair to Alanna or understand her unique position. And she is under no obligation to share with us.
The purpose of this blog was to provide a voice to those who had been cut out of discussion on the dark screen. This blog has grown far more than ever expected and now seems to be a sounding board for local events as they pertain to this immigration Resolution and other related topics.
If it educates while doing what is stated in the above paragraph, good. However, this blog cannot be expected to take the place of human contact needed when families are in severe distress because of being victims of crime.
Of course I like my conspiracy theories, you don’ think…nah, couldn’t be true…..Elvis liked to rock in jail? 🙂 just in fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzV_0l5ILI
Everyone is missing an important point of “reality”. An an important point why we need our community leaders to act and take responsibility for the better protection of its citizens.
Crime occurs in Manassas City, but at what changes in the type of crimes, from those of the past? Simply go to the web site for the city and closely study what kind of crime it is, and tell me the citizens in Manassas are safe from it.
I do not know why, but a disporportionate number of the criminals reported come from very specific ethnic groups. It is my opinion it is because these “individuals” in significant numbers in our city and county “lack ethics”. We need to fight this crime and not support it, as some of you on this blog appear to be doing.
http://www.manassascity.org/Archive.asp?AMID=30
Here is a reason for why we need to fight “illegal” immigration.
The “illegal” aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s
two and a half times that of non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children, as they become members of gangs associated with “illegal” alien growth are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
Verify at:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt01.html
Just a quick note friends. I just drove by the Manassas City Hall (HSM meeting tonight). There were 15 cars in the parking lot. It appears that we should change the name from “The Order of the Red Circle” to “The Order of the Red Spot.”
30 percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt01.html
Any IDIOT can see if we prevent “illegal” immigration in our communities, 30 percent less crime will be perpetrated on innocent victims of crime, if we simply remove them and prevent “illegal” immigration. 30 percent of our innocent people will be saved from the support for lawlessness and crime that many of you on this blog are supporting with anarchy and promotion of “lawless behavior” and mis-guided ETHICS.
Ivan,
Thanks for the chuckle! I wondered how many of the heralded 2,000 members would be there! Let’s see, one car for Greg, one for Maureen, and one for Rick Bentley. That means 12 other people in Manassas besides them were there! Stirrup and Stewart, you better listen up to that “majority” of your constituents!
Michael,
I get your concern with the crime rates. However, just because they have a surname does not mean that there is a a group to be chastised, which leads to racial profiling. I know in the past when I posted such instances, I was guilty myself. ( I was more focused on the id theft cases, to tell you the truth)
Sure anyone can find a pattern BUT you have to look at the common denominator and that would be a huge increase of surnames in this area? It seems to me that it is EASIER to zero in on a Hispanic ( middle eastern, Asian) name than one of a white or black?
Ivan, and it’s probably safe to assume a couple cars belong to people eating in the local restaurants or shopping instead of swearing allegiance to the red circle (er…spot).
Twinad,
There is a thing called car polling in these tough economic gas crunching times…gash….LOL
🙂
Twinad,
There is a thing called car pooling in these tough economic gas crunching times…gash….LOL
🙂
Opps…sorry for the double post..I noticed I spelled pooling wrong first time and tried to retrieve it back 🙁 screw it, I would have to do that for everything I post 🙂
If you do nothing, you are just as much to blame for the collapse of the community and the increase in community problems caused by “illegal” immigration as the criminals and lawbreakers themselves.
If you fight those who fight “illegal” immigration, you will become the lowest of the low, in the hierarchy of the “golden rule”.
Crime and Corruption are the real community problems Annabel and Eric should be shooting in their films. They are actually contributing to the downfall of the community by supporting lawlessness and people who support lawlessness and anarchy.
I hope someday soon another film team attacks them for “MISSING ENTIRELY” the most relevant and crtitical issues caused by “illegal immigration”, that are the crime and corruption and rise to power of people in radical political groups, gangs, corrupt policemen and corrupt politicians, who will FAVOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION BECAUSE of the benefits to crime and corruption ILLEGAL immigration brings.
And how many really active posters are there on this blog? Not much more than 15 probably. So the numbers of really active HSM members to numbers of really active posters on this blog are roughly the same. Both of those numbers don’t mean much. There’s probably a lot more numbers on each side that aren’t being as vocal or as active on this issue.
Red Dawn, I am very careful NOT to zero in on surnames (AND I did not although you assumed I did), but most of the reports actually do zero in on race and ethnic groups, and although I specifically state very clearly that I believe that crimes are entirely the fault of the INDIVIDUALS, not their ethnic group, I can’t help but wonder why the distribution of ETHICS is so skewed? It is my position and opinion that the people who will commit “illegal” immigration, regardless of race, gender, religion or ethnicity, are also the types of people with personal ethics low enough to also significantly commit other crimes. This is why we need to be so concerned about them if we are going to solve our community crime problems effectively, and remove all “illegal” immigrants.
It is for this reason I ONLY focus on those individuals who are “illegal” immigrants and not “legal” immigrants. There is not enough data in the police report to make a legal, vs illegal, judgement call, but their is enough data to question why so many people have such low ethics. I choose to claim it is because a significant number of them are likely “illegal” immigrants, as proven by my previous post with reference from CNN.
Michael,
“If you fight those who fight “illegal” immigration, you will become the lowest of the low, in the hierarchy of the “golden rule” ”
It is not a tug of war. There are other ideas/middle ground.
“I hope someday soon another film team attacks them for “MISSING ENTIRELY” the most relevant and crtitical issues caused by “illegal immigration”, that are the crime and corruption and rise to power of people in radical political groups, gangs, corrupt policemen and corrupt politicians, who will FAVOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION BECAUSE of the benefits to crime and corruption ILLEGAL immigration brings.”
Exactly my point and feel that you contradicted yourself.
WHO decides what is RADICAL?
And thank you for short postings so I can keep up 🙂
Anon,
Speak for yourself…there are far more than 15…as far as I know, you were the one that had the multiple names and were outed for doing so!
So the Red Circle is turning into the Red Spot, but then upon closer lock, Spot might be to generous. “Order of the Red Speck.” I like the sound of that.
As always, don’t discredit my “ethics” by claiming I said something I did not say, or assuming something I did not “explicitly” convey. I am very concerned about walking and seeking the “morally just” position, that DOES NOT MAKE this issue one of race, gender, religion, or ethnic group, but one concerned entirely about “illegal” and “legal” behavior, accountable to the ETHICS of individuals. If more of you did this, you would be making the right choices before you open your mouths to support lawbreakers and anarchy over democracy and lawfulness.
All of you wuold suddenly find yourselves with a more ETHICAL position, to stop a significant community problem.
Anon, but no one on this blog is claiming a membership of 2000 people. And I don’t remember anyone actively going to fairs or Old Town festivities trying to recruit anyone.
OK Censored, you make a good point.
Radical: political orientation which favors fundamental, drastic, revolutionary changes in society, literally meaning “changes at the roots”.
Conservatives frequently used the term “radical” as a general-purpose pejorative
Words and phrases are pejorative if they imply disapproval or contempt. The adjective pejorative is synonymous with derogatory, derisive, dyslogistic, and contemptuous. When used as a noun, pejorative means “a belittling or disparaging word or expression”.
Michael,
I am TRYING hard to understand you and I do see common ground, OTHERWISE, I would not be exchanging back and forth with you.
Help me understand by YOU understanding That I did not put words in your mouth.
I RESPONDED back with my opinion of what you threw out.
I do not support lawbreaking, do I break the law, sure ( aware or unaware)…anyone that says they don’t in someway or form is full of shit.
The other night you wanted me to believe that my government has my best interest and I should trust them for everything that they do including The Patriot Act. ( no words in your mouth, MY opinion) You tried to even comfort me and I felt it BUT then you mention above:
“crime and corruption and rise to power of people in radical political groups, gangs, corrupt policemen and corrupt politicians, who will FAVOR”…fill in the blanks….( my words which lead to MY questioning of WHO decides WHO is corrupt/ radical, etc?
I much prefer ethical people over radical people, that many on this blog seem to care little about, preferring lawlessnes and anarchy over democracy and lawfullness.
Ethics is a major branch of philosophy, encompassing right conduct and good life. It is significantly broader than the common conception of analyzing right and wrong. A central aspect of ethics is “the good life”, the life worth living or life that is simply not satisfying, which is held by many philosophers to be more important than moral conduct.
Until legislation or state apparatus enforces a moral order that addresses the causes of resistance these issues will remain in the ethical realm. For example, should animal experimentation become illegal in a society, it will no longer be an ethical issue. Likewise one hundred and fifty hundred years ago, not having a black slave in America may have been an ethical choice. This later issue has been absorbed into the fabric of a more utilitarian social order and is no longer an ethical issue but does of course constitute a moral concern. Ethics are exercised by those who possess no power and those who support them, through personal resistance.
I know you are Red Dawn, it is others, not you who seem to be the most clueless about law and lawlessness, immorality and morality, ethics and lack of ethics in our society, and the effect the bad side of each has on the quality of life for all of us. It is this desire for quality of life we have formed LAW, to deal with those individuals who have no morals, no ethics and through lawbreaking would harm us all with their lawlessnes and support for lawlessness.
The LAW decides Red Dawn, to protect all of us from those who would break it. That is why support for lawlessnes and anarchy is so immoral.
Alanna,
Thanks Alanna. I thought that was very well put. I am in complete agreement. So much attention has been focused upon Corey but people like Stirrup are heart and soul in lockstep with organizations like FAIR.
Corey just wants votes. But Stirrup wants results.
Micahel,
“For example, should animal experimentation become illegal in a society, it will no longer be an ethical issue.”
FIRST, I am such an animal lover ( STILL paying on bills for my baby:) )
WHO gets to decide what is moral and ethical?
Michael,
( I feel we are doing it again…crossing in posts…lol)
Anyway, speaking of ethic and law,what about the law that protects the patients right such as a living will? Without that signed a patient is subject to the law and the doctors JOB is to keep the patient alive OVER a piece of paper that may not have been filled out in time due to an accident……another spins, I am aware BUT who decides what is right?
Ivan, how can you tell how many cars were parked at Manassas City Hall just by “driving by?” You would have had to drive into the lot to see that. Nothing better to do?
Ivan – you thought that was the REAL meeting? That was just the public front.
The real meeting took place in an underground bunker and was attended by the power brokers of local politics. We all wore masks, “Eyes Wide Shut” style, and a secret password was required for entry past the armed guards.
If what Mackie and Alanna say about Corey and John S is true, then what we have is a man who is basically a nice guy but who would support any measure deemed popular so he can be elected.
On the other hand, we have a man who we think truly believes in his heart he is doing the right thing, even though we find his efforts morally questionable.
Are there good guys and bad guys in this scenario? And if so, who is the good guy? Who is the bad guy? If no good buy, then who is the better of the bad guys?
Rick, I believe I saw a secret hand-shake. 😉
Was there human sacrifice, Rick?
Michael,
It’s the moral equivalent of a starving person stealing a loaf of bread, I guarantee you’d have done the same thing if you’d had been born south of the border.
Let me just give you an example, Cubans that don’t make land are illegal and sent back, if they make land then they are legal. Tell me, does anything in the person’s character change when his foot dries? The same could be said for the millions who have had their status changed, did they somehow instantaneously become more ethical once their status changed?
Moon-howler,
“Are there good guys and bad guys in this scenario? And if so, who is the good guy? Who is the bad guy? If no good buy, then who is the better of the bad guys?”
LOL, there is always a market and buyer for everything. When in doubt put it on Ebay, I am sure someone will buy it, like the grilled cheese sandwich 😉
Emma,
“Was there human sacrifice, Rick?”
Or did the new birth start with opening a casket? ( Skull & Bones 😉 )