The Manassas Journal Messenger reports on the Friday night screening of the latest version of the 9500 Liberty screening.

According to the article,

The reaction to the film ran the gamut, after its showing Friday night at Trinity Episcopal Church in Manassas.

Chris Pannell, who left Help Save Manassas this spring, praised the video. Woodbridge Workers Committee Nancy Lyall enjoyed the film, but expressed her outrage at the resolution.

City Councilman Jonathan Way said the presentation was interesting but that he learned nothing new.

“It was far less contentious and argumentative than I thought it might have been,” Way said.

Conversely, Help Save Manassas member Maureen Wood said the video was one-sided, made Prince William County Board of Supervisors Chairman Corey A. Stewart look like a fool and the filmmakers and she would never “see eye to eye on this issue.”

209 Thoughts to “MJM: Liberty Video Screening Draws Mixed Reviews”

  1. Emma

    Speaking of strange rituals, when is the next “save the economy” party?

  2. Moon-howler

    Emma, that is still under discussion. Many people are out of town on vacation right now. Can we count on you to attend?

  3. Rick Bentley, I’m sorry to be the one to point this out to you, but the people posting above calling Help Save Manassas “The Order of the Red Speck” were not expressing fear that the membership list might be filled with “power-brokers.” In a word, they were gloating. Gloating, and also ridiculing Help Save Manassas for lacking power, and lacking membership in the “Real And Actual People” department.

    I know you want to join the fun. But since you so grossly misread the point of the sarcasm above, here is a an example on how to respond to a joke you actually get:
    “Ivan, you thought that was the REAL meeting? That was just the public front. The real meeting took place in Gospel Greg’s basement, and the planning took place all in his head. I arrived an hour late but was the first name on the sign-up sheet. Gospel Greg was pacing the room, mumbling to himself, something about Chief Deane answering to no one.

    I sat down and watched as his slippered feet pushed the dust in piles on either side of the room. Suddenly, he lifted his finger in the air as if an idea had struck, and raced to his computer to type down yet another post on AntiBvbl. It lasted several paragraphs. and another five minutes passed before he noticed me.

    “Oh, well hello there. Thank you for coming,” he said. “Did you want to sign a membership form?”

    “I’m already a member,” I said, fearing he’d forgotten that I’d often attended several meetings not held in his basement.

    “That’s okay,” he laughed with a shrug. “Just put a different name and a different email address. I have to show Corey a list with lots of names or he won’t let me write his mass emails and soundbytes for the media.”

    I signed up using my best friend from 4th grade’s name and Greg immediately added it to his database. Then he switched to email and let Corey know the good news: “We’re back in double digits!”

  4. Moon-howler,

    If what Mackie and Alanna say about Corey and John S is true, then what we have is a man who is basically a nice guy but who would support any measure deemed popular so he can be elected.
    On the other hand, we have a man who we think truly believes in his heart he is doing the right thing, even though we find his efforts morally questionable.
    Are there good guys and bad guys in this scenario? And if so, who is the good guy? Who is the bad guy? If no good buy, then who is the better of the bad guys?

    Think of Corey as like a mercenary for hire. He gets paid in votes. He’s not really a good guy, nor is he really a bad guy because to be either, you actually have to have convictions. However, he is capable of doing a lot of bad things for the sake of votes.

    Think of John Stirrup as Adolph Eichmann. He is a really bad guy. Quiet, efficient, and ruthless. At least Corey can be bought and sold like a used car salesman.

    Stirrup, on the other hand, is a sincere foe who will not stop after the election is over.

    He will not stop. He must be stopped.

  5. Stewart and Stirrup’s ethics, or lack there of, are less important now. They part of a dying breed. Right wing extremists who have no shame in exploiting prejudice as part of their appeal during campaign season.

    Common sense will take them in the right direction on this issue. Otherwise, they will be voted out. Something tells me a flip-flop will be preferable to th at.

    Any politician who wants a future in 21st Century America will have to drop the Anti-Immigrant Lobby agenda, and fast. A year from now, the Immigration Resolution in Prince William County will be looked upon with shame and regret. Stirrup will say nary a cross word about Hispanics or any other minority in the 2011 election. And I predict Stewart will have resigned by then.

  6. Leila

    I am curious about something Michael. Is there a reason you cut and paste narrative passages of someone else’s writing without quotation or attribution and thus suggest the text is your own? I am speaking, to take one example, of the entire second and third graphs of your post at 21:00 on 7/30.

    It is very easy to recognize long passages from a Michael-written text. So why beyond your own penchant for repetition do you also feel it necessary to use entire sections of others’ writings without acknowledging you are doing so?

  7. SecondAlamo

    I’ve got the entire Resolution Citizen Time event on DVD. Perhaps I should make up a movie of all the stuttering and stammering that went on from the illegal supporters to show how editing can be used to form a different point of view. Instead of Mr. Duecaster I’ll loop the woman who told the BOCs “kiss my a@@” in Spanish to emphasize the ‘civility’ of the group, and maybe add the outburst from the interpreter for good measure. I’ll show some percentages of how many couldn’t speak a lick of English, and reenforce how often people demanded their ‘rights’ as illegals. It’s fairly simple really, if you gave an eloquent speech but stumbled three times and all one shows is your stumbling then you’re made to look like an idiot even though the unedited version would clearly show you are not.

    On another subject. This blog always tried to counter what was on BVBL, so how come nothing on here addressing the gang issue relating to illegals? I guess that’s one huge negative you’d rather not bring up! Blog editing I guess.

  8. Rick Bentley

    Very funny, WHWN.

  9. Segundo Alamo,

    Did you speak at citizens time on October 16?

  10. Moon-howler

    SA,
    What would be the point in bringing up gang issues? I can’t see giving them the attention. I honestly don’t think I could stand hearing from yet another bvbl gang ‘expert,’ racing over to inform us of something they heard in some hour-long work shop. I think we can all agree that gangs are a bad thing, regardless of ethnicity.

    Dr. Duecaster should be in any video dealing with the Immigration Resolution since he said he wrote it. I think the issue is the content of his speech. For most of us, that is the critical part of his message, not the efficacy of the delivery.

    Out-bursts and Ms. Kiss my a$$? Your choice. They were part of the action also. I don’t think we know who did or didn’t know a word of English. Speaking before a crowd, I would think most people would prefer their first language. I would have used the interpreter.

  11. Moon-howler

    Rick, I laughed. Fess up. You admire cleverness. You can be very clever as I witnessed yesterday while being that great superfriend, the Lurker.

  12. Censored bybvbl

    SA, the people who spoke at Citizens Time and who ended up in Eric and Annabel’s videos stood out – through their vitriol, their ignorance, their emotionalism,their humor,their pleas. And , yes, the woman who said that the BOCS could kiss her a$$ stood out as well. Even more telling than her saying the word “ass” was Stirrup’s desire to drop her speech thereby proving he was one (an a$$) and was more interested in censoring one word that she spoke and less concerned about the costly FAIR-generated abomination he unloaded on this county.

    I also was under the impression that some of the speakers who used the translator did so so that some of the crowd in the lobby and beyond could understand what they were saying, not necessarily that they all couldn’t speak English.

    What has Greg and the Specks done to address the gang issue? They report grafitti and get PO’ed when it isn’t removed pronto. From what I’ve read gangs, murderers, violent criminals are the types of illegal immigrants that ICE wants to remove. By making ICE deal with mounds of paperwork related to jaywalkers or shoplifters, the process is slowed down. Now Virginia is adding to the swamp of paperwork. Do you feel more safe?

  13. […] The Manassas Journal Messenger reports on the Friday night screening of the latest version of the 95… at Anti-BVBL. […]

  14. Just Cause

    Leila- if Michaels opinions are the same, who cares how the message was delivered. Geeeesh got nothing else better todo than to try a discredit an individual you disagree with? Damn..Just how long did it take YOU to figure it out?? If you would take the energy and time that you put into trying to discredit Michael and funneled it towards something positive…you actually might be able to sleep at night..

    Micahel- I read your words and don’t really care where you got them, if this is your true feeling then by all means go for it..Its better to be heard than to sit back and be silent..Plus you gave me something more to ponder now…..

  15. Moon-howler

    Just Cause,

    I believe Leila’s concern has everything to do with academic integrity. To take someone else’s work and deliver it as your own is plagiarism. Those are the types of behaviors that can get you expelled from college since it is seen as a form of cheating. Don’t you rule of law folks believe in it carrying over into academia? Cherry picking again.

  16. Censored bybvbl

    Plagiarism delivered in a spiel about ethics. lol

  17. Emma

    WHWN and others, rather than speculate gleefully about what goes on at HSM meetings, why don’t you just show up and find out for yourself? Then you could actually inject some truth into your posts and educate the rest of us.

  18. Moon-howler

    Emma, I think it was a light hearted moment. I can only speak for myself. I made a smart aleck remark also. I was kidding Rick. I feel certain he knows I was kidding him.

    To take things to a more serious level: Do you think HSM people would be as courteous to Alanna or Elena if they attended a meeting as the anti group has been to some of their members who have come to anti functions? If bvbl is any example of courtesy, I would bet money that it would be a real rough evening.

  19. Moon-howler

    Rick, I am hysterical. Starfish indeed! snicker. Howwwwwwwlllllll!

  20. Information Only..

    Emma-It sounds like you’ve been to some meetings. Why don’t you educate us? HSM is hardly the “hot topic” of the day. It’s more like a sparkler.

  21. Moon-howler

    Rick, you are far better at religious satire than you are a porno writer. Stick with the talent.

  22. Rick Bentley

    Well thank you but to be fair I was holding back with the porno writing.

  23. Just Cause

    Moon-

    Integrity??? LMAOOOO Cherry Picking??????

    Hi Pot met kettle….

    This isn’t College and to set the record straight, I am a fence rider on this subject. I see the good the bad and the ugly behind all this but I also see human beings and I am also struggling with “ what the future holds for my Children” yet I am also concerned for the children of illegal’s present.

  24. Leila

    Sorry to disappoint you Just Cause. I would say it took fewer than 2 minutes to notice then identify the text Michael appropriated. I read his item, saw immediately they weren’t his words, took one sentence and put it into Google, and saw the entire text he borrowed immediately. While I certainly appreciate your concern for my sleep and energy. I was awake because I chose to be, not because I couldn’t sleep. I got home very late and was catchng up with things on this blog and others. Different people keep different hours.

    You say “this isn’t college.” Actually plagiarism can get one kicked out of college and also get kicked out of a job as well. I don’t know if you work JC, but I assume from what you said you would have no problem passing off someone else’s prepared work as your own. You might want to inform your co-workers of that. It’s the neighborly thing to do.

    In any case, I was simply curious if Michael saw any disconnect between posting something about ethics and having that something about ethics be someone else’s words without quotation marks or attribution.

  25. Just Cause

    Leila said: ” any case, I was simply curious if Michael saw any disconnect between posting something about ethics and having that something about ethics be someone else’s words without quotation marks or attribution”
    _______

    Thats NOT what you said at all and I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill and your true INTENT was to belittle someone that you disagree with by pulling monkeys out your a$$..I am SUUUURRREEEE you didnt just find the 1st sentence and put into google…I think that you sit up late at night reading posts line by line and copy and paste them to google hoping to “score” . Either way..Michaels dialogue, requardless where he got it, set off for a good debate…that is until you sucked the conversation to a different direction……

    Tell me when you sing Happy Birthday to your kids or friends or whom ever, do you FIRST provide a disclaimer???? hmmmmmm

    I could go on and on but I think you “get the point”….

  26. Just Cause

    OOps wanted to add to Leila:

    “People in GLASS HOUSES shouldn’t throw STONES!

  27. Censored bybvbl

    Leila, when I read Michael’s comments about ethics, it sounded like a Cliffs Notes version of an Ethics course. Haha. I guess it’s the online version – wikipedia.

  28. Just Cause

    Sooo Your online “source” is wikipedia???? LMBO…Wikipedia has the option to allow anyone to “add” or “update” and even “delete” any information provided..

  29. Leila

    Just Cause, you are going to have to identify exactly what glass house I am living in. Please show me where I have done anything resembling this. Michael wasn’t listing some facts, he wasn’t quoting a population figure or somesuch, He was lifting entire paragraphs of narrative prose without attribution.

    I also never said I used the first sentence. How amusing you are. I don’t do this as a matter of course for Michael or anyone else. Perhaps you are projecting. Perhaps you have the kind of time to do such things. Actually when I attempt to read Michael’s words, I normally notice his very particular style. I notice his tendency to capitalize things and, in many posts that he doesn’t spell check, his copious errors that go beyond the kind of occasional typos that all of us make. For example he much enjoys listing countries as a means of somehow adding gravitas to his arguments. Unfortunately he tends to misspell many of their names, which somewhat undermines his claim of worldly experience. That is why I have told him here recently that the greatest threat to his safety would be a mob of marauding copy editors, driven to drink by the constant provocation.

    I also have challenged him frequently on the empirical content of his arguments, such as his claims that the League of Women Voters is a hate group. Perhaps you would agree with him on that too. If so, please contribute to our exchange on this matter last night.

    The single reason I brought the copying up was the obvious clash between what he was writing about, which was ethics, and what I would consider the unethical behavior of plagiarism of, again, extended passages of someone else’s text, not a fact or two, not something in common parlance, but the verbatim work of others. I didn’t spell out the clash in my first post because I thought it was obvious and didn’t need stating. Apparently for you it did.

    I very rarely check anyone’s text vis a vis Google. The only time I remember doing it in relation to one of the twinned blogs was on BVBL when a person named BL was found of pasting the same extremely lengthy text full of preposterous statistical claims about illegal aliens and crime statistics. In that case, I wasn’t interested if BL appropriated another’s words, but where he had gotten the text from since I knew the particular statistics he was citing were not ones kept by the FBI as he claimed. It turned out that it was something floating around the Net with obvious errors and provenance so dubious that even a conservative blogger objected to it.

    So again sorry to disappoint. I tend to notice people’s style and departures from same without any effort whatsoever. It’s automatic for me, just like noticing your need to be simultaneously vulgar and euphemistic with your $$. Fun times.

    Now back to the regularly scheduled programming?

  30. Leila

    Wikipedia does indeed allow all that, but none of that is plagiarism. A person who is ethical in writing would not take *large* blocks of any text and insert it as though it were his/her own without quotation or attribution.

  31. Leila

    fond not found

  32. Just Cause

    Leila-
    Guess the quote ” The devil finds work for the idle hands todo” implys to you and your sleep deprived nights…as for the “vulagarity”, if I have offended you, you have the option to:

    A: Not read and dont respond
    B: Click the back buttom on top of your browser..

    I have never said anything any where NEAR vulgar as some of your “friends”.

    Now grow some thick skin and take a nap!

  33. Okay, briefly about this Michael cuts and pastes discovery.

    1) Doesn’t effect me because I usually hit the scroll button when I see “Michael” at the top of a post. Not only are they long and dull, but they are sophomoric and only tangentially related to the subject at hand. This explains why.

    2) Why are all the other clones defending Michael? What is their relationship to him? And why isn’t Michael defending himself?

    3) From no on, I suggest that Alanna and Elena treat filibuster posts from Michael similar to the filibuster post that appeared on today’s NY Times community policing thread. Just provide a link to the original source so we can give our scroll buttons a break!!!

  34. Leila, thanks for your two seconds of detective work. And everyone, especially Rick, thanks for having a sense of humor about the Letiecq basement meeting thing. Emma, it was a joke, not speculation. Everything in that post was a joke.

  35. Moon-howler

    Plagiarism is intellectual and academic theft. I don’t care where it happens. A simple way to avoid this charge would be to say, “according to Leila, ‘such and such.'” If I just write her words down and give her no credit, I have stolen from her the same as if I lifted her wallet out of her purse.

  36. Censored bybvbl

    Haha. All the clones/trolls seem to have reappeared after a short vacation and after their flouncing out of here with the announcement that they’ll never post again.

    Sometimes after reading some of these long obtuse, compulsive, and rambling posts, I think that the local police department will find these after some bizarre event and go, “hmmmm”.

  37. I don’t mind the stealing so much as the filibustering.

    I won’t cut and paste a definition of filibuster. I’ll provide my own:

    Lawmakers filibuster when they know they are in the minority opinion, facing an argument they cannot win. Filibustering is a stall tactic, in which essentially the goal is to never shut up. When they’ve run out of their own words to say, they read from books that are unrelated, from dictionaries even (and they always provide the source).

    This is the role that people like “Info” on the NY Times Op-Ed thread, and Michael on every thread, have taken on AntiBVBL. They find themselves in an argument they cannot win, so they determine to never shut-up. And, when you are lacking in ideas in the first place, the only recourse is to quote the ideas of others. At least “Info” had the decency to let us know she filibustering. All this time I just thought Michael was ignorant and obtuse, but sincerely trying to engage with us.

  38. Moon-howler

    Rick, thanks for holding back. I am still HOWLING over the starfish and GL and Brokeback Mountain.

  39. Leila

    Just Cause,

    I am curious why you think I am sleep deprived. You think a person posting at 1:38 is sleep-deprived by definition? How quaint and how unmathematical since surely the only way to know if someone didn’t sleep enough is to know when they had to get up and how much sleep they need. Apparently if people don’t keep your hours, they by default don’t sleep enough. Just being awake at non-Just Cause time is apparently enough to have you reaching for the smelling salts. The very idea!

    Again, you have proved yourself a very uncareful reader. I wasn’t offended by your words. I remarked on them as a matter of style and because of the fact that it was amusing to see you euphemize unneccesarily. Which of my friends are you talking about? And why would anything anyone else wrote have any relationship to how I use language? I am not offended by vulgar language, though I don’t tend to use it in blog postings. What drew my attention but not offense was your use of $$

  40. Censored bybvbl

    Yeah, Rick, that’s some humorous writing on the dark side.

  41. Moon-howler

    Censored, there is that tendency to travel in packs. I have noticed that. What I don’t understand about the clone trolls is why they have to get so freaking nasty to start with. This starting up something and then getting all wounded when you get stomped on is getting old. Don’t start something up.

    For those who want to mother Michael, take him home with you. While I am sure Michael is a nice person, he tends to act arrogant and like he thinks he is better than the rest of us. Michael, try to engage in conversation and sell your ideas, in small bits and pieces rather than a treatise.

  42. Leila

    Why Here, I am late in saying this, but I very very much enjoyed your 10 questions and appreciated the humor used to convey valid concerns. It also reminded me I need to see Batman, but that’s another issue.

    Rick’s riff on another thread about his planned immigration porn movie was also quite compelling.

  43. Thanks Leila. I have not seen nor thought much of the Batman movies. But I do know Alfred was recently played by Michael Kaine and from what clips I’ve seen, he provides Batman with wisdom and a measure of poise if Batman is getting too impetuous. Marty was just being funny, and also modest, by saying that.

  44. Just Cause

    Moonhowler said: Plagiarism is intellectual and academic theft. I don’t care where it happens. A simple way to avoid this charge would be to say, “according to Leila, ’such and such.’” If I just write her words down and give her no credit, I have stolen from her the same as if I lifted her wallet out of her purse.
    *****

    MH- Really?? So plagerism is basically “ BREAKING THE LAW” ( stealing a wallet)
    and you have never ever defended anyone that breaks the law………… right????

    ” take Michael home”??
    Uhhh never said that and the reason I spoke up on his/her defense was because YOUR pack started on him…and I personally thought the dialogue he provided was actually up for good debate ( reguardless where it came from) but as usual..someone ( cough cough) got backed in a corner and the only defense left was to demise the conversation all together…

    Censored: What are you saying?? You going to the police……. (((((yawn))))) I have heard that tactic before from you…

    Leila- U still up???? And your offended by the use of the dollar sign ( $$)??

    ***************************************************************************************
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result

  45. Censored bybvbl

    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result

    Haha.

  46. Leila

    Just Cause, are you hallucinating or something? Again, why are you assuming anyone is sleep deprived? I went to sleep last night and got up this morning. Mirabile dictu. Guess what? I’ll do it again tonight. Mirabile dictu redux.

    Also, dollar signs? Are you being deliberately obtuse or you don’t know the meaning of euphemism? And exactly where did I say I was offended? I said it drew my attention but not offense. I can see you don’t proofread what you write, but can you at least read what others set down?

  47. Leila

    H E double toothpicks Just Cause. Is that better?

  48. Censored bybvbl

    Leila, I think we have a contrarian troll who is ready to rumble after last night’s session of the Red Speck. She (he?) is here to teach us a lesson – though it won’t be one in grammar.

  49. Leila

    Censored, that’s just speckulation on your part.

    🙂

  50. Rick Bentley

    Leila, want to fund the movie? I’m thinking of starting up several series that play up the racial and cultural exploitation factors, in addition to the “House of Meat” series :

    “What Would You Do For a Green Card, the Edition”

    “Give Me Amnesty or Give Me H***”

    “Flophouse G*ng B*ngs”

    “P*ssy a la Pollo”

    and last but not least “Undocumented Sluts”.

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