An article in the Gainesville Times today provides an intelligent, in-depth review of the 9500Liberty special screening to explain the April 29th roll-back of the Immigration Resolution.
For those who were not there last Friday, there is another screening in the works for next week, probably Thursday. In the mean time, here is the more popular of two clips on the 9500Liberty channel, even though the other one is more interesting:
I feel like this was a much more inquisitive piece of writing. The MJM article focused on varying reactions while this article focused on the content of the film:
The film had its share of suspense and drama, even for those who were familiar with the outcomes of each board vote.
Nohe is presented at some points in a fashion similar to a reality television show star who sits in front of a camera and talks about what was going through his mind in between clips of a particular situation.
His most prominent role comes during the climax when the board was trying to decide on a tax rate. At the centerpiece of the funding issue was the $3.1 million price tag to put video cameras in police cars. Deane has asked for the cameras to allow officers to fight the inevitable lawsuits based on charges of racial profiling.
“The whole program’s getting unbelievably expensive,” said Nohe.
Part of the problem was that the resolution had changed several times since its inception.
Originally, it called for police to check the immigration status of every person stopped for a violation. It was later changed to allow police to check the immigration status if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect is an illegal immigrant. That variation is the one that prompted the chief to ask for cameras in the police cars.
In order to pay for the cameras, the real estate tax rate would have had to be set at 98.7 cents per $100 of assessed value. After the 98.7 rate failed on a 4-4 vote, Principi asked for a 97-cent rate on a motion to eliminate the cameras and require all immigration checks to be done post-arrest.
That failed 7-1.
Viewers find out here that during a behind-the-scenes meeting between Stewart and Principi, the Republican chairman asked the Democrat to go back on his resolution.
“There’s not a hell’s worth of chance that I would oppose it,” the Woodbridge supervisor said he responded, later adding that since their break, he had the five votes needed to get a similar version of his motion passed with fewer cameras and all immigration checks moved to post-arrest.
It passed unanimously, leading Principi, who once said the illegal immigration resolution was “essentially failing,” to tell the filmmakers on camera, “I’m going to declare victory and go home.”
The post-arrest scenario, which is what was finally adopted, means that after a person has been charged with a crime, police will investigate their immigration status. Since every person charged will be checked, there is less concern about racial-profiling complaints.
Democracy does not include the right for the people to break the law, in fact it’s very existence require it. Without law you have lawbreakers and anarchy.
WIKI:Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχία anarchía, “without ruler”) may refer to any of the following:
“Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder.”
“A theoretical social state in which there is no governing person or body of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder).”
“Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere.”
NGL, the real reason you display BIGOTRY toward me, is that you apparently can’t’ stand that I tell the truth, and challenge people whose ideologies are destructive and harmful to our nation, and our society.
Lets move the bigottry discussion to the second thread. It seems to have stopped.
This thread is for the discussion of the film and related topics. Making sure people see what has gone on in their government is rather critical.
Michael, are you interested in seeing the film? It might explain why people feel as they do.
Moonhowler, go back and read my posts, I am against ANY racial, gender, religious, or ethnic group, which is politically active for the benefit of only that group, exclusive of all others. You have painted the wrong picture of my position as usual, because it serves your character assassination methodology to discredit truths you don’t like about my comments about any “political group” you may prefer to support or associate with.
I support only the equal rights of individuals, I have been very clear about that and I firmly believe Eric and Annabel, bias their films to their own discredit by not including equal footage showing the violation of equal rights for all, including the majority.
Diversity by the way discrimminates against any majority. I am against that too for that reason and that reason alone.
I have seen the film segments posted on blogs. I do not care to view them at a public place, as I do not have the time. When they post the entire film on the internet, I will see it then, and make additional judgments at that time as to its media professionalism and unbiased presentation of the issues. I seriously doubt it will be un-biased, as it has not been in the past, likely because the people making it are biased themselves to a pro-illegal alien position. What we seriously need is another film crew that presents the “majority” opinion about this issue and the con-illegal point of view without story-telling and manipulation of content that is always pro-illegal.
Michael, see second thread.
Michael, thanks for proving my point. You can stop now.
Micheal,
Everyone one on all sides if there really are any, have been invited to participate/be interviewed. However, not all were willing to be interviewed. Well, in having declined, unfortunately their view will be left out. So, who’s fault is that? It’s not Eric & Annabel’s fault they’ve extended many invitation to many and got nothing.
Sorry to interrupt…
Advice needed. My internet explorer says it can’t open antibvbl.net and that the operation aborts, but I can access it through firefox. Ideas?
Also…glad to be back in town. Now I’m REALLY sorry I missed the screening.
Sorry to interrupt (and if this becomes a double post; my computer is being testy)…
Advice needed. My internet explorer says it can’t open antibvbl.net and that the operation aborts, but I can access it through firefox. Ideas?
Also…glad to be back in town. Now I’m REALLY sorry I missed the screening.
Rod,
Caption idea ( all in fun)
Greg has to mask his eyes from looking at Corey’s elephant 🙂
LOL LOL LOL Red Dawn, you she-devil!
Let’s see, Elvis just splattered all over the blog, like a dead bug on a windshield. Count him as a joint capture. Everyone gets 1 credit.
Red Dawn did a great capture of 2 hate bunnies from the dark screen. She is up to 3 points.
I would like to recommend that whoever captured Just Cause turn her loose. I think that was a misunderstanding. I honestly do not think she is a hate bunny.
Red dawn gets another point for that great one-liner. Red Dawn, will you show Just Cause around and make her feel welcome?
This thread has exposed a pattern among those persuaded by the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, and the pathology that develops after one has imbibed more hysteria, more hatred, and more double-speak than any human being should be made to imbibe.
“Elvis” clones are distinguishable for an inability to connect political goals with personal responsibility. At times, they remember to disguise their prejudice, but not often as the disgusting “go back to Korea” rant epitomizes above .
“Michael” clones exist primarily on a non-racist plane … in this specific case, an endless conversation with himself about the word “democracy.” But because the Michael clones are dependent on the Elvis clones to achieve certain political goals, the former often find themselves “cleaning up” after the latter. On this thread, for instance, it is clear that Elvis was threatened by a news report on a film that exposes the lies of a certain anti-immigrant politician he has been trained to idolize. Rather than stay on message (whatever that is) Elvis lost his composure, and laid bare his bigotry for all to see. This compelled Michael to defend him. Or did it?
Public meltdowns on the part of people like Elvis, Greg Letiecq, and Robert Duecaster make it very difficult for Michael and other philosophers of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby to insist that the movement disguises its bigotry … or has no bigotry, whichever they prefer to argue. Ironically, Michael’s antipathy toward Annabel and Eric (the targets of Elvis’ hateful tirade) is based on the fact that they, among other things, are known for exposing outbursts of blatant bigotry by various mouthpieces for the Anti-immigrant Lobby, most notably Letiecq and Duecaster. So Michael must have felt he was required to perform a double duty by attacking everyone on this thread.
But Michael, please. Let’s assume that bigotry is NOT at the heart of your anti-illegal immigration crusade. If so, why don’t you set an example for others? Stop defending bigotry and stop attacking those who expose and/or object to it.
If hatred and prejudice are NOT the foundations of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, why is your behavior dictated by outbursts of hatred and prejudice? Why not ignore them when they occur, instead of implicating yourself by defending or filibustering them?
If it’s not a part of your movement. Then let it go. It’s not your job to defend every bigot who pops up on a blog somewhere. Let it go.
If you want to kick the habit, here’s an example of how NOT to be governed by prejudice or poor taste. I happen to believe that the agenda of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby is bad for Prince William County’s economic future and our public safety. There are some who, while agreeing with me on this basic premise, are known to accuse police officers of having a genetic predisposition to oppress minorities. I don’t agree with this sentiment. And, I don’t feel the need to leap to the defense of anyone who expresses it. It has nothing to do with me.
If, on the other hand, prejudice is a central pillar in the coalition you have joined … well, keep doing what you’re doing, but I suggest you find another lobby to join, because recent history has shown that coalitions founded on hate tend to discredit those who join them.
"Democracy?"
So, there is this other pattern, of Michael’s in particular, that I’ve chosen to ignore up to this point. Michael has identified the word "democracy" as his very own invincible buzzword. I don’t know what’s wrong the generic invincible buzzword: "patriotism," but "democracy" is also a very fine word. Both have good connotations. Doesn’t mean you own them though.
So what is the purpose of this filibuster thing Michael does? Tactically speaking, it is the equivalent of a grown adult covering both ears, squeezing shut his eyes, and chanting "I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I?" It makes a lot of noise, but convinces no one.
But democracy is a big word, and Michael tells us he has a better grasp on how democracy should be practiced than those who believe in multiculturalism . I find this yucky. But I don’t see a sound argument here. In fact, I am far from understanding what Michael is even talking about when he rambles on about "democracy" (and I consider myself somewhat educated on the subject of American government), so I doubt anyone else understands him either.
But let’s remember why the democracy filibuster seemed necessary to Michael here on this thread.
First there was a blatant expression of bigotry from a member of the Anti-Immigrant Family Tree. Someone said, "That ain’t right." And Michael leaps to action with another essay on democracy.
Clearly, it is Michael’s reflex argument whenever the conversation on a thread is disadvantageous to the Anti-Immigrant Lobby. My experience with this blog has been that this occurs rather often, in fact, by design. So, in order to spare our readers the tedious redundancy of Michael’s one-note filibusters, I am hereby nominating a third invincible buzzword for our beloved Michael to employ: "applesauce."
Like "democracy" and "patriotism," the word "applesauce" brings to mind positive thoughts. However, if Michael were to filibuster this blog by pontificating on the word applesauce (and claim he and only he has the right to define applesauce) he would have accomplished the same goal and amused us instead of boring us.
Casual, NotGL, MH, & WHWN-
Here’s something to think about with regards to schools, and the “Charitable Chairman”. We’ve got some Supervisors with children attending private schools. So ,why would they care but so much about our public schools? I bet some don’t even attend private schools in PWC. This is a shame. I certainly understand one wanting the best possible education for their child, and I don’t dispute that. However, there are tax paying citizens in the county that also want the best possible public education for their children. When the BOS wants to start short changing our schools, the are short changing each and every school age child in the county. Now, the Supervisors with kids in private schools are NOT effected by this in any way, shape or form. With that being said of course those of us with children in public schools do benefit from their tax dollars, as we do from those that choose to homeschool. Something to think about. I know I sure have.
Thanks for the insights, all. It’s strange how this agreement works. Wasting millions of dollars to destroy our economy and get a bad reputation actually adds millions of dollars to the school budget. I just takes away from other programs like the Senior Daycare Center.
I stopped reading Michael posts ages ago, but it’s good to know I haven’t missed much!
I saw Marty Nohe this afternoon… He confirmed that he has no idea who Rob Mariano is.
NGL.
Grrrr!! Don’t get me started on the Manassas Senior Daycare Center. Here’s a little bit of my feelings on that horrific act.
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/supervisors_should_respect_their_elders/18369/
Just out of curiousity, why should senior daycare be such a protected entitlement? And yes, I know I’m going to hear all about respecting our elders, etc.,but it is my plan to take care of my own parents when that beomes necessary. What about the many families who can barely afford daycare for their children, and where staying home is not an option? The ones who make too much for any kind of federal assistance,but are barely scraping by? Should the government be providing for child daycare as well, even though those families don’t meet the definition for poverty?
I just don’t get why this is such a big deal. It seems like it is being used as nothing more than emotional ammunition against the resolution. There are churches out there–Manassas Baptist comes to mind–that provide rather nice adult daycare services.
Emma,
The Senior Day program was based on a “sliding scale” according to ones income. The alternative is not, it’s the same price for all. Seniors are on a fixed income. The program is still alive in Woodbridge. Don’t you think are seniors deserve EQUAL treatment? I lived with my mother so we took care of my father at home. Now, if my mom had not been retired, and I working at home this would’ve been impossible. Most do want to take care of their parents, and by the same token this generation of seniors is a prideful bunch and they are not looking for freebies. They did pay for the county program, it was NOT free.
I supported and advocated for the resolution. My point is Corey said the millioins for immigration was really a small portion of such a small budget. So why the hell wouldn’t $160k be gotten. Hearth & Home willing be getting the majority of this business all because our supervisors feel so much more important to spend their discrestionary funds on Crepe Myrtles, gang tatoo removal. Yes, descetionary funds are just that. It really hard for me to grasp that they support these types of things. Yet, give a rat’s a$$ less about the seniors.
Hearth & Home does NOT even come close to having all the county program had. Well, Emma, I hope you are not working when your parents might need these services so you will be able to take care of them yourself. And, if you are still working I hope you and your family have very deep pocket books to cover the expense of having someone come to your house and take care of your love one. Or worse yet, they might have to go to Nursing home to the tune of about $7,000 a month. Now, if a senior has no assetts they can apply for Medicaid, and then we ALL foot that bill. Would that be your prefrence. To see seniors sell their homes, and give all their money away to get this assistance simply sickens me.I don’t feel the program is an entitlement in the least. I know life is NOT fair, but does it not bother you that this program was only cut for those at Manassas, and NOT Woodbridge.
Somehting to think about. imho
I pray you NEVER have to end up taking care of your parents I can assure it will damn near kill you. I mean this sincerely, Emma.
This was an issue last year, before the resolution. The same people went out and had to beg for this facility in the FY08 budget. It was my understanding that they were told they would not have to worry again. Wrong.
Emma, sometimes we have the best of intentions and they do not work out. Care of a parent with alzheimers is a full time job. Those I know who have done it are generally exhausted and have to have assistance. Just a few hours a day might mean the difference in that person being able to care for a parent at home or having to put them in a home.
Assistance for the elderly is extremely expensive. In many respects, the senior day care center is chump change for the county and a fortune for those individuals who must provide for an aging, declining parent. I would gladly contribute to a fund to keep this program. That wasn’t offered up as part of a solution.
With all due respect, Chris, I don’t agree that the government will automatically do a better job of taking care of my parents than I can. I think it would be an honor to take care of them. When did we become a society so completely self-indulgent and averse to caring for our own elders? Now we want everything nice and neat and clean–Mom and Pop get a little confused, let’s ship them off to a nursing home or let the government deal with them somehow so we can get on with our own lives.
I know elder care is expensive, and I know how exhausting it all is. I just see that so many people expect the government to provide every which way for them, but the money has to come from somewhere. And so many of our seniors are not exactly poor themselves.
If senior daycare is so vital, then I would argue that child daycare is just as important. Shouldn’t the government be providing that, as well, since childcare is exhausting and challenging, and parents should not have to choose between staying home with the children and putting food on the table?
I guess it is unfortunate that this issue became wrapped up with the resolution. That was a blunder on the part of the supervisors. It should have been evaluated on its own merits. Was it a cost-effective program in the first place?
Emma do you think about it at all before you support everything Corey Stewart does? We have the Duecaster Disaster instead of the Daycare Center. We know you think it’s your job to say you like economic disaster. But you’re beyond credibility when you say you like what happened with the Senior Daycare Center. Just say “I blindly support Corey Stewart without thinking about it.” Cut and paste that every time we bring up another tragic consequence of his political opportunism and poor leadership. It would save yourself the trouble of coming up with foolish arguments why we should like the fact that our community has turned its back on our seniors.
Mackie, 1. August 2008, 11:08
What a painful video to watch, thanks for posting Mackie, you really get to the human story of the issue.
I was out of town on vacation so I missed the screening, it sounds like it was a fabulous turn out. I find it interesting that many voices from the other side are quite silent. It’s hard to fight the reality of truth when it is so clearly demonstrated in plain site. Thank you Eric and Annabel for providing this invaluable public service for my community, my county, my state, and my country. This has been a painful journey, but I firmly believe that right will prevail along with reason and a deeper sense of humanity that connects us all.
Emma,
Yeesh…those comments on elder care seem a little harsh. My grandfather had a severe case of Alzheimer’s for many years. We all intended to have the honor of taking care of him at home for life. Believe me, the decision to have him live in a nursing home was heartbreaking for my entire family and not entered into lightly. My aunt visited him DAILY. The cost of his expert care exhausted his estate, and stripped my parents and my aunt of their savings. My mother has been at the “retirement age” for many years, but cannot do so. Since my father died, she needs the money. We all work hard in public service jobs. I’m sure many other middle class families have stories like mine.
And excuse me…but you shouldn’t make light of “mom and pop” getting “a little confused.” Alzheimer’s is not like that. My grandfather had many injuries from just taking a walk outside and wandering away…falling down. My aunt devoted her life to taking care of him, and she and my parents still couldn’t manage his health concerns well enough. Plus, everyone had to work, too. I can assure you that none of this was “neat and clean.” Loving someone and seeing them in that condition…knowing that you cannot just take care of it on your own or even with your family is something incredibly painful.
You say that you know it’s expensive and exhausting, but it doesn’t sound like you really know it. I found myself wondering if you had been through this experience. It’s horrible, and I wouldn’t wish it on you.
Emma,
I hope you read what Divirsity Gal said. My dad was a Alzheimer’s patient, as was my grandmother and all of her sibblings but one suffered with this dreadful disease. It’s horrible to watch a family member die while still living. My father wondered off and didn’t know his name and/or address.
Your thoughts really lead me to believe you’ve not dealt with this type of disease, it’s terminal. I hope you remain in good health so you are able to do all you will need to keep your loved one at home. Alzheimers can strike people in their 40’s. I friend and their mother in-law lost her battle with this dreadful disease at age 51, yes I said 51.
I don’t think the government needs to be taking complete care of folks. Frankly, kids to NOT fit into this equation at all. Kids are preventable. People choose to have kids, we ALL have parents.
Again, a truly hope you don’t have to end up in this situation.
Just because I don’t think the government needs to be everyone’s cookie jar does not mean I don’t have compassion for aging elders and their families. And I am well aware of the implications of Alzheimers, more than you can imagine, but you would rather assume otherwise; so go to church this morning after your self-righteous castigation of me and feel the glow.
You might note that I did say that it was unfortunate that this program became an either/or deal with the resolution rather than being evaluated on its own merits. Was it a cost-effective program? No one wants to answer that, because you would prefer to demonize me as some hard-hearted Corey disciple.
Enjoy the day.
Emma,
I did not say had no understanding. It’s the way it read to me. You gave no indication you understood all of the implications. Of course, I think all care about seniors. I don’t feel self-righteous in the least. Castigation? Ha, hardly. I have no desire to feel the glow or put others down. I was merely explaining where I was coming from and what all potentionally face.
Cost-effectiveness is not always something the government is concerned about. Yet, heaven forbid should the county not turn a profit. It’s called “doing the right thing”. The county never even considered asking these families about possibly paying more for the services they were getting. The fact was there was once again NO real discussion effecting a county policy or program. The truly needs to be partnership with the county and organizations concerned for seniors. The whole program needs revamped and with citizen input.
Emma, I have NEVER once demonized you or Corey. I’ve always been respectful to you as I am with all human beings. You seem to think I have. Please, show me where you were demonized? That’s not what I’m about.
My church going is NOT a something you need to be concerned about. I don’t worry myself with one’s religion or church going.
I hope you can have a nice day too. I truly do.
Emma,
You said:
“I think it would be an honor to take care of them. When did we become a society so completely self-indulgent and averse to caring for our own elders? Now we want everything nice and neat and clean–Mom and Pop get a little confused, let’s ship them off to a nursing home or let the government deal with them somehow so we can get on with our own lives.”
I am not trying to paint you as hard-hearted or demonize you. I just had a really strong reaction to the language you used in the first paragraph of your August 2nd post (22:45). Saying that it was a matter of mom and pop getting a little confused, people wanting things neat and clean, and implying that you, unlike these other people, would think it an honor to personally take care of your parents, and not be self-indulgent or quick to just get on with life did not at all mesh with my experience. Like I said, I think there are a lot of other people out there who share my family’s experience.
Knowing about my family’s experience, would you use the same language to convince my mom or my aunt that they just needed to take care of my grandfather on their own? Would you call them self-indulgent? I was so angry when I read those words, yet I know from your support of Rick that you are compassionate. It seems to me that this was just an over-simplification of what it is like to take care of a dementia patient, and I wanted to let you know what it was like from my perspective.
Again, you indicated that you have some experience with this, and for that I am truly sorry. I’m sure you know how painful it is then.
You may think me self-righteous, but sharing this family experience with you doesn’t make me feel at all smug or superior. That’s an awful thing to say. Believe me, if I could go back and wish my grandfather’s Alzheimer’s away, I would do it in a heartbeat. It was agonizing for all involved.
Yes, I agree with you, DG, and understand how heart-wrenching this can be and how my words might have come across; and looking back, they were harsh and didn’t convey what I really meant. But I never see recognition here that the government does not fund itself; that these costs are born by taxpayers who might– with less of a tax burden on a host of social programs,many of which are not always cost effective–be better able to save for their future and afford a better life, all the way to the end of life (sorry for the run-on). I am not denying that elder care is a difficult problem; I just don’t know that government-provided (taxpayer-paid) services are the solution to take care of every group’s special needs.
My problem is that I don’t think government is always the best steward of taxpayer funds. For example, I wish I had the option of opting out of the Social Security system. Even in this horrible economy, I think I could get a better return on the investment than the government will likely be able to provide to me by the time I retire.
That’s all. Nothing whatever to do with Corey or my wish for “economic disaster” as NGL continually suggests.
I love it when the Emma’s of the world say “the government doesn’t need to be in everyone’s cookie jar” when referring to successful programs that improve people’s lives and make a real difference in our community like the Senior Daycare center did.
Funny how the same bunch never manages to use the same phrase for programs that drive a wedge through the community, depress our economy, chase away valued members of our community, and pull our police officers and our entire county government away from things like public safety and sound fiscal policy. We’ve got plenty of tax dollars for the Duecaster Disaster but none for programs that help people. Tax and waste Republicans! And “waste” is a nice way of putting it when you’re talking about a the Duecaster Disaster, which not only threw millions of tax dollars down the drain but also hurt our economy and weakened our tax base for years to come.
By the way, thanks to the Duecaster Disaster, you can bet we’ll be raising taxes and cutting programs again next year. That’s right PWC. We can thank Emma and her boy Corey Stewart for another year of paying more for less in return.
Emma, I’m not saying you wished for the economic disaster the Immigration Resolution has caused. But you blindly support Corey Stewart, or Robert Duecaster, or Greg Letiecq or the Resolution or HSM. Now that it is widely accepted that these culprits and their Immigration Resolution really screwed the county in terms of economic health and the tax base that runs our government, you have yet to admit you didn’t foresee these consequences. You just say they don’t matter as much as getting rid of certain people.
You think the Daycare center was a poor way of spending taxpayer money? Well if the people who used to be able to work during the day can no longer work because the have to care for ailing seniors, that means the whole family has less money to spend. That means they spend less money in our stores. The stores make less money. They lay off workers. And they have less money to spend in our stores. Our economy shrinks. Stores close. Property values drop. Tax base dwindles. Tax rates go up. Services get cut.
There is so much more to policy than Republican talking points like “government doesn’t need to be in my cookie jar.” You know the political slogans. But you don’t know how government works or should work. So just say you love Corey Stewart because he’s the Republican party’s last hope in Virginia and stop pretending you know anything about policy.
NGL, you apparently don’t read the content of many of my posts , which is apparently why you just decide that I “blindly support Corey Stewart” et al. You are definitely one of the more difficult posters to have any meaningful discussion with, because you pick at every point that isn’t in complete lockstep with your simplistic views. Your notion of “widely accepted” is likely based on a couple of articles in the MJM and WashPost from some extremely liberal reporters, and your own base of support here. You’re talking off the top of your head here, so please don’t tell me I don’t know how government works. Economic problems are not unique to PWC; they are nationwide and there is no empirical evidence that the resolution caused any of them locally. If businesses that catered specifically to illegal immigrants have suffered, then they should have diversified their customer base from the beginning. That is simply good business sense.
If you ever bothered to actually read any of my posts, you would have noticed that I have often acknowledged doubts and concerns and have come to some common understanding with some people here, some of whom have expressed some uncomfortably extreme views, in my opinion. But that is how it works; people talk about things, clear up misunderstandings and try to find some way to keep talking. I will not follow your liberal script, sorry
I don’t expect you to follow a script. In fact, I’d prefer you not follow a script. You need for the problems we’re facing to not be Corey Stewart’s fault. You begin with that and accept or reject newspaper articles and economic data analysis based on your preconceived notion.
Me? I didn’t expect the economic disaster the Resolution caused. I thought what the economists warned us about was just way of positioning an argument, much like the stupid stuff that Corey Stewart says about crime stats and ESOL. But it turns out that in fact they were right. Our economy is the worst in the region. Our housing market is 3 times worse than the next county. We’re flooded with foreclosures. We have 18 months of backlog on unsold houses, and prices are dropping through the floor. It was all predicted by the people we didn’t listen to because at the time we had more faith in Corey Stewart that he wouldn’t lie to us about these things. Now we know better and we changed our view.
But you don’t change your view. It’s impossible for you to change anything because you look at each “liberal” newspaper article, and each new economic analysis with only one criteria: does it fit your pre-conceived agenda?
It’s like the Iraq war. Everything you were told by one side turned out to be wrong. Everything you were told by the other side turned out to be right. At some point, you have to stop believing the people who are wrong every time. Or at least question the next lie that comes down the pike.
So what will it be? When Corey Stewart comes up with his next fake crime report, or misleading ESOL “savings,” or pretends like the economic disaster here wasn’t predicted by leading economists, are you going to think about it first, or are you going to say Corey must be right because he’s on my side?
Why don’t you tell me and everyone else what I feel about the Iraq war? Kindly enlighten me.
You’ve got me neatly categorized on “the other side.” Easy for you, it saves you a boatload of reading. You’ve decided I’m Republican, you’ve decided I support Corey unconditionally (uh, I don’t live in PWC, by the way), and you’ve decided that I’ve supported the war unconditionally. There is no nice way to put this: You are making a fool of yourself the more you talk.
County money for a senior center doesn’t add up to government making decisions on how best to care for our elderly. It WAS a county program to assist the elderly and their families who chose to care for them in the home setting. Unless people have unlimited money, this is often difficult to do.
Truthfully, for those of us who have had the care, part time or full time, of an aging, ill parent or loved one, having the difficulties trivialized does raise the blood pressure.
My mother had physical ailments, not alzheimers, and I still bristled. She continually worried that her assets would run out and she would become a burden on my brothers and me. Assisted living facilities range from 3000 on up in this area. Nursing homes start at 7000 a month. In-home help is about $20 an hour. How many people have this kind of spare cash sitting around? I know I sure don’t.
That’s great if you don’t support the war, Emma. I’m not saying that you do. I hope you don’t or else I’m wasting time with my analogy. But I’ll bet you supported it at the time when your leaders were telling you were were going to be attacked by a WMD soon if we didn’t strike them first. Then you changed your mind after this drastic action they told you was so necessary turned out to be a big disaster.
Well same thing with what happened to our county. Okay, so you’re not a resident here. But you have to at least have some sympathy for what we’re going through. How much we’ve lost in terms of return on our tax dollar, our reputation, our community spirit, our pride in where we live.
If nothing else you should sympathize with us instead of saying, “oh it’s not so bad because of X.”
And don’t rest so easy just because you don’t live here. Because what do you think is the purpose of FAIR posting on the website what a big success their intervention in PWC was? They want the same thing to happen to your county, and to other counties around the nation. We’re all connected Emma. Our suffering is your suffering to a large degree.
Also, you don’t have to be a Republican to rely on Republican talking points. All I know about you Emma is that you rely on Republican talking points. How you label yourself is of no consequence. Plenty of Democrats went along with the war/occupation of Iraq. Plenty of Democrats went along with the Immigration Resolution. Bad policy is bad policy no matter who wrote the talking points you post here.
NGL, whatever. I am relying on Emma talking points, but if it is easier for you to shelve me into one category or another, go right ahead. You just make yourself the perfect “anti” caricature. I’m too bored with this discussion to type any more.
Emma, it’s not so much that they’re talking points. They’re more like clichés. But I have nothing against you using them, and I have nothing against you calling them as “Emma talking points.” It’s a free country. I don’t agree with your argument that the Senior Daycare Center was no great loss because government is not the best steward of taxpayer money. Even if your reasoning was not a cliché, I’d still disagree. And I can. It’s a free country.
WHWN 23:53
“Michael” clones exist primarily on a non-racist plane … in this specific case, an endless conversation with himself about the word “democracy.” But because the Michael clones are dependent on the Elvis clones to achieve certain political goals, the former often find themselves “cleaning up” after the latter. On this thread, for instance, it is clear that Elvis was threatened by a news report on a film that exposes the lies of a certain anti-immigrant politician he has been trained to idolize. Rather than stay on message (whatever that is) Elvis lost his composure, and laid bare his bigotry for all to see. This compelled Michael to defend him. Or did it?
WHWN, you should read more closely, rather than make assumptions. I (Michael) did not support, nor “clean-up after” Elvis. I admonished him, just as I am admonishing you for own “bigotry” toward me.
What plane would you like for me to exist on WHWN, the the Non-racists plane I exist on, or the plane you apparently exist on “the racist plane”? More correctly, I exist on “the neutral plane, the one that support lawfullness regardless of gender, race, religion or ethnicity”
WHWN 23:53
Ironically, Michael’s antipathy toward Annabel and Eric (the targets of Elvis’ hateful tirade) is based on the fact that they, among other things, are known for exposing outbursts of blatant bigotry by various mouthpieces for the Anti-immigrant Lobby, most notably Letiecq and Duecaster. So Michael must have felt he was required to perform a double duty by attacking everyone on this thread.
I neither attack everyone on this thread, nor have antipathy toward Annabel and Eric for exposing bigotry, only disagreement that they are not presenting an “unbiased” view, a majority view, or an equally balanced journalistic view, due to their own politcal bias and political alignment. Unlike you, I’ll bet they understand (silently) what I mean, even if they will not admit it publically.
WHWN 23:52
“But Michael, please. Let’s assume that bigotry is NOT at the heart of your anti-illegal immigration crusade. If so, why don’t you set an example for others? Stop defending bigotry and stop attacking those who expose and/or object to it.”
These are your words not mine, I do not defend bogotry. I point it out when people don’t recognize they too are doing it (it is not one-sided), especially when they present out of balance arguments, imbalanced and emotionally angry statements, untruthful and malicious personal slanders, and personal offense at others beliefs and value systems that are lawful and ethical. I only oppose unlawfulnes and lack of ethics. Are you saying I should stop defending ethics and lawfulness in favor of lack of ethics and lawlessness?
Your comments lead me to believe you are doing the same bigotry you are de-crying.
WHWN 23:53
“If hatred and prejudice are NOT the foundations of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby, why is your behavior dictated by outbursts of hatred and prejudice? Why not ignore them when they occur, instead of implicating yourself by defending or filibustering them?
You are the one saying my behavior is dictated by outbursts of hatred and prejudice, that is an internal anger toward me of your own design and delusion. My words if people carefully read them are neither hateful, nor prejudiced. My words stand far stronger than your unfounded accusations to the contrary. Go back and read them. You might learn something.
WHWN 23:53
“I happen to believe that the agenda of the Anti-Immigrant Lobby is bad for Prince William County’s economic future and our public safety. There are some who, while agreeing with me on this basic premise, are known to accuse police officers of having a genetic predisposition to oppress minorities. I don’t agree with this sentiment. And, I don’t feel the need to leap to the defense of anyone who expresses it. It has nothing to do with me.
If, on the other hand, prejudice is a central pillar in the coalition you have joined … well, keep doing what you’re doing, but I suggest you find another lobby to join, because recent history has shown that coalitions founded on hate tend to discredit those who join them.”
I happen to believe the anti-“illegal” immigration effort is good for PWC and for the nation’s “democracy”, and “patriotism” and “law”. This is where we disagree, you have your belief I have mine.
I agree with your last four sentences (surprise), “There are some who, are known to accuse police officers of having a genetic predisposition to oppress minorities. I don’t agree with this sentiment. And, I don’t feel the need to leap to the defense of anyone who expresses it. Neither have I, but you erroneously seem to think I have. Again an erroneous assumption that is a “belief”, but not a “fact”.
Again you are in error, I have not “joined” any coalition. I am an independent thinker and independent voter, I believe in the Individual, not a group political coalition, based on gender, race, religion, or ethnic group. I have said this many times. You have not listened.
“Democracy?”
So, there is this other pattern, of Michael’s in particular, that I’ve chosen to ignore up to this point. Michael has identified the word “democracy” as his very own invincible buzzword. I don’t know what’s wrong the generic invincible buzzword: “patriotism,” but “democracy” is also a very fine word. Both have good connotations. Doesn’t mean you own them though.
So what is the purpose of this filibuster thing Michael does? Tactically speaking, it is the equivalent of a grown adult covering both ears, squeezing shut his eyes, and chanting “I know you are but what am I? I know you are but what am I?” It makes a lot of noise, but convinces no one.”
I neither own the word democracy, nor dislike the word “patriotism”, I support and approve hightly of both of them. I have never claimed anyone practicing free speech or ideas or concepts is being “un-patriotic”, only claiming they may not understand “democracy” very well when they support anarchy, lawlessness and support “illegal” immogration to the detriment of the majorty of everyone elses “democratically” guaranteed rights under the law, for everyone EQUALLY, AS INDIVIDUALS, NOT GROUPS aligned along gender, racial, religious, and ethnic group lines of political power.
I claim you disagree with that concept of “democracy”, and don’t understand the constitution very well when you ignore its conceptual entirety, in favor of just “illegal” immigrants.
First I am debating, not fibustering (there is no vote pending here, and that is what a filibuster tactic is for, so you use the word incorrectly). Second, I cover neither my eyes, nor my ears, I see and listen to everyone, and then ANSWER THEM IN DEBATE, about law, principal, democracy, ethics and a battle of words. Your characterization is nothing more than a weak attempt at character assassination, by visual association with monkeys, something most people would be very offended by, and if I used that image of you, you would likely be most offended and profoundly angry rather than able to restrain your tongue.
Noise to you maybe, however a decent and thoughtful argument to those with the capacity to listen and respond in better ways. It has convinced some, as it is truthful, honest, impartial as much can be on this forum and respectful.
WHWN 0:34
“But democracy is a big word, and Michael tells us he has a better grasp on how democracy should be practiced than those who believe in multiculturalism . I find this yucky. But I don’t see a sound argument here. In fact, I am far from understanding what Michael is even talking about when he rambles on about “democracy” (and I consider myself somewhat educated on the subject of American government), so I doubt anyone else understands him either.”
I find “yucky” those that believe in “multiculturalism” equally discriminatory toward the majority, each harmed “INDIVIDUALLY” by the concepts of “one of each” multiculturalism and diversity political advocacy, giving advantage and privilege to political groups that align politcally along racial, gender, religious, ethnic hate groups concerned only with their own groups domination, oppression, supremacy and advantage over all other “individuals” not a member of their specific “multicurtural” or “diversity” seeking group. I believe this tpye of “multi-cultural” hatred and self-promotion is destructive to democracy for the very reasons “factions” that undermine the “individual” vote, and “individual” right for equal protection and fairness under the law is “undermined” by multi-cultural “factions”.
You don’t understand it because you incorrectly and un-wisely believe group factions “strengthen” democracy, especially when aligned along gender, racial, religious, and ethnic group, political lines of power. No-where in the constitution is this concept found, Democracy is based only on “individual” rights concepts. Group factions destroy democracy, when aligned along race, gender, religious and ethnic group political lines of power. Most Constitutional experts, judges and law professors “agree with me”. We are only guaranteed “equal opportunity”, not equal outcomes. “Multiculturalism” and “diversity” is an illegal attempt by “minorities” to gain “equal outcomes, by discrimminating against majority “numbers” and against “individuals”.
I’m convinced the reason you don’t understand what I am saying is you have been “brainwashed” by pro-ethnic, gender and racial group political ideology, that has in the last 30 years “diverged” from the concept of democracy, to “group privilege advocacy” and “entitlement to more than individual rights” based on your race, gender, religion and ethnic group”.
WHWN,0:04
“Clearly, it is Michael’s reflex argument whenever the conversation on a thread is disadvantageous to the Anti-Immigrant Lobby. My experience with this blog has been that this occurs rather often, in fact, by design. So, in order to spare our readers the tedious redundancy of Michael’s one-note filibusters, I am hereby nominating a third invincible buzzword for our beloved Michael to employ: “applesauce.”
Like “democracy” and “patriotism,” the word “applesauce” brings to mind positive thoughts. However, if Michael were to filibuster this blog by pontificating on the word applesauce (and claim he and only he has the right to define applesauce) he would have accomplished the same goal and amused us instead of boring us.”
So if I understand what you are advocating by the use of the word “applesauce” is a code word for “lets not rationally debate the issues, he might be right so let’s just ignore him”. You sound like some of the people from South Carolina at the 2nd Constitutional Congress, trying to just “ignore” our founding fathers concept of “Democracy” and “Patriotism” and attacked those who spoke out against “British Tyranny” by just telling everyone to “acquiesce” with a shrill tougue harping “Can’t we just all get along”? And use the “intellectually ignorant” word “applesauce” instead?
I’m so disappointed and sad NGL, I read yours….