I have to eat my words, there WERE workers that had access to secured areas of the airport. I would agree that when there are locations that require security clearances, we should absolutely know the backgrounds of those people. Once again, this just amplifies that we need to fix our broken immigration system. We need to have a credible way of knowing who is here in our country. I recognize, that many families, caught up in this raid, will be in heartache tonight.
I will be posting a story, very soon, about another detainee death, where the man suffered horribly.
DULLES, Va. — An immigration raid at Dulles International Airport resulted in 55 arrests on Wednesday, Immigration and Customs Enforcement says.
The people were doing contract work at a construction site, inside a secure area, where they would potentially have access to runways and airplanes.ICE agents made their move as the workers were being bused to the site, checking work and immigration papers.
The agency says one of the workers had an airport security badge, that grants unescorted access to the airport tarmac.
ICE says allowing unauthorized workers into sensitive sites puts the nation’s infranstructure at risk.
Most of the people arrested will be flown an ICE detention facility in El Paso, Texas to begin removal proceedings.
Officials say this operation and others like it aim to guard infrastructure. The agency says it’s important to make sure people who work at airports are in the United States legally.
Investigation into the workers’ immigration status has been going on for a while, leading up to the raid.
The arrests did not affect flights or travel to and from the airport
As I said before… this is a scary story, the companies that employed these illegal-immigrants should be heavily fined and their business license removed, especially the one that employed an illegal-immigrant and provided him with an airport security badge.
Some people seem to think that it’s impossible for something like this to happen, they seem to think that illegal-immigrants only do the cleaning. They just bury their head in the sand and fail to realize the potential for disaster with something like this.
Thank God someone occasionally pays attention.
Given the tragic loss of Bill Gwatney it’s a sad day for many families in America today.
My heart goes out to all the families who aren’t able to be with their loved ones today for whatever reason; and the rest of us should be grateful that we are, and can.
Elena
One of the reasons illegals are more likely to victims is that they are able to be threatened or compromised more than the average legal citizen. It’s a cruel world out there.
Besides, where do the dogs sniff for bombs??? Trash cans. They sell some that can absorb the shock of varying grades of bombs…
I wouldn’t get too upset about eating your words. You’re wrong about almost everything you express an opinion about, so it’s just par for the course!
Maybe only American citizens who have been carefully vetted should be allowed in high security areas, regardless of the types of work.
Such vetting usually includes credit, debt, fidelity, organizations, things that could compromise a person. Usually money is the biggest factor. People are greedy. Most of our recent traitor-spies have committed treason for greed rather than idealology.
After 9/11, I ask myself what would Israel do? That country is a good benchmark for rating our own security.
These raids are all public gestures meant to help John McCain get elected.
In the building I work in sometimes there are some federal offices. I’m guessing some of the maintenance people are undocumented.
Before september 11th our clandestine services were tracking Bin Laden by listening in on his cell phone calls. It was a gold mine of information. Unfortunately, Bill Clinton was such a moral coward all the opportunities to kill Bin Laden went to waste. And then a high placed US official who wanted to gain some good publicity for his cause leaked the fact that we could listen in on Bin Laden’s conversations. This information got back to Bin Laden and he stopped using cell phones.
Shortly afterwards we had 9-11 and over three thousand people were murdered. The greatest security risks in our country are the guys in pressed suits you see on the TV everyday. But they just cover it all up with snow-jobs like the 9-11 commission report.
Slowpoke,
Please give the woman just a tad bit more credit. It is quite admirable that she has the guts to admit when she’s wrong. Does the admin of the other blog ever do that? If so, I would LOVE to see a cut-and-paste from his blog that proves this. Then you would see one more chick on this blog admitting wrong thinking.
Also, it would be nice if we had some local politicians who admitted when they were wrong. No one is infallible, ya know. I trust people more when they admit mistakes.
Good Lord. One of the workers had a security badge??? That’s really bad. And yes, it IS scary.
I feel bad for those who are being torn away from their families and who are victims of corporate abuse. I feel bad for the increased paranoia, resentment and hatred this incident will cause. I cannot believe 55 people had malicious intent in this case. That doesn’t make it all better, though.
It is hard to believe with all the security we have at airports that we would have this happen at an international airport right near D.C. The irony……
When are we as a country going to get this fixed? No matter who is here under what status, we need to identify them now and do background checks. Sort out the rest as soon as we can, but those checks must be a priority.
I don’t think this security issue is a really big deal when you look at it in context. Our country is wide open for another attack. Our security is like swiss cheese. Just look at the border! You could literally march an army across it.
I worked for a short time on an account in a building in Northern Virginia that I think was the national headquarters of Army logistics. There were quite a few contractors there from other countries. There was a father and son there from Egypt who expressed disdain for US foreign policy in the middle east. Some might say they were a security threat. They were really nice guys.
There was a general there who didn’t want to memorize his computer’s password. He made the network guys set up his computer so that all he had to do was turn it on and he was logged into the network. He was a general so he got his way.
This meant that every night, the cleaning crew could come through and turn on his computer and immediately have access to sensitive Army logistical information for the whole nation.
Sleep well tonight.
MH recall the TB Atty from Atlanta (?) that made it through customs?
Again we have such high expectations from those we pay so little.
We only highly value those that make money and we excuse them over and over again. Hence we have businesses hiring illegals.
Yes the Republican party who favors big business sucks up the moral religious right. Democrats aren’t any better. They just don’t play pretend about it.
Mossad! Now there’s a group that doesn’t play pretend.
Read Dan Silva’s novels….
Thanks Diversity!
I don’t mind admitting when I am wrong, it’s how we all learn. Maybe Slowpoke believes they know it all.
israel does not have hijackings because they dont let the hijackers on the plain, it’s that simple. they profile, they search EVERY back by hand and other means. In addition, they search EVERYONE. If you have every taken an EL AL flight you would know what I mean. in addition to all that, they have on board sky marshals on EVERY flight and they are constantly rated the most secure airline in the world.
that’s the airline I want to fly!
I’m pretty concerned about the dulles thing, not so much as they were caught (good thing) but that it happened before in 2006. twice in any one location and so close to september 11th (yeah it was 5 years, but this crap shouldnt be happening)
honestly, I think everyone who works even remotely for an airport should have complete background checks and biometrics taken no matter what area’s of the airport they work. I also think every flier in the united states should have biometrics given to even board an aircraft. that’s a tall order for sure, I know I gave mine to get the flyclear card, it’s not all horrible but we need to make flying as safe as possible.
I shake my head at this raid, but then again..I’m pretty happy about it. just more illegal aliens gone or at least shook up for awhile.
“Good Lord. One of the workers had a security badge??? That’s really bad. And yes, it IS scary. ”
As is the way our system is wide open for food tampering. If there WERE an active Al Quida, it would be a trivial matter to cross the border, live in a sanctuary city, get a job in a food plant, and do something horrible probably never to be detected.
Nobody cares and illegal immigration and identity fraud are justified with “Do you want to pay more for a head of lettuce?”
Bingo. Comes down to that – what’s it going to cost me. The latest lame excuse is “I will hold my nose and….”.
I detest those that hold others to a standard they can’t or won’t hold themselves to
Agreed Elvis. I flew El Al once, they go through EVERYTHING. I remember them taking out my tweezers from my makeup bag and inspecting them. At the time I thought it was totally over the top, but years later, I realized how incredibly thorough that airlines is and why they have never been hijakced.
Elvis,
The idea that biometrics would deter the ill will of someone with an agenda doesn’t seem to be the answer if the ultimate goal is to carry out a mission even if it means death. It just leads to EVERYONE being controlled and if that happens, I see that as a far greater threat.
“All human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the present but neither see nor feel those of the future; and hence we often make troublesome changes without amendment, and frequently for the worse.”
” Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin
Let me just remind you. All the 911 terrorists were in the country legally.
Marie,
You are correct, that all had student visas as I recall. Did one have an expired visa though? In any event, the new standard of terrorists are fairly sophisticated and well planned. The idea that they are going to risk blowing their cover as an undocument or out of status visitor seems unlikely.
“Never” regarding El Al is not correct, even with its stellar reputation. But the only successful hijacking of El Al was decades ago, in 1968 when PFLP hijackers took an El Al jet from Rome to Algiers. There were other unsuccessful attempt with hijackers aboard who were thwarted.
The thing is El Al doesn’t fly very much. If all airlines instituted El Al-type searches, even just for international flights (much less domestic) there would be chaos. A single airline with an extremely limited schedule can afford to take as much time as it wants in its security procedures.
I would also note that Israel has this kind of sterling record of preventing terrorism only in terms of airlines, which is about the most contained situation I can imagine.
I think it is interesting that Rick and others mention illegal aliens as potential food poisoners or other terrorists. The 9/11 terrorists entered legally. I also would assume Al-Q has people legally here, including legal residents and citizens, should it wish to act. And anyway, there is no proposal to secure the border. There is only a proposal to build a fence across less than half. Should that fence survive all legal challenges from sovereign American Indian groups, environmentalists, and municipalities, it will certainly not be insurmountable in the less-than-half the border it covers. Israel can’t always effectively police even the tiniest of internal borders. Immigration reform is needed. Around 45 percent of ALL people here illegally did not illegally enter the United States.
What is biometrics?
9/11 hijackers—Mohammed Atta, Hani Hanjour came into contact with state and local police before the attacks for speeding. Atta and Hanjour were visa violators. Which means they were here illegally! So if we would enforce immigration laws 9/11 may have been prevented. Especially since Atta was the master mind of the terrorist act.
it was 1968 when all those security precautions were implemented and since then there has never been a hijacking (although the occasional missile is still shot at some planes)
the reason they dont fly all the time is because of that, their destinations are very limited. I took a trip to Israel back in the early 80’s with my folks to see the sights, it was a pretty rough time in those days and it took us about an hour or so to get onto the plane (that’s after checking in at the desk) every bag is searched, and if you are international then el al has their agents double-check everything that is already checked. They take no chances.
I dont agree about all airlines not conducting searches, I’m extremely happy when people pull me aside for extra screening, I dont think “extra” should be the operative word, I think EVERYONE should be screened. for redawn, I dont think people who get in a airplane that blows up share the former presidents sentiment. If airports/planes are a target, then they need to get locked down. the public will fall in with the program after a while. Sure it might be chaos, but no less chaos than the airlines as a whole being shut down for days (or weeks) when something bad happens. I would much rather pay the price now then to have to pay it later when least expected.
and for KG, Biometrics is the taking of retina scans and finger-prints. the flyclear system at dulles and reagan take your biometrics and it allows you faster access through the security checkpoints. it’s about 128.00 a year or something. I got mine done, saves me about 30 minutes getting through when I’m running late for a flight, etc..
If Homeland Security is so concerned with these 50 undocumented workers being terrorists, why are they being deported to Texas so quickly?
Are these individuals going to receive a fair trial in Texas or be immediately deported?
Did we deport the captured terrorists of 9/11?
I don’t sleep better at night when these financed by the Bush administration raids occur; I think of Nazi Germany and I wonder when my voice will be silenced as well.
Are we really comparing 9/11 hijackers (legal or not) to immigrants from Central America?
Fear is a great method of propaganda to use right before an election to mask the reality of the economy, healthcare, and educaation in our nation.
Elvis, I realize nuance isn’t always your forte. There were hijackings on El Al after 68, just not 100% fully successful ones. Beyond that, there were successful terrorist attacks against El Al in other ways, eg. El Al planes on the tarmac, El Al offices, etc. etc.
We were talking about El Al searches, rather than the mild extra screening that occurs here. Elvis are you saying everyone who takes any flight foreign or domestic should receive an El Al style repeated search? There is always a trade off between security and efficiency, and I guarantee you that will never be implemented because the entire system would grind to a halt. Today, much of what happens is more “security theater” (thank you Bruce Schneier) than security. I really really recommend Schneier’s blog on security issues.
As for your biometrics, personally I find that far too intrusive a thing to want to participate in. I always just factor in the extra time. But I do think it is odd to imagine that no terrorist could also achieve the expedited flyer status or would care if his/her biometrics were on file if he is going to pursue a suicide mission.
Thanks, Elvis. I am a proponent of biometrics. I just didn’t know it was called that.
Guerita–you are right that raids just yield fear, propaganda, and more scapegoating. Unless we fix this problem wholistically, we will continue down this slippery slope that, yes, can become something akin to Nazi Germany.
kgotthardt, are you a proponent of biometrics? Mandatory or voluntary? Do you think we should have a mandatory National ID card with biometric data? Right now, no American citizen has to carry any ID at all (unless driving or boarding a plane etc.). I am curious whether you wish to change that and how much of our biological data you feel the government should have on people not accused or convicted of anything.
personally I would rather have el al type searches. why not, isnt your safety worth it? I want everyone to have biometrics obtained, stick the chip on your drivers license ala’ national id card or something. your never going to stop an ultra-determined maniac from doing something, but at least every precaution your take minimizes the damage. not doing anything is stupid, assuming your are protected is even more stupid. as far as waiting extra time, well I guess you could always drive. that’s not a valid argument, customers have the right to have expeditious and secure service. If giving my biometrics get’s me quick access, I’ll take it. I only have x number of minutes on this earth and I dont want to waste them on airport security lines.
that’s a total democratic statement, democrats are always touch feely about giving security information, until you have something like 9/11 then you shut up.
oh…and leila, dont guarantee anything. as more and more failures of TSA are noted everyday it’s only a matter of time before people get more and more aggressive in security measures. pretty soon you’ll not be allowed to carry on any luggage, etc. Just think that each event that happens makes things more secure, until eventually everyone will be flying naked. sounds funny, but anything could happen.
I think a national ID that cannot be duplicated is a good idea. Assuming the government already knows who we are, what does it matter what the ID form is?
“The 9/11 terrorists entered legally”
They stayed here illegally, and used fake IDs bought in the thriving local fake ID market.
Rick,
How many of the terrorists had fake IDs? I don’t recall fake ID’s being an issue. Please refresh my memory.
Moon-howler,
http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership/2007/12/real-progress-on-real-id.html
“All but one of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers carried government-issued IDs – mostly state driver’s licenses. The hijackers found it easy to obtain these documents, often by taking advantage of an underground network that services illegal workers.
The 9/11 Commission was as dismayed as the rest of us by how easy it was for the hijackers to beat the system, and it recommended an overhaul of the way states issue such documents. Congress responded with the REAL ID Act, which sets minimum standards for states to issue IDs.”
Security of our country is paramount, I do not in any way discredit that need. However, the real issue is how do prevent another terrorist attack while NOT scapegoating latino’s into our “enemy” and still maintaining our American values of freedom. These are complicated questions with no easy answers. My issue is that so many people are focused on “speak english”, “anchor babies”, and other blah blah blah distractions, that we are not focusing on the real bad guys we need to catch!
Rick, I was curious about the basis of your blanket statement “they stayed here illegally.” My sources say only FOUR of the 20 9/11 terrorists overstayed visas and that is counting one who didn’t participate in the attack: Zacarias Moussawi. If you don’t count him, it becomes 3.
Okay then, three of four of them. I believe some of them did have fake IDs bought from the usual fake ID mills, but I don’t remember details.
kgotthardt, you wrote “I think a national ID that cannot be duplicated is a good idea. Assuming the government already knows who we are, what does it matter what the ID form is?”
First some minor points. I doubt very much any ID cannot be duplicated if one has the money. Second, the government doesn’t know who all of us are. It is possible to live one’s entire life nearly off the grid in this country. In fact this issue has come up with some elderly people on the question of voter ID. But I would agree it is a very tiny minority who do so.
That said, I asked you if it should be voluntary or mandatory and whether it should have biometric data, ie fingerprints etc, who knows, maybe DNA in future. I am unsure what you think since you didn’t answer, but maybe I should assume you favor a mandatory national ID with biometric data.
We have long traditions in this country against any form of national ID card. We share that with most countries descended from British common law. The Brits themselves are just now moving toward a national ID, but with a lot of popular protest. Also, they have turned into a prime surveillance society and I doubt most Americans would want to emulate them and have cameras tracking their every move. Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, etc. have not adapted national ID cards. This is an issue that unites civil libertarians on both the right and the left in the US. Right now, the only thing that comes close is a driver’s license, which nobody is required to have. Plus DLs are issued by states and aren’t national. In countries with national ID cards in the continental European tradition (a tradition diametrically opposed to our common law), people are supposed to carry them all the time and produce them to police if asked, with or without probable cause. If they have biometric data, that means the biometric data of completely law-abiding people will become part of a massive federal database along with all other info on you as an individual the government might choose to gather, and potentially to sell. The potential for abuse in our society is huge.
As someone who values our Bill of Rights above all else in American political culture and as someone who values our legal traditions back to the Magna Carta, I have a real problem with throwing out hundreds of years of precedent for an illusion of security.
Leia,
Ditto, hell no!!! 🙂 WE are no cattle!
Leila 🙂 sorry~
Just wait until the “voluntary” total body scans (that can see through your clothing) that are being done in some airports become mandatory. It’s a just a matter of time. It’s that sort of thing that makes me see red when I find out illegal immigrants are working in “secured” areas, while I’m having to take my shoes off.
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20080606/a_bodyscan06.art.htm
leila,
it is always you “sky is falling” types who complain about the national ID and gathering of personal data. hate to break it too you, but it’s probably happening already and you dont even know it might as well live with it and stop complaining about the bill of rights. I’m sure if the founding fathers foresaw airplanes being piloted into skyscrapers they would agree. when some other major accident like 9/11 happens I dont expect you’ll be shouting from the rooftops against national id’s or mining of personal information, etc. I voluntarily give my data to the government for the flyclear card, and I would do it without hestitation if they asked for anything else. They may have whatever they want to ensure my safety.
I was on the i-395 when the plane hit the pentagon so when the government asks me for anything, I give it too them. I dont want to relive that moment and nor should anyone else.
Emma,
How would you feel if it became mandatory? This “seeing red” …. by the way, a good color 🙂 leads me to the question of would everyone feel more secure and why?
No, it won’t make us more secure. It’s just smoke and mirrors, really, when you consider events of the last day or so. Don’t think for a minute some TSA employee won’t get their jollies from the images, that are alegedly “temporary.” The terrorists have clearly won while the sheep line up to take off their shoes, and illegal aliens are accessing the tarmacs and planes.
I guess I feel like the government can always find out anything they want about you anyway, so what’s the difference? It seems if there were a national ID, police would still have to have cause to stop you whether we used biometrics or not. Fingerprints seem like a practical, inexpensive way to make sure we know who is in our country.
As I’ve said before, it doesn’t really matter who has access to what information. It’s what we DO with that information that counts. We have problems because people misuse what they know.
Elvis,
In your response to Leila, I too was within distance of the Pentagon being hit and I still say HELL NO! 🙂
Here is my recall on BVBL right BEFORE the election of our BOCS
“# redawn said on 15 Oct 2007 at 7:29 pm:
Dear Annabel /film makers,
I have a story for you and my opinion of what is going on in my hometown of Manassas. This is my interview and comments for you.
I grew up here and moved but CAME BACK HOME.
# redawn said on 15 Oct 2007 at 7:08 pm:
I posted this under the Stafford thread.
IT is RAW( sorry for the errors of me NOT proof reading)just like the day I am talking about.
This is what a lot of people are talking about and the POINT is and has been getting lost in ways of zoning violations, who is in bed with who politically, who is real and not real.
Well, This DAY WAS REAL!
Does anyone remember? Is it so long ago?
# redawn said on 15 Oct 2007 at 6:53 pm:
It does not matter where you live, the ILLEGALS are here! They are everywhere! The REAL issue, not just local and where they reside is, WHO IS HERE? DOESN”T anyone remeber 9/11?
I do!
I lived in Fauquier at the time. I was driving into the parking garage of The City of Alexanria’s courthouse to do my job.
I was listening to Elliot in the morning, DC101. The same old hum drum and drinking my coffee trying to get motivated. I hear all of a sudden 0 BREAKING NEWS…they converse, we here that there is a plane reported to have flown into the WTC. I just took my keys out of my ignition.
I head up the elevators to Circuit Court. The clerks have the tv on and are watching. WE ALL gather around the tv and the second plane hits!
WE are all dumbfounded in so many ways, wondering what the hell is going on. after awhile everyone leaves to go about their daily duty but still talking and were going to check in from time to time to keep updated. DOES THIS TELL YOU SOMETHING? THIS IS HOW we were back then, oh nothing TOO big is going on but we will keep posted and see…..I was one of them thinking so.
I found myself standing in front of the tv, no one else around and damn if they didn’t come back on and show that the Pentagon was hit!
I am speaking only from my experience…I stood there and thought am I REALLY SEEING THIS? I felt PANIC but was more worried about calling everyone to the TV to see for themselves and that it was MY
Imagination.
Anyway, both land line and cellphones were DEAD!
Do you remember how that felt? The confusion? IS this real, it was early in the morning, asking yourself, AM I AWAKE? HOW do i get in touch with my family, friends, office?
I had a call come thru the clerks office from my office – THEY tried to get me, in case I didn’t know what was going on. I took the call and they said get the hell out of there but at the same time puzzled themselves as to what was going on.
I left with Ms. Lafayette, we work for different companies, but I remember she was there and we left following each other out of The city of Alexandria.
We had gotten on the hwy headed away back from the area towards Fairfax. All the while the cellphones and landlines are still dead and the radio stations ( ALL of them) were reporting different things, such as The Capital Building has been blown up, The white house has been blown up! There is a RUNAWAY PLANE ON THE POTOMAC!!!!!!
WE saw the smoke from the Pentagon!!!!!!!!!!!!
We lost each other on the highway and with NO communication between us ( cell phones) I headed to get my kids from school and the school was very silent and did not alarm the kids etc. they were just finding out by word of mouth as to what was going on….
ALL I ASK IS HAVE WE FORGOTTEN???????
WHY HAVE OUR BORDERS NOT BEEN SECURED? WHY ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT TRIVIAL BULL SNIT INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE SECURITY OF OUR NATION?????
THIS IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT. Does anyone remember how the air smelled and tasted different, The sky and clouds, looked different?
The feeling of being lucky FILLED WITH SUCH SORROW that you were alive and still wondering about your friends, family, neighbors? DAYS LATER???????
The acts of talking to your neighbors, the person at the store,etc….the feeling of everyone looking out for strangers and being protective, the pick up trucks flying the American flag around on the streets and highways, the bridges and overpasses with flags draped and signs hanging?
Where is everyone now??????????????????????
# Lafayette said on 15 Oct 2007 at 7:45 pm:
redawn,
Thanks. You’ve brought tears to my eyes!”
KG,
You are right that we are NOT invisible and who knows how much data is already stored, etc.
BUT my rebuttal back to you when you said this:
“As I’ve said before, it doesn’t really matter who has access to what information. It’s what we DO with that information that counts. We have problems because people misuse what they know.”
IS, it doesn’t become what WE do with it,it is what THEY/WHO does with it 🙂
We shouldn’t confuse terrorism with illegal immigration. While you might argue there is a coorelation, there is no proof of cause/effect. Trying to show cause/effect is just a way to put the blame on “illegals.”
Instead, we need to focus on what needs to be done (not necessarily in this order):
1. Secure the borders
2. Reform immigration law
3. Identify who is in our country
If we really care about national security, we will bring out troops home and keep them where we need them—HERE! All this time and money we have spent trying to track down terrorists in the middle east, we could have been beefing up our national security and fixing domestic problems.