Photo: Saurabh Das / Associated Press
The New York Times reports that Henry Cejudo the son of illegal immigrants from Mexico wins the Gold Medal for the United States in wrestling. Congratulations Henry!
The American flag landed on the scorer’s table, launched by a family member with exceptional aim. Henry Cejudo grabbed it from his coach and draped it around his body. He stood there for the longest time, fighting back tears, the son of illegal immigrants wrapped in stars and stripes.
Mando, I’m one of the people who said that my neighbors and I were unaffected by “illegal immigration” as a factor in our voting and in our everyday lives. You need to face the fact that most people in this county aren’t living in conditions similar to yours. Overcrowding and crime may be your main issues. For some of us schools, parks, libraries, traffic are higher in importance. What pulled me into the immigration debate was the heated and bigoted rhetoric on BVBL. It reminded me too much of what I saw in the South when I was growing up. The fact that you would stick that link in this thread only reinforces my opinion of the anti-immigrant lobby. All you see is Hispanics=crime even when the topic is the celebration of a man’s victory at the Olympics – a victory for our country as well as for a hard-working individual.
Mexican army frees 25 kidnapped migrants
The Associated Press
2008-08-19 16:40:58.0
VERACRUZ, Mexico –
Mexican officials say soldiers have rescued 25 Central Americans kidnapped in the Gulf coast state of Veracruz.
State police spokesman Sergio Lopez says the army raided a house in the town of Tierra Blanca and arrested one man Monday. He says authorities are looking for five other suspects.
Migrant Miguel Palacios says he and others were kidnapped after arriving at Tierra Blanca’s train station Friday. He says the men beat him in the face and body, and hit him with wooden boards. The assailants demanded each migrant pay $500 (euro340).
The Guatemalans, Hondurans and Salvadorans were heading to the United States.
Lopez says doctors were examining the men and women Tuesday, before handing them over to immigration officials for deportation.
(This version corrects that the men were kidnappers, not smugglers. )
“Do you have real numbers or just the anecdotes and stories you see in the papers YOU read?”
LOL! The papers I refer to are of the LOCAL variety. There have been 10 rapes this year up to June officially reported. Correlating that with the articles in the LOCAL paper that I posted a while back, about 8 or 9 of those were commited by illegal aliens. There’s no magic or trickery going on here. No anecdotal evidence unless you consider names and nationalities of offenders reported in newspapers anecdotal evidence.
“You need to face the fact that most people in this county aren’t living in conditions similar to yours.”
You’re wrong. Very wrong. And your implications that I live in a slum are wrong to.
“When you talk about these children the way you do it Mando, then you are drawing a cartoon of some American citizens.”
Please quote me ever using the term anchor baby or talking about children of any nationality in a derragatory way.
AGAIN, both of you are great at generalizations and stereotyping but lacking in understanding what most of us residents want and need from our elected officials.
Dis. Gust. Ting.
Emma gets another one for word choice that implies she is a eugenicist (believes whites are superior human beings and all others are closer to animals).
The assumption of white supremacy is a handicap; not an entitlement. Some would even say this assumption is an enslavement that many never fully overcome. It is not a person’s fault for being introduced to it an an early age. Many, if not most human beings are unfortunately handicapped in this way if they truly admit it.
But it is truly sad, truly, truly sad if you don’t overcome it by the time you reach adulthood and become your own person.
Mando, I thought that you had said in the past that you could afford to run away from your neighborhood’s problems, but didn’t. My neighborhood probably has had more problems than most in the mid-county area, but they’re handled the way they’ve routinely been – by calling the police or zoning. The problem makers are overwhelmingly white. I didn’t look for a resolution aimed at white people to solve any of my neighborhood’s problems. I have yet to meet anyone around my area – and I walk in several subdivisions within a few miles of my house – that voices any concerns about immigration. People will talk about the need for parks and about how bad traffic is. Overcrowding complaints are down from 3-4% of housing stock to about 1-2% depending on the jurisdiction. That simply does NOT represent the majority of PWC’s housing or concerns.
“Mando,
Illegal Immigration might not have been on our radar screen as much as it was yours but atleast we knew how to spell ‘immigration’.”
Who the F cares?? Really? So I don’t use spell check?
Mando,
I was right about what YOU read. Just the LOCAL stories that interest you. I am not saying that 9 rapes is not something to worry about but when you talk about this TREND, you make it sound that women in PWC should run whenever they see a brown face. You have 206 sex offenders living around you. What is your reaction about them in PWC? Not even 10% are Hispanic.
The fact that YOU see some crimes and not others tells me something about your biases. I am not calling you racist, just ignorant .
“Who the F cares?? Really? So I don’t use spell check?”
Mando, it gives us some ideas about how you read(getting information from the LOCAL papers)
TH, 10 rapes officially reported by the PWC police this year up to June. Those rapes are reported in the local newspapers. 8 or 9 of those were reported in the local newspapers (articles of which I linked in a past thread on this site) as being perpetrated by those not legally here. Not sure how much clearer I can get.
““Who the F cares?? Really? So I don’t use spell check?”
Mando, it gives us some ideas about how you read(getting information from the LOCAL papers)”
How I read? Really??? That’s pretty damn good.
“On another note, chalk up another rape/attempted rape for the year by a potential illegal alien”
Yeah. Let’s make sure we count all THOSE and forget the ones perpetrated by….white males, for example?
How does it feel to have the accusation aimed at “whites”? Not a good feeling, is it?
Do unto others.
“Yeah. Let’s make sure we count all THOSE and forget the ones perpetrated by….white males, for example?
How does it feel to have the accusation aimed at “whites”? Not a good feeling, is it? ”
You have to be F’in kidding me…
I give up…
Again Mando, What do you think about those sex offender living around you? Do you fear all you white neighbors? I am not talking about 8 but 206 individuals.
Mando, answer the questions and stop using the F word. I see a trend here( 3 misspellings, reading and comprehension issues, lack of words to respond to an argument, etc).
Again TH, around 90% of the rapes happening THIS YEAR were commited by illegal aliens. That is a major concern for me.
Not sure why you’re trying to changing the subject, but there are maybe 2 or 3 individuals on that registry that live within a 5 mile radius of me. I know exactly where they live. I check that registry every few months or so. Not a major concern for me.
Not only should we blame Mando for any crimes committed in the history of America by a white male, we should also denigrate the accomplishments of white males, like Michael Phelps, because other white males like Ted Bundy have turned out to be serial killers.
Mando, what else can we do to make you and the other clones realize how foolish your arguments sound?
Sure 90% of those rapes were committed by Illegal aliens. There are more than 32,000 foreign-born people in the county. So 8 out of 32,000(.025%)cannot be considered a trend and you shouldn’t worry a lot, statistically speaking. 5 sex offenders out of 206 equals 2.4 %. Think about the probabilities.
Mando, Are you still there?
Regarding double standards in our society, the way double standards in treatment exist is hard to prove as I’m sure many women who fought sexist discrimination in the workplace can attest to. Sometimes the double standard is so ingrained and innate, people look right through it until you draw their attention to it.
Here is an excellent piece from ABC’s primetime show. It’s kind of like that show where they catch child molesters except they try to catch the myriad of ways that people exercise bigotry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIVgMvuCM_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNu-WZdHzaA
In this piece 3 white kids vandalize and spray paint a car in a public park for hours. Of all the people walking by only 1 person calls the police. What’s very illuminating is that in the same time frame, totally unexpectedly, 2 calls to the police are placed from the park. But these calls are to warn the police about 2 black kids sleeping in a car.
Then they try the experiment with 3 black kids in the same park. The 3 black kids get about 10+ calls to the police.
This is the double standard that is everywhere and almost impossible to defend against. It happens all over the place. It’s when you apply for a job and you don’t get it. It’s when you try to shop for a house and don’t know the broker is steering you away from white communities. It’s when you go to bars or clubs as a young black male and they wont let you in, or they kick you out if you get just a little loud, etc.
It’s when your name is Luis Ramirez, and you’re lying on the sidewalk in Shenandoah, Pennsylvania, staring up at the night sky, dying for absolutely no reason whatsoever, and nobody cares about catching the people who did this to you.
No one is denying Cejudo the kudos he deserves for his gold medal. And I did acknowledge that I was touched by his gratitude and patriotism. But this whole thread seems to be glorifying him as the “anchor baby” who made good. Give me a break–his mom could have made some better choices–like having fewer children–that might have made his earlier life less of a struggle. And, yes, it does seem an awful lot like “breeding” when someone keeps having children beyond their ability to reasonably care for them or to keep them from dying in vans on a hot summer day, for example.
Cejudo’s accompllishment is great, no different than that of Michael Phelps, so please don’t even go there, that ‘s ridiculous. The story seems to have been posted here for nothing more than emotional manipulation so that some of you can make accusations of “eugenics” when someone objects to romanticizing illegal immigration. He has every right to see his mother as some kind of saint, and to tell his story as he sees fit, but she has made some ridiculously bad choices that most of you refuse to acknowledge.
Personal responsibility isn’t just for white people.
Mando, I am trying to think of the 8 rapists who were illegal immigrants. I can only think of 3 in the past year. I hate all rapists and want them all in jail. I don’t care about ethnicity when it comes to throwing them in jail and not letting them out.
Unfortunately, I do feel like I have to go there yet again. Michael Phelps’ mother has been talked about endlessly. He speaks of her constantly, and how things were difficult growing up. As his #1 supporter, she is featured in many news stories, and the public can’t get enough of her.
Thank goodness that Michael and his mother don’t have to face comments by those opposed to divorce, or raising a child without a father. I’m sure there are people out there who would not agree with some of the life decisions Michael or his mother have made. The same can be said of everyone. However, some people will be allowed to celebrate their families, warts and all, while others will apparently will be encouraged their families in the background.
I’m sure that if you ask Henry Cejudo about illegal immigration, and what it was like growing up as a child of illegal immigrants, he might tell you he has no romantic notions about it.
Again, go to the other blog. The admin and posters write almost daily about crimes or RUMORS of crimes committed by Latinos, Hispanics, or illegal immigrants. It is a barrage of negative images that those who post the stories feel is perfectly justified. Alanna posts one story of the son of illegal immigrants doing something good, and people are UPSET? One, count it, one story about a gold medalist, who like any other, tells the story of his upbringing, and everyone on Anti is accused of romanticizing illegal immigration?
I couldn’t help but notice the irony of ONE positive story about the child of an illegal immigrant drawing all the criticism. Does that mean we think illegal immigration is a cool thing. Noooooooo.
I think it would be fair to say that we would like to see immigration reform so that deserving people do not have to immigrate illegally. This belief is countered by people who appear to want no latinos here and who attempt to shield their real beliefs by talking about rule of law and the status of being illegal. However, if you press most of these people, they run from any discussion of making it realist to immigrate legally.
This is definitely a paradox.
Emma Said:
“Give me a break–his mom could have made some better choices–like having fewer children–that might have made his earlier life less of a struggle. And, yes, it does seem an awful lot like “breeding” when someone keeps having children beyond their ability to reasonably care for them or to keep them from dying in vans on a hot summer day, for example. ”
If I heard correctly, she is very religious and I thought people holding religious beliefs in the regard she does do not consider abortion OR birth control an option. So, I do not consider having 7 children “breeding”. I don’t think you would look at the families with 8 children that go to All Saints Catholic Church in Manassas and call them “breeders” would you? I didn’t think so.
Very religious with multiple fathers for her children–wow, she sets the bar so high for the rest of us.
I was really pleased to read Henry Cejudo’s story – here is another prominent example of someone who has succeeded in the face of adversity. It made me reflect on how fortunate people like us (children of illegal immigrants) are, since we had an opportunity to come to this country in the first place. It also makes me all the more irritated to read comments like those of Mando above. Yes, there are those who do evil, but then again, these can be people of every race and background…
I am just wondering why a story about success has turned into some people being judgemental. Here is a young man who has achieved what most people can never even dream about and we are discussing who his mother slept with? That is just mean.
People do what they have to do. Sometimes it is just a good idea not to be so frigging middle class in our thinking.
You understand the world a lot better withoug the middle class blinders.
DiversityGal, 20. August 2008, 17:57
Great post DG!
Emma,
I think that when you use offensive and inappropriate terms like ‘breeding’ you succeed in denigrating yourself. You cannot dehumanize others without dehumanizing yourself.
Human beings don’t breed.
Human beings bring newborn babies into the world so that they can pass on their love to the next generation. And each baby is a gift. When you look at a little baby, you’re looking at the future. You can only wonder what amazing things that baby will do someday…remember this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1tl0RNuvQo
Anyways, here’s a clip of one of those babies. I hope this little guy makes you rethink your position.
It’s the Republicans’ and Robert Duecaster’s worst nightmare…American Latino Babies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjpgWLn-29k
Mackie,
I LOVE Louis Armstrong! We do have a wonderful world, just not sure we have wonderful people in it.
Emma, you just can’t resist. It is also remarkable that you question the religiosity of Cejudo’s mother. On what basis? And based on what you’ve said, what on earth could be your view of Christianity? You definitely appear to be someone holding a stone.
Not that it matters, but only one article indicates he has a half brother. I have read many others (including ones in Spanish) that don’t say that. So perhaps the one article that says that is wrong. But regardless of whether Mrs. Cejudo had one husband or two, there is not the slightest indication that this woman is anything other than what her son describes. From everything I have read of her and her role in her son’s success and her family’s support, she has actually set the bar quite high.
Mackie, you sound an awful lot like a “hate bunny”–you know, siezing on one thing a person says and refusing to address the overall point. I remember WHWN’s definition well. Congratulations for joining the club!
You will only assume that she had “husbands” and not sleeping partners. You will only assume the worst of me. Can’t stand a chance against these illegals. Her canonization is complete. You’re right, she is saintly. I will try to be more like her.
Emma, I don’t know if the athlete’s mother was legally married to his father (who was also the father of some/all of his siblings). I saw references to divorce in some articles, but that may have just been some kind of colloquial usage. I am not sure what you mean by “sleeping partner.” But it sounds like something extremely temporary and not like someone in a household and someone that needed to be left.
I never called her a saint or anything similar. I said there was no reason to doubt her religious beliefs and her struggles on behalf of her children. If her son says she was so strict that she wouldn’t let him go to a wrestling practice if he missed church, I have no reason to doubt him. If all her children and outsiders talk about her non-stop labor and dedication to her household, I have no reason to doubt them either. Please state some actual evidence that contradicts that. Also, she apparently crossed the border at 14-15. She is now middle aged. You appear to want to write off her entire life. I guess she is lucky she is part of the church of Christ and not the church of Emma, since Christ taught something quite different about sin and forgiveness.
Emma, you sound so angry in your last post, as if people are disregarding your concerns. I don’t think they are. I think, though, some of us are trying to show another side of the story, one with a positive ending that we can emulate if we get the immigration laws/situation under control. My two cents.
Elena, we DO have wonderful people in our world. It’s just that the not-so-wonderful ones are usually REALLY REALLY LOUD!!!!! 🙂
Emma, I don’t see why you want to bash his mother so badly. It seems like a compelling issue for you. It sounds like the woman made many sacrifices for her family.
In my world, status has very little to do with the content of a person’s character. It is all about behavior.
I wonder if Jesse Owens or Jim Thorpe had to undergo so much family scrutiny? Probably. Their olympic fame power definitely was enhanced because of their minority status.
Emma,
My intention is not to be a hate bunny. I don’t agree with your overall point but my focus is on the term ‘breeding’ that you are using because I think it’s very offensive and I’m asking you to please stop using it.
Mackie,
Excellent reasoned response to Emma.
quedeque,
Could we have the address of your parents?
Dime
Mackie et al, my original “overall point” was that he succeeded wonderfully DESPITE his mother–despite her choice to have more children than she could reasonably care for. And I’m sure the news accounts have prettied up the circumstances a little–I have trouble taking any news accounts at face value.
And, no, kgotthardt, I am not angry. I do think that having more children than one can reasonably care for does not provide the ideal environment for children. As we saw a few years ago with the Kelly family, it can sometimes result in death when you can’t keep track of so many kids. From a religious standpoint, that is a much bigger “sin” to me than contraception could ever be, assuming you have access to prevention. I don’t know how many children are “enough” for a family, but if you can’t feed them, or you keep losing them, maybe it’s time to stop.
You are right that the term “breeding” was a little harsh, but I would have applied that equally to a large white family having more kids than they can handle. Sometimes what the head is thinking and what the fingers type aren’t always in sync. I certainly don’t see Cejudo’s family as “subhuman,” as some have suggested, and I gave him his due as a champion, if any of you bothered to read that.
Emma,
Thank you for clarifying that you did not mean to insinuate that he or his family was subhuman.
I don’t like the term. I’ve had people say it in a kidding manner, and that’s one thing, but another thing when people mean it.
I can’t even engage in this conversation it is so hostle and acrid, that any attempt at logical debate is futile. I have only one question.
Why did you choose not to post the accomplishments of Micheal Phelps along side Henry Cejudo?
Your reason is why people are so angry about this, you claim it is something special when it is not.
This is how “Class” conflicts and ethnic hatreds are perpetuated, when you make claims that only “illegal” immigrants and children of “illegal” immigrants deserve special recognition and privilege, while others equally deserving do not.
Until you can all learn to stop the ethnic-centric political views and beliefs, the acrimony will continue to increase until you start a “class” and ethnic group war.
It’s bad enough that you can’t see the difference between illegal and legal behavior.
He is legal, his MOTHER is not. What is so GREAT about that?, that it deserves special mention over Michael Phelps’s accomplishments and the accomplishments of every other athlete that you have COMPLETELY ignored?
This is why you have conflict. This is why you do not understand what COMMON HUMANITY IS. This is why you perpetuate ethnic, gender, racial and ethnic group conflict, all of you are incapable of giving this “class” Identity up and giving up your hatred of others.
Well said, Michael. Cejudo’s accomplishments are laudable, given his past, but no more special than the many other medalists who endured hardship and sacrifice to get to where they are now. It’s funny how this post calls him an “anchor baby,” a term that I thought was supposed to be demeaning. It’s hard to keep up with these things sometimes.
On that note, Emma is taking a hiatus from blogging until after Labor Day. Enjoy the waning days of summer, my most liberal but always interesting fellow bloggers, and take care, all.
–EW
I’ll relate to you an incident in my personal life that SHAPED my belief system about fairness and the law. When I was a kid, I won a state level science fair, not just in my division, but in the entire competition, first overall. The PRESS, god love them, wanted to highlight the accomplishment of just one person as being special above all others who deserved equal regognition and even more recognition based on skill, ability and performance. I had to suffer the anger and humilation of standing by “her” exhibit and “her” press caption, because the female reporter thought “she” was something special, when “she” was not. She only won one division, 20 other divisions and 20 other “individuals” did not get equal treatment under the law or in the social “humanity” of one “humanity”. I won the entire event, over 20 other divisions, yet was given none of the right to enjoy it. It taught me a great lesson… Genders, races, ethnic and religious groups will ALWAYS figure out a creative political way to make their race, gender, religion or ethnic group more impotant than all others and CANNOT think in terms of the feelings, emotions, hopes and dreams of the “individual”, in terms of “individual rights” and rights to fair and equitable treatment under the law. There is only “legal” and “illegal” separating good and bad.
This is the problem with all of you, and the problem with this post.
Michael, are you telling me that not one single other reporter/member of the press covered your achievemnet? No notice was made of your award?
I think you should ponder your statements that everyone except you has a problem. Many of us just might not buy your belief system. It’s unrealistic to expect people to drop their ethnic, religious, racial heritages. People are free to associate with whom they please and to lobby for whatever they please.
None.
See my post on the killing of the young man in Shenandoah, PA. Maybe then you will understand why your misunderstanding of “freedom of association”, does not mean freedom to politically align along gender, ethnic, religious, and racial political lines of power in a DEMOCRACY, where the power is only in the individual. In a Democracy people GIVE UP ethnic, gender, racial, and religious group citi-state political IDENTITY to preserve the common peace. Everything else you believe to the contrary leads to conflict and war in the rest of the world, because you cannot give up this need to “associate” only with a “special” gender, racial, ethnic, or religious group for power and financial wealth, rather than re-nounce this group-centric political belief system and associate only as individuals, one humanity, one nationality and one law.
This is your problem. This is why you (those who believe this way) have conflict and hatred.
Michael,
It sounds as though you will start singing John Lennon’s “Imagine” quite soon. I love that song, and its ideals. However, what you are suggesting would mean that in giving up the alignments that well-respected and educated anthropological/ sociological/ psychological scholars deem essential and natural to humans, political boundaries would cease to exist (towns, states, countries).
There are countless definitions of democracy; not just the Michael version. Even in ancient times, Greeks had a gender separation in their democracy. Am I wrong in thinking that only males could vote? Democracies also set themselves apart from other groups politically, no?
You must be at an ultimately enlightened, evolved place in your life, Michael. I think it is great that you wish the world peace with this theory of banishing all group identity, but I also think it is time that you come back down to earth a little. You seem like a smart, thoughtful solution-focused person, and I would like to see you come up with some more realistic solutions for the problems you point out. It also seems quite arrogant to ask people to give up their sense of belonging for your theories.
I have seen you write before on this blog and the other about the slights you have experienced in life, either personally or through friends(?). It seems to me that you are upset about imbalances in the “system” that favor women, especially. Sometimes, I have agreed with you, and sometimes, I have thought the imbalances you perceived were WAY off in left field.
Group identity is something that is a particular sticking point for you; you are passionate about its problems, I can tell. However, I just wish that you could see some of the wonderful things that come from belonging and group identity. I truly wish that for you.
As for the Michael Phelps thing…the reason I kept bringing the man up should be obvious. I can’t believe that Anti is being blasted for telling the story of someone who was largely ignored by news media like Henry Cejudo. Are you seriously worried that Michael Phelps is not getting his due attention? I do not think he needs more recognition on Anti; I believe that everyone knows his story without Alanna choosing to feature it. NBC, Sports Illustrated, and Wheaties are all over that!
This is a blog that mainly talks about immigration issues, right? It was started to counter the negative images portrayed on the other site if I am correct. This story is absolutely relevant to what we talk about on this site.
You may think that some on Anti have a problem. That’s your opinion…fine. My opinion is that you do not have the right to tell me or anyone else here that we have to choose between peace and celebrating/advocating for the groups of people we love.
Michael, your account of your disappointment as a kid explains a lot, as did your railing (elsewhere) against a certain billboard in PWC, and your unusual and erroneous beliefs about the LWV. But it doesn’t make your pronouncements on democracy any more convincing or any more in line with history or theory. You seem to think that even though some groups in the United States have been deprived, historically, of rights because of their race, ethnicity, gender, etc., it was wrong of them to mobilize to fight against that.