Greg L said on 19 Aug 2008 at 12:37 am:
Monticup, I understand your frustration and outrage, but try to refrain from characterizing all illegal aliens as nascent criminals. Some are, but it would appear that they’re a pretty small minority. With somewhere around 12 million illegal aliens in the US by conservative estimates, if they were all predisposed to criminal behavior we’d be far worse off than we are. There are about 300,000 illegal aliens in Virginia, and we certainly don’t have a crime explosion that such numbers would create.A big problem however is that of those 300,000 we have no idea who they are. Among them are certainly some of the worst folks you could imagine from both a crime and a national security perspective. In order to ensure these bad actors aren’t present, the lawful deportation of as many illegal aliens as possible is a way to ensure we remove those who pose the most significant threat as well as (perhaps more significantly) discourage other bad actors from unlawfully entering the country.
If we cannot control our borders, we are no longer a sovereign nation, and our democracy is in grave peril. As we seek to do so, we have to be certain that what we ask for is reasoned and responsible. We can’t do that very well by saying all illegal aliens are invariably rapists and murderers without undermining our arguments. There’s enough provable and unambiguous data out there to support our arguments without stretching so much, and in ways that can become counterproductive.
We have to maintain a higher standard than anyone else, and while it might not be fair, that’s just how it is. Let’s do our best to be better than those arguing the other side.
Acutally, it’s almost refreshing to see Mr. Leteicq make this kind of statement. It’s in sharp contrast to his infamous ‘Dog for Sale’ thread. Apparently he is coming to the realization that in order to be considered a rational voice in the immigration debate he can no longer permit the previously employed rhetoric and mischaracterizations of all ‘illegals’ as being rapists, murderers etc… To what extent this transformation is a result of our efforts might never be known but I feel confident that we have contributed to forming the terms of this discussion. Congratulations to everyone for their continued participation.
Campaign season is quickly approaching and unless Greg wants to be viewed as a total whackjob and a liability to the Republican party at a time when it needs Hispanics’ votes, he needs to tone it down. I’m sure he’ll be glad to oblige though when the need for a little Swift-boating or hate-mongering is deemed necesssary to put the usual last minute scare into the “Freedom Fry” voters. (I still have to laugh at that description, WHWN.) I don’t think he’s had an elemental change in personality. I don’t know many “normal” people that have said the crapola he’s said or done the sneaky manuevers and bragged about it. Nope – the local Republican Party found their low-life in GL.
Greg has completely and forever damaged any credibility that he ever had. His ‘Dog-for-Sale’ post will be a constant reminder of his character. People have a long memory and that blunder will follow him around forever. It was another example of a huge miscalculation on his part and he’s unable to blame it on some anonymous poster.
Perhaps his motivation comes from when “The Order of the Red Circle” became “The Order of the Red Spot.
LOL! Nice attempt Allana, but without its boogeyman, this blog would cease to be. Now back to business as usual.
Mando-
Does that mean the boogeyman will be moving to another jurisdication to trash it’s reputation? Please, get him out of PWC.
Mando,
I’ll give you this – without the nonsense of Mr. Letiecq and cohorts I wouldn’t have had to start this blog but I think that’s perfectly clear to everyone, right?
Interesting change in dialog from Greg. I guess I am going to have to agree with Censored. He has something to gain. I wish I could believe otherwise but at this point that would be difficult.
This is what I posted after I read Greg’s thread “Another Illegal Alien Murder” and I got beat up pretty bad over there. Still getting beat up today.
There is little if any evidence of a proclivity to crime among unauthorized immigrants. To make such a claim based on a some horrific incident, or even on the basis of multiple criminal incidents, doesn’t amount to proof of anything – other than the potential of human beings to do evil.
That doesn’t mean that our immigration system doesn’t need to be fixed. Our immigration laws should bar criminals from entering the country in the first place or deport immigrants convicted of serious offenses after admission. ICE has done little to hold up its end of the bargain i.e. ICE detainers. Let’s not confuse the two issues. Stigmatizing unauthorized immigrants, the vast majority of whom are hard-working and law-abiding, doesn’t solve urban crime problems; nor does it address the flaws in our immigration system.
When legal avenues to migrate are limited, when native birth rates are low and economies are healthy, illegal immigration will grow. The cure for the problem of illegal immigration is to establish a realistic immigration system and to bring the undocumented population out of the shadows through some type of earned legalization program. Thumping up irrational fears of criminal behavior and turning the undocumented into pariahs are not in our nation’s or community’s best interest.
I went on to say in another post that I felt like the first step to solving this problem would be to seal the borders and the ports. For some reason that did not go over too well either.
I just decided my input was not welcome there. That I was dismissed as being dumb and naive. There is no opportunity for discussion or expression of a different view. I do not know why I bother. I must be nuts to even visit that site.
Marie, you got the usual response from the usual whiners…er, posters.
Mando, I don’t think this blog would cease to be without GL. Alanna and Elena have done a good job of presenting information about different immigration issues. That’s much more informative than hearing the following ad infinitum, courtesy of the dark side’s denizens – “illegal is illegal”, “what part of illegal don’t you understand”, “when they self-deport”, or if they don’t self-deport – “deport them all”, “they’re criminals – they crossed the border illegally; once they’ve committed one crime, they’ll continue”.
Marie-
Don’t waste your “pearls of wisdom” on them. They’ll get censored, if not deleted all together. Even though I believe we all want secure borders. You are not one of the “army” and therefore you are the “enemy”. Stay away from the dark screen it’s hazardous to your mental health. 😉
Poor Monticup, Greg has been posting these kinds of negative stories in hopes of illiciting responses from the “usuals”, and Monticup, along with others, are more than happy to oblige with racial and prejudicial comments about latino’s. Now, deciding that he must appear more rational, Greg pulls the carpet out from under them and chides them for not maintaining the “high standard” that the the immigration debate requires.
Greg states “as we seek to do so, we have to be certain that what we ask for is reasoned and responsible. ” Isn’t that language we have used consistently here, reasonable and responsible solutions that encompass the fiscal AND human impacts of any reform to our immigration policy? And for that we get labeled illegal alien apologists, fat broads, and elitists!
What was Monticup’s response to Greg?
Mando,
When people come here to debate the issue of illegal immigration, they are not villified. It is only when people come here, faceless and nameless, calling hispanics invaders, cockroaches, prone to criminality, etc etc, that they are reprimanded. I find it interesting, with all the non partisan research I have done, that I have heard very little discussion regarding the clear facts. Save the Middle Class commented briefly, and he/she was not villified or called racist or any other name. There is a war on the middle class, but it isn’t being waged by latino immigrants.
Elena, nice post.
Monticup is MUTE. Not word one.
Thanks Chris 🙂
Hmmm, interesting, Monticup must be wondering if he is still on the right site!
Mando states the obvious. When has that ever been denied?
The name should be a big hint. ANTI-bvbl.
Mixed feelings here. My initial reaction was one of relief. Perhaps the politicized hatred that has been degrading this county for so long will be less palpable if the infamous blog that has already seen its readership stolen also scales back on the rhetoric. I can only imagine the confusion of the remaining Gospel Greg Clones. One of them is signing up for speech therapy to learn how to speak of ethbic people WITHOUT the slurs and bigoted villifications. The other will soon start his own blog where hate reigns supreme now that Gospel Greg has gone soft on him.
Seriously, I am glad if Greg has a genuine change of heart. It really sounds as if he is accepting defeat and trying to prepare his flock for inevitable immigration reform complete with “amnesty.” As others have pointed out, he needs to shift to the left to fall in line with McCain. But I think it’s too soon for the most notorious right wing extremist in the region to come back to the fold and make any sort of contribution to the race this year. Plainly speaking, he hurts McCain no matter what he does. He has dicredited and disgraced himself and alienated the vast majority of voters who know who he is. The only voters he has any influence over are of the Freedom Fry variety, meaning their vote for McCain has already been assured by an email rumor or any number of propaganda outlets, many of which have more credibility than Greg.
Jorge Pollo
Thanks. You are right. I need to say away from the dark screen.
Vacation over. I see there was a big armed robbery over in ‘hoodbridge. I guess GL will be going nuts trying to post the bad news so people can be ‘sick and tired of this behavior.’ I don’t know what they will do once they find out the perp has a NON-Hispanic last name.
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/police_negotiating_with_man_barricaded_in_house/19940/
Marie, people calling you “dumb” and “naive” is definitely disrespectful. But I also saw that several were quite respectful, even though they disagreed with you. The same thing happens here all the time.
And if you don’t like “the dark screen,” you can click on the “switch colors” link at the top 🙂
To my knowledge none of those who influence Greg, and who Greg influences are surprised at this latest comment from him. He is right on track, as are those who advocate for this position.
I will post what I have been banned from posting over at the other blog, when posters were talking about how Anti-BVBL was attacking, disrespectful, and intolerant of opposing views:
“You should read some recent threads on the Anti blog. There are several people over there who have apologized when they have offended some regular posters over here. There are some who have made mildly inflammatory comments, and then have said they were sorry when someone expressed their concern. There are people who have admitted when they find they are wrong about a claim or piece of data. They will tell posters of obviously different opinions when they think they have made valid points.
Can the same be said of this blog [bvbl]? You will find that people on Anti will strongly disagree with your opinions, but most won’t attack you. If it does happen, recent evidence indicates that you will get a sincere apology rather than the oh-so-hilarious standard false apology you will get here [bvbl].
I have not made attacking comments on this blog [bvbl]. My opinions, while distasteful to most here, are not disrespectful; you can check the archives and see. Still, my comments have been removed several times, and I have been banned before. I am not even sure that this message will make it through…
-Diversity Gal”
…and it did not make it through. Oh well:(
I have had a few instances on both blogs where I would type a lengthy post, hit the “submit” key and it disappears, never to be seen again, and the screen scrolls to the top. I don’t know if it is a glitch in the software or whether I temporarily lost my connection or what. Nothing inflammatory, just talk, and I know it has happened to other people as well. I also know that when I thought I was censored, I found I had posted on a different thread than I had thought. It’s possible that you weren’t “censored” at all.
Actually, DiversityGal I’m surprised you lasted as long as you did. I credit this as well to the existence of Anti, no longer is he the only show in town and he has had to make some adjustments with the comments he allows to post. There have been many such instances where he has allowed comments which I guarantee would never have been allowed before.
Anybody else banned of late?
Honestly, I don’t understand why he doesn’t permit an open discussion of this issue? What does he have to lose? maybe the debate?
Emma,
He’ll readily tell you that he censors, just ask.
Well, it is his blog, just like this is your blog and you can choose to define it–and the rules–as you see fit. I’ve been reminded of that at least a couple times by posters here. What is the difference?
I have said that I give credit where credit is due. I have also explained my disappointment with HSM and BVBL and my journey to why I joined HSM and left. I have also expressed the frustration that both should have been distinguishable from the very BEGGINING and found MYSELF defending the difference.
With that said, I will play devil’s advocate or hopeful that the good that I have seen is being reflected and can admit when wrong. Do we knock a chance at someone trying to say they are sorry? Do we look at it as another political ploy? I guess the answer will be told in time.
Chris,
I am PROUD of you for taking a stand and talking about vigilantism. I have shared my concerns about the 7-11 stalk/or exercising of constitutional rights. ( the birth of the debate)
I am looking at ALL of this from a different perspective. I see the threat of losing the right of “guilty until proven innocent”.
Anyway, Mackie, I have a video for you what do you think this is all about ? To change the subject OR does it? LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reCpV1YHuYs
Correction 🙂
I knew I could post without a flub.Flub meaning a genetic disposition of a fat broad LOL!
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY! I guess I hung myself…..LOL
I am left handed and sometimes get things reversed. ( go left no I mean that LEFT-ask anyone who drives/rides with me:) )
emma,
they did censor here, just not now..honestly they did in the past but recently other than a few edits to my posts they remained. I’m still testing the waters however 🙂
Emma,
I am banned. One of my comments in a thread on the other blog was posted and counted in the response number, and then the response number later was reduced by one. That told me something was awry.
When you are banned, you can still see your comment on YOUR computer, but it cannot be seen by other computers. It is also not counted in the response number. I have tried to post several times after my initial clue, to no avail.
anyone that has been or wants to debate censorship or what ever disagreement, this song comes to mind 🙂
WARNING: bad words ;(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkzfsTyqAQ
DiversityGal,
Take this advise I left for Marie
Marie-
Don’t waste your “pearls of wisdom” on them. They’ll get censored, if not deleted all together. Even though I believe we all want secure borders. You are not one of the “army” and therefore you are the “enemy”. Stay away from the dark screen it’s hazardous to your mental health. 😉
It does seem strange that Greg L. censors and bans people so frequently. It is like an admission of cowardice. What is he afraid of? If his position is so strong, if it represents a majority opinion, then why not allow a full run of opposing views on his site? Instead, his blog is less and less visited and his disciples can’t resist coming here. Even they get bored preaching to the choir. If I were Greg, I would man up and invite all comers to post. If he is worried about civility, his opponents tend to be more polite than his posters anyway.
People are banned on bvbl if they continue to not agree with the management. Rather than being honest with the person, some people post and do not realize they cannot be seen. This is a big joke from what I have heard.
Yes, it is his blog. He can do what he wants. And he does.
There is simply no comparison between the 2 blogs. When people are banned here, they know it. Censorship only happened twice and it dealt with personal information. Alanna has spelled it out. Some of you still chose not to listen to her.
Occassionally posts disappear. Don’t read anything into it. You will be told if you are being censored or put into moderation.
…except I think one of Gregs aliases is Monticup. Greg is a chameleon.
Elvis,
Your in moderation which is slightly different than outright censorship. In your case we have replaced expletives for a cleaner version but that’s it. If I recall correctly you have received two warnings from us because of pretty vicious personal attacks but even those we have allowed to post.
Moon-howler,
HOWLLLLLLLLLLL, I hear that it is a full moon tonight
Anyway, as far as the IP address being brought to light- I want to remind whoever was concerned about that ( in COMPARISON to BVBL) it was done over there too- last year.
I am NOT computer savvy, so I don’t know the harm BUT think it is bad practice because I like to fight with my big brother 🙂
Emma,
Of course he can do whatever he wants with his blog. I just wouldn’t waste my time & energy denying his censorship when he’ll readily admit to it, that’s all I said.
I don’t think Greg complained about the IP address, if I recall correctly it was es_la_ley. Anyways, I suppose it was bad form, I’m still learning blog etiquette.
Alanna,
You are correct as to who complained about the IP address.( MAYBE one other person? not sure) Anyway,I would be freaked out a bit from it being exposed BUT as I said I am NOT computer savvy enough to know the harm ( my PERSONAL FLAW, is kick ass and take names later 🙂 soooooooooooo kidding- just being cautious )
I miss or better term admired/semi-trusted, es_la_ley, and if they felt concern, I take note. All I wanted to do was point out that exposing someone’s IP address in the battle of anti bvbl and bvbl has already been done on bvbl. So what gives? not sure….I just tell the truth 🙂
Off to bed and I leave EVERYONE with this thought/song 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFP80LCtA0
Red Dawn-still not sure why I have problems posting videos/links 🙂
Red Dawn, I did not comment on the IP address.
Those who do not like that it was done will get over it or they can not blog here. There was a reason for doing it. Actually it was a rent-a-IP. The mock outrage was for effect.
Wait.
So Greg IS Monticup???? He scolded HIMSELF for using bigotry to make his political case?
What in the heck is the point of that!?!?
Moon-howler,
NO, YOU didn’t mention the IP address. I was ADDING to your comment about other concerns.( the list) Sorry for the confusion , if it was not clear. Howlllllllll 🙂
NGL
Dark screeners are often known to talk to and answer themselves. They use several monikers to make themselves look sane.
Good post however I believe that Monitcup is one of Gregs many aliases.
I doubt he found “religion” even for an election. Unless someone told him to.
Oh how interesting…
Looking back at the “Another Illegal Alien Murder” thread on the other blog, I noticed some things. Marie was posting about her viewpoints not being tolerated on that site, and several people started dogging Anti-bvbl. Around 8:00 pm, I attempted to post (see prior comment), but was censored. Around 10:00 pm, monitcup posted his nasty generalizations, and then Greg posted his remarks.
I think it’s quite interesting how the kinder, gentler Greg appeared after these posts. I truly hope that he actually does feel those generalizations were wrong, but I have this gut feeling that he wanted to appear level-headed before anyone else pointed out the differences between his site and this one.
“Wait.
So Greg IS Monticup???? He scolded HIMSELF for using bigotry to make his political case?
What in the heck is the point of that!?!?”
GL has some “voices in his head” as he has said about me. Fortunately, my voices are pretty consistent and honest. And I don’t talk to myself like Schmiegal in Lord of the Rings as he does (“for US Precious!”)
There was Patriot and a few others that I assumed were Greg. There are some here that I also assume are Greg.
The opinion may vary, but the cadence, the focus, the dismissal of others the intolerance regardless of which side…. he is careful not to use similar phraseology, however, cadence is like handwriting.
Look around. This is his life. This is all about control with him. Control and coercion….
Re-reading this site I see where many are hoping Greg has “come to his senses” or doesn’t want anti bashing him.
Reminds me of the time my Grandmother explained to my father that Lawrence Welk had to play modern music to keep the younger audience interested in the program.
Pllluueezzzeeee….
I am with you KG. Your voices work for most thinking people. His voices are of the David Koresch, Jim Jones variety.
Having once been quite active in the territory Greg Letiecq currently occupies (i.e., the “anti-illegal immigration” territory), I can tell you that there is often a broad spectrum of temperament that is experienced as a leading “anti-illegal immigration” activist. Along with the many moments of expressing negativity and vileness, there are momentary flashes of kinder and gentler expressions. For example, at my own rally last year when I and my fellow speakers were spewing fiery rhetoric in regards to “illegal aliens”, a couple of us, myself included, would occasionaly do a 180 and change temperament and try our best to recognize certain basic realities. Such as “not all illegal aliens are criminals”. “They are human beings too.” Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
And I suppose the reason for such emotional vascilation is quite simply due to conscience, especially when observing others whose express viciousness toward immigrating people and other races which reaches excessively obscene and vile levels (this occurred at my rally, in fact). Anyone with a conscience, even on the “anti-illegal immigration” side, would be motivated to attempt creating balance and inserting reason into the mix.
But as for Greg Letiecq’s comments, they don’t even come close to reflecting even the remotest change of heart. All he did was express a truism: not all undocumented immigrants commit terrible crimes. What he had, as far as I could detect, was not a moment of conscience, but a moment of rationality. Nothing more.
And everyone should take a closer look at the second, third, and fourth paragraphs of his post to see that the standard Greg Letiecq is still on stage.
While it’s positive to be encouraged by Greg’s brief moment of rationality, I caution everyone when regarding his remarks not to invest too heavily in the sentiment of his words. It was a mere moment.