Barak Obama has apparently picked Senator Joe Biden as his VP.
126 Thoughts to “Obama picks Biden for running mate”
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- 9500Liberty
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- Blue Virginia
- Citizen Tom
- Counts of Monte Cristo. The
- Derecho, The
- Dixie Pig, The
- My Side of the Fence
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- New Dominion Project
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- NovaTownHall Blog
- One Libertarians's Point of View by Al Alborn
- Pete Candland's Blog
- Potomac Local
- Prince William Muckraker
- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
- Townhall
- VEA Daily Reports
- VivianPaige
- WDGolden.com
- You, Me and the Lamp Post
I guess Biden is the guy. I was thrown off track because earlier in the week he claimed he was ‘not the guy’. Well, let’s see what the pundits have to say…
Having been widowed myself, I admire anyone who survives the death of a spouse (and his daughter).
Sorry to go off topic, but I wanted to remind anyone who is interested to come see “Farmingville,” the featured film in the “Crossing the Line” Immigration film series at GMU’s Prince William campus (Verizon Auditorium) at 7:30 pm tonight. From the trailer, it looks close to the type of documentary that 9500 Liberty is, and should lead into a good discussion afterwards.
As you might have guessed, I am an Obama fan. However, I don’t know how his choice of Biden will affect his candidacy. Biden is from a small state (3 electoral votes) that has voted Democrat in the last four presidential elections.
Biden does have the foreign policy experience that was needed for the ticket, but he has a documented history of critizing Obama for his lack of experience. I was really hoping that Obama would find someone with a military background for his VP choice, like Jim Webb or someone else. However, Biden does have a son with the National Guard, who will be deployed to Iraq this fall; his war and military interests are about to become very personal.
Obama also had the ability to say he did not vote for the war, and that John McCain did vote for it, and has supported it. Unfortunately, Biden voted for the war, too. Obama’s argument now loses its punch, and it will be interesting to see how much he uses it in the future.
Don’t get me wrong, while I certainly don’t agree with Biden about all he has said and done in the past, he also has a lot of strong qualities as a running mate. He has a very solid history of voting with the Democratic party, which of course, I like:) I will still vote for the Obama-Biden ticket, and am still a strong supporter.
I will leave you with an interesting editorial om John McCain I found from Dr. Phillip Butler (former POW in Vietnam) of Veterans for Peace:
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html
I’ll never vote for a pro-Amnesty candidate. My vote this year goes to Baba Booey.
Rick,
I agree with voting for a pro-Amnesty cadidate. However, the sad reality is these candidates will support amnesty in some form. I said many months ago I will write-in my pick’s name at the polls.
Rick and Chris, define amnesty. Do you consider a $5000 fine amnesty? To me, amnesty means like taking your over-due library books back and nothing happens to you. No punishment. I am not even sure what McCain’s and Obama’s view on illegal immigration is. I need to know why they are being considered ‘pro-amnesty.’
NGL, I think anyone who has over 30 years in the senate has some foreign relations experience. Plus all the candidates talked smack about each other during the primary season. Having said that, I was not totally pleased with Biden as a choice for vp either. Perhaps he looked at the total package. Biden is one sharp cookie and can be rather biting when it is called upon.
I just went to the Obama site and copied his Immigration Plan. I do not understand why this is being called ‘Amnesty.’
There is more under issues, I will provide the link.
Barack Obama’s Plan
Create Secure Borders
Obama wants to preserve the integrity of our borders. He supports additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.
Improve Our Immigration System
Obama believes we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.
Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally
Obama will remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.
Bring People Out of the Shadows
Obama supports a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.
Work with Mexico
Obama believes we need to do more to promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/
———————————————————————————————–
Someone else can provide McCain’s immigration policy. I won’t support him because of character issues. All the hoopla about Clinton and the white house…ahem…cough..(whispering) bj. How is that worse than leaving your accident disfigured wife and mother of your children for some good looking millionairess 17 years your junior? Sorry, even after reading the ‘decent’ version of that story, I think he is a cad.
“Rick and Chris, define amnesty. Do you consider a $5000 fine amnesty?”
Yes. Anything that gives a leg up to people for breaking the law, I am going to label Amnesty. We could get into a semantic definition about what Amnesty is, but I don’t see the point to it.
Anything that gives any advantage, even slight towards citizenship for breaking in here and squatting over people who are following the law trying to get in here, I oppose. The only thing I favor is to say, if you go home and apply from there it won’t be held against you that you broke our laws here. That might technically be amnesty, but I wouldn’t oppose it.
No reward for lawbreaking, that’s my bottom line.
5 grand is chicken feed. These people pay up to several times that to sneak in here. They take that risk because they can make more money later. They can make the money because they pay small rent living in flophouses and because our social services help increase standard of living for those in pobverty.
“Bring People Out of the Shadows
Obama supports a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.”
Back of the line????? HALF OF MEXICO wants in according to a poll from a couple of years ago. They’re going to get behind everyone else who wants in? Or we’re going to expedite all existing applications, to let the whole line in? This makes no sense. Obama, like McCain and like Bush, is a b***s*** merchant.
“Work with Mexico
Obama believes we need to do more to promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration. ”
Such as? What? Give them more money instead of spending it on our own people and economic development? This is boilerplate baloney and again I say Obama, like McCain, is a ******** merchant to be trusted as far as you can spit.
I hold both canidates and both parties in deep contempt and will work hard to undermine their agendas.
Barak Obama made the right choice in my mind. Joe Biden is credible when it comes to foreign policy, Obama needs that experience. He can also be a tough hitter. Biden’s problem is that he steps on his “tongue” too much. Personally, I think it shows the kind of character Barak has that he would pick someone with an opposing view on the war. It may have been initially Biden was for the war, but fairly quicky, he became outspoken regarding its ensuing mess. Also, Biden will appeal to many people in the middle, especially moderate republicans. I think that Hillary probably did not want VP, she may have worked something else out with Barak, maybe supreme court if he wins? This election will take more than just people opposed to the Iraq war. Finally, there seems to be a tentative deal to withdraw American troops by 2011.
I am wondering too, what is amnesty? The reality is that we will not deport 12 million people nor will they leave with a goal of attrition. There is an economic impact if all these people leave and we must face the reality of our labor shortage. We have seen what happens, just in PWC, when your measures alienate an entire sect of people, imagaine what will happen on a national level. There are people dying in detention centers because their status has not been properly adjusted. That is unacceptable to me, unacceptable. The last story I posted was an outrage and surely should compel most people to want full comprehensive immigraton reform .
MH,
When I was a make-up artist, I had the opportunity to meet John McCain several times. It was an interesting job because I think it afforded me an opportunity to see people for their “real” selves, behind the camera and no publicity. John McCain was always courteous, kind, and friendly to his staff. He was also very kind to me, did not treat me like a peon, and let me tell you, many people who sat in that chair would treat the make-up artist like a non person. What happened with his first marriage is not a proud moment for him, but that is not why I won’t vote for him. His straight talk express has become not so straight, and his desire to win win the presidency I believe is clouding his better judgement. If he picks Romney for VP, that will solidify my perception of him.
“The reality is that we will not deport 12 million people nor will they leave with a goal of attrition. ” Says who? Why not give it a shot?
“There is an economic impact if all these people leave and we must face the reality of our labor shortage.” Let’s face the reality of wage reduction and of economic disparity and of our dwindling ability to maintain a social safety net, of school budgets in the red and closing hospitals.
Believe it or not I met McCain once in an airport 3 or 4 years ago and exchanged a greeting. He looked SO OLD, so feeble, so weak, as if a poke could collapse him to dust. I’m not convinced it was really him, but if it was he looks incredibly different without makeup and lighting. Supposedly it was him, getting onto a plane with no special treatment or handlers, chatting with lobbyists on his cell phone in the walkway to the plane, and taking the terminal shuttle back again with no handlers while everyone around him whispered “Is that John McCain”?
I wish I could meet him again, he would get an earful this time.
“We have seen what happens, just in PWC, when your measures alienate an entire sect of people, imagaine what will happen on a national level. ”
You REALLY don’t think Americans can dig ditches for Verizon, clean floors as janitors, etc? You really think we’ll fall flat without these people? I’ll take that trade-off. Let Mexico, El Salvador, etc. have the benefit of their citizens.
What has happened in PWC is property is worth what it was 5 years ago, and standard of living is returning to what it was 5 years ago, and more people are happy about it than unhappy.
Make-up on camera only really helps people look more like themselvs, not necessarily like a different person. Well, except women, they can really pile on the make-up. The lights are very hot and make people sweat, they also make your skin look very washed out. So, for men, I would say make-up just allows them to look more like themselves, more like they are well rested and not tired or pale. Granted, it has been many years since I was a make-up artist, so ten years can take its toll, but back then McCain certainly had alot of energy.
Also Rick, from the research I have done, undocumented immigrants can have an effect on the lowest wage earners, that is correct, but it appears as though that does equalize within time.
Rick,
I understand you are angry but somewhere the reality of the situation has to kick in. As Elena says, we cannot deport 12-20 million people. It will not happen. You have to have a workable solution, realistically, for the people who are here.
We cannot deport that many people without it costing a fortune and us looking like Joseph Stalin and (gasp) Hitler, all rolled into one. So what would you do with them?
I ate my own words and looked at the McCain site. He has a plan too, a rather comprehensive plan.
Rick, I think you need to choose another word than ‘amnesty.’ Amnesty has a standard definition, so it isn’t a matter of semantics. As for $5000 being chicken feed, you are forgetting that almost half the immigrants here out of status didn’t steal into our country. They came here legally and forgot to go home, thus putting them out of status. I honestly do not know how you would arrange things differently than Obama or McCain.
McCain’s website:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm
Rick, many Americans, especially the younger ones, do not feel they should have to dig ditches. If you are a high school graduate especially, and the majority of young kids have graduated from high school if they are over 18, you feel ditch digging and that sort of work is beneath you.
Additionally, much of our housing inflation came from false prop-ups. The huge over-development in the western part of the county puffed us all up. Additionally, the many folks who made good money in that industry bought houses in the lower and mid price ranges. Credit was available and people bid on houses. Often people got more than what they were asking because of bidding wars.
So, you can look at it from the perspective that your house is only worth what it was worth 5 years ago…or …you can look at it from the perspective that your house is back to the value it should be. The reality of housing is that a house is only worth what you sell it for. Everything else is illusion and bluster.
Rick, $5000 is hardly chicken feed. Also that figure is actually far higher than the average payment to coyotes/smugglers for Mexicans who cross that way, although they may or may not demand more money later. Most money appears to be made on volume. Here is a 2007 comment from the head of the ICE office in Phoenix (source CNN).
“Agent Pena says these smugglers fight each other over “loads” of immigrants mostly because there’s big money at stake. Coyotes charge Mexican nationals a $1,500 smuggling fee, according to law enforcement officials and immigration activists. For people south of Mexico, the fee ranges from $3,000 to $5,000. Of course, coyotes will often “renegotiate” later, and that’s when things can get really ugly.”
However 45 percent of people out of legal status entered the country legally, so in their cases the payments don’t relate to the question at all.
Rick,
About deporting 12 million people (and most of the folks on your side of the fence claim far more than that figure), I think it is patently obvious that won’t happen. There isn’t the money, manpower, or will for it to happen. Attrition will obviously happen for some, but I doubt for many as long as they can find work or have other ties here. Plus about 22 percent of illegal immigrants do not come from Latin America (much less Mexico) and would have a huge expense paying their own way home, if they even wanted to. They will go farther underground. The famous deportation exercise during the Eisenhower administration, you know the one with the racist name, was only partially successful even with a far, far smaller number of people and a very dedicated effort.
Biden does not stop talking!! I am unsure about what I will do in November, but it is clear to me that Obama was not looking for a yes man or window dressing….. I do like that.
Rick,
Finally about the labor market. You can’t speak of it in monolithic terms. Different regions, different sectors, have different needs. Northern Virginia is a very affluent area and no, I don’t see your finding sufficient labor for certain jobs here. I particularly don’t see it considering the lack of sufficient public transportation networks to easily bring lower-income people to where jobs are in the suburbs, particularly night jobs. The high gas prices only accentuate that.
If you want to see a bit of this in action on a small scale, go to Dulles airport one night and see the competition for the SINGLE Metro bus that goes to DC once an hour for $3.10. Once an hour only up to a certain hour, I should note. I hope regardless of what happens with immigration that a vast increase in public transportation is funded to bring DC workers to jobs.
For some sectors, such as agriculture, I don’t think you will find a total American workforce period, no, not unless total catastrophe hits this economy. The harvesting workforce has to be mobile and the work is just not something Americans have done for decades. That’s why along with illegal immigrants, fruit and vegetable producers have used the government’s guest worker program despite its difficulties. There are other jobs, such as meatpacking, that can’t attract Americans easily. Working in meatpacking is among the most dangerous, unpleasant jobs around. I have read of factories that have been busted, increased their wages, and attracted Americans only to have them give up in a matter of weeks. The record-breaking ICE bust recently at Agriprocessors in Postville, Iowa, didn’t result in Americans taking those jobs by the way. Who came for the most part? Somalis. Legal Somalis who were permitted into the US because of war in Somalia. By the way, if you read accounts of what ordinary Americans thought of the bust in Postville, it wasn’t generally favorable because the (mainly) Latinos removed from Postville had been family people who had made the community their own and helped revitalize it as has occurred in places all over the Midwest. There were largely shuttered downtowns and depressed housing markets and threatened schools all over the heartland that have been revitalized by illegal Latino and other immigrants, legal and illegal.
I really worry about Biden and his tendency toward gaffes. I think Chuck Hagel would have been a good choice for Obama. I wonder if he would have been interested. Yes, I know Hagel is a Republican.
I am not a single issue voter, but if I were, it wouldn’t be immigration. For me the Supreme Court is unbelievably crucial since the Court is one of the few barriers that has stood in the way of Bush making even a greater mockery of our Constitutional traditions such as habeas corpus. Plus how could I vote for a candidate and a party that has made it clear that women have no rights over their own bodies and that wants to forever cement that inequality in a constitutional amendment.
Totally agree, Leila. I am not enamored with either presidential candidate, each for different reasons. However, the Supreme Court appointments are critical. Several posts should be coming up soon especially given the ages of some of the justices.
I don’t even think of it as selecting a president. I think of it as voting for the Supreme Court appointee. Turn about is fair play. Didn’t they put bush in office in the first place? Even if you aren’t concerned about women’s rights, Florida 2000 should have sounded a dire warning of what happens when we get careless with the Supremes.
MH,
Amnesty to me is rewarding those that have entered our country illegally, or overstayed their visas(student and/or work). There is a legal system in place, although it is in dire need of reform. Remeber, we will all have a varying definition of amnesty. There will certainly be those that will get some sort of amnesty of sorts. “perception is reality”.
I’ve NEVER once said or thought we could deport X number of illegal aliens in the USA. We can only chip away at that number. We must get rid of the worst of the worst first. Those in our jails should be sent back to their country of orgin immediately after serving their time.
I don’t think those that have been here illegally should be given the right to be here before those that have waited to come here via the legal avenues. I do understand and accept there’s a human factor, which I feel is greatly overlooked by many.
As for $5,000, I feel that is buying your way. I don’t like that idea. I found a Western Union receipt in my front yard to the tune of $2,500 this money was sent to Mexico City. I seriously doubt that was for a mortgage payment. This was left behind by a neighbor of mine that doesn’t work outside the home. She is not retired either, nor does she have a business license that I’m aware. Of course I’ve checked this out, and again she has no busines license. So how is it she would have that kind of cash just laying around? She’s not worked for the three years she’s lived here. I think most would not be able to do this on a reguarly basis. My neighbor told me she sends money home all the time. Which I do find that admirable she wants to help her family that is not as fortunate as her to be living in the USA legally. So, money is NOT the answer. imho
DALLAS — Illegal immigrants are returning home to Mexico in numbers not seen for decades — and the Mexican government may have to deal with a crush on its social services and lower wages once the immigrants arrive.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon plans to help returning nationals by providing food, medical care and temporary shelter if needed. But reports are already out in Mexico that the large number of illegal immigrants returning home could drive down wages and put pressure on social services — the same concerns many Americans have with illegals living and working in the U.S.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409221,00.html
“My neighbor told me she sends money home all the time. Which I do find that admirable …”
It’s literally our tax dollars being sent over there. They can afford to send money because welfare here helps to feed their kids, and the County taxpayers pay to teach them English, and so on and so forth.
“I honestly do not know how you would arrange things differently than Obama or McCain. ”
You must be joking. Those two are complete panderers. I would use every office of government to help defend American citizens, it would be very different. I’d certainly make e-verify the talk of the county and I’d pretty much declare war on employers who hire illegals, and on flophouse owners. I’d initiate a dialogue on clarifying the 14th? Amendment via Constitutional Convention to do away with this cazy “anchor baby” stuff. I’d track the costs in schools and hospitals of illegal labor, and try to get illegal hirers to pay the bill. I’d dramatically expand ICE and pay for it from assets seized from illegal hirers and from illegal aliens. I’d tell Calderon, loudly and publicly, that his corrupt nation needs to take care of their own.
info,
Here’s a little something for you from another thread.
Chris, 22. August 2008, 16:16
Dime,
Thanks for the insight. We had several “boarding houses” on my block. My block is in MUCH better shape than last year. Enforcement of the zoning laws has made huge impact for the better. However, legal immigrants are leaving too. I don’t think that’s a good thing. I’ve talked to many legal immigrant friends of mine and they said they don’t feel like this is the same place it once was.
One legal immigrant friend of mine told me about a friend of her’s who was here illegally. He got in some sort of trouble with the law and was taken to the jail here in PWC. He was turned over to ICE. He said he would not appeal this decision and wanted to return home as soon as possible.
Rick,
This women has grown children that do NOT live with her. She lives in a single family home alone. So, I seriously doubt this woman falls into that category you spoke of. There will always be those looking for a “freebie” from our government. This has been going on for decades. There are bad apples in every bunch. I despise those looking for me and other hard working legal citizens to pay their way.
What I despise most of all is people like McCain, Obama, Bush feeding us disinformation to try to keep propping this corrupt system up with our tax dollars so that their backers and friends can maximize short-term profit. While ignoring their oaths of office as they see fit.
Obama is a crook. The guy who threw his first fund-raiser, who he represented through a law firm, and who helped Obama get his 3 million dollar house cheaper than you or I could, is a slumlord convicted of fraud.
McCain first came to public attention as one of the “Keating 5” and was almost kicked out of the Senate for his corruption.
Neither of those men is worthy of the office.
Chris, there are all kinds of ways she could be making money. Drug laundering, selling fake IDs, those are possible. She could be titleholder on 13 flophouses for all we know. Quite possibly it’s nothing illegal or unethical but quite possibly it is. If you can speak Spanish, our governments have been taught to ignore any identity fraud you engage in.
How do we get these clowns running for our highest office? In 2004 we actually had two elitists whose time together at Yale saw one watching the other masturbate in a coffin (Skull and Bones ritual, Kerry a Senior and Bush a freshman). Talk about a cluster of incestuous elites. As if the choice between these two parties is any type of real choice at all.
The one party wants to grant Amnesty because they represent the wealthy who will get rich quicker, and the other party wants to do it because it will help their vote share in future elections. That’s the choice we get.
Elena, McCain being a “nice guy” is not enough. Bush was a nice guy completely duped and manipulated by war profiteers and corporate colonialists intent on invading Iraq as soon as they got their long-awaited “Pearl Harbor type of attack.” McCain showed strains of independent thinking years ago. Now he is in the pocket of Big Oil and the war profiteers are only one place back in the line for favors, a.k.a. #2.
We can’t afford to have the voting public duped by a “nice guy” and then have the “nice guy” in turn duped by war profiteers and Big Oil. Whatever issue we thought we were voting for with Bush turned out to be NOT THE ISSUE. Invading Iraq and covering up abuses of power were the one and only issues and the only functions of the Bush Administration. We can’t afford to go on like this.
Rick,
Yes, however. She’s not a young woman by any means. I think she babysits a couple of kids. I know my mom always had be watched in someone’s home. Day Care Centers weren’t around in my days. This woman is bilingual and good neighbor.
Chris, I don’t see what you are saying as being that different from what O and M are saying. You sound moderate. However, you are not saying what Rick is saying.
I do think we have to use the standard definition of ‘amnesty’ rather than one that has been hi-jacked for political purposes. I feel strongly that we need dialogue rather than buzz words. I cannot tell you how much different your words sounded than just saying amnesty.
Now Rick, thanks for sharing your plan. I hope you realize that what you are suggesting is not possible to do if you are president? In the first place, your plan violates scads of laws. Plus, unless you could pull off executive orders, most of your proposal would have to go through the legislative process.
On the other hand, I do understand. In my perfect world, I would probably violate many people’s civil rights the moment I took over and presided over this imaginary world. People who smacked gum would be bitch slapped at least 100 times, for starters…
I don’t mind people sending remittances. Immigrants have done this since it became known as a land of opportunity. Let’s face it, most people didn’t come here because they were doing so well in the old country. They came here to better themselves and ultimately to help their families in the old country.
CNN article on Biden’s effect on the ticket:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/23/biden.analysis/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Also, on the subject of elitism…there are many definitions, but many people include intellectuals in that category. I am tired of people being dogged because they are educated or smart. I am by no means saying that attending a school with a great educational reputation means that you are smart or wise (no offense, but GWB is a great example of how the two aren’t necessarily related). However, I think that it is time America started valuing intelligence and education in its leaders over the folksy, guy-I’d-like-to-drink-a-beer-with quality. What does it say about us as a country if we continually denigrate our leaders/potential leaders for being smart and well-educated?
$5000……to who? the government? so we can send it to OPEC nations? so we can send it to China? so we can send it to Mexico? or so we can send it to San Francisco to help them protect killer gang members. $5000 doesn’t even begin to cover cost to our economy of illegal immigration, and it’s going to the government? Oh, HELL NO! Back to your home country, period.
Soy Culero,
You failed to mention how you are going to make this happen? Please include costs, mode of transportation, and those kinds of rascally things. What about those who chose not to go. How are you going to convince them.
Make what happen?? Getting them all back? Cost: zero. Mode of transportation: same way they got here! Got any tough questions?
Oh, I missed a couple… if they chose not to go: there is no “choice” if they’re here illegally. I’d say a little jail, a little complete denial of all services, and devastating punishment for employers of illegals, and their “choice” will be an easy one.
Gee Mr. Culero, I thought you were all law and order and stuff. Yet you make some very odd claims about “getting them all back.”
The cost of deportation transport has to be paid by the US government. That is how deportation works. Plus hearings and other administrative aspects of deportation have costs.
So you have 12-20 million or more people who must be removed to their home countries. About 56 percent come from Mexico, which at least theoretically can mean land transport to the border. Even if the government may not choose that for its own reasons. See below:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26124693/
That leaves 44 percent who will have to be deported via planes or boats by necessity since, for example, Mexico has no requirement under international law to allow deportees from other North or American nations to be transported through its territory. Consider the estimated 13 percent of illegal immigrants who are from Asia. Add to that all the illegal immigrants from Africa and Europe. Throw in Caribbean countries and other islands. That’s a lot of plane transport, or ships, but ships are slow and would mean huge expenses as well.
You cannot put 12-20 million people in jail or holding centers. ICE can’t even handle the tiny numbers from the tiny busts they already do. How exactly would you organize and pay for returning people to a substantial number of the 180- odd countries in the world? This is not to even bring up myriad other legal issues brought up by your hints of deliberate mistreatment.
Oh, I forgot, you could bus the Canadians home, so subtract planes and ships for their relatively minimal numbers. I guess Moon-howler’s question stands, no?
Are you able to answer it?
Correction: add “South” in phrase so reads North or South American nations.
No, in fact the cost of self-deportation, which is what would happen if we upheld the law (instead of picking and choosing which laws to uphold, like the no arrest for less than one ounce of weed thing for the Democratic National Convention). The citizens of the US did not pay to have 20+ million folks stream in, and we shouldn’t have to pay to have 20+ million stream right on out. The key, I think, is punishing businesses brutally who hire illegals (my Republican friends disagree with that, of course). Take away jobs, take away ALL taxpayer funded services, and we won’t have to pay a dime, they’ll leave on their own.
Costs: $0
Savings to Taxpayers: Priceless
self-deportation program u-deport abandoned because they had only 8 takers. they really don’t qualify for many services so the real cost is being incurred as they cash out equity from their homes and cross the border leaving us with record foreclosures, best to put the welcome mat back out and save our economy
No, No, not the “self-deportation” program that just ended. THAT was maybe the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. If we had protected our borders in the first place, instead of fooling around in Iraq, the record foreclosures you describe wouldn’t have been a problem in the first place.
would’a, could’a should’a no sense looking back better deal with the realities of todya.
Elitism? Yeah, I prefer the type of success story where you pull yourself up by your boot straps and EARN the American Dream ; rather than marrying the most wealthy woman in Arizona and becoming such a fat cat elitist that you can’t remember how many houses you own.
Talk about elitist. Most Americans never get to even have the problem of losing count.
Biden is the perfect contrast because he is another person who comes from humble beginnings and lived the American Dream. He is also, I read somewhere, the LEAST wealthy member of the U.S. Senate. Takes the train to his ONE home in Delaware each day after work. Never bought a second home in Washington.
Mr. Culero,
Can you give specific examples of the sorts of brutal punishments for business you advocate?
Can you explain how you would identify every illegal alien adult in the country so as to deprive them of their jobs? That isn’t even to mention children. Can you explain how you would get around the law that mandates services for the American-born children of illegal immigrants? Can you explain how you would reverse the US Supreme Court decision on educating all children, even if they are not American born or in legal resident aliens? Also, how would the government avoid paying for the care and eventual deportation of millions who might be so hungry and desperate under your desired scenario that they turned themselves in? If someone has no work, no food, and their children are starving, how exactly will they get back to China or Africa for example?
How would you deal with the riots that would presumably occur? Shoot and kill everyone? Or if you arrested the rioters, would you refuse to feed and house them? What would you do with them?
There isn’t a single element of your plan that is in any way likely to happen, so it seems a bit beside the point. Every single aspect of what you appear to claim is so dead simple has vast economic, legal, and practical impediments, not to mention serious moral problems.
There is a serious public-policy crisis and you offer cribs from Master Card commercials.