Thanks to Poor Richard for pointing this one out.
Apparently, the sign has come down just in time for Mr. Fernandez’s court appearance today.
Facing a Court Hearing, Man Begins Removing Pro-Immigrant Billboard
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/04/AR2008090403620.html
“I think most of my friends who saw those flyers figured that it was an election year gimmick and immigration was best handled by the feds.”
Sorry to say, but your friends do not represent the majority populace of PWC that voted for Stewart specifically for his stance on illegal immigration. The only one that screwed the pooch that got ellected was Colgan and even he shared Stewart’s conviction… until after the elections of course. Plus he’s a fixture in PWC. He was actually a neighbor of mine for a few years MANY years ago. Now his old house is a flop-house. Go figure.
Perhaps this is the time to ask what exactly WAS done about illegal immigration. How have things changed as a direct result of electing those 2 key elected officials?
As I drove my usual route across town today, I saw lots of ‘brown faces at the bus stop.’ (someone else’s words, NOT mine) No change there.
I saw lots of foreclosure notices on doors and lots of for sale signs in front of empty houses. Not sure sure that is the change we wanted.
Yes, I am implying all of this was bs and bluster. We have spent money we do not have and have gotten nothing in return. We have gotten nothing that wasn’t handled by the 287g program.
Please! Someone explain what the 2 elected officials got us here in Prince William County other than a bad reputation? Hell, we even swept up Manassas City in the process.
Mando, I don’t think it’s possible to tease out which of Stewart’s supporters voted because of the immigration issue and which voted for other reasons. They weren’t asked. We have no data.
I’ve driven past the sign frequently. I use that street because it’s lightly travelled compared to some of the surrounding streets. You’re guaranteed to get through the light. Frankly, I guess I don’t have the type of personality that allows one person’s sign to get my stomach in knots.
Hello, I believe we should have a uniform immigration system in this country. A person should be able to assume the law is the same as he or she travels from county to county, state to state.
“Yes, I am implying all of this was bs and bluster. We have spent money we do not have and have gotten nothing in return. We have gotten nothing that wasn’t handled by the 287g program. ”
I’ll give you that. I’ve always stated and felt that the resolution was nothing more then a paper tiger. The resolution was a result of consituent frustrations with heel dragging and same old same old “it’s a federal problem” passing the buck.
Honest question though, how much exactly has that paper tiger cost? In dollars? Not 287g, but the resolution?
Also, you’ll notice the “sign” specifically mentioned 287g NOT the resolution.
“Frankly, I guess I don’t have the type of personality that allows one person’s sign to get my stomach in knots.”
Well censored, I guess you’re just a better person then the residents around that “sign” that do have a problem with it.
Hi Moon-howler, as far as PWC having a bad reputation… it all depends on who you talk to. Most of my family lives in MD and back when the who bad reputation talk came about I asked them what they thought of PWC. They all said they wish Montgomery County would do the same thing. I asked people at my work (most of which live in DC and MD) and the only thing they really knew about PWC is Potomac Mills mall. Not a single person I’ve spoken to has ever thought negatively about PWC and knew nothing about a “bad reputation”. Like I said, it’s who you talk to.
“Not a single person I’ve spoken to has ever thought negatively about PWC and knew nothing about a “bad reputation”. Like I said, it’s who you talk to.”
It’s pretty much a Northern VA thing that goes back DECADES (50+ years?) and has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation. PWC’s population has exploded in the past few years with all the new developements that sprung up overnight so I’d imagine many of those people experienced a “reputation” shock and naturally blamed it on current events.
Manassas and PWC has ALWAYS been “redneck”.
Hello….”please”, 🙂
PWC is a republican county still, barely hanging on by a thread, but primarily republican. Censored make a excellent point, there is NO data to support the supposition that John and Corey won on illegal immigration.
“Censored make a excellent point, there is NO data to support the supposition that John and Corey won on illegal immigration.”
Conversly, there’s none that they didn’t.
touché Elena. However, immigration was the base of their campain and they won. While there is no way to tell if immigration is what got them elected one would have to assume people voted for them based on the campain they ran.
Hello and Mando, Stewart ran a campaign based on regulating growth very shortly before his last campaign. Many people who originally voted for him because of that issue voted for him a second time for the same reason.
Mando, you’d have to look at the extra cost to the PD as well as staff time wasted to figure who could be banned from which county service to help determine the cost of pursuing the resolution. Additionally, it has cost the county lost revenues from sales tax, business taxes, possibly real estate taxes because of residents leaving. Although I think most home foreclosures are the result of loose money, some residents left because of the resolution.
How are neighborhoods better because of the resolution? Aren’t most neighborhood improvements the result of Neighborhood Services finally getting on the ball as well as police and zoning enforcement?
How is it that the Gospel Greg’s true believers on this blog have never heard of PWC’s negative reputation, never met anyone who reads newspapers or has internet access, and only talk to people who don’t follow current events?
Either they are twisting their own experience in order to protect their politicians (Stirrup & the GregNCorey Show), or we should just get used to pleading ignorance as the new tactic of our least informed posters.
Mando,
Using that same logic the majority of Americans want some form of legalization because both Presidential candidates espouse that belief.
And you know, with the exception of the Stonewall precinct, Stirrup lost all other Manassas area precincts including: Sinclair, Westgate, Sudley North & Mullen. Not too good for the ‘Help Save Manassas’ candidate. Stirrup did well in the western area precincts(Evergreen, Battlefield, Bull Run, Glenkirk) but these areas are nowhere near the supposed ‘problem’ which leads me to believe that they voted for him not on the illegal immigration issue but mainly because of his party affiliation.
Censored
BINGO!!! THis is what we should have used our local dollars on all along. Beefed up zoning and Neighborhood Services. My local tax dollars are not to be used to fund federal responsibilities….. or state. Besides illegal immigration – well, don’t get me started on PWC paying to build it’s own roads…. We might as well secede at this point.
Hi WHWN, who are you calling “Gospel Greg’s true believers”?
Thankfully this will be the last blog thread dicussing that sign. The bottom line has always been a simple equation: Could enough people in this area be blinded by hate, fear, and anger to the point that they would champion a disastrously bad policy?
Last year the answer was yes. This year the answer is no. The least informed posters here are the ones who still haven’t opened their eyes. Maybe the demolition of that wall will give them that opportunity.
Also WHWN, yes, my family and friends do read the newspaper and follow current events which is why they wish Montgomery County would do something like PWC about their illegal immigration problems.
“Hi WHWN, who are you calling “Gospel Greg’s true believers”?”
That’s just his/her generic robo response. I don’t think he/she even reads the comments.
How sad for me that the wall came down. I was hoping to avoid applying for a variance to put a roof over my deck by covering the new walls in hate speech. Now I’ll have to follow the regs like everyone else.
Darn.
Area newspapers have commented endlessly on PWC’s Immigration Resolution. PWC has made national news several times. I have had friends and family on the west coast call me up and snicker about us making the news. The only thing you can do is laugh it off.
Yes, Mando, Manassas has always had that reputation. It existed before I moved here and probably will long after I am gone. On the other hand, I thought it was cleaning up a bit when we got noticed for being one of the top 10 wealthiest counties (can’t remember in terms of what). It really did seem like we were chugging along.
I am not sure we can ever seperate the cost of the Immigration Resolution from other economic indicators of things gone amiss. A perfect storm was brewing. I just think we have made things worse and I believe that politicians used immigration and people’s frustration over neighborhood condition to get re-elected.
Anyone who wishes to distance them self from Gospel Greg is more than welcome to. In fact I suggest as much if you are going to repeat things he says as if they are your own thoughts.
But I really don’t keep track of “who” because there IS no “who” for most of the people posting here including me. But I have noticed a pattern among those who, incredibly, still defend the 1O months of political posturing, bad headlines, hateful and racist bickering, blatant lies by our Chairman, and two months of a supremely ill-advised law enforcement policy that befell this county, costing us millions and gaining us nothing but a deeper economic hole to dig out of than any other county in this region.
Anti-Immigrant Lobby apologists (perhaps you prefer this term) have no objective basis for truth or fiction. Your only litmus test for new information is whether or not it supports your immutable, prefabricated county view (your perspective is too narrow to call it a world view).
I don’t know where you learned this, but I choose to blame Gospel Greg. Because no where else but his blog and no where but his Help Save cult meetings have I seen so many people so happily deceived and so expertly trained to memorize and regurgitate untruths.
It’s so funny to read your conviction that everyone has been brainwashed by Greg and company. I was barely aware of HSM and BVBL until I saw the article in the paper when this anti blog was launched. I would have to say my opinions were MORE solidifed after reading some of the zany rantings and extreme opinions HERE.
As a matter of fact, I would name you, WHWN, among a handful of anti elite as contributing to the many reasons I joined HSM recently. I’m sure if Greg posted here he would thank you for your recruitment efforts.
It goes beyond getting themselves reelected, M-H. The fact that it was John Stirrup’s big ole pie hole screaming maniacally at the GOP convention brings our county’s shameful ordeal full circle. Much more so than the GregNCorey Show, Stirrup was always upfront about using the immigration issue as a way for Republicans to hold on to power in Washington. He has privately referred to PWC as a dress rehearsal for 2008 and publicly stated he hoped the issue would dominate this year’s Presidential election.
That was before the Straight Talk Express rolled over John Stirrup’s little Anti-Immigrant Lobby lego set.
The fact that he cheers him anyway tells me what last year was all about for him.
Wow WHWN, I totally understand your strategy now. If someone differs from your opinion they obviously got it from “Gospel Greg”, nice. Oh, I almost forgot, they also don’t have the worldly views you do your Majesty. Us commoners aren’t good enough for you so I just won’t direct any questions your way because you already know everything about me and who brain washed me. What a joke…
WHWN’s world view: Different opinion=brainwashed drone whose vote doesn’t really count, even if his/her candidate wins.
Emma,
Your entrance into this blog was accompanied by your horrible cruel comments to TWINAD. Hardly the unbiased and open approach you pretend to espouse.
Not saying you ARE what you sound like. But I have to point out what you sound like. Relax. It could be just a coincidence. You sound like Gospel Greg because you think like him. I grant you that.
Anyway, I am heartened to see that all have come to realize the negative impact Greg and the Anti-Immigrant lobbying firm he recruited has had on our county.
“Horrible cruel.” Hardly. Go back and look. You all are so bloody sensitive that you gang up on ANYONE who calls you on your bs. I think some of the crap many of the antis have spewn here is a hell of a lot more hateful.
And Twinad’s hubbie is a lawbreaker. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Funny how even after I made a sincere apology to Twinad, you keep throwing it back in my face, Elena. I guess forgiveness is not in your vocabulary, or you are simply too consumed with hatred.
Where’s the pit bull? He/she should be out any minute now.
Emma, as we have discussed, you did come on here guns ablazing. I also do not think that this blog made it to the papers when it was ‘born.’ You must have us confused with someone else. Word just traveled.
As for blaming whwn for your joining hsm, I expect that was already what you had in mind. In fact, weren’t you a member, when you first arrived? And we really aren’t upset if people join HSM. It isn’t particularly selective, they don’t charge dues, so what does it matter?
I am also a lawbreaker. I was speeding today. I also inadvertently brought a bic pen home from work today. Left that bad boy right in my pocket and didnt realize it until I got home. Isn’t that stealing government property?
I know Twinad’s husband. He is a very nice, hard-working man, married to an American lady and is the father of a really cute American kid who is a good student. You prefer to think of him as a criminal? I really find that offensive. Do you think he would not like to have his status changed? How long must he wait after he has applied? I believe Twinad said they applied for an adjustment in status 8 years ago? I believe the goverment agency charged with handling his case is the criminal, not him.
I happen to have some respect for men to stick around and who support and nurture their families.
I agree with Emma, I’ve tried to remain extremely tolerant of others emotional tyrades, and what I get back for simply debating things as truthfully as I can, and as wisely as possible considering the “entire” picture, is a range of responses.
1. I’m ignored
2. I’m personally insulted
3. My values are discredited
4. My character is asassinated
5. My comments are manipulated and twisted
6. I’m being associated with racists like John Tanton, when I have said NOTHING like John Tanton.
7. I’m told that “individual” rights mean nothing and only politcal hate groups aligned in each party along racial, gender, ethnic and religious group lines of political power matters.
8. I’m called a liar
9. I’m associated with HSM and “Gospel” Greg when I know neither and belong to neither.
10. I’m told I provide “pretzel logic” when my education and career as a military pilot, skilled computer engineer, and student of history uses real world evidence and concepts that even Teddy Kennedy conveys to people at the DNC.
11. I’m told that lawfullness does not matter, and lawless people should be supported for breaking the law.
12.I’ve been accused of plagerism, when I’ve only cut and pasted words from wikipedia whaich has a open source GNU license.
12. I’m answered with disrespect, when I convey only a tone of respect, desire honest debate and matter of fact honesty, because people disagree with my comments and opinions.
Is this what it means to be a liberal radical?
Is this the “ethics” of this blog?
Show me any disrespectful things I have said to others, that in ANY WAY equals or exceeds the disrespect and malice with which I have been treated on this blog.
I even apologize when I make a mistake, but not when I state truth that people simply don’t like to hear.
I have had only two very consistant issues.
1. I’m am against illegal immigration and for legal immigration, because “illegal” immigration breaks laws, undermines our democracy, causes poverty, and decline in our community and does not in any way have ANY positive benefit on the majority in our nation. It ONLY helps the “illegals”.
2. I am very much against racism, and see the problems of the racial prejudices of the 1950s returning, but now the primary racists and facists are the political groups aligning along racial, gender, ethnic and religious hates groups using the Democratic Party (in the case of religios groups the Republican party) to politically advocate for and press for factionalized legislation and law that will only benefit themselves, while hurting everyone else in the Democratic concept of “majority” law and majority “welfare”. Such political factions are extremely destructive of Democracy, and create anarchy, lawlessness, facists, socialists and autocracy of the type seen in every other country in the world engaged in ethnic and religious wars.
I am attacked because my free speech views as a loyal and concerned citizen who once put my life on the line for this country, I feel I need to speak out about the problems above and put a stop to it.
I supported Corey in elections (a Republican) and anyone else who will put a stop to the above two problems, including Obama (a Democrat), if I read his dialog and statement correctly. I know what criminal corruption of the political infrastructure really means and I intend to put a stop to it by voting for anyone who will stop the above two national problems.
I am who called you a liar, Michael, because you said I said something I didn’t say. I believe we got that straight on another thread.
I don’t think people here have been ruder than they have been on other blogs. Perhaps it depends on whose ox is being gored though.
let’s look at this another way, you are aware that many of the regulars here are here because they were banished on the black screen and were not even told they were being banished? That has not been done to you here. Not saying it was done to you there, but it might have been and you didn’t know it. Also, people haven’t used one line sound bites on you like ‘illegal is illegal.’ We wouldn’t insult your intelligence that way.
Michael, one more thing, I don’t believe you have been attacked because of your free speech views. People disagree. Life goes on.
Moon-howler, I know where Michael is coming from. I’ve also been called a racist and liar (among other things) for no good reason. I’ve never once said anything about race but if your anti-illegal immigration it seems you get stamped with the racist sticker. If you provide a real life example of something that happened to you your a liar. I’ve even had people question if my wife was really a minority or not (she is Korean). Why would I lie about that?
NotGregLetiecq, 5. September 2008, 9:28
It was the Mexican Americans’ voice that caught the attention of the nation in the first place. Taking to the streets and making demands is a sure way to draw attention. Especially if you’re in the country illegally! I’m glad it happened, because it brought the facts of what was occurring out in the open before it was too late for the American citizen to demand action.
MH, people can disagree with respect. That is the only thing that will make any blog worth the time and effort. None of what I have described above was necessary, including your use of the word “liar”. All you simply have to say and what I say to all of you is “I disagree and here’s why”. Do you routinely call people a “liar” in public places, simply because they say to you “here’s what I hear you are saying and I disagree”.
Use of the word liar is a highly disrespectful term, that is not respectful in any way, it is worse than being rude in tone and mannerism.
You can not simply justify such arrogant and disrespectful comments in the form of all the above things I have experienced simple “whiff, sniff, we are only disagreeing so accept the malice and rudeness”. I only shows futher disregard for any compassion and respect for others.
Rudeness. arrogance and malice is rampant on this blog of a degree or greater than it is on any I have ever been on.
Behavior of this type is inexcusable unless people on this blog believe all people should be treated this way. Elena extols the virtues of the golden rule, yet so many on this blog fail in execution of it, especially if anyone disagrees with them in political concept.
I call that malicious and vicious and completly beneath any person of good character and morals.
Yeah its not a free speech issue Michael. You have a right to post 50,000 word diatribes on an hourly basis and we have a right to scroll through them.
The only people who ever gave me THAT much mandatory reading were grading me at the end of the semester.
NGL, no one is making you read anything. But that does not give you license to make negative and disparaging remarks about it. That is insensitve, disrespectful and un-necessay language that in no way creates positive and respectful dialog. You also do not apply an equivalent “disparaging” remark standard when your political associates write long diatribes. If length was a problem, we would never have a Constitution or a Bill of Rights written, if the only good writing was short writing by your “50,000 word diatribe pain threshold. My comments have been limited only to the length necessary (no-where near 50,000 words) to fully explain the concepts so people do not misunderstand what I am saying and twist my words.
Your intolerance of long verse is really a facade hiding your intolerance of opposing viewpoints and masking your contempt.
I don’t believe your only issue is simply long posts, I think there is more to it, by the tone of voice you use and the way you say it.
Hey, Emma,
Can you repost (or cut and paste) the sincere apology you made to me? I definitely never saw it and back when that happened I was a regular poster. Don’t know how I missed it.
I apololgist in advance for taking up so much space. However…some things need to be spelled out.
Michael, You attributed thoughts and words to me that were not mine. I allowed for
error when I said
Here is what you said I said on another thread. (John Taunton)
and
1.
Yes, I do call people liars if they say I said something I did not say as illustrated above. I was willing to chalk it off to a misunderstanding.
There are plenty of words a lot worse than ‘liar.’ Frankly, I am tired of all the complaining about how people are treated here. It is just an attempt to distract.
This is a general announcement to all who feel they are mistreated here: Take it up with the person who mistreated you. Blogs are not for the feint of heart. Mrs. Cheney runs a very well-behaved blog. Perhaps those who are complaining about this blog should just go to her blog. Warning: Be prepared to go by her rules. Michael, you won’t be able to call people stupid, even generally. Emma, you won’t be able to say some of thing things that you have said to people here. Emma, in most cases, you have dished it out first.
Emma,
I am merely suggesting that if you had an inital negative reaction from people, it was your own doing. Please, personal responsibility would be appropriate for you in this instance.
Michael,
I am going to be very frank with you, maybe you are unaware of how you come across. You can have your opinion, it just simply to long winded for most to read. On some level, actually, I think you write incredibly long posts because you want us to stay attentive to you and only you. You continually write the same philosophy about the abuse of group rights and yet you contradict yourself on a regular basis. On one hand it was O.K. for women to form a coalition to fight for the right to vote, but now, that things are equal(?), women are suppose to forget their gender and become asexual? I would argue that true blind equality does not exist. Furthermore, when are unable to “force” people to agree with you, ie. your incredibly long posts, you resort to threats of legal action. Michael, this is a cyberworld, where people can make up an identity they like, it isn’t the best form of communication, just that simple.
Twinad, here it is:
Michael, I’ll admit I skim over many of your posts, but I do try to catch the basic meaning. I had forgotten you were the one who threatened legal action. Nothing you say makes any sense. Plus it’s long-winded. So, we skim over your posts. That’s the American way in a free competition of ideas.
If you don’t like the feeling, try writing your posts on a different program like Word, and then read them over (before posting) to decide what is:
A) truly essential
B) not essential, but fleshes things out a bit
C) completely contradicts and undercuts your argument.
D) has nothing to do with the subject and makes you look foolish
Next, cut everything that falls into the latter three categories, and throw the rest of it into the comment window. This would gain you some of the respect you seem so distraught over lacking.
Funny you should say that, Elena, because initially you reacted very positively to me, and when I got discouraged and said I wouldn’t post here anymore after awhile, you expressed hope that I would return. Go back and look. Unlike Michael, though, I don’t need for you to like me–I just enjoy the debate.
You have a long memory for the faults of people who disagree with you, Elena, but a very short memory as to the positive things they may contribute to the debate, or to the outright nastiness and bullying tactics of some of the regular posters here. You stand by while others harass and name call and then tell their target that they shouldn’t take it so seriously. I understand that sometimes people exaggerate just to make a point. I know I do it myself, but of course what I say gets interpreted to the extreme, and I’m not allowed to back off from it.
Your responses to me have been pretty hostile of late, which is unfortunate given that you are quite articulate and clearly well-informed, which often makes for a great discussion. But, hey, it’s your (and Alanna’s) party here, isn’t it?
Emma,
What is it that you really want here? Judging from your behavior and tone, I always assumed, from the instant you arrived on this blog, that you wanted to scrap. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Each and every time you blog here, it seems like the focus is everyone’s manners. How about some issues? If I may be honest, I feel like you are the poster child for the expression, ‘if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.’ Do you understand why I say this?
You make some good points, excellent points even. But you take a barb here, a barb there, and then get all pissed off and aggressive when someone snaps and snarls at you.
Just some benign observations here.