In Chief Deane’s immigration resolution status report, after six months of madness in the county, the infamous and costly “crackdown on illegal immigration” has netted 626 arrests and summons of undocumented immigrants, 1.6% of all summons and arrests in the county. This 1.6% comes with the price of 11.3 million dollars. And out of 626, only 341 arrests were made and a handful proved to be legal residents mistakenly detained. See Washington Post Article.
The rabid supporters of the “crackdown” will no doubt say that that price tag is worth it to arrest 341 “illegals.” We can argue about the value of that ad nauseum, but there is a very serious logistical problem that is the real story in the report. It’s not reported in Kristen’s article and I’m sure Corey would like to gloss over this, but Marty pounced on it during session.
Corporal Pete Meletis reports that he has no idea what happens to those detainees who are released to ICE. There is no tracking done. Even ICE doesn’t know. The detainees are sent to various detentions centers and no one knows what happens to them. In fact, Pete Meletis said that they have discovered that in examining the results of the 287(g) Program between July 2007 – August 2008, out of 907 detainers released to ICE, 48 were not only back in the county but rearrested. 48 out of 907 were rearrested in the county! Is ICE just turning around and releasing everyone? It sure looks that way to me.
Here is the reality. There is a terrible cycle to detaining and deporting undocumented immigrants and we only have control over one half of that cycle. No matter how much money we spend, how well crafted it is, if we are blind to what is happening to the other half of the cycle, it’s a pointless exercise. We are baking one half of a pie totally blind to how the other half of the pie is being baked. Unless there is divine intervention, we’re going to end up with a really bad pie.
Until the other half of the cycle is fixed and transparent, we are just wasting money, time and resources. We are pouring our money into a bottomless pit. We must face reality, ICE and federal immigration laws have to get fixed, otherwise it is wasteful and counter productive to do anything at the local level.
“Cracking down” at the local level achieved NOTHING to resolve the immigration crisis. It only achieved one thing: create a social climate in which residents are divided and Hispanics and other minorities feel unwelcome. All for the bargain price of 11.3 million dollars that tax payers have to pay in exchange for a weakened economy, an overburdened police force, and a reputation for intolerance.
We have prioritized this useless crackdown over our seniors and children. This is just bad government and it must stop. We just can’t continue down this road.
Unfortunately, the county’s strategic planning task force will be full of politically motivated appointments by John Stirrup and Corey Stewart that includes Robert “foreign invasion” Duecaster and other faces from the county anti-immigrant lobby. There is no end in sight to this policy misguidance. Citizens must step up and regain control of our government, now infiltrated by the nativist hate group.
There is so much more in the report that we must analyze. We’ll continue to analyze and post another thread shortly.
Chris, I’ll bet that Hispanics are making less assumptions about whites than whites are about Hispanics. Because there are so many white people around, it’s much harder to generalize.
This is why Americans are so much more likely to believe lies about Barack Obama than they are to believe truths (however inconvenient) about John McCain and Sarah Palin. It is scientifically proven that people tend to ascribe negative feelings to minority groups based on encounters with a few. But they know better than that when it comes to majorities. Don’t ask me where I read that but I did.
That’s right, Fort. One of my first comments when I figured out what the BOCS was: “That’s the WHITEST board I’ve ever seen!” Guess I’m used to something a little different.
BTW, You Wish, thanks for visiting my blog. And don’t worry–I have a job and I manage to get all this done as well. I’m very productive! 🙂
Let’s face it, there are a lot of Boards where everyone is white. I feel bad harping about our board because, well, how’d you like to be one of the white Board members, say Frank Principi, being blamed for being white, and not only that, being blamed for the fact the OTHER 7 are white too?
I will point out though, as others have on this blog, that Frank and Marty Nohe are the two Supervisors who’s families are mixed race, and they seem to be the two who are most willing to stand up to the use of bigotry as a political football.
We love you Frank and Marty.
It’s not that being white is some tragedy or mark of shame. It’s more like, if you are going to pick on minorities, you should watch it because if your board HAS no minorities on it, there is a racist perception that Stirrup and Stewart make worse and worse. Now, the entire BOCS looks like a bunch of racists. Do I think they are all racist? Cetainly not. Do I think they now have another image problem? You bet!
There was an African American man who ran against Stirrup last election (can’t remember his name). He was very good but probably too new to the community. I would have voted for him in a hearbeat—he was all about unifying and improving, nothing like Stirrup. Why would I vote for him? Because he is black? NOPE. Because he wants unification and peace. Stirrup doesn’t know the meaning of those two words.
BTW, I give Nohe and Principi a standing ovation for having the courage to come up against all this BS that has come in the way of county improvement. They are the real leaders on that Board, not the Chair and Vice.
Good God, did you see the thread about trying to attack Gerhart’s office for having a communications department that functions?????
I think the headline at the top of this thread should be:
“Policy Failing, Confidence Dropping, Stirrup/Stewart/Letiecq FLAILING.”
The candidate who should have replaced Stirrup in Jan. was Corey Riley, a true public servant who does more for this community each and every day as a private citizen that Stirrup has in all his time in office.
Imagine if Frank, Marty, and Mr. Riley took on the racist-for-political-advantage crowd. Wouldn’t that be dramatic!!! We can only hope.
The Fiscal Plan FY2009 list the five year plan cost as 25.9 million! Now, we know that cameras are now excluded, so that number decreases to 22.9 million. I have the hard copy fiscal plan, sitting right here on my lap, so I don’t know where the 11.3 million comes from, but that is NOT what the county put in their packet they passed out a few months ago.
Are you sure? 22.9 million?
Positive
NGL,
FY2009 6.4 million (camera price tag reduced this number)
Five-Year Plan Cost – 25.9 million
If you have a fax number, send it through to admin and I will fax this to you
22.9 million or 11.3 million, both numbers are an unacceptable waste of taxpayer money.
But as alarming as it would be to find out the figure is actually double what we thought, I still can’t get over the 1.6 percent revelation! 1.6 percent of the crime committed in PWC is committed by undocumented immigrants.
Stunning. Truly stunning, considering all the rhetoric about crime, criminals, and invasions that supposedly justified this failed and disgraceful policy.
1.6 percent of the crime.
That means that more than 98 percent of the crime committed in PWC is committed by legal residents.
Whether it’s 11 or 22 million dollars, our Police Chief has been to over 70 community meetings, the department has been forced to deal with over 1,000 hours of extra work to deal with anti-immigrant lobbyists’ FOIA requests. All the studies they’ve prepared. The trips to New Jersey. The over time pay must be off the charts (not that they don’t deserve it).
Think about it folks.
Our Police Department is spending A LOT more than 1.6 percent of its time and resources on the tiny fraction of the crime being committed in Prince William County. What’s the real justification? A handful of angry citizens decided they wanted less “brown faces at the bus stop?”
So in the process of wasting and millions of million dollars of tax payer money, the government that WE elected has not only damaged our reputation and crippled our economy; it has taken our Police Department away from its core mission, and made us less safe.
I’m so disgusted, I don’t think I want to know, Elena. It’s painful. That money could have gone to so many worth while things.
Hey has anyone written to Corey Riley? That might be my next step. He’s in the right district.
I’m having trouble posting – if anyone was interested in the links to the citizen survey, I can try again.
Let me look in the spam folder, I don’t understand why this happens but let me go check.
Sure 77% of residents feel good about it, but they’re “uneducated” and “unenlightened”. They haven’t yet learned to “embrace diversity”. They’ll look up one day and miss the sound of endless Spanish chatter in the stores, and the sight of whole families confusedly crossing highways on foot, and schools and emergency rooms that have more Americans than Mexicans in them. It’ll all change, any day now.
Why do you do this? Why do you support illegal behavior and lawbreaking in our county?
Why do you say law enforcement costs too much, therefore we should stop enforcing the law? Why can you never admit that if the original concept of asking “everyone” for their “ILLEGAL” STATUS at any encounter with the police, you would not very soon and quickly find many, many more than just 630 some “illegals” that WOULD justify spending the SAME amount of money? You take a statistic and mis-represent it, 1.6% of the total arrests are “illegals”, I don’t believe that number, what is your data for such a calculation based on? You have no idea what happens to the other half of the deportation cycle yet you claim it is bad and broken because it can’t enforce a porous border (the reasone we are in this debate in the first place). Personally I’m sick of people whining that law should not be enforced when it is “inconvienient” to criminals.
By supporting such lunacy, you are hurting our community a lot more than whining about spending money you think is better spent on some “social” engineering program…When are we ever going to get leadership that can prevent lawlessness and actually enforce the law regardless of people who don’t want law enforcement.
When are any of you ever going to stop making this an issue about race? It is about law and the breaking of the law. You are all supporting more breaking of the law. I very much worry about our country when it is populated by people who could care less about law enforcement or law breaking, and get upset (even undermine law) when they simply can’t just do whatever they want. This is a sick and pathetic political position to side on.
I really, really hope someone holds all of you accountable for the impact you have had on our community and the impact you have had on the undermining of law in America. I hope it comes with jail time someday.
Your race-centric manipulative hateful discussions make me sick and sad for America…
When you can take race out of your conversation, and simply talk about law, then maybe you can finally rise above your own racial hatreds of others. So far I see none of that in this blog. You think racism is only one sided, it is not.
Liars.
Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we seek to deceive.
https://www.checkpointusa.org/blog/index.php/2008/05/26/p93#more93
Michael
Your accusations don’t gain traction just because you repeat them ad infinitum. I could stand on the street corner and yell “the sky is red and purple polka-dotted” but that doesn’t make it so. And I know what people would think of me if I did just that.
Micheal,
Isn’t it about time for “date night” with your woman? Oh, and aren’t you one of the many men that have a significant other that’s foriegn born?
You are really over the top tonight. Relax, take a deep calming breath and count to ten, dude!
Michael,
Why? Why? Why?!?..you ask.
Because we choose to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTP8RvUW4ac
Yes I am over the top tonight. I’ll calm down in a few minutes. I’m angry. I’m not usually angry, but this constant drone of telling everyone we should simply ignore the law and support criminals has me angry. I spent too much time defending my country as a soldier not to be offended and angry about such political BS and damaging language for our country, our legal system and our very Democractic ideals. It makes me ill to think we have people in this country with such mis-guided morals mis-leading people with verbal garbage such as the topic of this blog thread.
I have only two issues:
1. Stop “illegal” immigration and enforce the LAW. Deport those who have broken the law.
2. Stop racists behaviors, racial hatred, racial, ethnic, gender and religious group political hate-mongering against everyone not like yourself, including the “majority” in a Democracy.
I see this blog as undermining both of these moral issues.
See mackie.. that kind of disrespct for our nation, our law and our Democracy is exactly what I’m talking about.
Slither, my anger is not toward foreign born. Yes, my wife is foreign born and even in that enlightened position, I see the “immorality” of what people are doing on this blog by suporting lawlessness and “illegal” behavior.
My anger is at people who break the law and then rub your nose in it, chanting, if you resist me I’ll tell my social activists on you and tell congress they are full of it…
That is known as “moral decay of society”. It is very common in “criminally” run nations. I have seen it in action.
Michael,
Wow! We all get angry at times. Thank you for your service to our great nation.
I think you had a broad brush out tonight with those earlier comments. All is just the wrong word to use. We all have varying opinions here, and everywhere else on this planet. That’s just life. I post here regularly, and I for one do NOT support illegal immigration. I am all for deportation. I am realist and know we can NOT deport on those residing in our country illegally. So, we must start with the worst of the worst. This will send a message that we will not tolerate illegal behavior. I also, believe all on this blog want a secure border, and all ports of entry to be secure as well.
Yes, the racist behavior, etc. needs to end. However, there will always be those extremists out there. This could be tough in the “real world” because it can get pretty ugly at times.
Now, as for the topic of the thread. I am VERY concerned about 48 illegal aliens being rearrested in our county. What’s really going on with ICE and our federal judges that hear these cases. Deportation must not be happening all of the time.
Lafayette
I’d like to comment to the Citizen Satisfaction Survey showing that perceptions of police and government now show a distinct divergence along ethnic lines. With African Americans and Hispanics showing precipitous drops in both.
My concern is that once ethnic communities begin to have this perception, things can snowball … with routine encounters with police being misinterpreted as racial profiling or harassment, when really it’s just that you were driving poorly or your music really was too loud. Soon, people become uncooperative or even impolite to police officers, and actual conflicts begin to occur.
This often happens in urban areas. And it severely limits the police’s ability to investigate crimes where the victim or the perpetrator is from one of the communities where trust has broken down. I would hate to have this happen here because our Police force and our Police Chief do not deserve this barrier to good police work. And the vast majority of citizens here in PWC do not deserve to see our public safety compromised because a few activists, two politicians, and a lobbying firm decided to use us a lab rats.
corr: am realist and know we can NOT deport *ALL OF* those residing in our country illegally.
For once I’ll speak in Michael’s defense.
With the reports that came out yesterday, I can understand why today is not a good day for him. I would be angry too if I’d been led to believe that the Immigration Resolution was necessary and some how worth the tremendous cost to taxpayers, to our economy, to our reputation, and to our public safety. He probably feels duped right now and is just lashing out as a coping mechanism.
Michael, perhaps you could take a night off from blogging and try to absorb the new information, starting with the fact that 98.4 percent of the crime committed this county is by legal residents.
You see, right now we have new information to discuss, so there is going to be less of an appetite for the usual arguments you like to make.
Michael,
I don’t think anyone is asking for anything more than the opportunity afforded to your wife. It’s not that we are for lawlessness, anachary we just would like the laws to be more fairly applied. That’s not a crime.
Michael, How dare you come here calling EVERYONE on this blog out when you are married to a woman who is out of status! How hypocritical of you. You have basically said you want us to go to jail. For what? For thinking?
Most of us feel that enforcement of immigration is a federal responsibility. We think that because of federal laws. Of course we want criminals out of our community. We are trying to find reasonable solutions to problems rather than running people out of town, putting up concertina wire perimeters and standing guard with assault weapons as suggested by some.
The data for this thread came straight from the county BOCS meeting. I am going to ask you to not come here making threats. If you want to participate in the discussion that’s one thing. I do not want you here if you are going to threaten people with jail time because they don’t think like you do. That is just too rude. I will ignore you if it happens again and I believe others will follow suit. You have just been over the top.
I used to think you were a decent dude. Tonight you haven’t been.
I just went up to read some of Michael’s comments in full. I think the jail time threat is pretty darn funny. Usually people bring up thought police to make fun of others, not themselves, but whatever. But I agree with him that this blog has had a big impact on the community, as well as on public policy. I would argue that April 29th would not have happened without this blog. Congratulations ladies.
Does the following comment bother anyone else?
How would a land line tell you any more about a person’s status? Corey seems a bit obsessed.
Actually, it’s even worse than that M-H. I watched the replay. That summation above is being kind, very kind, to Chairman Stewart:
Stewart said, “I notice that 4.5 percent of the interviews were done in Spanish.”
Guterbock said, “Yes.”
Stewart said, “Do we know whether those persons were legal residents or not?”
For those still watching… get your bullet proof vests on. 😉
There’s a lot of people out there who think, like Michael, that jail time should be meted out to those whose politics make them feel threatened. Greg Letiecq comes to mind. National Security is their excuse to advocate the imprisonment of those who dissent.
Luckily, we were bequeathed a constitution to protect ourselves from such people. Unfortunately, we’ve taken this inheritance for granted and have squandered much of it through neglect. Despite the undeniable evidence of it’s benefits, some people even think it’s fashionable to turn their nose up at the notion of a constitution.
We’ve got to pay attention.
http://www.roadblock.org/federal/casefed.htm
Supreme Court Justice Douglas. The prophetic voice in the wilderness:
Chris what is bullet proof vests code for?
NotGL,
Mr. L spoke at Citizens’ Time, and then a second time for a Public Hearing regarding zoning of Orchard Glen. While speaking regarding the property which is on Coverstone Drive(new part). He started out by saying “Glad I decided to hang today for a little while”. Then he went to on to say that this property was near a Day Labor Site, with graffit, trash, and soiled diapers. He then proceeded to say they had offered to volunteer for the Clean Community Council to clean this property up. He said the CCC told them only the police could abate graffiti. Then onto say he’d talked to a friend that’s a PWPD officer, and happens to be a member of the GA. I don’t know why he just didn’t go ahead and all out drop Jackson’s name. Anyways, he said “what would help this property would be some barbed wire and machine gun turrets”. So, I was being a smart a$$ by saying get your bullet proof vest on.
Then Mr. Duecaster spoke regarding the property as well, and he said he used to walk his doberman with a loaded gun. Now, he doesn’t walk with a loaded gun. He agreed the with the barbed wire concept and thought the last comment was a bit overstated regarding the machine guns. But he certainly took exception to Mr. L’s machine gun comment.
I hope this helps. Sorry, for the long version. I don’t think everyone understood Mr. L spoke two times last night once at Citizens’ Time & then for a Public Hearing.
Okay. Thanks Chris. Good to know the implication was WORSE than I thought. Don’t know why I’m surprised. I suppose I should be happy the Duecaster Disaster is threatening us with single shot weapons instead of automatic weapons.
I’ve heard that line before though. I think one of the anti-immigrant clones use that same rehearsed tag line about walking with guns before we trashed our county budget and our reputation, and without guns afterward in a Washington Post article.
In both cases, the implication is brown skin people make me want to reach for my gun. Sad.
NotGL,
In all fairness I don’t think Mr. Duecaster was threatening with guns he was just exercising his right to bear arms, and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the sole-spokesperson of a grassroots non-profit organization wanting to solve the problem with marchine gun turrets. This is alarming!! And yet they wonder why some view the HSM Crime Prevention Unit as borderline vigilantism. I really don’t think all the members of HSM would approve of that comment being made on their behalf. I know I sure wouldn’t want that said for me.
The beauty of a democracy, Michael, is that we don’t have to just shut up and take it. You tell us that even in opening our mouths and giving our opinions a voice, we hurt society. You are a big believer in the democratic process, but your hope that some of us will be silenced seems more characteristic of totalitarianism.
You seem to not want us to express an opinion against what you see as the majority. Until said “majority” passes a law via the democratic process that says I can’t speak or write when I see a social injustice, I will keep on talking. I am sorry that you want to put me in prison for it.
So lets see, if we spend tons of money to eliminate gangs as an example, and six months after we start we find zero gangs, then was the effort a failure or a huge success? From your point of view it would be a failure yet the problem was eliminated making it a success in my book.
So SA which is it, your position that zero gangs exist or LePinhead’s position that they’re thriving in portions of the Gainesville District? Your “success” is belied by LePinhead’s assertions of multiple gangs that make it unsafe to aid Community Services. Or could it be that the position depends on the issue at hand and that the truth is a flexible concept dependent on which set of “facts” you choose to use in support of your position. Seems like you guys are all over the board and don’t believe anyone will catch on to your inconsistencies. Your serve.
That’s my point. First you have to establish the level of a problem before you can determine if the solution was successful. No determination was made about the level of criminal illegals before the Resolution, and so the low numbers could reflect that either there were few or they all got out of town because of the Resolution. It’s your pick, but I’m sure those numbers would be steadily increasing had the Resolution not been implemented!
SA, you don’t think that the construction jobs drying up has anything to do with people leaving town? Why stay here if there is no work.
I miss your point here. Are you saying that there are no gangs left?
Chris, I don’t object to people bearing arms in an appropriate setting. You have to wonder though when the subject comes up repeatedly with the same individual. If I walk around with a loaded gun and a doberman, and continually talked about it, what would you think about my …stability? I don’t think that is how I would want to live my life.
SA, lets make sure I have this straight, by your standards it is appropriate to base public policy, in this case funding, on an unsupported foundation and then determine that it is a success, again without factual support, because the subsequent circumstances may or just as likely MAY NOT have anything to do with the funded policy initiatives. Even if that is that is the case, what is the upper limit you are willing to place on funding such fiscally unsound practices? Sounds like you’re getting a little wishy washy here, was there a real problem that needed a solution (as you have asserted before) or is more about posturing based on an issue that had “No determination … about the level of criminal illegals”, your words not mine. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree that there is/was a problem that needed to be addressed, I just take issue with the process used to address it and the manner in which it was funded to the detriment of other priorities. Umpteen millions for a policy which may or may not have had a measurable impact and no money for a relatively inexpensive senior daycare program, poor public policy, political posturing and electioneering at its worst.