NOTE: This began as an open thread, but has become a discussion of the House of Representatives failing to pass the Wall Street Bailout, and the Dow Jones dropping 777 points as a result.
There is no Prince William County Board of Supervisors meeting scheduled for tomorrow. The next meeting is scheduled for October 7, 2008.
I’m surprised no one here is talking about the Washington Post article yesterday. Wally Covington made a clarifying statement, and he looks great in his mug shot!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/26/AR2008092604143.html
Corey’s statement in the last paragraph takes the cake:
We will move on when he stops lying about what the ‘Immigration Resolution’ has done for the county. He and John Stirrup are going around telling various groups and organizations that since passing the resolution, crime is down 20%, we are saving scads of money from reduction in ESOL which is 50% of the educational costs. Lie after lie after lie. Set the record straight, stop the lies, and I will be more than willing to move on.
Corey Stewart is doing ‘pigeon talk.’ He flew by, crapped things up, and now wants to fly off? I don’t think so.
Okay, so let’s go to the score sheet.
The Board voted 5 to 3 to allow discussion of the Duecaster appointment. With only Stewart, Stirrup, and Covington dissenting. That means May, Nohe, Principi, Caddigan, and Jenkins all think that the county’s reputation might be negatively impacted by Duecaster being given an official position, and that the discussion should take place.
Score one for Prince William County!
Then, Corey Stewart blocked his fellow Board members from viewing video of Mr. Duecaster’s more shocking speeches during Citizens time. This was an unprecedented move to force a vote before pertinent information could be reviewed.
Score one for the Anti-immigrant Crowd.
Then, three Board Members, Principi, Caddigan, and Jenkins voted AGAINST the appointment, in an ALMOST unprecedented split vote on something that is normally a matter of routine.
Score one for Prince William County!
And, Marty Nohe, who voted in favor of the appointment, did so only after stating that Mr. Duecaster’s hateful comments before the Board were “deeply offensive” to him, and that he was voting to approve the appointment out of respect to his fellow Board member Mr. Stirrup, not out of respect to his appointee.
Point for Prince William County!
But, the official tally of 5 to 3 is a victory for the Anti-immigrant Cowd. They have their man on the Human Services Committee.
The score as of two weeks ago was 3 for Prince William County. 2 for the Anti-Immigrant Crowd.
And today, Wally Covington makes a public statement saying that this is a matter of freedom of speech, and that Mr. Duecaster should not be judged based on things he has said at Citizens’ Time or things he has written. But, he also says in an interview that Duecaster would not have been his choice. I score that as a half point for Prince William County, and a significant one because Mr. Covington has shown that he is responsive to concerns from citizens who object to prejudice infecting our county government.
So, the current score on the Duecaster Diaster Part Two is:
Prince William County: 3.5
Anti-immigrant Crowd: 2
Moon-Howler, perhaps I am too much of an optimist. But the fact that Corey Stewart now wants to “move-on” from his one and only campaign issue is also a good sign. It means that he may be willing to get out of the campaign mode and into being a team player on the Board. Okay. Maybe that is too optimistic. But doesn’t it at least show that a continuous fight on the battle lines of anti-immigrant sentiment is no longer his strong suit. That he sees it as a losing battle now, one that he no longer wishes to fight?
I read that and thought, “Hmm, Stewart is probably a little pissed off at Stirrup for dragging him into a losing battle once again.” Their coalition of two is beginning to fracture. Meanwhile, Covington is shifting over to the side of the 5 Supervisors who have the county’s long term interests at heart.
Are we cutting off our noses to spite our faces by rejecting the Wall Street bailout? It should be interesting to follow the foreign press since US citizens seem to think we operate in a vacuum. Are our politicians a bunch of ignoramuses or are they doing a smart thing? Is the attitude of “I’m not getting bailed out, why should you?” intelligent or merely judgemental?
I think I would rather sit back and think about how the house Republicans just handed Obama the election. My God! House Republicans just came up and blamed the Nancy Pelosi speech for the reason of the EESA bill defeat.
Boo-f’ing-Hoo! Are these people willing to put our country at financial risk over who said what to whom? When the house Democrats are working with George Bush for the good of the country, you know there is a crisis.
I am totally disgusted with the house Republicans. All I read is how badly people want to kick Wall Street in the ass. What I dont think they realize is that they are kicking themselves in the ass. The gravity of the situation worsens.
I applaud Covington for this, and by the way, he has never been part of the Stewart/Letiecq/Stirrup cabal.
If you look at his positions over time, he has had the right idea with the Immigration Resolution. He spoke out against it early on, saying that we were getting in over our heads trying to deal with a Federal issue. He supported Chief Deane and said “we need those cameras” to protect against racial profiling law suits.
And, most importantly, he immediately joined the Supervisors who stood up to Corey on April 29th after the 4 to 4 vote.
For Covington, it was either we protect the county’s reputation and its bottom line by installing the cameras, or we change the policy so that it is no longer a racial profiling trap. It was never about siding with Help Save Manassas against the rest of the county. He’s a practical leader who doesn’t get caught up in the emotionalism that has hampered our ability to do the people’s business.
But my God.
Corey Stewart want’s to “move on” beyond his “crackdown” on illegal immigration????
Then why does he go on tour with the Anti-Immigrant Lobby and do media days to promote their anti-immigrant agenda? Why is he a poster boy for destroying local economies and hampering the ability of police officers to keep a community safe all for the sake of political grandstanding????
When he stops the publicity tour, lying about the “success” of this policy disaster, THEN we’ll be able to move on.
Oh, yeah, and it would help if “Weasel John” Stirrup would stop appointing self-proclaimed racists (who later take back their words) to our county committees. If Duecaster himself sees the need to back-peddle from his own quotes, don’t you think the Board should be a little concerned that Stirrup has now lassoed themselves to this rabid loose cannon?
McCain made a big mistake I’m afraid by “parachuting” into the negotiations on Capital Hill just as they were coming to a resolution. He never should have taken the advice of his has-been Bush/Rove campaign advisers.
Because of the parachute job, he was forced to come up with some way to seem relevant to the debate. That meant siding with the extremists in the House who see threats and anger as the best approach to crucial negotiation process. By humoring these nut jobs … who were never there for McCain during the primary by the way and have been lukewarm in support since his primary victory … he emboldened them to sit on their duffs and just say no to saving our economy.
I think these ultra right wingers in the House want McCain to lose so they can say “I told you so” for not nominating Romney or Tancredo. A curse on all their houses.
I think life is going to get really dicey. The house ATM has dried up, soon to be followed by the credit card bailout. More mortgages will go belly up, particularly condos. More stores will close. More people will become unemployed. Good luck buying a car on credit. Think again about retirement.
I believe an adjustment to the way a lot of us have lived for the last decade is probably in order but I’m not sure we’re prepared for the magnitude of adjusting we’ll have to make. It’s really not a phenomenon that Manassans, Virginians, US residents will get to make on our own.
Censored, when Congress hears the uproar from their constituents about all that you mentioned above, they will pass a version of this bailout that is similar to the one they rejected if not exactly the same. I predict stock market will recover today’s losses by the end of the week, and in the mean time, some savvy and opportunistic speculators will buy up stocks, bonds, and annuities while they are down and then ride the wave of recovery to riches at the expense of those who jump out of the market because of political theater.
WHWN, I think they’ll have to act quickly and not sit on a solution hoping for a little political gain prior to the election. I’m not sure the foreign press will be kind for long. (Our stock is diversified and I hope it rides out this mess – probably not going to get much of a gain though.)
“Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers,” said Antonovich.
http://www.hometownstation.com/local-news/la-county-welfare-2008-09-26-03-26-3.html
The GOP House members know this is necessary. It WILL happen. They haven’t heard the other side of the argument yet, but they will very soon. Here’s the bottom line: Even small companies, even the “Main Street” businesses need to have solvent banks in order to do business. A lot of people buy things, like cars and furniture, based on loans and financing, that is not possible without solvent banks. There IS no Main Street vs. Wall Street when you’re talking about liquidity … the very life blood of our economy from the bottom to the top. We need this bailout. Everyone knows it. It WILL happen.
If you are an equity investor, now is the time to buy. My broker is going to make a ton of money for me this week. If you money, start buying commodities, start buying stock in the blue chip companies. As I said, the market will make up these losses by the end of the week.
There is no need to panic unless you are John McCain.
Sorry, but I don’t accept Wally’s little statement as one point for justice. He’s my supervisor. I expect him to use his brain and think, hey! “Maybe this really does have nothing to do with free speech and more to do with Duecaster’s inability to DO HIS JOB!”
I’m highly disappointed in him.
BTW, Shelly, that IS a good pic of Wally.
Let’s watch and see. I heard Donald Trump on Fox today and he pointed out that everytime something happens positive in this country the oil prices skyrocket, i.e. lowering interest rates. He also pointed out when there are negatives happening then oil prices tank. Interesting points. When the bail out did not pass, oil prices plummeted.
He is for some type of bail out but feels like OPEC is draining our blood and lower oil prices may stimulate the economy.
I plan to follow this to see if he is right. He is not one of my favorites but he is a financial whiz
info,
I’d listen to economist Stephen Fuller before you continue down the path of blaming illegals for our current crisis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oiwJ-_BipU
Info.,
Or this video ( propaganda or not)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds&feature=related
I think this is where the real FEAR is coming from and I listened to the debates this morning and I will tell you more than not, they did not like how it is being run on FEAR. I heard so many analogies today. More or less this is what I heard and you could hear the FEAR with anger in their voices as they spoke: one was about the bill was given to us like a pair of bookends with nothing in the middle. Another, I always heard while growing up, that if you dig deep enough you find China. The other was my favorite Benjamin quote about giving up a little liberty to gain security. Another was how it would have given the Sec of Treasure MEGA power with over ridding future powers to come back and fight against and so on and so on….
The collected idea of fear from what I gathered, was that we were heading right into socialism.
I also heard time and time again of the way it was presented as a crisis and that ALL eyes would be on us -Mr. Bush- that it created more pressure and a problem and cause for panic, again driven by fear..
I of course have no answers but this is very scary and just wanted to give my take on what I heard in the debates!
I also agree with WHWN, that they will come up with something and we will see a gain by the end of the week….who knows…..
Any pic that doesn’t show Wally sitting on a couple of phone books at the big boy table is probably a good pic.
Mom,
What happened to the mom that said they’d backed off of those kinds of comments? Or did that just apply to attire?
tisk, tisk
That was a good video that I posted earlier but this is the ONE I meant to post
and at 37 seconds -the gist of what I was hearing with all the analogies today….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAADyc6t4nY&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/?p=4944
Sorry, just can’t resist when it comes to Wally, he looks so much taller on tv.
I refuse to comment on Wally’s photo even though I want to. And Katherine, that’s why I gave PWC only half a point for Wally’s statement, more for the fact that he acknowledged the concerns of his constituents than that he fully repudiated the comments of Robert Duecaster.
But anyway, we are facing an economic crisis people!!! I didn’t know that when I drew up the score card above.
I don’t know what to say because I don’t know much about macro economics. I was initially one of those super angry people like Mackie, seeing it as another fat cat pay day. But that was when it was President Bush’s idea (or his apointees at least). Now that it seems there is a real consensus that this bailout is a necessary thing, I don’t want to spout off about how pissed off I was and still am.
That’s the irony about “trickle down” economics. The theory was that the benefits of huge tax cuts and corporate welfare payments were supposed to trickle down to everyday people. But what we’ve seen is that the fat cats have soaked up all the profits, and just let the pain trickle down to the everyday person.
Still pissed off, but I hope they do this deal.
I think House members who voted against the bailout assumed that there would be enough votes to pass the bill without them voting for it. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted tell their angry constituents that they were against the bailout, but still have the bailout.
I didn’t know about the Wall Street nose dive when I posted about Wally’s photo either! But they changed the title of the thread and now I look like a bimbo!
I think it’s interesting that WHWN thinks any Republican that doesn’t support John McCain 100 percent is a “nut job.”
I think anyone who still supports John McCain at this point is, well, I won’t say “nut job” but no really thinking about our children and their future.
If you think about the past few weeks. When the focus of the nation was lipsticks, pigs, and pit bulls, McCain was winning. When the focus of the nation was real life situations, our future, the strength of the nation both economically and our national security, Obama surges ahead.
I hope the lipstick types of discussion never come back. We can’t afford to decide this election on trivial misrepresentations and attack lines.
With the last video I posted, it just makes me more and more grounded in my OPINION that the immigration debate was a DISTRACTION. Why now after decades our borders are no more secure even with 9/11? The outrage and fear that SPARKED this whole thing and who to blame.
Blame the illegals for EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not a supporter of illegals-just as the MAJORITY(99% and I am not even sure who I would crown the 1% )on this board .The people on this board that get accused of being such, actually has it right that we are blaming the WRONG cause of the effect!
I agree with the lady in the video and I understand the message she is sending out in the video. I heard it shared in today’s debate by the majority, even those that votes yes today.
There most certainly is corruption and it sounds like a secret (insider) handshake.
If you stop and ask why our borders have not been secured but yet we have more unconstitutional acts occurring, striping our rights away……as scary as all of this is, I feel it was the right decision TODAY. There are to many unknowns and it is all based on fear.
I could be loosing my job as it is based ( as I am sure-everyone else) on credit. We have been treading water and I am scared. With that said, I still say it was the right decision.
More breaking news from CNN: The chorus of Republican strategists and pundits calling for Sarah Palin to step down is growing. Go to the Cafferty file on CNN to weigh in.
http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/
Red Dawn, you got it right. The whole immigration thing was a designed distraction from the war in Iraq. The distraction was in place so that Republicans could win on the hysterical anti-immigrant vote just in case the “surge” didn’t work.
Then in 2007, with the media’s help, they were able to spin the success of the “surge” as the reason for the Suni Awakening and the Shia militias being bribed into no longer shooting at U.S. soldiers (instead of the reverse). So, they didn’t need the immigration issue to win (or so they thought). Now it turns out only 7 percent of Americans list Iraq as the number one issue.
It’s the economy stupid all over again, and McCain is the LAST candidate they would have chosen if the election was going to hinge on the economy.
Gong! And it’s too late to bring back immigration as a distraction. If they tried, it wouldn’t work.
I’m not sure if this thread is about the bailout or PWC but here goes…last week I read in the Times that a big portion of the problem economically had to do with derivatives (sp?) According to the article NO ONE understands how derivatives work, including those at Standards and Poor etc. So I called my sister the Ph.D. in econ and asked her what derivatives were. Did she understand them…NO. In fact she told me the document on how to write a derivative was 800 pages long, and there were only a handful of people in this country (including Warren Buffet) that had any knowledge of how they work. In the Times article, Warren Buffet was quoted years ago trashing the use of derivatives. So basically some obscure math equation was misinterpreted by many, and the result is the mess we’re in now.
NGL,
“Red Dawn, you got it right. The whole immigration thing was a designed distraction from the war in Iraq”
LOL, and when that fails blame it on the fat ( broads) kid.
Here is Ron Paul’s take on today . I thought he was the ONLY one speaking up but I have to say after listening to today’s debate ( had it on in my office and co-workers payed attention) I have a renewed faith in our government. People do not trust our government, I know I don’t but as bad as it sounds, scary as it maybe ( with everything to loose) I feel good…
breaking out the video ( or at least going down dancing with the glass half FULL ) lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypdqcHAyvIQ
opps..forgot about Ronnie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFh6PU6qM9Q&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/?p=4962
Here’s to the Fat Broads, the ones important enough to blame and, er, call fat!
Sista KG,
I guess fat means storage and a plan B 😉 we have time….lol
My half empty glass, keeps filling up 🙂
Yeah, when everyone is starving…YIKES! They’ll sell us by the pound??????
😉
I don’t know what would be worse, a penny for thoughts? One way or another…
it’s all good 🙂 fast in death maybe better than slow 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atZ_0Akm8h4
WhyHereWhyNow, you stated:
Exactly!!
There are two things going on here with Corey Stewart: (1) He doesn’t want to “move on”, he wants to run away from the embarassment of reality hitting him square in the nose due to what, at last, is the exposure of the matter for what it really is: racial intolerance; (2) his interest in the “immigration issue” has nothing to do with combating crime in PWC or seeking PWC’s best interests, etc., but has to do with his jumping on a hot political topic in order to advance his political aspirations. That’s why he’s been doing speaking engagements before Congress and at other political venues. Unfortunately, he fails to realize that his hot topic has cooled significantly because, as has already been discussed, the issue isn’t about “illegal immigration”. It’s about racial intolerance. Though perhaps there’s hope that, eventually, somehow, he’ll figure it out.
DB, I think the general theme of the thread is the bailout, but you answered your own question by bringing up derivatives. Most of us don’t know enough about macro economics to say anything more than it really sucks that we were put in this situation. You know, before Bush took office, all I really expected from government was to take care of things like this, keep us safe, and give us a fair chance to move up in the world.
The alarming and disheartening thing about the Bush years is that we can’t trust this administration to get anything right. FEMA was supposed to help people in event of a natural disaster, but after a few years of Bush and his cronies running the country, we get the Katrina disaster.
It’s been a long time since the Great Depression. We’ve had a lot of Presidents the, Republican and Democrat, who grew the economy or at least didn’t destroy it. Now we’re told that if we don’t foot the bill to fix the disaster, we’re going to see all banks close and we won’t get our pay checks and maybe even lose our jobs.
Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to believe that your President was competent, up to speed on the issues facing us in modern times, and not in the pocket of Wall Street big wigs, Oil Barons, and war profiteers? There’s really only one way to get out from under these corporate pigs, it’s to elect a President who’s power base comes from the people. He won’t be beholden to the corporate pigs, he’ll be beholden to the people.
They used to be able to make the argument that we should just trust the country to the corporate pigs. We’ll never believe them again.
Shelly, I hope that Palin stays. It’s another example of disastrously stupid decisions by Republican leaders. They couldn ‘t find a single woman in the United States who was qualified for this job? In a time when the fate of the country, its economy, its national security were all hanging in the balance, the only consideration was how best to fool America’s women into voting gender before country?????
Off the subject but NOT, a different direction…..I think we should question the promotion of REVERSE mortgages- (that was a red flag in my head just like sub prime) also the eminent domain laws….
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/hecm/rmtopten.cfm
” A reverse mortgage is a special type of home loan that lets a homeowner convert a portion of the equity in his or her home into cash. The equity built up over years of home mortgage payments can be paid to you. But unlike a traditional home equity loan or second mortgage, no repayment is required until the borrower(s) no longer use the home as their principal residence. HUD’s reverse mortgage provides these benefits, and it is federally-insured as well.”
YES, there are stipulations but it is FEDERALLY INSURED….
My RED flag at that time, even thought the market was ARTIFICIALLY inflated,WHY did they back this? Also, if I am not able to get to it tonight look at the CHANGES of eminent domain laws …..
An absolutely disgusting display of political fear on display in Congress today. A Republican President who cannot get more than 1/3 of his party in the House to support a plan to avoid economic disaster and Democratic Congressional leadership who can’t supply the votes to a bill they declared as a “deal”. Interesting that the number of Republican votes that switched (12) after a speech by Pelosi is the exact number that would have passed the bill by one vote. Political games played with citizen’s future – a 770 point drop in the market. For the first time in history, over a trillion, yes, a trillion dollars of equity was lost in the stock market.
Doesn’t anyone on Capitol Hill have any political courage at all?
As I have written previously, nothing of any significance will be decided regardless of whom is elected President in November unless any courage is displayed by those spineless losers in Congress. I am disgusted with each and everyone one of those self serving cowards.
Lucky Duck,
I totally agree with you about it being driven on fear.
I listened to it for myself and I can say I MORE shocked to find out that NANCY. P. is taking the blame. I call BULLSHIT, as I heard it myself and not selective hearing…
Both parties are to blame. This crisis may have originated on Wall Street but it is now spreading to the average citizen. Anyone checked their 401(k) today? How about your IRA? Yes, its a Wall Street bailout, but how many on this blog have those plans I mentioned above? So we refuse to help Wall Street and we hurt ourselves and our children’s future (anyone got a college fund with stocks in it?).
The ineffectiveness of a President is a shame, but when we also have an ineffective Congress, we as a nation cannot function.
Lucky Duck, if there are really 12 people in Congress who would decide to hurt America because Nancy Pelosi hurt their feelings, perhaps we all need to write them soothingly complimentary emails. More likely, they just needed some way to deflect the blame from the GOP which could only bring a third of their caucus to the table with both of the Bush/McCain twins begging them for it.
“Doesn’t anyone on Capitol Hill have any political courage at all?
As I have written previously, nothing of any significance will be decided regardless of whom is elected President in November unless any courage is displayed by those spineless losers in Congress. I am disgusted with each and everyone one of those self serving cowards.”
***** okay, how do I say this without” homeland security “or any other ( UNCONSTITUTIONAL)authority PLAY BOOK, that maybe….JUST maybeeeeeeee……the answer is in the question;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7B4laX1E70&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/?p=4944
Mackie,
I will take this advice from my hubby( video below)…BUT it is soooooooooo hard when you SEE wrong ( with HEART driven RESEARCH and willing to accept the fact I might be wrong)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsjZWlRVvo
My hubby/best friend/TRUE love… sure knows DAMN well, that I cannot keep my mouth shut when I TRULY believe in something that is right.-EVEN if it means OUR/MY best interest at risk. I am NOT political, just real 🙂 you take over red rover …..
Our economy is going to be better in the long run without the bailout.
Here, look at the amazing things some people are doing all on their own. On a day when so many people think we are finished, I listen to the people cheer in the background of this video and I know, we’re only just beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eATJS-aKrD8
I think this is where real economic recovery is to be found. In our own ingenuity and amazing potential.
Mackie,
I GET it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lkBc-W7emI
it was too EASY to stand up for TRUTH and truth comes with faith…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy9tq_XwVrU