By special request, the third and last presidential debate: Who won, who made good points?
Is there anyone out there still undecided?
We have spent a lot of time here discussing hate speech and behavior. How did the candidates do addressing these issues?
Pontificate please.
Sorry this is so long…I think this was the most interesting debate to date. I thought that Bob Schieffer did an excellent job as a moderator, and his questions were pretty juicy.
McCain started out by talking about how “hurt and angry” Americans were…about a hundred times. Then we had the pleasure of hearing Joe Sixpack morph into Joe the Plumber. I suspect Suzy Homemaker will be the next generic American to enter the limelight via McCain-Palin.
McCain said, at one point, “Why would anyone want to raise taxes?” This from the man who promotes taxing healthcare benefits? He delivered the “I am not Bush,” line well…you could hear the prep of a winning sound byte in that line.
I really got interested when the topic of negative campaigning was brought up. It amazed me that McCain had the cajones to blame the public’s outrageous comments about Obama on Obama for not agreeing to all the town hall meetings McCain wanted to have. Really?
I love that Obama countered with “Americans don’t care much about our hurt feelings;” it made him look positively mature and confident next to McCain’s petulant child. I also thought Obama responded well to the charges about Ayers and such. I love that he basically said, don’t listen to these guys…if you want to know who my advisors and associates are, I will tell you. Additionally, by saying that the ads tell “more about your campaign than me,” he again rose above the crap hurled at him by the McCain-Palin campaign.
McCain started in on some nonsense, implying that Obama was being offensive to all of his supporters. It sounded like it came from a malfunctioning robot, as it did not exactly compute with what was just said by Obama. McCain’s odd smug grin, crazy cackle, continuous blinking, and rolling of eyes were REALLY getting to me by that point. He said to Joe the Plumber, “Joe, you’re rich. Congratulations,” and then said, “and that’s what I’m all about, leaving money in your pocket [Joe].” Yes, John, that’s just the point. You are about leaving money in the rich man’s pocket, as opposed to the middle class or poor man’s pocket.
Obama impressed me with his talk about a “realistic timeframe” for reducing oil dependency, his use of language that respected and validated both sides of the abortion debate, and his mention several times of specific ways to find “common ground” in different topics.
I don’t agree with either candidate on some education solutions. They both need to get more input from the trained educators themselves on this issue. Competition can backfire. I know of one area school which is receiving increasing, out of control pressure about its test scores. Many of the staff members are reportedly suffering from the stressful conditions, which are negatively affecting their job performance. I need to be convinced that our educators won’t be bullied in a competition situation, and current conditions don’t bode well.
In any case, I am still strongly for Obama, but I am concerned that McCain’s negativity and face-making, however ridiculous, will come off as strength in the eyes of his support base. Hopefully, it won’t be enough to turn things around for him.
DG, I love your enthusiasm about this election. Most people I talk to act like they have to have a root canal when discussing this election.
McCain isn’t a bad person. He is desperate. I think Obama definitely won.
You’re right, MH, he ain’t all bad. I liked McCain a lot more before this election…when I didn’t have to worry about him being elected. There were some things he said and did in the past that I loved. The way he rejected the ridiculousness of country music’s censorship during the Senate Commerce Committee hearings was absolutely wonderful. However, there are so many statements and ideas of his with which I don’t agree…but I think I’ve already detailed that:)
Sorry, but most of Obama’s replies sounded like his advertisements word for word. When asked about the negative campaign issue he launched into a totally different subject at which point I thought the moderator should have forced him back on track. McCain definitely showed more fight than he’s shown in past debates. If they discussed immigration, I missed that part. I do find it interesting how a person’s hard set opinion can force one to see absolutely no good in one person and yet absolute praise for another as with DG’s long opening post. When people are that totally biased I tend to stop reading as I know I won’t see a fair review. No one is totally perfect or imperfect. Those types of opinions aren’t worth the electrons they’re written with. There were moments when both candidates agreed. Now that must have driven you all mad since anything McCain says is totally wrong and BS in your one sided opinions.
Why is it that Obama keeps talking about the plight of the ‘working class’ people as if one should be ashamed that they are a member of that group. He’s always talking about helping them as if anyone with a college degree is the bad guy. He then goes on to talk about providing help for college to the ‘working class’ as if they are all unhappy with their jobs and wish they were better educated. There is absolutely no shame in being a laborer. We can’t survive in a nation of only doctors and lawyers. To me a person who is capable of working with their hands is every bit as valuable as one who works with their brains. Their outcomes may not at first appear as astounding at times, but I still marvel at bridge and building construction. Obama should be telling these folks that doing the best job they can in whatever they are doing is what they should be proud of instead of talking down to them as if they are somehow failures, and his main purpose is to help them out of their miserable lifestyle. To me he comes off as very condescending.
Best debate of the series, but still not as good as an Open Debate would be (opendebates.org for details). McCain was more alive and in touch than the other two debates; and Obama still crushed him. A complete slam dunk for Obama and the end of the McCain campaign.
McCain was incoherent after the first 20 minutes, unable to even keep basic facts straight and bouncing between his various contradictory messages with no smooth transitions.
Has anyone else confused Justices Alito and Breyer? Autism with Downes Syndrome? Joe the Plumber for a Corporate Executive? Racist incitements to violent rhetoric by his own running-mate for independent critics of supporters in ball caps?
Wouldn’t you expect the candidates to read each other’s tax and health care plans before the debate for opposition research?
Anyone else forget the name of our next first lady?
WTF was McCain talking about with his ball-cap wearing veteran supporters anyway? Frankly, I think he’s forgotten some meds and it’s quite sad.
Expect Obama to grow his lead by 3-5% after this one.
SA, my comments must be invisible to you. You are making me feel like Michael.
I think I have said time and time again how difficult this election cycle has been for me. Not everyone on this blog is a total Obama supporter. Ask Alanna about that one.
Scott, thanks for pointing out the obvious errors stated by McCain. Those were embarrassing. The autism/Downs syndrome mistake is driving me insane. He hasn’t done it once. He has done it many times. Someone please correct this man.
Thank you DG for your comprehensive analysis of the debate.
I thought this was the best debate of the three. I thought Obama was very controlled with his responses. If he gets angry he hides it well. Do not know if that is good or bad. Sometimes I like to see a little passion, but respectful passion. McCain, on the other hand, bothered me a bit. His body language, eye rolling, smirks and tone of his voice seemed a little disrespectful.
I am still one of those independent undecided’s. I hope I am ready and confident in my choice on November 4.
I am more sceptical today about politicians than I have ever been before. I really feel like we need to clean house from top to bottom. The President is an important position but Congress is where the real power lies. We all need to be vigilant with whom we elect in those positions as well.
Agree Moonhowler. This is the first election since my first in 1976 where I have considered not voting. I don’t know what to do. I voted for Carter, Regean, Clinton,little Bush and Kerry.
I used to be a McCain fan but his relentless need to be President has clearly overridden any of his former self.
Either Obama is one of those very smart people conditioned to hold back or he lacks depth – I’ve not figured that one out.
Pallin leaves me speechless –
I am happy with Biden.
At this point I can only choose a candidate based on what their agenda is – me or them. No more Dick Cheney’s for me. Republicans take my money and keep it for themselves. Democrats take it and give it to someone else. Both stink but does one FEEL better than the other?
We have our locals in it for themselves at high cost to the community – is altruism being genetically erased?
Sad sad sad…
Second Alamo:
“He then goes on to talk about providing help for college to the ‘working class’ as if they are all unhappy with their jobs and wish they were better educated. ”
YOu should take a tour of the Rust Belt some time and tell me how “happy” thsoe people are clinging on to whatever jobs they have and trying to survive. Obama wasn’t and does NOT look down upon them. I grew up in teh great lakes area and I’ll tell you NOW, times are tougher than they have been and that says A LOT. Their economies are in the crapper and the only people left are the blue collar people who didn’t have the education to GET OUT and do something better. Trust me, Obama was speaking to the people of the Rust Belt when he spoke of returning jobs to those areas and helping out the working man, the BLUE COLLAR man/woman who is desperately trying to stay afloat in these tough times. Apparantly you’re one of the well-to-do “compassionate conservatives” who is above the blue collar level to completely miss that point by miles.
Of the three debates, this one was the best. Schiefer asked excellent questions and had great follow-ups.
McCAIN: more aggressive and animated this time. But too aggressive and animated. Was clearly trying too hard. was obviously over-prepped. Too eager, totally overcompensated, and toward the end came off as an angry and bitter old man. A total crybaby (Rep. Lewis hurt my feelings, etc.). To McCain it was more about fighting a fight than debating substantive issues. And that was extremely disappointing.
OBAMA: flat, boring, didn’t fight back very strongly. And it was the smartest thing he could have done. His controlled calm and steady composure served to make him McCain’s emotional polar opposite, and that ended up further magnifying McCain’s anger and contempt for Obama. His substantive answers were spot-on. Successfully waved off McCain’s crybaby attacks as irrelevant, which they are.
Stop the madness and vote Bob Barr.
http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
“Obama should be telling these folks that doing the best job they can in whatever they are doing is what they should be proud of instead of talking down to them as if they are somehow failures, and his main purpose is to help them out of their miserable lifestyle. ”
Obama NEVER said or implied that these people aren’t hard working or PROUD of the work they do. Come tour an engine building plant or carborator assembly plant in the Great lakes Region and DARE imply those people aren’t proud or hard-working. Those peopel aren’t fasilures by a long stretch and Obama wasn’t saying that at ALL. And like I said above, you obviously have NO CLUE of how hard times are for those people with jobs continually disappearing overseas, the comapny losing money and jobs being cut. YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
“To me he comes off as very condescending.”
HA! And MCCain came off as rational, unemotional, cool and collected with his LOUD sighing, eye-rolling and passive-aggressive sniping? Good lord.
Delusions Abound on BVBL –
Bill the Cat for President!
Reference the 1988 Election
–Bill, who had once again been nominated for the presidency with the slogan “This year, why not the worst?”, spent most of the campaign in an alcoholic coma (or, as Milo referred to it, in a “religious fervor”). This left the vice presidential candidate, Opus, to seek endorsements from special interest groups such as the NRA; the American Association of P.O.’d PTA Parents; and the United Cocaine Producers, Smugglers, Pushers and Affiliated Scum.
After receiving dead flowers from ex-lover Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill was shaken out of his coma long enough to go on a shooting rampage using a machine gun donated to him by the NRA.
The Meadow Party spent a large portion of the campaign at the bottom of the popularity polls, ranking just behind the likes of Spuds MacKenzie, George H. W. Bush, and Gumby.
Mid-campaign, Opus was accused of being a liberal. Bloom County lawyer Steve Dallas argued Opus’ case before a Senate committee, but Opus ended up being labeled a liberal anyway. The Meadow Party had no choice but to drop him from the ticket.
Shortly before Election Day, as the party was up forty percent in the polls, a tell-all book about Bill’s many lives was released. This came as a sharp blow to the Meadowcrats.
Fortunately, just days before the election, Walter Mondale contacted the party and offered to join the ticket for a much-needed boost. The offer was accepted, and the Meadowcrats had a Bill-Mondale ticket.
Milo, desperate for a Meadow Party win, secretly contacted CBS News on Election Night, and tried to discredit Bush and Dukakis, but to no avail. The Meadow Party lost its final election.
Retrieved from “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Radical_Meadow_Party”
The visible contrast of Obama’s calm to McCain’s anger and contempt is striking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGzfYOp34d8
Notice the split screen, particularly McCain’s side which displays his angry twitches and contemptuous facial ticks. Obama’s side: cool, calm, collected.
More About Bill the Cat, YOUR Choice for President! Bill is a cat before his time.
–Bill the Cat is a large orange tabby. Originally introduced as a parody of the comic character Garfield, and saying little beyond his trademark responses, “Ack” and “Pbthhh”, he has become something of a blank slate around which various plots have revolved. Numerous strips indicated that his persistent near-catatonic state was the result of drug use or brain damage resulting from once being legally dead and then revived after too long of a period. He’s been a cult leader (“Bhagwan Bill”), televangelist (“Fundamentally Oral Bill”), perennial Presidential candidate (for the National Radical Meadow Party), heavy metal rock star (“Wild Bill Catt”), and, in the last months of the series, had his brain surgically replaced with Donald Trump’s. He has been known to speak on occasion, most notably during the Communist witch-hunt trials he conducted, when he remarked, “Say, you don’t suppose the “Jury Box” is anything like a litter box, do you?”–
Doesn’t look like its dying around here to me!
BVBL Reports, 16. October 2008, 9:08
They forgot to mention the other organizations that reported HSM and company:
1. SPLC
2. ADL
3. Human Rights Commission
4. Civil Rights Commission
5. Religious communities across the county
6. Utah United Way
Hmmmm…..all those groups must be idiots, eh?
I thought the question about the US spending more on education and getting poorer results was a pertinent one. For some reason the Republican party has chosen to label educated Easterners as “elite” and, therefore, somehow undesirable. I’m sorry but I want to see an educated populace who can successfully compete in the world marketplace of ideas and goods. Education, whether at an Ivy League school, a private prep school, a charter school, the public schools, or at home is to be lauded, not denigrated.
Joe Sixpack is seeing many of his former job opportunities shipped overseas. He may need to retrain – perhaps as a nurse. Make the training available.
As for the debate, I thought McCain did a better job than he had done in the first two debates, but he still comes across as grouchy, old, and not very presidential. Obama’s responses were flat, but, as Robb said, it may have been a calculated move to prevent any damage by responding in kind.
Since my friend Second Alamo is clearly frustrated, I will say something nice about McCain.
Like the second debate, McCain started strong. I thought he won the first round of the debate and was winning overall when the “attack” section began. I agree with Robb that Obama’s calmness and coolness has been the perfect foil to McCain’s seething, fidgeting and eye-bulging anger. The “attack” section was extremely damaging for McCain, it was destined to be. And, he never recovered his composure, nor did he recover the full attention of the audience. We were just too distracted by his facial expressions and audible huffs and puffs, even when Obama was talking. I’d like to think that McCain was pushed by his Karl Rove advisors into the “Ayers and Acorn” smear, and that he is, or is becoming, ashamed of it. This mean-spirited lying is beneath him.
Contrary to Second Alamo’s unobservant anguish, I found it refreshing when Obama tried to steer the debate to the real issues facing the country, even when given an opportunity to shoot down the ridiculous charges leveled at him by McCain and Palin. He must have been dying to respond but he waited. Obama had to be prodded by the moderator, two or three times, to directly address McCain’s Ayers and Acorn smear.
It reminded me of a prizefight where one boxer is well past his prime, and no longer quick enough to land any good punches, but trying like the dickens because he knows it’s his last chance to win a title. In this case, with the older fighter being an American hero (a former champion), and the younger fighter being too much of a sportsman to use the full breadth of his skills to assail his fading opponent, there was a wound-up sense of anticipation in the air. When would Obama counter punch after deftly side stepping McCain’s wild round-house fury?
Obama gave McCain two opportunities to back down from this empty Ayres and Acorn attack strategy that had already diminished the McCain legacy, insulted the American electorate, and failed to distract voters from the economic crisis losing points for McCain in all the polls. But McCain would not back down. So, Obama calmly and respectfully dismantled both the Ayers and the Acorn attacks, and then turned them against McCain by saying in effect, “The fact that the centerpiece of your campaign is Ayers and Acorn says more about you than it says about me.” Down goes McCain.
The same think happened again and again. For instance with health care. Obama let McCain’s “how much are you going to fine people” question hang in the air in the last debate, just like the “overhead projector” silliness. Some attacks are too dumb to deserve a response, others are just not accurate and easy for voters to look up. But when McCain awkwardly insisted once again on a response to “how much are you gonna fine Joe The Plummer?” Obama calmly dismantled the argument with the facts (his health care plan would not fine small businesses for anything, but would offer a 50 percent credit for those small businesses that decide to do the right thing and ensure their employees). Then he turned the attack against McCain by dissecting McCain’s health care plan into little pieces of cynicism, deregulation, and failed philosophy.
But here’s the bottom line.
McCain is giving up on undecided voters. He is trying to shore up his base to avoid an all-out landslide. While Obama is offering new ideas, McCain is offering a poorly disguised repackaging of typical Republican talking points from 20 years ago: tax breaks for the wealthy that will benefit the rest of us too because they’ll hire us, deregulation of big businesses, cuts in all spending and investiment other than militarism, and all of this outdated policy buttressed by baseless attacks on the patriotism of their Democratic rival.
Attacks don’t bring in new voters. They’re just not interested in hearing how nasty and angry you can be. They want to know WHY THEY SHOULD VOTE FOR YOU.
No, McCain is no longer interested in bringing in new voters. He just wants to motivate the voters he ALREADY HAS. But there are not enough Freedom Fry Voters to carry McCain to victory. His insultingly unfounded Ayers and Acorn attacks may give his followers more reasons to support him and hate Obama, but these people can only vote once…. What good is it really doing him?
I don’t understand how a candidate trailing by double digits can write off undecided voters. How can you win that way????
I especially enjoyed how McCain pontificated on bringing a culture of life to the nation and then in the next minute dismissed the lives of women who’s health/life would be compromised by a dangerous pregnancy at late term.
Culture of life indeed! (Many restrictions apply).
McCain might not have had to sweat if he had done what he does well, and that is appeal to independent, undecided voters as the moderate he used to be. He gave it all away when he decided that he needed to appeal to the religious right, and thus chosing Palin, rather than continuing on a moderate course.
Moderates don’t vote for a ticket where someone like Palin stands a decent chance of being President.
Just read this: according to CNN, Virginia is now blue.
Poor SecondAlamo. You should consider retiring from this game. Your ideas and tactics are obsolete.
CNN map. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/map/polling/index.html
Parties from both sides are probably the WORST candidates ever. I’ve never been so depressed about the prospects. Frankly, I don’t care which candidate wins considering their platforms are almost EXACTLY the same. With an Obama presidency, I’m more worried about the followers then the man himself. Never have I seen such a brainwashed bunch. This guy is just another smooth talking slimy empty suit like the rest of them and the way people follow him like sheep gives me the chills.
Yes. I’m scared now.
Like Obi Wan, Bob Barr is our only hope and our prospects of sanity are dim. Blue state/Red state doesn’t matter when either color has us screwed. Wake up people. Don’t follow the light.
And THAT, Mando, is why YOU should vote for Bill the Cat.
(Paid for by the committee to elect Bill the Cat for President)
Actually Pinko, follow the light. There’s just no hope for some sheep.
Mando, maybe if the populace would accept that they have to compromise on issues, pay taxes to fund solutions for national problems (war, transportation, SS & Medicaid/care, military hospitals, social services, etc.), and expect something other than sound bites, we’d get more from our candidates. I’m not a party animal so I don’t understand the “my party right or wrong” mentality. I can certainly see favoring one party’s platform over the other’s though.
What you’re feeling right now is how some of us have felt about the Bush administration. We survived and so will you.
“What you’re feeling right now is how some of us have felt about the Bush administration. We survived and so will you.”
WILD APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!
I also felt sympathy for McCain as I watched the debate. I hope America will forgive him after the election, and his legacy is not damaged more than it ought to be. Watching as McCain became unravelled last night on national television, I kept thinking, sorrowful ly, about that town hall he did just last Friday where he went off script to explain to his supporters that Barack Obama is not a terrorist, a traitor, a dangerous man, an Arab, or a non-citizen. If McCain truly believes, as he explained to that one supporter, that there is “nothing to fear from an Obama Presidency,” then what is the emotional cause of McCain’s visible agitation, anger, and alarm during the debates? What explains the zigzagging and theatrical unpredictability of his policy positions, travel schedule, and campaign tactics?
He looked desperate last night, but not desperate to win. He was desperate not to lose. He doesn’t want to personally bear the embarrassment of losing, but I think he is beginning to realise he will lose, and the responsible and thoughtful man that he was before this campaign is going to slowly return in the next few weeks as reality sets in.
I only hope that he has enough pull with the Republican base, many of whom will want to renounce their citizenship faced with an Obama victory, to make the case to them that they should not take a destructive attitude toward this country and this government as many of them did during Clinton’s Presidency. And, now that it’s come to it, I suppose I should say I hope he has enough pull with the scary crazy people yelling “kill him” to convince them not to feel they ought to try something stupid.
That truly would be a stain on the McCain legacy, because historians would argue that his campaign’s “fact-free slander” planted the seeds.
If nothing like that happens I think McCain can redeem himself with one single concession speech.
SA,
Thanks for implying that my opinion is worth nothing! I won’t make the same remark about your opinions on the matter. Hey, look, I know that I am pro-Obama, and I haven’t made that a secret. I think it is convenient, though, that you ignored my second post, in which I said something specifically positive about McCain. In an earlier thread, I also said it was good that he was trying to now stop the hate speech and correct misinformation by some of the supporters at his rallies. In any case, I don’t recall ever saying or thinking that either of these candidates is perfect. In fact, I did say in my first post that neither of the candidates had the right idea about competition in education.
Posting as Pinko,
I LOVE that you are referencing the Bill the Cat campaign. Bloom County is my all-time favorite comic. Too cool!
ShellyB,
Great post. You are right. I am so mad at some of the stuff John McCain has said or encouraged in his campaign. However, I have to remember that he is MUCH better compared to some of the other, more conservative Republican candidates who could have won the nomination (at least in my opinion). I guess I am still reeling, like Censored talked about, from my disappointment/disbelief during the last two elections. I would love Barack Obama to win, but I am still scared that my renewed hope may have the rug swept out from under it. It is my sincere belief that Obama should win this thing, but I won’t count my chickens…I’ve been burned in the past.
Interesting new information on John McCain’s latest beloved mascot, “Joe the Plumber”, aka Joe Wurzelbacher.
1. He is, it turns out, not a plumber after all. Click here.
2. He is evidently a registered Republican. Click here.
3. He owes back taxes to the State of Ohio and has a lien on his property as a result. Click here.
4. And it turns out is related to Robert Wurzelbacher who is the son-in-law of Charles Keating. Yes. The Charles Keating whom McCain was involved with in the “Keating 5 Scandal”. Click here.
5. He has been interviewed several times over the past twenty-four hours by several networks. Which means he has now had more press conferences than Sarah Palin.
I point these things out not to disparage Joe the Plumber. People run into hard times and have to do what they have to do to make a living and survive. My point, instead, was to highlight McCain’s ineptitude in vetting the private citizens he chooses as his campaign mascots. And by putting Joe the Plumber into the spotlight McCain has not only placed him under intense media scrutiny but, as a result, subjected him to the unfortunate embarassment of having his personal and financial troubles publicized for all the country to balk at.
Shame on you John McCain.
Okay, so I discovered that if you include more than three links in a post you get placed into the “comment is waiting” purgatory.
Which is where my latest post currently resides.
But at least I know why, now.
So, my dear Moon-howler, if you would be so kind as to bump me out of the ether, I’d be most thankful.
🙂
Yes please I would like to see what Robb said.
DG, that’s why I’m so sad about what’s happened to McCain’s sense od decency. I thought he was going to spare us the typical Republican political hit jobs.
Since nobody ever talks about Joe Biden I thought you might like this (can he count?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq-eeWow_WU
McCain is so clearly a very oily character who runs his campaign one way – making arguements around specious and irrelevant issues – so that he the principled elitist can then make decisions as he sees fit later when in office. A total elitist running a totally vapid campaign, expecting us to be in awe of his “personal integrity”. I’ve lost respect for him, and I didn’t have much to start with. The traits I just complained of were well in evidence during the Amnesty 2006 and Amnesty 2007 debates when he tried to ram Amnesty down America’s throat based on false arguements and by falsely defining terms, and we can only guess why because he sure didn’t explain his line of BS in any real way. “Trust me”. Yeah sure Grandpa.
McCain started off well but Obama zinged him with some good and very damning points. The observation that McCain’s ads are 100% negative is spot on. And when he lays out McCain’s health care plan I get chills.
So I think probably Obama consolidated his gains. McCain’s proposal for health care is so obviously the opposite of what America needs, an extreme attempt to take one more thing (employer-provided health care) away from working people for the sake of “competitiveness” with the third world. Even as cynical as I ahve become, when I reflect on McCain’s health care plan I fear for America.
I thought John McCain did very poorly after the first 40 minutes, mainly because he let his composure slip and he failed to talk about what he would do for the country and more about what he though Obama would not do (a big mistake). It did not matter to me anyway as I had already decided to vote for Obama (the lessor of the two evils).
I studied McCain’s bio, here is a summary of what I took from it:
1. McCain is a war veteran, a navy fighter pilot, a man of public honor (occassionally altruistically, and arrogantly so), but sometimes his BIO history leads you to doubt his PRIVATE honor (the rules he breaks when no-one is looking) regarding his private life and professional progress in life (he had histories of adultery, unfaithfulness, drinking, recklessness, contempt for authority, graduating 5th from the bottom of his Naval Acadamy class (not a good sign of character, brilliance or leadership skill).
2. He got where he has been as a result of inner circle relationships, created by his father and grandfather (Navy Senior Leaders), and his exploitation of his POW experience as a congressional liason (while in the navy).
3. He did get elected by running a tough door to door campain as a dark horse holding town meetings where his one true skill (likeable car salesman and fighter pilot wit and party personality) prevailed to convince people to vote for him (you can hid a lot of personal incompetancy when you have a party animal nature.
4. He has a party personality, except when he is offended by personal ethics (part of his military toe-the-line honesty ethics, which served him well when he attacked campain funding fraud (he has a sense of selective ethics), also when he supported the troops and war, and when he convinced the president to send more troops to IRAQ. It did not serve him well when he wanted to bail out one of his “inside” political circle crony buddies during the S&L money fraud and subsequent scandals where he was lucky to get away with “an exercise of poor judgement”, instead of a jail sentence.
5. I really disagree when he wants states to control “abortion”, and he is incapable of realizing abortion is an individual rights issue and not a states rights issue (it is not a constitutionally granted state right to decide abortion), and he wants to overturn Roe v. Wade because it is a religious issue with him (a belief) rather than a right to an individual (under the constitution) to determine the course of their own lives and make their own decisions about personal matters.
In my own personal opinion, like G.W. Bush junior, I don’t think he is smart enough to be President.
I also studied Obama’s bio: to be discussed next.
DG,
It’s only because, as I said, I stopped reading after the intro paragraph. If you said a few positive things about McCain, then that helps. All I know is that McCain hasn’t been connected with the types of people that Obama has been associated with. Obama has had to back away from several associations with radicals to try and show that he doesn’t any longer support them. This is still upsetting. As far as his truthfulness, how does one totally downplay the abilities of someone (JB) during the Democratic debates, and then last night state what a capable president he would make if the need arose. Hard to take seriously or believe someone who says whatever is expedient at the time to gain approval. I think this was Hillary’s down fall. At least McCain didn’t select a running mate that he had previously been publicly criticizing.
Another thing, so someone says I’m going to raise your taxes, and you immediately shout “I’m voting for him!” ? Taxing companies? Face it, the added costs will roll down to either the consumer, or the employees of the company. There’s no free lunch. Those horrible big companies that Obama complains about employ a huge number of ‘working class’ people you know. Without employers we’d all be standing in the 7-11 parking lot looking for odd jobs. On one hand he sees big business as the enemy, and then he turns around and states that we need to step up our technology and medical research to compete in the global market. Who do you think is going to accomplish this, the government, the guys standing in the 7-11 parking lot, the ‘working class’ individuals? Hell no, it’s the big corporations that have the resources and money to accomplish this in a meaningful time frame. Even if an individual made a technical breakthrough it would still take a large company to bring it to the masses. What about all those people he wants to help get a college education? Where are they going to find good jobs if not with the larger companies? Think about it. That’s reality.
Getting a little tired of the ‘Throwing Bush Under the Bus’ speech McCain is giving. I am not a Bush supporter. But isn’t it tacky to be throwing the president of the United States under bus? No loyalty.
Joe the Plumber sounds like a black velvet. Not impressed.
Obama has made some political mistakes, because of his “junior” senator past.
But I gather the following from his bio:
1. He is NOT a muslim as so many people want to de-ride him for, his father (a muslim student of Africa) left him at an early age to go back to Africa (to help RWANDA?). His father was a foreign student, his mother a wierd social philosopher, with a fascination, interest and desire for all things “foreign”. I saw Obama’s re;lationship with his mother a lot like Bill Clinton’s relationship with his mother, it shaped his perception of reality, and made him very, very sympathetic to the “little guy” sometimes to his own detriment or sense of balance. Obama was born in Hawaii, was taken to Asia, grew up in several international environments, was affected by his father’s absence (thus causing him to seek his identity). He was send to live with relatives in Hawaii. He struggled with defining who he was (black, white or other), and focused very early at a young age on school and success in school. His mentors were his teachers.
2. He is a very, very smart man (Harvard law graduate, president of the harvard law review, a very competitive position). He made a decision to help the poor, rather than help the rich (a contrast to John McCain).
3. In aligning himself to help the poor, he choose some very liberal radical friends (a strategic mistake he regrets, but he still maintains those political ties as “necessary and useful fools”.
4. He lost an election in Chicago to the political corruption of a former black panther (and learned that truth in politics and issues will not get you elected in an ethnic centric community), this affected his future campaign strategies.
5. In general he is highly ethical, except when personal convictions on civil rights issues cloud his judgement and affect his bias.
6. In general he is non-ethnic centric in his decisions, but cannot abandon his anger at ethnic bias, and has difficulty bridging the difference in support of his ethnicity, while remaining fair and neutral to all “individuals”. He is a constitutional lawyer, typically fighting on the little guy side, even if the little guy is wrong. (this explains his support for moter-voter registration) and his support for “illegal” immigrants.
7. He supports a national health care plan, that is not like Britain and Canada (who think US people are crazy not to have federal catastrophic free health care), but is closer to it than McCain.
8. He believes in taxing the rich, but not so much that the salaries they make compared to the poor are out of balance and the nation becomes affected by slow economic growth.
Neither McCain, nor Obama, could see the credit crisis as a result of the following in time to make any laws to prevent it from the meltdown we have going on now.
1. The lower 1/3 of the wage scale was offered ARM mortgages they could not pay, with the concept of 8A and a home for all (even if you have no money to pay a mortgage), and falsified the risk of income statements, risk of job stability and risk of default.
2. They both supported new congressional laws (to low income families) and supported lack of derivatives and laws that controlled derivatives through market oversight, so they themselves could get richer in the derivative market, own equity investments that were growing rapidly in a real estate “bubble” and believing in a “healthy economy” in the international banking “bubble” when it was not.
3. They like everyone else is lying about how bad the economy really is, knowing that if they do not, it will get even worse (the truth will hurt). This is why neither of them addressed the future of the nation, the trade deficit, and the impact on the huge Trillion dollar deficit on the next 4-5 years of their presidency.
Neither of them is smnart enough to know what to do about it other than protect their own assets (and not tell anyone how they are doing it).
I.e. Convert to Cash, dump bad debt, dump bad investments, buy Swiss francs and Japanese yen and invest in real commodities (oil, grain, wheat, sugar, salt, etc). They do not acknowledge the severity of the recession/depression and will not tell you that things are going to become very expensive in 3 years, that many banks will fail (only a few will be saved) in 1 year, the government needs twice as much bailout money than it is telling you, the bond market will collapse, businesses in the entertainment and consumer industries will fail, people will be laid off (10-20% unemployment) in 3 years, the banks interbank lending rates will not change anytime soon (the feds and reserve are broke, so banks will trust only the overnight federal funds rates and will not allow a federal balance sheet check for collateral to back the loan up and very reluctantly loan to each other lacking trust and collateral to prove they are solvent).
They want you to believe they can save you, the economy AND spend on their special interest group (illegal aliens financial support, ethnic centric schools, poverty group education, rather than competitive education (although they do want charter schools and McCain wants religious voucher programs) and low income family support programs) with a trillion dollar deficit and 9 trillion dollar trade imbalance with billions in loans held by china for US oil import costs.
Neither will tell you to go straight to solar power (the best thing you could do for yourself), but not for then oil companies and big business PACs that supported them in the elections.
Neither of them will stop illegal aliens and non-US citizen voter fraud (although McCain tried and was crucified by monday night quarterbacks for doing so (too late John, too late…)
Neither of them will stop street gangs in your neighborhoods.
I’m voting for Obama as the lessor of two evils (nothing more). The real power to FIX, us is in the ethics of Congress and the Senate whenever they see how their LACK of ethics has destroyed our nation.
Every single one of our problems (including illegal immigration and the collapse of the credit industry that will take us to a depression), can be traced back to one simple truth in this issue,
A LACK of ETHICS and a significant (but MINORITY) number of people LYING, CHEATING and STEALING from the MAJORITY of the CITIZENS in this country.
.
I find it fascinating that the subject of immigration did not come up once in the debates, at least not that I saw. Is it not that important?
Firedancer,
It apparently was a taboo subject or else it simply wasn’t important enough to make it to the table as a question. Abortion on the other hand, always pops up. Go figure.
It will be interesting to see if Senator McCain has been informed of the difficulties in PWC. Perhaps he will mention something about the thousands of citizens who were blown off as part of the democratic process, right there where he is going to be speaking on Saturday.
Immigration didn’t come up once tonight either during the Feder/Wolf debate. Yes, it’s a problem, but it’s not the ogre this county likes to make it out to be.
Michael,
Did you watch the PBS Frontline special on Obama and McCain the other night?
Robb,
Wow, thanks for all those facts. You know, I have to admit, my first thought was that “joe the plumber” was plant. It was all just tooo convenient. Thanks for the links!