Most self respecting kids will probably be joining the parents who are demonstrating against the PWC Schools math program. Aren’t kids supposed to hate math?
I just interviewed a 7 year old who is visiting. He told me he loved math and he got to use manipulatives and pencil and paper. He also knew that 8 + 9 = 17. Last night I interviewed a long- time PWC English teacher who sat through several in-service presentations of Math Investigations. She told me that for the first time, math made sense to her.
So what’s all the fuss about? Math Investigations. Apparently a few parents are upset that kids aren’t taught math they way they were taught back in the day. Student needs change. Technology changes. The skills that kids need to be successful in the 21st century are not the same skills kids needed who attended school back in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. To quote Bob Dylan, ‘The Times They are A’Changin’.
Anyone who wants to learn more about the elementary math program in PWCS should talk to their child’s teacher or go to the PWCS Mathematics Web site where they can see program evaluation reports and many other valuable resources for parents. Parents can also access all materials for teachers and administrators, such as planning calendars and pacing guides at the site. Any parent wanting to see the materials may contact their child’s school or visit the PWCS Staff Library.
–Apparently a few parents are upset that kids aren’t taught math they way they were taught back in the day.–
Well, I think it’s more than just a FEW parents, first off. And it’s frustrating when a kid comes home with a worksheet and you have no idea how to help him/her because the directions are either vague or just weird. MI is a totally new concept for most of us (my kids have learned that way) and it has been a pretty big stumper. The schools offer workshops to help parents understand it, and that’s great. I also think manipulatives are great. But, alas, many parents don’t “get it” even after they attend the workshops.
Also note MI has been booted out of several other school systems, and parents often use this as an argument for canning the program.
Understanding the concepts is the key, not memorization.
Change is difficult. Did you go to the workshops?
Why don’t you try the argument that mathematics scores in PWC schools were not a problem UNTIL THIS PROGRAM STARTED GETTING IMPLEMENTED IN PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY!!!
My kids graduated from Prince William County (my daughter was in PWC schools 1st through 12; stepson 4th through 12), and they did VERY well…my daughter, in particular. She was doing simple algebra by the 1st grade and ALWAYS tested very high, in all subjects actually. She received the HIGH SCHOOL mathematics award in the 8th grade and was being recruited by colleges before her 9th grade year. The school system in general was award winning, Brentsville District HS particularly, when they were in school. Our County schools were considered the best in the state prior to the hiring of this current Superintendent (who came to our county from NY with his entourage in tow, all of whom get considerably more money than their successful predecessors, and continually demand more), even superior to Fairfax County Schools which spent considerably more money per student.
I’ve often seen it said around the blogs, including here, that our schools are one reason that people are discouraged about moving to Prince William County. If that’s true, it’s a rather new development, like this this ridiculous math program instituted by an equally ridiculous Superintendent of Schools.
By the way Pinko and Princess, those sound like some of the same kind of arguments and excuses offered for “new math” when that was instituted when I was a kid. Fortunately, that didn’t last long. I wonder if they’ll wise up soon enough this time too? Probably not until this current Superintendent gets shown the door, I imagine. Too bad for the kids.
I am not convinced that this math investigations is the right way to teach kids math. Let me say that both my parents were math majors and I’ve had every math class of an electrical engineer. Yet when my 4th grader brought home her math multiplication homework last year, it took me a good 15 minutes to figure out what she was doing. She had a simple multiplication problem using double digits, she proceeded to draw a large square with smaller internal squares that had lines running diagonally through the smaller squares. It was quite an interesting ordeal but it concerns me because it was so unconventional.
Luckily, my oldest child has been taught using other methods but it would absolutely be worrisome if this were the ONLY way that was being used. And I do believe it is the intention to integrate this system so that the younger kids are only taught using this system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI
Go to 5minutes, they show the method that I tried to describe above. It’s called the lattice method.
If you want to see some comments by parents and grandparents of current PWC students being subjected to this, go to the following link (a petition being offered in opposition of this program…check out the comments with some of the signatures):
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?123math
The Lattice method of multiplication appears in the first printed arithmetic book, circa 1478. Multi-step multiplication was done that way for years. As book printing changed, so did methods of performing algorithms. Symbols also changed, The percent symbol (%) is a variation of 1/100th.
Back to Lattice Multiplication–kids with learning disabilities often succeed with this method rather than the one used by most people simply because it lines up the products in cells. We limit ourselves when we only have one and only one way of performing mathematics.
I don’t think that Pink or Princess were arguing anything. They were commenting; both seemed to have opposite opinions.
People either love it or hate it. I am not sure the voting lines are a place to make curriculum decisions. Teams of people generally make those types of decisions, rightly or wrongly.
I posted the article for discussion only after a friend emailed me the alert. Here is the thread author’s only opinion:
Anyone who wants to learn more about the elementary math program in PWCS should talk to their child’s teacher or go to the PWCS Mathematics Web site where they can see program evaluation reports and many other valuable resources for parents. Parents can also access all materials for teachers and administrators, such as planning calendars and pacing guides at the site. Any parent wanting to see the materials may contact their child’s school or visit the PWCS Staff Library.
You’re right Moon-howler (I just reread the comments), and I apologize to all. It’s a touchy subject to me, given my long history in the county and how involved I was with the schools while my kids were in them. It just infuriates me how this fellow Walts has brought down the quality of the system since he has arrived, enriching himself and his buddies…and how the School Board keeps trying to justify their very BAD judgement in hiring him in the first place. Pisses me off. My anger clouded my reading of the comments…sorry.
By the way…I guess you know my opinion now.
That’s OK AWC, there’s a lot of clouded opinions on this site ; )
I am not sure how I feel about Math Investigations either…
The thing is, official county word on the matter is that Math Investigations is not intended as the only way teachers are supposed to teach math to students. It is supposed to be a core program that is supplemented with other methods. The intention is get kids to understand concepts, and why a formula works, instead of ONLY rote memorization of facts.
In tutoring, I have found it interesting that some younger students exposed to Inestigations start to show more insight about how to arrive at the answer to a problem. They are now able to tell WHY the problem is answered that way…which is key to Math Investigations, and to higher level math. High school math teachers will definitely take off points if you cannot prove how you arrived at your answer.
Presentations to PWC this year at a beginning of the year county-wide workshop included 3 nationally-known speakers who had nothing to do with Investigations. Though they didn’t speak on this topic and had NO connection to the program, I found it interesting that they all spoke on how the future of American education needed to be about teaching children higher order thinking skills (how to be great thinkers), instead of just great memorizers or calculators.
However, I am concerned that it may be taking students longer to be able to memorize operational facts. I think everyone needs to seriously invest in some flashcards given the current direction of the county.
I don’t know…is this also a matter of the lag time of testing catching up with instruction? Who is to say is the current SOLs are the best measure of how a student SHOULD learn mathematics. If you ask teachers, I am sure that while lots are upset with Investigations, just as many are upset with the content and pacing of current math SOLs.
While I love PWC schools, I am not sure that I agree that they have had the best reputation in the area in the past. Also, I know for a fact that math scores HAVE been a problem in the past, too. I do not share the view that Math Investigations is responsible for PWC schools spiralling into the depths of hell.
I think it is admirable that change is attempted here for the betterment of student understanding, but time will tell and PWCS leaders will need to listen to the resistant voices. They have excellent points, and they must be addressed. If leadership wants teachers to supplement the program, then they must demonstrate how that will be done, and provide the time in the day for it. They must also be prepared for the dip they may see in results as teachers, students, and parents get used to the program. It is inevitable. In this day of high stakes, leadership has to decide if all this is really worth it, and if there might be another way to teach those higher order thinking skills when it comes to math.
Actually, I was just presenting an explanation of the curriculm and the reason they use it. And I presented the parents’ point of view.
Personally, I find it confusing but I took a similar teachers’ course through adult ed and STILL didn’t get it. The problem is, I’m not a good judge because I’ve always had a hard time with math and both my kids have learning issues.
“While I love PWC schools, I am not sure that I agree that they have had the best reputation in the area in the past.”
It’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of fact. All you have to do is go back in the records (of course you’re not going to find them on the school website…it would make the current crop of administrators look bad) and see the long list of academic achievements in this county…national and state achievements. The fact is that Prince William County was the first school system in the state to achieve FULL accreditation, even before it became mandatory. Brentsville District High School achieved international status as one of only six Cambridge Program testing centers in the country (an EARNED achievement). The list is endless over at least a 6 year period, of which I am aware, of achievements by both individual schools and the school system as a whole.
Let me add to MH’s comment. Most schools are offering workshops for parents who want to learn more. I suggest all parents (who haven’t had the same opportunity I had through Adult Ed) attend and then decide.
Most math test difficulties were at the middle school level having nothing to do with Math Investigations. Trouble began state-wide when 6, 7th grades had their own SOL test. The traditional 8th grade SOL math test remains on target. There is a difference of opinion as to the cause of the 6th, 7th grade testing difficulty. Many feel the test is poorly contructed. Others believe there is a flaw in state curriculum design. This is a state issue and not one unique to PWC or City of Manassas.
First, let’s clarify a dew things.
One, Walts did not bring MI to Prince WIlliam County. MI was actually adopted just after Walts started which means that the program was in the works before he got here.
Two, contrary to some of the statements made here, Prince William County’s math scores weren’t OK before MI was instituted. Math scores were down, not just in the County but across the state and country.
Three, memorization of operational facts is a great parlor trick, but it isn’t really math. Conceptual understanding of what’s actually involved in the computation is essential for later success in algebra.
Four, contrary to statements made here and elsewhere, MI does not completely eschew traditional algorithms and problem-solving methods. While it does not expressly teach all of the traditional strategies at the same time they used to be taught, they are covered and they are “allowed.”
Five, you see a lot of people complaining because MI actually allows, no, encourages, the use of a calculator. *GASP–SHOCK–HORROW* While the calculator should not be a complete substitute for the ability to do complex calculations, I say, what is the great harm in teaching our children to use a tool they will have at their disposal for the rest of their lives? I ask you, how many make your own quill pens or send telegrams versus e-mails? The pace of progress should free our children to use the tools available to them.
Speed is not the only method by which mathematical fluency should be judged. Yes, some of the MI strategies for solving problems do take longer, but they are the building blocks for a greater conceptual understanding of mathematical principles that rote memorization. I can teach my children to say a few phrases in French or Russian, but that doesn’t make them fluent in the language. In English, Science, Foreign Language, Social Studies…, we expect and demand that students understand what they are learning. We don’t just want them to parrot back the facts they’ve memorized without context. Why do we not demand the same from mathematics?
How many people do you know that say “Oh, I really hated math in school” or “I was never really good at math” or “Oh, don’t put me in charge of numbers…math isn’t my strong suit”? Why is that? In many cases it’s because these people never really got it. They learned the procedures. They learned the processes. But they never really *understood* what all that manipulation was getting them. I wonder, sometimes, whether our current financial crisis could have been avoided if just a few more people understood what compound interest really does.
MI is not a perfect program, and I think the PWCS Math Department understands that. But let’s not delude ourselves into thinking the old way was perfect either. Too many children fell through the cracks. Those who succeeded under the old regimen of math instruction were often those who had an aptitude for numbers and would have had success under any sort of math program. You will note that many of the most outspoken critics of the PWCS implementation of MI are people who come from math, science, and engineering backgrounds. These are people whose brains are just “wired” better for numeracy and mathematical fluency. These types will succeed under MI. But, where we used to lose those without that innate ability to conceptualize numbers and mathematical theory, MI builds a framework where their is the potential for much broader and deeper understanding across the board.
Too much math instruction was designed for those who were wired correctly. The other 90% of the students sat and nodded their heads, not understanding fully and not taking advanced math courses. They just got through what they had to. TPWB is correct.
Deeper understanding creates an environment which encourages students to pursue more advanced math courses rather than stopping when one has completed that which is required.
Calculator use is part of living in the 21st century. The same thing used to be said about using pencil and erasers.
“Two, contrary to some of the statements made here, Prince William County’s math scores weren’t OK before MI was instituted. Math scores were down, not just in the County but across the state and country.”
Blue, when you speak of how a particular school system is doing, your gauge is relative to the state and national statistics and I know for a fact that Prince William County was doing just fine prior to the gentleman from New York (who left there while he was under investigation for some his and his colleagues’ practices during his employment, if I remember correctly) arriving to take the helm here.
I must ask, Blue, but did you by any chance go through Prince William County schools? Did your children already graduate from schools here? I’m not trying to be a smart ass…I’m seriously curious about the basis of your perspective on this.
“Apparently a few parents are upset that kids aren’t taught math they way they were taught back in the day.”
I wouldn’t mind if my children didn’t learn math the WAY I did, but I do mind that they don’t learn math! I’m all for changing teaching math, but it’s got to be a way that is more successful, not less. Why should PWC be a bunch of lemmings walking off the same cliff that hundreds of school systems across the country have? They didn’t get rid of a program because it was great, they got rid of it because it didn’t work! Look closely at what is deemed it’s evidence of success (publisher’s booklet linked from PWCS math site). In some cases, you see one data point for one year in one grade (such as Greece, NY schools). Why do they only show one year for one grade, even though the program had been in place for 5 years across 6 grades??? When you look at the big picture, that school system’s math scores has gone from being in the top 3rd of their county (~17 districts) when the program began, to among the bottom 3 (often dead last) the last 3 years across all grades!
For the past 17 years, the NSF has funded EXCLUSIVELY to the tune of billions of dollars (see testimony given to National Math Panel, it was either meeting 3 or 4 when textbook publishers and the NSF were brought in to address the panel) these types of fuzzy math programs. The result is a vast number of papers, “research” studies (all of which have been disregarded as not scientifically sound by the What Works Clearinghouse and the NMP), and training programs in both educational colleges and in-teacher training touting the fuzzy math approach. If the only side of the argument you hear is one side, people begin to believe it.
But like any propaganda, eventually the truth comes out. When children are not taught least-common-denominators, standard algorithms, standard terminology, etc. and not given sufficient practice they fall behind their peers that do. The gap is astounding. To see for yourself, go to the Singapore Math website and take a math test and do a similar one from the VA DOE website. You’ll find that the questions are much harder and often require multiple steps on the SIngapore site. Those answers are also written (not multiple choice) and you need to get an 80% to pass. Meanwhile, VA SOL tests have a variable passing rate (as low as 54% on the Algebra test) on a multiple-choice test. It’s not hard to see why the US is so far behind in international math competitions. Yet, many parents are happy as long as their children are passing the SOLs. Parents, that is false security as both Vern Williams (and Carol Knight agreed) in the work session to the PWC school board on 9/17/08.
One poster noted that he/she wanted his/her children to learn concepts, not just rote memorization. That is a straw man argument that has been pushed by the fuzzy math propaganda machine for years. NO ONE believes math should just be rote memorization. We parents who oppose MI want conceptual understanding and fluent knowledge of math facts and realize that the two must be developed simultaneously. The NCTM and NMP agree on this point too. Yet the TERC authors believe that since calculators are now less than $5, that conceptual understanding is what is important and greatly deemphasize (or eliminate completely) the learning of math facts and procedures.
Now, for those parents who still want their children to learn math via MI, I say go ahead. But let those of us who know that it falls far short of what they need to learn (it and it’s follow on Connected Math, which is now being pushed as the math program for PWC middle schools, fail to meet the VA SOLs in 3 of 4 grade levels from grades 5-8 … and those SOLs are being revised and stregthened right now for adoption in the coming year … see the VA DOE website for info) choose a real math option that will provide our children the math foundation they need to succeed in higher level math. Children that don’t get that foundation by 6th grade are vitually assured of not being able to get into one of the STEM fields. That is why elementary school math and the foundation it provides is so critical.
AWC:
I went to elementary school in New York, middle school in New Jersey, and graduated near the top of my class from a Fairfax County High School. I went to a private Virginia college for my undergrad, GMU for graduate school, and have been a resident of Prince William County since 1998. I have a son and daughter currently in Prince William County Schools and served as the Chair of the Superintendent’s Advisory Council on Instruction from 2006 to 2008 (this is a position elected by the Council, not appointed by the Superintendent–I have no fealty to Walts or anyone on the administration). Because my children are still in the system (and will be for another decade), I have taken a great interest in what the schools are doing. I am not basing my comments on past experience, but rather on present reality. Further, since I’ve pretty much “outed” myself from under this pseudonym by the details I’ve provided, I’ll add that I come from a family of educators. My mother taught high school English. My wife was a high school math teacher in Fairfax County before deciding to stay home with our children. My mother-in-law was a high school math teacher in Fairfax County, an area math specialist, and associate principal. While I am not a public school teacher, I am involved in education by training and trade (my wife and I met in grad school at GMU’s Graduate School of Education).
Prince William County Schools were doing an adequate job. The test scores were better than the national and state average, but only barely. The scores, however, are showing a downward trend (that actually started well before Walts arrived). The problem with math education is endemic to the nation, not just PWC. We were doing just OK. Shouldn’t we be striving for great? The statistics I refer to are the number of students pursuing a career involving mathematics after graduation as well as results from standardized testing and the number of students taking higher level math classes in high school We weren’t preparing them. The National Mathematics Advisory Panel came to a similar conclusion about the state of math education across the country. PWC is just part of that picture. I don’t doubt that PWCS graduated many outstanding students who have gone on to do great things, but in the past decade, as the system has grown to the second largest division in the state, we haven’t kept up that record of excellence while dealing with the stress that resulted from changes in school population, budget cuts, and a distinct change in the demographics of the system. I would much rather see the system be proactive in developing a new, deeper approach to math education that pushes for fluency *before* the test scores really tank. Again, the problem was not that we weren’t preparing our best and brightest, but that we were creating a chasm between those with the intellectual gift for mathematics and those not destined to be the next generation’s math whizzes.
And again, MI was not brought in by Walts. The Math Department had already been through the selection process when Walts arrived. My understanding is that the head of the math department actually met Walts for the first time the day before the School Board was scheduled to vote on whether or not to implement MI. Walts’ problems in Greece, NY, are irrelevant to this discussion and only serve as a smoke screen to the larger issue at hand–how best to teach our children (all of them) math.
Blue, I’ve always respected your opinion and knowing that you are not a long-time Prince William County resident doesn’t change that one bit. All it tells me is that you do not have a historical perspective on our County and its schools.
Prince William has ALWAYS been a very conservative county, particularly when it came to money. Once upon a time (when I was in school and shortly thereafter, as a matter of fact) the schools portion of the county budget only represented somewhere around 17-19% of the total, the area was largely rural (at least until Dale City and Manassas Park was built), and the majority of the citizenry was Democrat and members of the Farm Bureau (particularly on the western end of the county). A relatively small portion of that money went into the administration of the schools…it went into the students.
That all changed in 1971 when the School Board hired a supposedly innovative Superintendent by the name of Dr. Milton Schnyder. He VASTLY expanded the administrative staff of the School Board (including purchasing a fleet of vehicles for this huge staff, along with hiring drivers for all of them); he immediately started the process of building the administrative offices to house all these new hires; and he introduced an entirely new educational concept into our educational system…the “open concept” schools (4 massively expensive high schools built simultaneously: Osbourn Park, Stonewall, Garfield, Woodbridge, one of which was NEVER fully occupied…Osbourn Park). The first year of his tenure saw the School Board budget go from 19% to 78% of the total County budget. Needless to say, the County budget went UP. His second year he “reorganized,” through reclassification of budget items, the School Board budget…and “reclassified” $7 Million out of existence. It wasn’t stolen…it just disappeared. Strangely enough, it suddenly (sarcasm alert) reappeared in the early 90’s…and when it did, nobody in the County government knew what that strange account was. [NOTE: I am familiar with these facts because my father was the Chairman of the PWC Federation of Civic Association’s Budget Committee that was tasked with tearing that original “reclassification” budget apart…and he was the one who discovered the money missing].
The reason that I relate this to you is because Walts does SO remind me of Milton Schnyder.
By the way, you should note that when that money “reappeared” it was still only $7M…there was no interest attached to it.
Sorry, there’s a correction here…it was, afterall, a long time ago. The “reclassification” budget occurred in 1973 and all four of the schools were not BEGUN simultaneously…it two at a time, simultaneously, although they were not were not all completed at the same time. Osbourn Park had to be rebuilt, before it opened, three times because it was built on a major fault and the gym kept cracking.
I have been told that Dr. Walts has gotten rid of a lot of Dr. Kelly’s dead wood. Just checking the administrative lists at various schools bears out that statement.
There is probably some good and some bad. Dr. Walts isn’t handing out his home phone number to special parents either.
Why is he getting rid of SCHOOL administrators, Princess…and not central office administrative “dead wood?”
AWC:
Please take no offense at what I am about to type. I mean no disrespect by it, but I think it could come across that way.
Don’t you think PWC has changed just a little since 1973? We are no longer a sleeping rural county just outside the influence of Washington, DC. We aren’t even an exurb any more. We’re a true-blue suburb–by and large (and for better or worse) a bedroom community for DC, Tysons, and closer in business districts. The school system is now the second largest in the state (and one of the larger districts in the nation). We cannot continue to live in the past and do things the way they were done when the place my house sits was someone’s farm and Rt. 29 was a back country road.
I understand the concerns about budgets, etc., but find those arguments irrelevant when it comes to determining how best to educate. Yes, the education system must be efficient and cost-conscious, but we also should not be determining our children’s educational future based purely on a funding formula. While the county may have overbuilt schools in the early ’70s, we’ve underbuilt in the last decade. Brentsville High School is bursting at the seams and relief won’t come for at least another couple of years. I applaud the work the principal and staff at Brentsville have done to keep it an exemplary school despite the overcrowding, but we shouldn’t have to ask our teachers to work miracles on a shoestring.
But thank you for your insight. It is always fascinating to me that someone who has been in the county for more than a decade is considered a “newcomer.” You’re right that I don’t have the same perspective and sense of history, but I’m not always sure that’s a bad thing.
TPWB,
I’m glad to see you are back and with your well thought posts as always. You’ve been here a decade now, right? You know we’ve had several discussions of “newcomers”. You’ve now crossed my threshold for “newcomers”(a decade or less). Congrats! 😉
AWC,
Thanks for the history lesson for those weren’t around or remember the OP disaster. My parents were so glad to be living in WestGate and the kids here knew where they’d being going to school, unlike others in the OP area. Let’s not forget also, OP took Osbourn’s awards.
Much dead wood from central office is gone also. I am assuming he got rid of the administrators because they were not competent.
Corr: awards should be TROPHIES.
Steven Santee,
Reading yoru post, I am assuming you are either going to be out at McCoart Building or supporting those out there protesting the math program? I got the feeling that your words were from an opposition group rather than just your observations as a parent. Am I incorrect?
How do your children feel about the program?
AWCheney,
I have always respected Blue’s opinion also. It looks like he might be getting his wish tomorrow. re: his name.
Princess Billy-Bob:
Yes, I hope to be at the McCoart building. I am a parent who has been opposed to the program when it was first described to me at a PTO meeting 2 years ago. While the use of manipulatives is fine (I certainly used them 30 years ago … I’m sure they weren’t called that … as does every early math education program I’ve seen, including Saxon which is often considered the polar opposite of MI), the difference is that MI stays in that realm too long. As one principal told me, her opposition to MI is exactly that. It doesn’t effectively move students from the concrete representation that manipulatives provides to the abstract representation that children need to learn.
My wife and I have taught my daughter math at home. Thus she finds math in school to be easy. One example is a recent homework assignment that included word problems. The question boiled down to 2-digit addition, which she quickly wrote as 13+11 = 24. But the instructions on the homework led her to spend another several minutes drawing circles to show why 13+11=24. Many students are capable of learning this, but what the program dwells on during class time is the concrete (an extremely inefficient way to learn). If parents aren’t showing standard algorithms at home, children don’t learn them. I have spoken to my daughter’s teacher (an MI supporter) and she agrees that my daughter understands the standard algorithm fine. However, she doesn’t plan to directly teach it to other students (although she would to some 1-on-1 that she thought were ready), despite the NMP showing that direct instruction in the standard algorithm is shown to be effective among (I can’t recall the exact wording) at-risk students.
I have been in the classroom to see MI in action. I haven’t been impressed and on one occasion it was downright awful. In fact, that visit was with Mrs. Gauch and the math specialist at Neabsco in 2/07. Even they had to admit that the lesson was an enormous failure that day (when we met in the principal’s office following the classroom visit). In other cases, I’ve seen students broken into groups of 2 and left to “discover” some math fact on their own. While those with the teacher make some progress, others in the room were playing around, throwing magnets, i.e. not doing the lesson as you might expect young kids to do. Anyone with 5-7 year-olds can tell you that their attention won’t stay focused for more than a couple of minutes … while the lesson itself leaves them in groups for most of an hour.
As to your note about dead wood … you were left to assume that those administrators were let go due to incompetence. I certainly don’t know, but I am concerned given the unwillingness of teachers and staff who are anti-MI to speak in public for concern of their jobs, that cleaning house is another way to consolidate power. The end effect of course is to stifle any contrary opinions, which is extremely damaging as you’re left with an administration full of “yes”-men.
I’m not familiar with how math is being taught in the PWC school system, but I firmly believe that there has to be a better or alternative system available other than mere learning by memorization or rote. I have three female siblings who took only the minimum math courses in high school and college. They hated math. Luckily, I found math courses to be easy and found myself the only female in my calculus course in high school. That is not good. It’s an indictment of how math was taught that sixteen guys and one girl would end up on that class. ( I think the ability to visualize spaces can make a big difference in comprehending math.) If an alternative to the former “learn by rote” is available, all the better – if it encourages students who became turned off by or become scared of math.
I should check my tenses and spelling. English was my downfall – and Home Ec.
Thank goodness for Math Investigations! PWC elementary schools 3rd grade scores have soared since MI was implemented…oh wait a minute, that isn’t true, scores of advanced passed have actually significantly decreased, especially in my children’s school. I guess next year we’ll see the big increase in scores like the districts listed in the Math Investigations brochure…oh wait, some of the those success story scores have now thrown out Math Investigations completely. Well maybe we’ll have the highest scores of our region like Dr. Walt’s previous school district in which he implemented MI…oh, wait, his former district has actually dropped to the very bottom of their region in math scores. Sarcasm alert!
Math Investigations has had years to make a difference in other jurisdictions and years to prove itself as a worthy curriculum…and yet it is getting dropped in many locations and when people bring that up it is blamed on: (1) the first edition which has since been changed (2)the “teachers” for not adhering to the curriculum or (3) the “parents” for causing confusion because they don’t understand it. If it truly was the best thing since sliced bread, why wouldn’t it proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by now? Why aren’t Greece School District’s scores the highest in New York? Why did California drop the program? Why is the curriculum prohibited in certain states? If MI works, then we should see evidence of that everywhere that has it and we most definitely are not.
That being said, there are aspects of MI which are terrific. This type of curriculum is suitable for the K-1 grades as a supplement, after that we need regular math perhaps supplemented with conceptual understanding programs such as MI, but not MI supplemented with regular math. The fact that in Math Investigations there is only one short page of long division for a child’s entire elementary school career (and that is the God’s honest truth, one page of long division, period end of story)! And it isn’t even a page of instruction, instead it is a page that says this is the old way to do it but our way is much better. Afterall who needs long division as long as you have a calculator, so says MI.
In fact teachers have to cram cram cram in long division and multiplication facts, which are NOT covered in MI so that kids can pass the SOL test each year.
I think conceptual understanding is great, but I also want my children to know 6 x 8 =48 at the drop of a hat. Call it a parlor trick but it works just fine for me when I’m at my job trying to figure out something quick. I certainly don’t want them to have to draw and color an entire page of squirrels and then count them up to figure out 48 is the answer.
The school board’s feet should be held to the fire on this one. If scores don’t improve again next year, I say FIX IT and FIX IT NOW!
I’m not sure who posted earlier that SOL scores in PWC were dropping prior to Investigations selection as the text series, but that person is misinformed. SOL test scores in the county were increasing in all elementary grades prior to Investigations selection and have continued to increase in grades not affected by the Investigations program. The county has given a number of different statements regarding the need for such radical change in the elementary mathematics curriculum, from declining grade 3 SOLs, which was shown to be incorrect, to declining middle schools SOLs, also shown to be false, to finally lower than expected SAT scores, which is actually true. In my opinion the real reason the county chose Investigations probably has less to do with unacceptable test scores and more to do with philosophical belief and support for the manner in which Investigations advocates teaching mathematics.
Another earlier poster also commented that memorization of math facts amounts to little more than a parlor trick. I disagree, and so do the mathematics professors at MIR, Cal Tech, and Johns Hopkins and the esteemed representatives of the National Mathematics Advisory Panel. Memorization of math facts and learning standard processes to the point of aromaticity frees the mind to enable study of more advanced techniques.
Think about it like writing and spelling. If you’re trying to learn how to spell cat and rat and dog and you don’t know how to make the letters r or g, your focus and attention will be on forming those letters properly instead of spelling the words. That same scenario exists with math. If you don’t know how to divide 10 by 3 then how can you study fraction to decimal conversion and learn to identify the difference between a decimal which repeats or terminates? If you don’t know what the common factors are for two numbers then how can you combine similar and dissimilar fractions?
Drill and kill is a much maligned concept which might be better stated as practice makes perfect. How can you learn the processes necessary to add and subtract, multiply and divide and understand what you’re doing and why if you only get a few opportunities to perform those operations? Investigations is heavy on games and group learning and the opportunities for students to individually practice concepts is limited. Homework is generally one or two questions at most and tests, or assessments in Investigations speak, are typically no more than 3 problems. Imagine taking a test where you only have 1 opportunity to screw up or get it right. Is the grade you get on that one question indicative of your knowledge and mastery of the topic?
Contrary to the opinion of this site’s chief blogger, the parents who are opposed to Investigations are well informed about the topic. We’ve met with our teachers, studied the materials, read the research, and observed our children’s academic progress and we’re still opposed to the program. My son comes home every day saying how stupid, dumb, and boring math is. I finally handed him the thesaurus and told him to look up different words for stupid, dumb, and boring because I was sick and tired of hearing them. Do we really want our children to think school is boring? Do we really want our children to believe that they are experts on a topic after doing 1 or 2 questions, or would we rather they understand the value of hard work and practice?
No one would claim that memorization trumps conceptual understanding but Investigations seems to eschew practice and repetition in favor of discussion and doodling. The theory behind Investigations – that students need to understand the why is great but not at the cost of sacrificing the how. I believe that Investigations will fail to provide my children with an adequate foundation in mathematical processes to advance to higher mathematics.
The most amazing thing to me is that those of us opposed to Investigations don’t want the county to just drop the program – we’d just like a choice in how our kids are taught and with what materials. The county did a survey at the end of the school year attempting to gauge parent and teacher support for Investigations. Almost 47% of parents and 60% of teachers felt Investigations failed to provide their children / students with a adequate foundation in mathematics. Dual instructional tracks wouldn’t cost a thing – in fact they’d save money in the first year and each consecutive year thereafter because the of reduced need to purchase consumable workbooks. With about half that parents and more than half the teachers less than enthusiastic about Investigations and no cost to implementing dual tracks why wouldn’t the county allow dual tracks?
The dead wood comments were to awcheney having nothing to do with the math program.
Steven, your remearks about the program are more meaningful coming from the parent vantage point that your just wrote than were your ‘talking points.’ I believe that what you are describing is that Prince William County phenomena, ‘food for thought often becomes a full course meal.’ I have always been a great believer in balance. Most definitely the students need to be able to transition from conceptual understanding to more abstract written activities as well as practical application.
Don’t you think calling people who lost their jobs “dead wood” is kind of insensitive?
I actually like the way these fuzzy math methods look at numbers in different ways, or go about solving a problem in different ways. It all seems to me to be practice with thinking about and using numbers. For me, I’ll stand behind standard algorithms as the must-know, but once those are mastered, I like looking at the same problem in different ways, after the most effective and efficient way is mastered.
Pink, I don’t know the people involved but usually people are not called ‘dead wood’ because they lose their jobs. It is more the reverse. They lose their jobs because they are dead wood and offer nothing productive to the organization where they are employeed. They collect a pay check.
My capitalist soul tells me this is not insensitive. (unless saying it to their face)
“Don’t you think PWC has changed just a little since 1973? We are no longer a sleeping rural county just outside the influence of Washington, DC. We aren’t even an exurb any more.”
Of course I know that PWC has changed Blue…I’ve been around to see it, unlike most people here. I was not offering an opinion with that comment to which you refer…I was offering a history lesson, and lesson it should be. You weren’t here either when the Open Concept Schools were proven to be an expensive, absolute failure that had to be fixed; nor were you here when Schnyder’s contract expired and they finally sent him packing, with a deep sigh of relief, and sending as many of his staff with him that they could. You weren’t here when they finally sold off that huge huge fleet of black sedans and fired, or reassigned, all those drivers…and you weren’t here when they had to try and fix the huge, expensive mess he left behind. My point was…Walts is this generation’s Schnyder.
I meant to address the issue of Dr. Walts. While it is true that the new textbook search began (Apr/May of 05) before he was hired (June of 05, I believe), it certainly didn’t end until well after he was in office. The original recommendation to the board was made in Dec of 05 and it wasn’t approved until Jan 06. Given his first hand knowledge of how poorly it did in Greece NY (and it was even in place in Baltimore County before he left I believe), it is utterly indefensible that he would allow it to be chosen as the primary textbook here.
Steven:
How would you propose to pay for this dual-track program at a time when we are struggling to pay for just a baseline program of instruction? How would you propose to handle the logistics of splitting classes based on parents’ choices?
Dual instruction tracks wouldn’t cost anything? Are you kidding me? Let’s do a simple math problem Let’s say a school has 100 children in 4th grade. To make things simple, let’s say there are four classes. This year, 42 parents opt for “traditional” math. So, do you create two classes of 21 for non-MI and two classes of 29 for MI? Let’s throw some other things in. There are 14 SIGNET students in the 4th grade. The county tries to group at SIGNET students together. What happens is some of those SIGNET students are in the “traditional” program while the rest are MI? What about ESOL? What about special needs? What happens next year when the split is 70-30? Dual-tracking sounds great on paper but logistically would prove untenable and unsustainable. Let’s not mention the precedent this also sets.
How about dual tracking for science education (you know, one that teaches “intelligent design” and one that teachers evolution)? Or dual tracking in Social Studies (one that refers to it as the Civil War the other that studies the War of Northern Aggression)? Or maybe dual tracking for English in case there are books in the cannon considered objectionable?
Now where did you get that Steven was discussing dual tracking, Blue? He was criticizing your buddy Walts (as I was) and pointing out that it was, indeed, his decision to implement this new, “new math” type program. If you believe that you can deflect the facts by taking the issue in a new, ridiculous direction you’re not the person I thought you were…or perhaps someone impersonating TPWB?
Sorry, my mistake. It was Monster_Mom (who I know is an associate of Mr. Santee’s from the “Teach Math Right” group) who pushed for the dual tracks. My mistake in the attribution, but not in the sentiment.
AWC:
Walts is not “my buddy.” I’ve met with him a couple of times, but I certainly wouldn’t say that I’m an ardent supporter of Dr. Walts (or, for that matter, an detractor). My point earlier was that placing MI at Walts’ feet is wrong. The program was well on its way to be selected when Walts came in.
I will say, though, that I don’t see Walts as the newest incarnation of evil that some apparently do.
Now Blue, did I say that Schynder was evil? No…he was just greedy, incompetent, and arrogant. You know, kinda like Walts is going to prove to be, although not before he costs this county boatloads of money just as he did in NY.
Blue:
So your position is to support an inferior math program because giving children an honest math education would be too expensive? Yes, I would support a dual track. I’d also support dropping MI if PWC can only afford one math program. Certainly there are savings to be gained by the MI materials not bought for children who follow the “traditional” track. The actual delta would certainly depend on what the traditional track looked like and how many children opted for it.
As for the logistics, yes they would need to be worked out. Certainly the problem is exacerbated at smaller schools, while at larger schools (such as Cedar Point) you would have more classrooms to divide the students between. The obvious thought is to survey the parents to see which track they would prefer with “either” as an option. Those that chose “either” or didn’t return the survey could be used to balance the class sizes. As for grouping SIGNET/ESOL/special needs children, the decision would come down to which is more important to the parent … to have their student grouped with like students or be in their choice of math track. If needed, you could have students switch teachers for math class so that the division would only be for math. We did that at our elementary school 30 years ago (starting in 3rd grade) for reading as well as math.
There are certainly issues that would need to be resolved, but to throw up your hands and say they’re too hard to solve so we shouldn’t even try is defeatist. If the school board / administration put an honest effort to providing dual tracks, I’m certain that a solution could be reached. Yes, there are bigger points embedded in this fight too … namely giving parents more control over how THEIR tax dollars are spent to educate THEIR children. You prefer control to be concentrated with a few people, I prefer it to be given to the parents as much as possible.