I attended the Gainesville District Townhall meeting and here’s a quick update.
- Transportation projects include the widening of 15, widening of 66 and the Linton Hall Corridor Project are all on track to be completed either early or on-time. And let me just say, I stand in awe of these transportation engineers who are able to squeeze a lane out of nothing. Unfortunately, new project funding is in doubt because of current economic conditions and funding issues related to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority and Bob Marshall’s lawsuit where the Virginia Supreme Court ruled the collection of the funds unconstitutional.
- There was literature available concerning the Journey thru Hallowed Ground designation.
- Transmission Lines have been approved by the Virginia State Corporation Commission conditional on West Virginia and Pennsylvania. West Virginia has given the go ahead while Pennsylvania has not. Also, there’s this interesting article in today’s Washington Post about Maryland regulators requesting electric utilities to draft conservation plans.
- USDOT representative reports federal highway funding legislation runs out at the end of September 09 and will need an overhaul.
- Stirrup again refuses to answer question about his membership in ‘Help Save Manassas’ instead decides to call me an ‘illegal alien apologist.’ Okay, if you think McCain and Reagan were apologists then so be it.But I did seem to learn who’s Stirrup’s spin meister is – Mr. Murphy. By the way, you were not his first choice for the job, greater men with more integrity declined this position. Better get back to crunching those numbers since ER visits have not decreased.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Thanks MH!!
hello,
I would like to think those words would not be used too, but sometimes things have to be spelled out. Thanks for adding those words.
“In general, let’s declare a moratorium on the word RACIST today. I think it got worn out yesterday and frankly, I need a break from it.”
Little minds need little vocabularies.
Also, Kgotthardt or pinko or whatever is a walking talking Godwin’s Law –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
This entire forum got worn out weeks ago so I feel your pain M-H.
We are taking things one step at a time. There is only one word today. It a request, not a mandate.
Mando, the point of the request was to lighten the tone. Did you just drop by to poke at someone or something with a stick? As for your complaints with the forum, surely you are smart enough to follow the logical conclusion here without me spelling it out.
Ha ha. Not so fast, Laf and Hello. I’m going to sneak in a comment about “apologist”. I think it’s meant as a slam and I think Stirrup owes Alanna an apology. He can be a good apologist and make it public as well.
Hello, Clan is a Tribe.
And I would not have brought up the “n a” word if You Wish hadn’t once again brought the subject back up.
Forgive me for having to explain and re-explain my usage to her and everyone else. I won’t bother anyone anymore.
Really, I would like my question answered by Stirrup. It’s a valid question And I can’t think of any reason why it should not be answered. Perhaps the letter to the editor, would get it answered.
Censored,
Not so fast yourself there, little lady. Apology in your comment is acceptable. I do believe “IAA” is meant to slam anyone that gets called that. I’ve used the term before, and I didn’t mean it in a flattering manner.
Ah, aren’t you glad ole Laf is back for you to bicker with? 😉
Ha ha, Laf. I’m gonna do it again and chance the hand-slapping!
I think Alanna’s question was legit. Some politicians, particularly older Southern ones (dare I say “white”!), don’t like to have to defend organizations to which they’ve belong – the Council of Conservative Citizens is one which bites a few older Virginians and other Southerners on the butt occasionally. HSM seems a modern version of sorts.
A google search on “illegal alien apologist” certainly brings up a lot of BVBL hits but it appears to be a common slam used for the most part by right-wingers who are trying to discredit their opponents’ views – and it certainly isn’t parochial.
I don’t think “anti-immigrant” is a term to be so easily dismissed. FAIR – you remember that organization that helped write our county’s resolution – opposes much immigration…legal or otherwise.
belong=belonged
Censored, you are correct about FAIR and some of its immigration policy. It is actually too much trouble for me to sort out. Or as Rick says, one too many syllables.
Moon-howler, I’m just being argumentative because I’m irritated that the weather doesn’t look as though it will cooperate to make “FotoWeekDC” my dream come true tomorrow. I’d planned on going tomorrow, Sunday, and any other day I could work in.
http://fotoweekdc.org/
Great points Posting As Pinko! I think there is deep shame among those followed Letiecq and/or supported Stirrup ans Stirrup. They are sensitive to criticism of these three because they are reminded of their own failings.
I can’t believe there is any confusion about how to interpret an elected official going after a constituent with a demagogue’s term. Somewhere at the beginning of this thread, a very wise woman explained it all, and I paraphrase:
Alanna asks Weasel John Stirrup if he is still linked to a nativist lobbying group on “Hate Watch” radars of the two most reputable anti-hate organizations, and Weasel John replies with an ugly and childish catch phrase invented by the leader of said nativist lobbying group on “Hate Watch” radars of the two most reputable anti-hate organizations.
Nice one, Weasel!
Some just hate to admit to the ugly truth sometimes.
Driving liberals, dhimmis and illegal alien apologists absolutely insane since 2005
That term illegal alien apologist is used on bvbl at the top of the page.
Pinko –
“And I would not have brought up the “n a” word if You Wish hadn’t once again brought the subject back up.”
What are you talking about? Several other people called you out – your rhetoric and insanity is getting old. Even people on this blog are asking you to stop. I also noticed that you took the link to anti off of your blog – hmm – what is that about?
I don’t think those words were meant to be complimentary for some strange reason. What’s a dhimmi?
I’ve noticed that whenever anti-immigrant politician apologists find themselves facing an impossible task (like defending John Stirrup’s weasel-ness), they predictably resort to attacking someone who blogs here. Usually they attack Katherine. Or they attack the admins. Or they just attack anyone and everyone who posts here.
But I don’t think anyone who reads this blog regularly is deceived by this pattern. I surely am not.
Oh and yes the term “anti-immigrant” is well deserved as Moon Howler points out. Just read up a little on FAIR, a self-professed anti-immigrant group that takes credit for writing John Stirrup’s immigration resolution. Since this is at the heart of the issue, it is important to know that FAIR was founded by and is run by anti-immigrant crusaders, and their official lobbying platform is against ALL immigration, legal or not.
FAIR has served as the legalese and false propaganda feeder for Stirrup and his little club, HSM. Being that watchdog authorities like SPL and ADL categorize FAIR and HSM as hate groups and nativist extremist groups, I think it is quite charitable to refer to John Stirrup as anti-immigrant. There are millions of people who are anti-immigrant. I doubt there are 1/10 as many belonging to hate groups or nativist extremist groups.
Wow, what a thread! We’ve unearthed the etymology of “illegal alien apologist” and given birth to a new label to throw around: “anti-immigrant politician apologist.”
I’m sure there are more than a few Gospel Greg clones grinding their teeth over this one, several of who are splinters of the personality of Gospel Greg himself!
Well regardless of all the possibilities, theories and interpretations I don’t think Mr Stirrup was polite to Alanna. In fact it appears he was quoting Greg who learned from – oh I forget who claimed to coin the phrase.
Good ole PWC – donkey diving, Bobbits, Tito the Builder and now author of “illegal alien apologist”.
I’m going to update Wikipedia!!
“AWC, when are you going to stop apologising for idiot opportunists like John Stirrup?”
WHWN, first of all, John Stirrup is not an opportunist, and one of your regulars should be able to attest to that as she was the most adamant constituent of his to push him into the issue…right Chris? I remember when she told me how she was haunting his office to do something…and how thrilled she was when he did (the Resolution). You won’t find John Stirrup mugging in front of the news cameras at every opportunity, and you can hardly say that he has benefited from the issue…he was doing just fine before it came along. No, STEWART needed the issue so he decided to own it and, frankly, he didn’t do any better with that than he did with his support of Stevie Chapman and Faisal Gill. In other words, I agree with you about Stewart.
Stirrup, on the other hand, got himself swept up in a maelstrom because his constituents, en masse, begged him and he acquiesced…and then stood his ground. I consider John Stirrup a man of honor, but I don’t care how much steel you have in your backbone, eventually one would feel the need to fight back a bit when you are constantly being attacked for doing what you felt was the right thing when your constituents came to you in desperation. You want to blame someone for making a mess of it, be my guest, castigate Cory Stewart…but leave John Stirrup alone. He simply doesn’t deserve it.
“AW, since you can’t pick out a single quote where someone has called someone else here anti-immigrant, I’m dismissing your argument…”
Pretty silly, Pinko, given that it has happened right on this thread and Moon-howler was big enough to admit that she has done it herself. I don’t need to go scooping through your threads…there are FAR too many examples, and you yourself offer one that is worse with your flagrant use of Nazi and other inflammatory terms right here on this thread. I must admit, I have wondered if you REALLY know what these terms mean. My parents came from Germany after WWII and I recall that, when I started school, some kids started calling me Nazi because they were told I was German. I had no idea what that meant so I went home and asked my mother. When she told me, I went back to school and beat the pulp out of them! The trouble I got into was worth it!!
Pat.Herve, 14. November 2008, 9:25
“so, I still do not know what an “illegal alien apologist” is.”
Pat, when I first used the term on BVBL (WAY back when and long before Greg used it there) I felt that it was a more accurate, and kinder, description of people that many were calling pro-illegal alien…or worse. My understanding of that particular combination of words is people who, to one degree or another, support the illegal alien agenda and/or lobby. I was actually trying to avoid using the “broad brush” and pigeon-holing them into an extremist position, as well as trying to avoid calling individuals out. As I said before, I doubt that ANYONE is 100% “pro” or “anti” on this issue…and I felt that it best described the broader concept. Does that help?
I can’t accept the man of honor accolade considering the appointment of Advocator to the Human Services Strategic Planning Team.
AW Cheney,
Well, if Mr. Stirrup did get into the immigration debacle because his constituent’s in certain precincts begged him to; his involvement sure had interesting results. If I’m right, Chris lives in either the Westgate or Sudley North precinct. I would think that those two precincts, plus the Sinclair precinct would have had the highest influx of “illegals” out of the 12 precincts that make up the Gainesville district. It is interesting to note that Stirrup LOST those three districts in his bid for re-election last year. He handily won the wealthier, more homogenous precincts, but lost all three of the precincts that would would presumably have been happy about “the Resolution”. I think this serves to demonstrate that he listened to people upset with the demographic change in their neighborhood, but obviously those concerns weren’t shared by the majority of his constituents in those precincts because he didn’t win them.
You ever considered the possibility, Juturna, that being constantly, and unfairly, scourged by extremists such as yourself could drive anyone into the arms of the opposite extremists? You know the old adage don’t you…”The enemy of my enemy is my friend?”
AWC, you’re so funny, and consistently funny at that. Don’t you realize that most of us were trusting local government to the Supervisors and county employees UNTIL our government was taken over by “extremists?” The fact that you had the bright idea to call anyone who stands up deranged and impractical ideologues “opposite extremists” doesn’t justify the deranged and impractical ideologues behavior.
You’ve got the cart ahead of the horse here. No doubt on purpose. Do you really need to twist things up that much to feel at peace in your heart? Isn’t easier to just admit you backed the wrong horse, who pulled the wrong cart, and now we need to pull together to find a way out of this mess?
AWC, didn’t you mean to contrast Stirrup at the sincere hater and STEWART as the opportunist? You said Stirrup for both.
Whoa, those are great points TWIN, I had no idea that Stirrup actually lost the districts where there is racial diversity. Not a big surprise though. It wouldn’t make any sense to start a race war unless you knew you had an advantage throughout the county. The people who had to live with the hate in their everyday lives: not too happy. The people who read about it in the papers: if it’s a war, I know which side I’m on. How did those districts go last Nov. 4th?
I can hardly take anyone seriously, ShellyB, who has an obvious reading comprehension deficiency and they are trying to interpret MY words. That’s all the response that is required.
AWC,
How nice of you to think of me.
First of all, I agree with you on the fact John Stirrup’s constituents needed something done in some of the neighborhoods. John introduced the resolution because of an out cry from his constituents, and Corey being the Chairman got the media attention. I don’t think of John being one with the need/desire to be in front of the camera. However, Corey on the other hand used the resolution as means to get re-elected.
Now, I take exception to this sentence, because it is NOT exactly right.(I will tell the whole story in a minute)
“I remember when she told me how she was haunting his office to do something…and how thrilled she was when he did (the Resolution).”
I did NOT haunt is office! It was John that you might say I “haunted”, and I think “hunted down” would be accurate. Here’s what I mean. It was June 18,2007, a 100 degree Saturday morning at a Community Clean Up Day in Irongate that I got my chance to tell John exactly what was going on in WestGate(TWINDAD, that’s the Stonewall Middle precinct). When I first arrived at the clean up day I found Gail M there, and I explained to her a little what had been going on in WG. Gail took down a complete page of notes/issues that needed to be addressed. I confirmed that John would be in attendance for the day, and she confirmed he would. She told me it would be sometime before he’d be there. I told her I would wait. John arrived about an hour later, and gave a presentation. I then talked to John in great length about various issues.
I told John of the things going on and what a community should be dealing with day in and day out. I also, reminded him he was up for election, and told him we were sick of being ignored in WG/Sudley, and told him just 10 years ago we where the population of the Gainesville District. He made sure that his staff new about my issues, and by Tuesday of the following week all of the issues on my list where taken care of. Trust me, it was no short list either.
I finally felt that things were going to change for the better regarding neighborhood issues. John made a believer out of me, and this was before the resolution was introduced.
Once I saw I could get things done regarding zoning issues, missing street signs, etc. I’ve never stopped trying to better my community. I continue to this very day reporting, graffiti, zoning/building code violations, and contact the supervisors when I have thoughts that I feel may beneficial to the county as whole, and now I’m attending the study circles. I truly wish more from this blog and bvbl would have participated, but I really some are fearful of finding common ground.
OK, so haunting wasn’t the right terminology…stalking, right? JUST KIDDING, Chris. 🙂
Anyway, I do recall that you were ecstatic about the Resolution at the time, and that you spent a lot of time working with John’s office, and were the first one to push him into action on the issue.
Insofar as seeking common ground is concerned, that’s only going to happen when the people on both sides stop acting like two gangs on a children’s playground. The only reason that question Alanna continuously poses to John was asked in a public forum like that (and most certainly in that way) was in an attempt to publicly ridicule and stereotype him…not fertile ground for dialogue. I, as you, am fearful that common ground may be impossible achieve.
Correction: TO achieve. (Mumbling) PROOFREAD. Sorry
Posting as Pinko is a hypocrite. She frequently accused people who came on this blog and disagreed with her as being Nazis, just because they took a favorable view of the resolution. When they took her to task about this, she continued to badmouth them and call them all kinds of names. The evidence is there in the archives of this blog, and there is no need to go find it – it happened on multiple times. She even made no apologies about it, as she continues to do – she seems to think it is OK to call someone a Nazi when that is a very derogative term. AWCheney’s story of how bad it is to be called a Nazi (when you aren’t) is a perfect example of why Pinko shouldn’t be carelessly labeling people as Nazis just because they disagree with her anti-resolution stance. Yet she takes offense at the term “illegal alien apologist”. Calling someone a Nazi implies that person is willing to kill people. Big difference between that and “illegal alien apologist”! Where does “illegal alien apologist” imply imprisoning people and leading them to their death in gas chambers?
I disagree. I believe Alanna keeps asking the question because she feels it inappropriate for her supervisor to be a member of HSM. She gave him every opportunity to respond to her privately and got no response. Therefore, she asks in a public forum where she can have a dialogue. That assessment is based on my conversations with her.
One’s associations apparently are quite important, as this past election has shown.
Whether one agrees with her or doesn’t, we can hardly dismiss her right to ask.
Perhaps the fairest way to assess this situation is to ask her directly: Alanna, why do you go to the town hall meetings and ask Mr. Stirrup, your elected supervisor, about his membership in HSM? What opportunities have you given him to respond to you in private? What have his responses been prior to this one?
Not Pinko,
Let me set the record straight, leaving the real pinko out of this. No one here that I am aware of likes being called an illegal alien apologist. We consider it insulting.
I am doing group speak. If there is anyone who disagrees with what I have just stated to you, they may step forward and tell you personally that they do not mind being called that. Nuff said.
In response to AWC’s comments that common ground will not be found….I certainly do not feel that it will be found on the blogs. Consider the Anti-blog as the Empire Fights Back and why this blog formed. Reasonable dialog was not possible on the dark screen. The anger from people here still resonates.
It is all too easy to speak without diplomacy on a blog. However, the study circles and other community outreach programs are a good place to start and are designed by people with experience in mediation. Chris, Cindy and Marie are 3 people from this blog who attend these sessions in some capacity. We have other people who are associated with family members on this blog.
Regardless of where Chris got started with the illegal immigration issue, I think the important fact is where she is now. She is still working on bettering her community and she is still trying to be inclusive of all, even though some people have practically spit in her face.
Chris was scoffed at and her words were removed when she extended the invitation to the dark screen. Additionally, she personally invited each bocs supervisor. She can give a progress report there. Chris is not alone of course. However, Chris was brought up in the Gainesville District context. She deserves our heartfelt respect for her efforts. Chris has truly engaged in dialogue rather than FAIR approved sound bites.
I never said anything against Chris, Moon-howler…nor would I ever. I was merely pointing out the facts about John Stirrup’s entry into this issue. You can take another point home from the story as well…there are no absolutes as far as this issue is concerned. This is why it would seem so reasonable for people to come together to find that common ground and a solution to what most everybody on this blog and the other could agree is a problem with which we must deal. The fact that the possibility of achieving that common ground has become less and less likely has far more to do with the vast majority (or at least the most vocal) of people most heavily involved in the issue (on both sides) having no desire to achieve it…and, unfortunately, the constant “stirring of the pot” (i.e. creation of anger) which has swollen the ranks of the extremists on both sides. This is where “semantics” comes into play.
Debate and discourse are fueled by words that can either incite irrationality and emotion, or encourage rationality and reason. Right now, the words on both of these blogs (here and at BVBL) tend to create the former, both in their own way. Wouldn’t it be great if they could both come together and only discuss the issue rather than each other. Perhaps they could then both provide a valuable forum toward a solution rather than a means to further stir the pot.
AWC, I did not mean to imply that you had said anything negative about Chris. I am sorry you thought I was indicting you. The person who was so brutal knows who she/he is as I am sure she still lurks. It was inexcusable.
It would be great if people could come together. I fear, however, that ship as sailed. I think what will probably solve the problem is that there are so many other issues that need our attention, that immigration will fall to the wayside.
I don’t think that bvbl or anti would be good test sites. Too much history.
Perhaps that is your niche. Your blog is the place where the rules have been established, from Day 1. You could post the daily topic on both blogs and if people don’t follow your rules when they come over, just beat the snot out of them. 😉
That’s an interesting thought…how would your fellows on this blog feel about it, I wonder? I would never do something like that without permission from the blog owners.
I cannot speak for Alanna and Elena but I believe this blog has always been very supportive of your blog, AWC and that we have all had a attitude of mutual respect. We link to you and I dont feel that the two blogs are in competition. They are just two different types of blog.
I see no reason why a topic couldn’t be posted, at least for a while. We could continue to cuss here and we could put on our Sunday best and clean up our mouths if we decided to venture over your way. And if 3 people got involved to start off, well, that’s 3 people involved. One voice can change a room……
You might have to moderate more than you are having to do now.
AWC,
I believe you are rewriting history. I think in order to be fair and accurate, John S “ambushed” the board with this resolution. Ambushed is a word chosen by a supervisor and it did not come from Marty or Frank P. Citizens were caught off guard, a calculated strategy by Greg, FAIR, et al. Maybe you are forgetting how disgusting Greg’s blog had become, and in many ways still is. When people on BVBL called children parasites, I believe it was only Dolph that commented. Where was your voice? When Greg put up a blog about MRSA and people began blaming immigrants, i.e. Hispanics, for the outbreak, where was your voice? When people comment on the the overall degradation that Hispanics bring as a culture, where was your voice? If you see me as “extremist” for standing up to hate speech and scapegoating, well, that is your belief, not much I can do about that. You talk about anti being the polar opposite of Greg but that only is relevant when it comes to allowing an entire population to be villified. I am proud to be opposite of that type of ignorance. As far as solutions, we have ALWAYS promoted open dialogue, but when people say simply “deport them all”, that just does not seem to be a solution steeped in reality. I, along with many others, want comprehensive reform, requring a pathway to legalization. THAT is where the conversation tends to end. We have tried talking about solutions, and inevitably, it always results in a dead end.
Huh…where did that come from Elena?? What “history” am I rewriting? Looks like YOU know how to make my point as well about the lack of desire of some people to find common ground with others and merely taking pleasure in stirring the pot, and it would appear that you’re showing your true face here. I don’t know where “my voice” may have been…perhaps nowhere near the blog at the time (although the MRSA issue might have some merit, based upon expert medical opinion…but NOT regarding “immigrants”…the legal ones, that is). I can tell you one thing, I never participated in “hate speech” nor did I ever attack anyone unless they attacked me, or others. It happens that I have a low view of people attacking other people, regardless of where they stand on the issue, rather than attacking the issue itself. Insofar as ignorance is concerned, I have seen JUST as much of it here, from the beginning, although from the opposite position on the issue, and on people…the two sides of extremism are alive and well.
Well Moon-howler, you obviously have overestimated some of that “mutual respect” over here. I hope you enjoy being the only adult on the playground.
By the way Elena, I NEVER accused you, or anyone here specifically, of being an extremist…but if the shoe fits…
MH/AWC,
I know that the three of us don’t agree on everything, but I feel confident we wouldn’t resort to name calling, and degrading one another. I can agree to disagree, and don’t feel I’ve lost the battle in doing so.
The invitation was a very sincere one, but it was so much easier to attack me and the invitation to the study circles. The study circles are most certainly NOT one sided. There’s an element of confidentiality, but I will say this there’s one person that is highly opposed to illegal immigration like myself, and lots in the middle, and some at the opposite end of the spectrum from mine.
I felt it very would be productive to have some HSM members attend, and others from the circle felt the same way. I would think something like a study circle would be something that a “civic organization” like HSM should/would be participating in. The members could voice their OWN opinions and NOT talking points. Talking points are something I’ve never needed to resort to, due to the fact I have many personal life experiences to back the feelings I have regarding illegal immigration.
Common ground must be found to resolve the problem of illegal immigration. Until, that time the extremists from both sides will continue to make themselves look less than credible.(imho)
Moon-howler: And no one likes to be called a Nazi either – when they aren’t one. So the comparison is apt. But it is obvious there are two sets of rules at play here: It is OK to label people as Nazi’s, Greg clones, etc., but not OK to use the apologist term. It’s good to know what the rules are!
Chris, I think the reason you’ve stood out from the crowd, even while a member of HSM, is that you’ve spoken from your personal experience. You’ve been open to other opinions and you’ve done the necessary work to improve your neighborhood.
AWCheney, why would statements such as these make anyone want to play on your playground? The internet is peppered with thousands of political blogs that offer free-wheeling conversation.
The frequent – no,predictable – quips about how everyone lacks intelligence except you makes me question why you say such things. You write well and your blog covers some interesting topics but your approach to opinions that differ from yours is offputting.
AW check your 19:42 post then your 730 post.
Chris and Elena you will forever be my heros.
Twin that was the best analysis I’ve seen regarging Lord John and his electorate serfs. I think I mentioned previously his wake up call when he realized Sudlly/Westgate was his district. To bad he didn’t meet Chris before Greg. Her intent was good and color blind.