Deal Is Reached on Immigration Bill Affecting Students, Says Senate Leader
Washington — Momentum appears to be building in Congress for passage of immigration legislation that could make some illegal immigrants eligible for certain federal programs, including student aid.
In an interview with the Gannett News Service that was published over the weekend, the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, a Democrat of Nevada, said that President-elect Barack Obama and Sen. John McCain, a Republican of Arizona, had reached agreement on how to proceed with a comprehensive immigration bill. Senator Reid said that he did not expect “much of a fight at all” over the legislation, which would overhaul the nation’s immigration laws.
Congress tried to pass an immigration bill last year, but it failed for reasons unrelated to the education provisions. Those pieces of the bill, which were taken from the Dream Act, would have created a path to permanent residency for immigrant students and would have made it easier for states to charge cheaper in-state tuition rates to some illegal immigrants. —Kelly Field
http://chronicle.com/news/index.php?id=5555&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en
Good for John McCain. I knew he was a decent man. Does anyone know how he gets on with the incoming DHS chief?
I admire Harry Reid’s optimism, but somehow I doubt it is going to be that easy. There are many Democrats who are easily terrorized by automated faxes and hateful emails from people claiming to be constituents. Heath Shuler (the former Redskin is a Democrat now in Congress) is strongly in the Gospel Greg camp. FAIR is not packing it in and going home. And even if they can’t win through the democratic process, there are other ways for the Anti-immigrant Lobby to inflict pain.
TIME TO FIGHT.
If Obama signs this it defines his Presidency.
TIME TO CHEER!
I await the American people’s reaction on this latest treachery.
Rick, if Virginia is any indicator (and I suspect it is with all the hard work of Greg Letiecq and Corey Stewart), the “American people” you are counting upon amount to 1 percent of our population.
Now, I understand that 1 percent of our population probably hates immigrants more than they love America, and that 1 percent of our population is a lot of people and together they could send a lot of emails. But when you consider that 99 percent of America, more times than not, values our future more, values our economic security more, values our national security more, and values our cherished ideals more than they value Second Alamo’s yearning for yesteryear?
You probably are sitting there thinking, no, it can’t be. The majority of Americans don’t want to see the sort of demographic change we’ve seen in Northern Virginia. It’s hell! Well, for you perhaps. But the truth is that even with the Corey Stewarts and Jeff Fredericks running around in Northern Virginia, we still have one of the strongest most diverse economies in the entire United States, we are becoming a cultural nexus for the entire country, and we are looked upon with admiration by people from other states and around the world. This is not hell for me. I’m very proud to be a Virginian today, and very proud to be an American.
There will always be a small clan of sulkers to consort with, and some of them can be incited to anger and even email. But when does it end, Rick? When do you let go of the past and say, America is changing and it’s the only country I’ve got, so I will change with it?
Rick, you are fighting already and you don’t know the terms and components of the immigration reform. You have yet to provide an answer to the question, what would you do, that isn’t silly.
Marching people 2 by 2 down 95 is not an option.
This is about whether to provide in-state tuition rates to illegal people. To choose NOT to provide it to honest Americans who play by the rules and don’t fake residency, but to give it to people who aren’t legal residents. This is part and parcel of a contempt for people who play by the rules and encouraging people to break them (if and only if it reduces wages in America).
NGL it’s a lot more than 1% of people who have concern on this. You’ll see.
Concern is one thing, but a willingness to put more pressing issues aside, and hurt the country and hurt our future? It’s hard to understand the psychology for that.
As others have said on this blog, the very cynical political strategy here was to unite the Republican party and split the Democratic party. What you’ve done is the reverse. Half the Republicans will go with McCain and Obama on this, perhaps more than half. And if the Democrats have any spine or any foresight, they will stand with McCain and Obama too.
So what’s left for the sticklers for “them vs. us” politics? Let’s just say 20 percent of America would still rather destroy our economy to keep our demographic breakdown from going toward no clear majority (no white majority). I’m giving you 19 extra percentage points, Rick. What are they supposed to do facing a collective decision in a democratic process where majority rules?
Well, they can fake it. Greg Letiecq has proven nothing other than that a small band of extremists can generate a lot of emails to intimidate lawmakers. They could hold rallies, as Robb Pearson did up north, and of course they can manipulate talk radio and anti-immigrant TV hosts. If a few hundred people work around the clock they can make the whole process of achieving immigration reform as rancorous and divisive as desegregation was a generation ago. They might even fool some lawmakers into believing their constituents want continued gridlock and hate-mongering. But what good would it do? Every ounce of work they would put into it would only prove the points of people like Obama and McCain who are saying we need a sensible and effective immigration policy that is in keeping with our core values as a nation. We’re going to get there anyway. The question is, how difficult is the radical minority going to make it?
I say this not to hurt your feelings, Rick, but to appeal to you to be a leader among your peers and consider a different path. You know more about this issue and the impacts of the “crackdown” non-solution than just about anyone on your side of the issue. If you decided to join the political process rather than fight it, the solutions we reach might be more to your liking, and, perhaps more importantly, you could help our country avoid the kind of racial discord that led to at least two murders in recent months.
Rick, in your mind, what is the difference, from a human point of view, in a senior in high school in China applying for a visa, coming here to college, getting an education, leaving and returning to China and….
a Latino kid, brought here to Virginia at age 2 who was educated in the USA and applies to college his senior year, gets an education, stays here and uses his degree?
Should anyone get tuition free education? Oh the Latino kid’s parents immigrated illegally.
Ricardo Bentley,
It’s too late.
Amnesty 2009 is almost here.
You’re finished.
“but to appeal to you to be a leader among your peers and consider a different path”
The Rule of Law resolution and all the publicity on the issue in PWC has made my life better, my family’s life better, my neighborhood safer. You must live in a very different world than me.
As to “crafting a solution” i am entirely against it. We ned no “solution” and it is impossible to craft one that doesn’t reward people for breaking the law, thereby encouraging larger and larger waves of illegal immigration. i say again, the red carpet is either out, or it is not.
“Rick, in your mind, what is the difference, from a human point of view, in a senior in high school in China applying for a visa, coming here to college, getting an education, leaving and returning to China and….
a Latino kid, brought here to Virginia at age 2 who was educated in the USA and applies to college his senior year, gets an education, stays here and uses his degree?”
What do you mean “from a human point of view”? You mean ignoring whether something as silly as “the law” was followed? I can generalize that logic out to defense of pedophilia, child pornography, robbery, etc. etc.
The kid’s PARENTS need to punished and disincentivized. The red carpet is either out, or it is not. I want the message out loud and clear – you can’t just waltz in here and get your kid into our colleges.
How harshly does this punish the kid? Well, they have the option to declare independence from their parents and establish residency, then get an in-state rate. Same rules as for Americans who follow the law. That’s not enough? Your heart bleeds anyway? You want, for the sake of charity, a special type of rule for those who aren’t citizens. An American citizen meanwhile whose parents don’t qualify for residency in Virginia, let them take the harder path. Let’s worry instead about the kids who speak Spanish. They’re presumed disadvantaged and directionless, so let’s give them special treatment.
Mackie, no need to rub it in.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that Rick Bentley is more comfortable in the 1%, or 20%, or whatever you want to call it that doesn’t want to see this problem fixed.
I prefer to look at it as past vs. future. In every generation, there have been a group of people stuck in the past. Most times, our great democracy has held up to the test of backward thought, and we have moved forward without much more than a whimper from those who are stuck in the past. There will always be pockets of society where they can retire to live out their days.
Fixing immigration will be just one of the many sweeping changes. All of which will make our economy stronger and our people safer. Meanwhile, we can be tolerant and understanding of those who would have preferred things went a different way.
I’ve never been a regressive person. Put most Americans into PWC circa early 2005 in neighborhoods full of flophouses and you’ll get the kind of anger you’ll get from me on this issue for the rest of my life.
Amnesty 2009 ain’t going to happen. Obama will fight for it and obfuscate the truth – just like Bush did. Maybe Obama will go a little harder, try to push for Amnesty before his auntie who lived in taxpayer-subsidzed housing while illegal gets deported, but I think Bush went hard enough. Reid says McCain is on their side – and? is that new? Amnesty 2009 will fail again and hopefully fail hard enough to send the message.
And I want to help to take a huge gaping bloody bite out of Obama’s side as soon as he goes anywhere near Amnesty for illegal aliens. We as Americans need to make this not just a third rail in politics but a huge jagged steel trap.
But this is not 2005, Rick Bentley. Talk about regressive! The time of “me first, at the expense of my neighbors” has passed. We are entering an era of doing what is best for the country, and there just won’t be anyone in government who would be for following the path that Help Save Manassas led this county on. If you try to make PWC an example for federal lawmakers, they will laugh in your face. They are concerned about much bigger things, like our economy. And any policy that hurts the economy is just not worth it. Gov. Napalitano knows this better than anyone except maybe Craig Gerhart. You don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.
Oh sorry i didn’t realize you wanted what’s best. In that case I defer to you and your new hero Gov. Napalitano.
I’ll just sit here and happily welcome in all the poor and uneducated that can be smuggled in to my community, and embrace the lowering of wages and eventual destruction of the middle class in America. Well, better go get some materials to learn Spanish with.
That’s sarcasm. Reality is that when Obama, Tim Kaine, Harry Reid, John McCain go anywhere near Amnesty 2009 I want Americans to bite them so hard that they never forget it.
Rick Bentley,
Isn’t there anything at all that’s more important to you? No issue at all more important than “biting” the vast majority of leaders and the vast majority of people who don’t agree with you?
I just don’t see any responsible lawmakers opting for the cut off the nose option. Remember, most of the Congressmen who led the charge against McCain/Kennedy are out of office come January.
There is nothing political (that is anywhere near a state of play) more important to me. This is about whether our leaders are allowed to run roughshod over us and reduce us and our jobs towards third world status, from the safety of their gated communities.
And I don’t see many votes changing since 2006-2007 Amnesty votes. Remember – the Senate PASSED it both times but the House of Reps BEAT IT DOWN. Reid is talking about a cakewalk in the Senate, but that’s nothing new.
Other issues rankle me. us paying 2-3 times more for prescription drugs than other countries. Us bailing out the wealthy and no one being held accountable. Our elites giving each other tax breaks while they outsource jobs and sell of America piece by piece.
But illegal immigration is the big enchilada, no pun intended. This issue to me has festered to unimaginably grotesque levels. I don’t see Christian Charity and fair play when i look at it. I see a rigged, corrupt America where the average worker is told lies and has everything his ancestors fought for (wage equality) taken away by the elitist sleaze who are running this country into the ground. Rest assured the illegals here now will be angry too when the next batch of 20 million come in and undermine THEIR wages. This is silliness, it can stop, and dammit it will stop.
Rick, You are in a rather lonely position out there. You will not come to terms with the notion that there are 3 choices:
1. Get rid of all undocumented workers/illegals/illegal immigrants by whatever means necessary.
2. Give eveyone here total amnesty
3. Meet somewhere in the middle and work out a solution that accepts people who are making a contribution to society and sends the criminals packing.
#1 is a final solution and our country will not participate in that kind of behavior
#2 is unacceptable to most people, yourself included
#3 the only choice left. Lets see what the lawmakers come up with. There is life outside Prince William County.
Rick, I gotta respect your perseverance. Do you recall what the vote was when the House killed CIR in 2006? I know that 20 of those votes went down to defeat on Nov. 4th, but if the margin was more than 20, than you might still be in the ball game.
The question is: how many of the Republicans were voting just to keep the issue alive for electioneering purposes in 2008? I’m sure that most of them will back down now that the issue has proven to be one that loses elections rather than wins them.
Since we’ve been talking about the old racial alignment vs. the emerging multicultural America, I thought I’d share this article from last Friday’s Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/13/AR2008111304111.html
High school students in Woodbridge are encouraged to each lunch with people of different races on “Mix It Up Day.”
This is an open wound, the faster it’s resolved the better. My best guess is that it will have to be discussed by March ’09, since there are outstanding issues like e-verify and construction of the fence. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, it appears as if the Democrats are now playing hardball and will use these items as negotiating chips to bring the Republicans to the table and force them to make concessions.
The Republicans will have to pick their battles carefully and as long as Obama doesn’t waste his political capital then he should be able to pick-up some Republicans along the way.
And Rick, at least with the DreamAct it was the Senate that was the problem the last go around. If this only needs a simple majority in the Congress then I think they have the votes. It comes down to whether or not they have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate.
Alanna, you sound like a Democrat!
If you could vote in Georgia who would you vote for?
You can just picture the Dems (and make no mistake, John McCain is a Democrat) drooling over the prospect of millions of new, poor, unskilled “citizens” that will rely on their big government programs to prop them up (and maybe buy votes in the process). They could care less about the long term damage done to the United States…they can’t see past their immediate goals. Third World…here we come!!!
Moon Howler,
You disappoint me with your “final solution” line. I took you for a more intelligent person than one relying on the invoking of the Third Reich to make your point. Oh well. Your three options are, of course, nowhere close to being the “only ones”. Here’s an option (though not one we’re ever going to see).
Enforce the laws on the books, limit ICE busts to the most egregious offenders (employers, that is), remove all incentive to stay here unlawfully and not assimilate, and let self-deportation take care of the rest. Oh, that would mean showing an ounce of respect for those immigrants who take pride in entering the country the right way, who learned English, who studied and passed the citizenship tests, that sort of nonsense. What an amazing slap in the face to those fine people.
Slow, you do realize that the immigration system is a bottle neck? The laws on the books are more the whims of homeland security. The entire system needs to be revamped so it works. We are dealing with old laws that do not reflect our national needs and we are dealing with DHS tweakings that do not work.
You know, I presented 3 scenarios. 1. getting rid of everyone which is impossible
2. giving everyone amnesty 3. revamping into a workable solution.
I took you for a more thinking person.
Hilarious comedy from Mr. Slow!
John McCain was a Maverick, Sarah Palin was a Soccer Mom, Barack Obama was a Communist, Barack Obama was a socialist, Northern Virginia was not the real Virginia, and now… (drum roll please) …John McCain is a Democrat!
One question:
Do they give you anesthesia when they slip “False Name-Calling Memory Card #6” out of your brain and slip in “False Name-Calling Memory Card #7?”
To go back to what MH said at 14:55…
It’s not just children who were brought at a young age who later in life have difficulty qualifying for in-state tuition rates. Students of immigrant parents who were born and raised here in the US also have a difficult time getting in-state tuition rates if their parents happen to be immigrants. A co-worker of mine recently enrolled for classes at NOVA. She was born here in the US, and went to school here her entire life. She has a full time job, and two part-time jobs as well, and state and federal taxes are withheld from her checks. She has her own medical insurance, credit cards, and is paying for school herself. She also files her own federal and state income tax returns. She happens to live at home, and pays rent to her parents. Because she lives with her parents, and is under the age of 24 (yet she is over 18), she had to prove to NOVA that her parents are legal residents of the US in order to qualify for in-state tuition rates. Fortunately for her, her parents have LPR status, so she was able to bring her parents’ cards to NOVA and qualify for in-state tuition. This makes little sense to me. If one is a US citizen, over the age of 18, pays taxes and files their own returns, and pays their own tuition, why should the parents’ legal status matter?
Excellent question, DB. I would like for someone knowledgeable to explain how this little ball of hatred got written into our state codes.
NGL, its not an issue of “hatred” from NOVA regarding proving STATE residency for IN STATE tuition in this case. Its a two way street…because if the person is living at home with their parents, they are still considered as “wards” of their parents by the College System in Virginia. By doing so, this makes the student elgible for student aid under their parent’s income beyond their 18th birthday. In other words, it works to their advantage because the total of family expenses (mortgage, living expense ratio etc.) are considered when granting aid – so the student has a better chance of qualifying for assistance (and more of it) because of the expense of running a family is counted in their favor. As long as the student is living at home under the age of 24, REGARDLESS of immigration status, this information would be requested of anyone that informs the college they are living with their parents.
By the way, that individual is also eligible (under State law) to be on their parents medical plan until they are 24 IF they are a college student. This is a cheaper option for the student. Try getting a price for a single medical plan if, like under normal circumstances, your son or daughter were forced off your plan at 18 (if out of the house) or 21 (because of age). No where else that I know of permits you to carry your 23 year old child on your medical plan as a “minor” except as a student living under your parents “care”.
Sometimes it nots always about “hate”.
“Momentum appears to be building in Congress for passage of immigration legislation that could make some illegal immigrants eligible for certain federal programs, including student aid.”
At a time when we are facing a very tough economic future this comes up to further suck us dry. And there is applause here.
Tools.
Rick has it right. Taxpayers won’t take this sitting down when this thing gets more attention. Obfuscate the issue all you want – shout racist, nazi, anti-immigrant, blah blah blah – reach into your old and tired bag of tricks but –
At the end of the day all this is is another way to further reduce and redistribute wages. And to add insult to injury, it goes to the least deserving among us at a time when unemployment rates for US CITIZENS is going to skyrocket.
Thanks sleazeball politicians and warped tool bag activists.
“This makes little sense to me. If one is a US citizen, over the age of 18, pays taxes and files their own returns, and pays their own tuition, why should the parents’ legal status matter?”
The whole concept behind the in-state tuition rates is that you get them if your parents have lived here and have been paying state taxes.
LEGALLY.
As to the Republicans getting behind Amnesty – I really doubt it. It’s political suicide for them given that whites are the only ethnic group voting Repiblican. The days of Bush and McCain are through and I expect the Republicans to end up BITTERLY opposing the Amnesty train.
Rick, in an earlier statement, you said:
I’ve experienced some of those problems in my neighborhood in the past, but the problems weren’t caused by immigrants from other countries, legal or otherwise. They were caused by economics (and dope). And they were mainly caused by men involved in the construction trades. This was prior to the influx of Hispanic men to this area and those trades, and these men were often well-paid union employees. Those that weren’t union employees were usually not by their own choice. They migrated here because of construction booms and sometimes left their families in Ohio, Texas, Tennessee, wherever. They shared houses, drank, partied in the wee hours, threw their beer cans all over the roads.
We solved the problems by calling the police or zoning when necessary – usually after talking to the guys proved fruitless. (We picked up the beer cans ourselves.) Generally they moved on after awhile because their jobs were rather transient to begin with. When you live in an affordable neighborhood or the cheapest neighborhood, you can expect some of those behaviors. But, I didn’t expect to solve my neighborhood problems by having PWC preempt federal immigration law.
On the local level, just what do you think the other taxpayers of this county owe you other than police protection and zoning enforcement? Are we obligated to maintain your neighborhood in any other way? How would we pay for this? Who do you think the local “elite” are who are influencing your living conditions? If you say that the lax loans were responsible for your neighborhood problems, they merely enabled the newcomers to do what long-time residents did – buy more house than they could afford. There is a glut of housing in my zipcode in the $700,000 range that is just sitting, unsold, on the market – month after month after month.
As I said, my neighorhood has had its share of problems but the immigration resolution would have solved none of them. Nationally, immigration reform needs to be addressed. Hard-working people need to be able to come out of the shadows and contribute, and I feel that most of them desire to contribute and be a part of our society.
Censored that is largely analogous but here’s one big difference that enrages me. People are actually given a pass here on behaving lawfully if they speak poor or no English and live without valid ID.
Police protection and zoning enforcement would be a great start. I really have neither.
“preempt Fedaral immigration law” yeah right. You mean not accept the corrupt nonsense that flows from our courrupted Federal Government.
Rick, I’ll touch the third rail and say that I think all drivers should have a license and insurance. If that means giving a form of driver’s license to immigrants who aren’t here legally, I’m for it if it means that someone has to pass a test and provide some form of ID and address. As it stands we have drivers who drive on suspended or revoked licenses now. They present the same problems. I think it’s better that they all be in our system.
How are people getting a pass because they don’t speak English? By having material provided in Spanish? Someone who can’t or won’t speak English is at a disadvantage. Most people will want to learn to speak the predominant language, but new language skills are not easy for the average adult to acquire.
People can live here anonymously. The current system validates this lifestyle. Is it in the best interest of America to allow people to live anonymously or to create a way fro them to join the club?
“How are people getting a pass because they don’t speak English?”
People who are here to ensure that Americans follow the rules are stymied when confronted with people who can play dumb about even speaking English, or proving with ID who they are, how much money they make, whether they really live where they are enrolling their kids at school, etc. etc.
Rick, why not bring them into the system then?
Rick,
You are clearly not aware of all the differing status’s that exist. My best friends parents lived in the U.S. for decades as legal residents but not citizens. Her mom never learned English fluently.
Hi Lucky Duck,
I believe both you and NGL have valid points. Dealing with eligiblity for higher education is no necessarily a “hate” issue. Having said that though, if you are a child of undocumented immigrants, you could be denied instate tuition. Because you live with your parents, your financial status is dependent on whether THEY are legal residents of Virginia. There was a case, not long ago, where the student was being denied instate tuition, even though he had been born in Virginia, and even though his parents domicile had always been in Virginia since his birth, however, there was language, within Universities, that asked about parents “legal” status. I know that there are several Univisities, UVA being one of them, that was interested in finding ways to not penalize students caught in this “trap”. I actually spoke to the educantion head at UVA and what he told me was that this is a new phenomenum (sp?) that is occuring because of the new influx of immigrants who were not granted amnesty and have been unable to adjust their status,however, their children are U.S. citizens.
I moved out when I was 18 and subsequently applied to college, I had to prove that I was not living with my parents and that I was not claimed on anyone’s tax return in order to be eligible for financial aid. I think what this issue really touches upon is the need to deal with higher education and its accesiblity for all people. We need to remember that when the baby boomers retire, we will be in a serious income/contribution deficit to fulfill the needs of SS and Medicare. The more educated people this country has contributing to the tax base, the better off we ALL are.
Rick…the parents in question have been LPR since the early eighties and have paid federal and state taxes since they gained LPR status, they have been and still are here in the US LEGALLY, paying taxes….
What more would you suggest they do to guarantee in-state tuition rates to their US born children, working full-time and paying their own way?
Most colleges and Universities will not admit you if you are an illegal alien or if you live with illegal alien parents. To me this is self defeating; self-defeating about what America is all about. Where is the incentive to do well, to not get involved with gangs, and to be the best you can be?
Most thinking people consider education to be an investment in the future. It advances our civilization. A great deal of our tax dollars as a country go towards education. Why would we throw up a barricade to a hard working student because of the actions of his/her parents?
I am not talking about something for free. I am speaking of admission. We let half the world into our colleges and universities on student visas. yet we do not let students into these same colleges and universities who have gone up through our own public schools.
I read everyone’s comment. Okay, LPR status.
In-state tuition is for AMERICAN children. As a taxpayer I absolutely never agreed to, and will not agree to, subsidizing tuition for ANOTHER COUNTRY’S children.
The kids can declare independence from their parents and be treated like anyone else. American kids have to do that sometimes. Sometimes their parents can’t or won’t contribute/borrow the amount of money the Federal Government assumes a parent should pay, and the potential student cannot obtain it through any loans or grants. Nobody’s heart bleeds for the American kids. I know young people in that state right now. They are not attending college or attending it sporadically while they work.
I went down 10 grand in debt to help my stepdaughter get through college and nobody’s heart bleeds for me.
As Elena points out, the whole system is somewhat screwy.
Making exception for non-citizens in leiu of reforming or changing the system for everybody is NOT ACCEPTABLE TO ME.
The person whom I wrote about is an American. She was born in CA. She’s a bonafide US citizen, not another country’s child. Fortunately, her parents reside in the US legally so she was able to recieve instate tuition rates. But there have been articles written about other US citizen students who have also been denied instate tuition rates due to their parent’s legal status. So arguably, instate tuition is NOT for American children at all. It is for American children whose parents are in good legal standing status-wise.