When does it end? Why do people behave like animals?
Friday, Jose Sucuzhanay died of a wounds suffered when he was beaten with a baseball bat. His crime? He was walking home from a church function with his brother Sunday night, December 7. Jose Sucuzhanay was beaten senseless by 4 men who jumped from a car shouting anti-Latino and anti-gay epithets at the 2 brothers. Jose’s brother escaped serious injury and was able to talk to police officers.
The parents had applied for a visa to come make medical decisions about their son. Permission to visit didn’t arrive in time. Friday Jose died of head injuries sustained during the beating. He was 31 years old.
Thr FBI days that hate crimes against Latinos are on the rise.
NYC Latinos express their outrage over this senseless killing.
I’ve gotten used to this now. I’m not shocked anymore.
To DtRT from inside nova: You wanted to know what our spin would be on the guy who allegedly raped the 13 year old girl. Can you not read? I have commented in general several times about child rapists. They deserve their special hell. I hope, if convicted, this one gets the full penalty of the law. Please remember this response for all future rapists.
It is not our policy to comment on every crime commited in Prince William County.
Furthermore, at this point, I am not sure of the alleged rapist’s status, are you?
What is YOUR opinion of the senseless killing in this thread? It makes about as much sense as raping a 13 year old, doesn’t it. I abhor crime and violence against others, regardless of the ethnicity of the perp or the victim.
Lets hope the community steps up and they find the suspects and prosecute them as much as possible.
Innocence lost
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emS98iZTI9c
Hi MH! Is there something wrong with the video link? I get a message on my screen that says:
MALFORMED ERROR
The video you are attempting to embed does not exist.
Please check your URL and try again.
Hi FD, I had a hard time embedding it. It does work for me now but I will leave you the link.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/13/hate.crime/index.html?iref=newssearch#cnnSTCVideo
I hope this helps. It is off of CNN.
Thanks, MH.
You know, Elena, you really can’t trust the FBI. Like the Southern Poverty Law Center, the American Civil Liberties Union, and the Anti-Defamation League, they have an obvious political agenda to slander murderers and hate group organizers by exaggerating the significance of their crimes.
The irony of CNN , home base of Lou Dobbs the daily purveyor of anti- Hispanic bigotry, reporting on hate crime… They just don’t get it.
I’m still trying to figure out Lou Dobbs. I don’t think he’s a conscious bigot. But his words and deeds give aid and support to bigots across the country. I remember him taking a helicopter to fly over the minutemen at the border and looking down with approval for the ‘patriotic’ work they were doing. It’s just mind blowing to think that the goal of the minutemen is to keep out working class immigrants from latin america and that that qualifies as ‘patriotic’.
Dobbs calls himself a populist. So I suppose he’s trying to support and protect the American working class. Nothing wrong with that except he should be supporting amnesty and rights for immigrants so that they could fight in the courts and raise wages and benefits in their respective industries. Why does he keep beating up on the immigrants?
“We definitely have to speak out.”
So said Diego Sucuzhanay, one of the victim’s brothers. And he’s right.
And while we should always be motivated to speak out against violence and the fear at its root, what should doubly motivate us is when people get to such a point as Mackie, who stated: “I’ve gotten used to this now. I’m not shocked anymore.”
It shouldn’t be this way. And we all know it. And comfortable online discussion is no longer enough.
So here’s an invitation to everyone: if you’re interested in gathering together to speak out against the rising tide of fear and violence, let me know. Contact me at [email protected]. Let me know your ideas. Let me know your thoughts.
I can think of no better place to hold a non-violent and silent vigil against fear and violence than in PWC, which has become a center of gravity for race-based “anti-illegal immigrant” sentiment.
And I can think of no better time to do this than at this time of year.
If you’re angry enough, if you’re indignant enough, if you’re motivated enough, contact me. You might be amazed at what a few humble voices can do.
It’s a great idea to do something to respond, Robb. Maybe not during the holidays though because it’s a busy time when a lot of people go out of town.
The FBI reports that hate crimes against Hispanics is up 40% from 2003-2007.
As for CNN and Lou Dobbs, I think they try to present different perspectives. Is Lou Dobbs really worse on immigration issues than say a Bill O’Reilly?
Has DtRT responded yet? Just checking. Nope.
Is that video link not working for anyone?
“I’m still trying to figure out Lou Dobbs.” I agree with Dobbs on EVERYTHING. Key to understanding him is that he wants our elitists to respect the promises they have made to the rest of us at large.
“The FBI reports that hate crimes against Hispanics is up 40% from 2003-2007.”
Proportionately, or in total? We might have 40% or more Hispanics in the US since 2003, so that would mean the incidence of hate crime is about the same.
Mr. Pearson, Is it too cold in Hazelton to hold one up there? Why not hold the vigil in NYC, or Arizona, or Oklahoma? Their violence and/or laws are much more draconian causing grave acts of violence than anything we have experienced here (thankfully).
While the resolution was clearly a mistake, I think another error would be to portray PWC as the “center for race based anti-illegal immigrant sentiment” when other places clearly have gone above and beyond what we have been saddled with.
Our community does not need another black eye as being designated at the “center for race base anti-illegal immigrant sentiment” because of the actions of a few bloggers and two politicians. Its gives the rest of us a bad name (again) and I am tired of it.
Lucky Duck, you stated:
(1) Unfortunately PWC already possesses the “black eye” of being a center for anti-Latino/Hispanic sentiment.
(2) It doesn’t take much to cause damage. The actions of a few bloggers and politicians in PWC is what led to the “Rule of Law Resolution” and the resulting upheaval in PWC.
If “a few bloggers and two politicians” can organize and gather people into fomenting intolerance, then a conscientious few can do some tremendous good by likewise organizing and gathering in order to speak out for tolerance. And quite frankly, it’s about time such action be undertaken.
As to holding a vigil in the locale PWC, it is quite apropos due to PWC’s nationalized notoriety in regards to engaging the subject of “illegal immigration”. As to a protest in NYC, that was already done yesterday.
A quote from Thomas Jefferson:
“While the resolution was clearly a mistake” NOT TO ME or the neighbors I speak with.
“, I think another error would be to portray PWC as the “center for race based anti-illegal immigrant sentiment” when other places clearly have gone above and beyond what we have been saddled with.”
I WELCOME such a reputation and plan to start handing out flyers in Spanish. “In PWC they will lock you up for driving without a liscence”.
True, we had a black eye but the community has not been silent about it. Its been and is being addressed. With all due respect to Mr. Jefferson, his gallant quote is not applicable here as people have spoken out and up. The tide has turned and people are doing things.
Mr. Pearson, have you been to Prince William County? Were you here pre-resolution or after or even after the resolution was changed in the spring of 2008? How do you know its “apropos” to have a vigil in Prince William if you have in fact, never been here?
As for Prince William’s “nationalized notoriety”, well, I remember more tales from Hazelton, Pennsylvania and other locales than from here.
Lucky Duck:
Yes, I have been to Prince William County. Also two months ago I visited PWC, by invitation, and spoke very briefly to the BOCS during citizens’ time. As to whether I was present pre-Resolution or post-Resolution, it is entirely irrelevant.
Holding a vigil in PWC is apropos for one fundamental reason: no other community in the United States has been more reportedly notorious for its implementation of “anti-illegal immigration” policies. Hazleton does not share this distinction. Furthermore, PWC has become viewed exactly as Chief Deane predicted eighteen months ago: as a community which fosters racist sentiment as a result of government’s policies.
Protests, demonstrations, vigils, etc., need not be held merely at the places where injustice occurs, but also where the roots of injustice are given birth to and incubated.
“As to whether I was present pre-Resolution or post-Resolution, it is entirely irrelevant.”
Actually, I think that if you didn’t live here circa 2006 and didn’t see your neighborhood turn into an overcrowded assemblage of flophouses full of other countries’ citizens, you should just zip your lip on what lawful measures we choose to pass.
Rick Bentley:
Read my words a bit more discerningly because my intentions have absolutely nothing to do with laws and.or measures passed in PWC.
Rick, as a citizen of PWC, I don’t like the black eye we’ve been given because many residents of certain neighborhoods refused to address their problems to Neighborhood Services, zoning, or the police department. Your resolution did nothing to address problems in my neighborhood – problems that were/are similar to the problems you faced. Instead you and Greg’s minions chose to address a factor best left to the federal government – immigration status. And, since no one can tell a person’s status by looking at him/her, the MO became one of ethnic profiling. As a result of your tactics, many legal Hispanic residents have become uncomfortable residing in our county and they have left – our loss.
“many residents of certain neighborhoods refused to address their problems to Neighborhood Services, zoning, or the police department”
I’m sure a lot of us did. I called the Police about 10 times on the man-child living in a child’s room blaring music through the walls at us. (After trying 4 times to communicate with him and his roommates).
Who do I call to complain that anonymous people skulk around my neighborhood all night long? Or that my neighbor leers at my teenaged stepdaughter? Or that i can no longer park within 3 blocks of my house? Or that someone showered at night with my garden hose? What type of satisfaction will I get on those?
“many legal Hispanic residents have become uncomfortable residing in our county and they have left – our loss”
I think this is BS. There are PLENTY of Hispanic citizens living in my area. I think you’re drinking the washington post kool-aid. Hispanic BUSINESS OWNERS are upset, their customer base stopped swelling.
Mr. Pearson, you wrote…
“Holding a vigil in PWC is apropos for one fundamental reason: no other community in the United States has been more reportedly notorious for its implementation of “anti-illegal immigration” policies.”
Have you looked at Hazelton’s? Have you really looked at the programs in Texas that have been publized nationally? Why no vigil in Arizona with the famous “Sheriff Joe”? Surely there is much more damage there than in Prince William.
I have been in Prince William for over 3 decades…considerably longer than your visit, and I can say that our process was hijacked by a few. Yet, it was and is being taken back by the many. So please do not judge us all by a few manipulative people. Let our community try to heal itself by itself.
No Lucky Duck,
Not this time.
This is the place for a Vigil.
Rick, the same amount of energy could have been spent addressing the BOCS at Citizens Time – but using photos of the zoning and parking problems and skipping immigration status. People could have requested more police patrols. As it is, the resolution costs us money that could have been spent on NS staff. Or better still, you could have worked to institute a civic association to speak on the neighborhood’s behalf if you didn’t already have one. Civic associations can be a means of meeting neighbors, sponsoring community events, and lobbying as well as a means of addressing problems.
I’ve found that most specific neighborhood problems go away eventually because they’re generally caused by people who are barely hanging on financially. There’s usually plenty of upheavel in their lives – financial problems, drugs, booze, divorce and other matters that strain the budget. Sometimes there’s no money left over for repairs, lawn mowers, etc. The recent foreclosure crisis is but a reminder of how close to eviction many people are.
To each their own. Keep picking at a wound and it never heals.
I notice there is no reply as to why “Sheriff Joe”‘ and his neighborhood are less “reportedly notorious” than Prince William County. Hold a vigil there.
Censored bybvbl:
Excellent points you made about more constructive uses of one’s energies. And there are those who use the “illegal immigration issue” as a scapegoat. It’s exactly what PWC did with the “Rule of Law Resolution” in an attempt to “solve” what was believed to be a massive crime problem caused by “illegal aliens”. Turns out their perceptions of the problem were vastly overmagnified and overhyped, and at tremendous (and unnecessary) cost.
Lucky Duck:
Holding a vigil is not about picking at wounds. It’s about starting to heal them.
Let’s face it, HMS was poised and perched to enact the Immigration Resolution and most of us didn’t know anything about it. There was one real reason and that reason was to elect certain Republicans to local posts.
How do you get that to happen? Get people all worked up with fear. It worked with people who saw their neighborhoods deteriorating and it worked on Latinos who didn’t want to stick around and wait for the other shoe to fall.
The immigration resolution, which as far as I can tell, exists in name only. I cannot find one thing it does to help with immigration issues. It scared people into leaving. It stirred up the ‘illegal is illegal’ crowd who had no idea of anyone’s immigration status really. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have been waiting for months for someone to tell me.
I hear that one high ranking HSM official had illegal next door neighbors. Illegally here from Puerto Rico. [choke-cough-sputter] If residents who had neighborhood concerns had done some of the things censored suggested, how would that have changed things? Would our community be in better shape? I would like to think yes. Divisiveness never improves much of anything. And all neighborhood problems were NOT caused by Latinos.
“Rick, the same amount of energy could have been spent addressing the BOCS at Citizens Time ”
You must be kidding. This county is not run by people living in the townhouses next to me surrounded by the flophouses, or by people whose children are at all likely to get raped by a home invader. It’s run by feel-good elitists in ivory towers beholden to the builders and developers who help the rich to stay rich. It took a lot more than a few effective presentations to make those people care. It took extreme anger, coupled with the knowledge that the whole Herndon board got dumped out of office over the same issue in recent memory.
The sign at 9500Liberty was a vigil. I agree with Lucky Duck. It is time to move on.
I think it is time to move on also. However, part of that moving on will include some damage control. We have serious fiscal concerns on the county level.
And many vigils were held at the 9500Liberty sign during the time it was there. Why start another vigil now – didn’t the 9500Liberty sign and all the gatherings at it make their point?
I have a teenage daughter and she gets leered at by ALL kinds of guys including disgustingly old white geezers.
With all due respect Mr. Pearson…you’re about 6 months too late…let us in Prince William decide and move on.
Lucky Ducky,
If you don’t want to participate in a vigil, then you don’t have to.
But clearly there are those of us who find it a good idea.
Especially with it being Christmas time, a time of healing and goodwill, it sounds like a very good idea.
My proposal (and current planning) for a vigil ought not be misunderstood. This is not about re-opening wounds, moving backward, “repeat performances”, or beating a dead horse. This is about moving forward, tapping into PWC’s clear potential to be a vessel for goodness, and to encourage others to come together and boldly express that goodness in a positive and creative way.
And for now, that’s all I’ll say about it here. Any further information, and once plans are set, will be announced at http://www.robbpearson.com.
If the advertisement for this vigil includes something along the lines of the previous post where Robb said “Holding a vigil in PWC is apropos for one fundamental reason: no other community in the United States has been more reportedly notorious for its implementation of “anti-illegal immigration” policies. Hazleton does not share this distinction.” – then indeed it will be about opening wounds and not about healing. Will be most interesting to see how this is announced, but then again it basically already was above, and it was made clear why.
People who are interested in a Vigil may email Rob. Those of us who are not interested, for whatever reason, do not have to participate.
Frankly, I don’t see the objective of holding a vigil. I think most people just want to get on with things and make it through this miserable economy without losing their job, their home, their car , their savings or their retirement.
I believe a vigil of sorts was held October 16, 2007. Anything less than that will fall flat.
Rick, I don’t find addressing the BOCS as disappointing as you do. I was involved in a neighborhood effort to create a taxing district to take care of one of our neighborhood’s unique problems. Normally a raise in taxes is not something the Board likes to do but it did the right thing in this case. There are always neighbors who hoot and holler but they lose the argument when the community sees the benefit. I’ve also been one of about a dozen people who addressed the Board or wrote letters asking for a remedy to a problem with one of the County’s programs and we saw positive results then as well.
I’ll empathize with you about sharing townhouse or apartment walls, but that comes with that type of housing and is one reason I’ll never live in multi-family housing again if I can help it – although a nursing home might eventually be in my future!
I don’t think having to resort to anger helps a community if another method to address a problem can be found. It usually scares older residents and further discourages their participation as well as making them unneccessarily fearful.
Just another retread of an idea that’s been beaten into the ground.
I agree with Moon-howler, October 16th, 2007 was the most intense vigil there could be regarding this subject. Anything else will not measure up.
Did they beat him up and set him on fire?
The way to stop crimes such as this is to do exacly what was done to stop the same hate crimes in the 1950 and 60’s.
Examine the laws, ensure they are the same for everyone, and then enforce them the same on everyone.
Crime of all types rise because because laws against crime and lawlessness are not enforced. That includes beating and killing laws that are not enforced and should be, and it includes illegal immigration laws that are not enforced and should be.
When laws are enforced people feel safe, they feel protected, they feel that justice and equality has been enforced and they feel that no-one is getting an unfair advantage over anyone else because of their gender, race, religion or ethnic group. When this situation occurs people then do not hate people of other genders, races, religions or ethnicities and commits crimes against people for those reasons.
When “illegals” are stopped and deported from our streets, these hate crimes against people who “look like illegals, but can’t be confirmed or denied as illegals” will go away.
When laws are enforced on “gangs” for instance, those who go out loooking for competing gang members to kill, start being afraid of the law, and gang crime drops.
When laws are enforced on hate crimes, hate crimes stop as soon as the punishment and fear of getting caught is stronger than the anger and distrust of the law enforcement community to enforce the law and prevent vigilantees from thinking they must take the law into their own hands.
When “illegal” immigrants are deported, there are no more “illegals” left to hate and the hate crimes disappear when the enforcement of “illegal” immigration law is enforced equitably and fairly upon everyone in the US, regardless of gender, race, religion or ethnicity. Just as hate crimes of the 1950 and 60s disappeared with the enforcement of “equal rights laws” on everyone the same, enforcement of “illegal” immigration law will cause “illegal” immigrant hate crimes to go away or decline severely.
When their is a disparity and inequality in the enforcement of the law, hate crimes rise. That is a simple fact, evidenced by lack of law enforcement and equitable law enforcement in history. When law is not enforced, crime andlawlessness that these laws are made to prevent, grows in proportion to the lack of enforcement.
These are my thought regarding Robb’s idea for a “vigil”. My first reaction was to wonder “what would this accomplish? “. However, upon deeper reflection on the recent events of latino men being targeted and murdered, simply for being latino, I realized that this isn’t ABOUT PW. This is about something much bigger than our little county. This is about a country in turmoil. This is about the basic humanity that exists within all of us, the basic humanity that John Locke put down on paper, a revolutionary idea, that within each human being are basic rights, a natural law, a law above any man made creation of rules. Thomas Jefferson wrote, ” we are endowed by our creator”, “we” is not meant as a euphemisim for an “american citizen” ,but rather a collective “we” that represents the human race. So although I see PW as an example of what can happen when citizens rise up against that hate, it is obvioius that as a nation, there is a struggle still happening and PW now has a unique opporunity to be the example of something positive. I”m not sure about a “vigil” , but I do believe that clearly, this country is in crisis, and if you speak spanish or look latino, you are at risk by a growing segment of this country that views you as the “invader”, irregardless of your residency status. While I was putting the kids to bed tonight, I asked myself, how would I feel if it were MY children being targeted, simply because of a language they spoke or because of their appearence. One thing I learned from PW, if you ignore it the hate, it won’t go away, it simply spins more and more out of control, like the Tasmanian devil from Looney Toons.
Elana so true, the real issue is why does hate happen in the first place and why is it happening now? The other issue is how to stop “hatred of others”. Historically you have only to look at the reasons for wars of the past and hatred of others (other genders, races, religions and ethnicities) to understand what the proper solution needs to be.
Encourage similarities, rather than differences between genders, rqces, religions and ethnicities, and encourage enforcement of the law, whatever the people agree that law should be to protect themselves from a large number of peole in the world that are willing to harm others for personal gain for themselves. That includes “illegal” people, willing to harm others for personal gain for themselves, thereby causing hatred and fear of “illegals” if the law is not enforced on everyone the same, and “illegal” behavior prevented by proper law enforcement.
I think it bears repeating the following historical evidence for why “love” and “hatred” exist in all humans in degrees and intensity.
I think a very important study and answer to this problem is to examine why people “hate others”. and why people do not hate others, by looking at history.
1. People hate others when they have been harmed in some way, have been threatened in some way, have been exposed to hatred as a means to solve their fears, have been exposed to crime as a solution to gaining what they want for themselves and can get away with crime because the laws to prevent crime are not enforced.
2. People love others when they see something of themselves in others, they are not harmed by others, they have not been threatened by others, they have been exposed to love as a means to solve their fears, have been exposed to law enforcement as a means to solve their fears and as a solution for gaining fairly and justly for what they want for themselves, and realize the cannot get away with crime because the laws to prevent crime and lawlessness are enforced.
3. Historically when you remove differences due to gender, race, religion and ethnicity, crimes against genders, races, religions and ethnicities drop drastically.
4. Historically when you encourage differences, and discourage similarites between genders, races, religions and ethnicities, crimes against genders, races, religions and ethnicities increase drastically and law enforcement covers up those crimes and does not enforce the law equally the same on everyone.
5. When you are naive to believe that not enforcing law on anyone, because you feel sorry for the criminals or the lawbreakerss, then you encourage hatred, lawlessness and ignorance of the behaviors of humans, especially by supporting those humans who are just mean and lawlessness.
6. If their were no mean people, people willing to break the law, or criminal people in the world, law would not be needed and law enforcement would not be needed and then you could ban all forms of law enforcement. Until a segment of the human population stops harming other segments of the human population, you will need law, law enforcement and citizens needs to protect themselves from ALL people who would harm them, including “illegal” immigrants who would harm them, by insisting law is enforced equally on all people the same, protecting all people from those who would do them harm the same.
Law enforcement of the “legal” immigrant law against “illegal immigrants” is the most ethical and fastest way to stop ALL crimes associated with “illegal” immigration.
You make an assumtion that the same basic humanity exists in all of us. I challenge that assumption as a false concept. I seriously doubt that people willing to break laws and harm others have the same basic humanity. I seriously doubt rapists, murders, thiefs and criminals of all types have the same basic humanity that exists in all of us either. I think humanity, and compassion for others varies quite drastically from individual to individual. That is the reason we have law, because their are always people willing and able to harm others by breaking law.
In terms of emotions, emotional and un-emotional acts, and “humanity” the human race is definately not equal, just look at how people treat each other, and how they treated each other in history. When ALL crime and lawlessness stops, then and only then will we have “equal” humanity. The problems we have occur when averyone assumes all people behave and treat others the same and are never willing to ever harm anyone else for personal gain. That is a naivity of the highest order.
A “vigil” will not likely solve this “inequality” in human behavior and “humanity” or “ethics” difference between humans. A “vigil” will not stop humans who are willing to break the law and willing to harm others for their personal gain, from harming others. Only enforcement of law, will stop this and force all people to have a “common humanity” when they do not naturally posess the same “humanity” toward others.
Societies that do not enforce law, collapse into lawless and in-humane societies. Why? Because not all humans posess the same “humanity”, and those that are willing to break law for their own personal gain are willing to harm others without compassion for the harm they have done. That includes “illegal” people who harm others by their “illegal” acts. If laws are not enforced to prevent this they will continue to harm others for their own personal gain.