Media General News Service
Published: January 27, 2009The Virginia Senate today approved a bill that would prohibit illegal aliens from receiving in-state tuition benefits unless they meet a series of stringent academic, immigration and residency criteria.
Under Senate Bill 1037, sponsored by Sen. Emmett Hanger, R-Augusta, illegal immigrants would only qualify for the in-state benefit if they attend a Virginia high school, live in the state and have paid taxes for three years.
Such applicants would also have to demonstrate that they are not in the process of being deported from the country and that they are in the process of applying for permanent residency in the U.S.
The bill now moves to the House of Delegates.
—Jim Nolan
After reading the above short news article, I had to stop and ask, is this a restriction or has the door opened just a crack for children of illegal immigrants. How does this bill tighten up on things? Currently, I don’t think children of illegal immigrants are even eligible for admission to 4 year colleges. Are they admitted to the community colleges in Virginia and what tuition rate do they pay if admitted?
Passage of the Dream Act would level the playing field for these students who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in the United States out of legal status. Those who qualify academically and residentially for in-state tuition should receive it regardless of their immigration status if they meet the criteria of other students. Slapping a 3 year residency requirement on these students when other Virginia students have a 1 year residency requirement might not pass constitutional muster.
Far too many people have criticized children of illegal aliens for joining gangs, having poor high school graduation rates and doing poorly in school in general. Now this same group of nay-sayers will send up a collective hue and cry over these young adults even being allowed in a US college or university, even if they have exhibited excellent academic skills and model behavior. It seems like they just cannot win.
Getting an education always seems like a win-win situation to me. If a student has a good academic track record and has met residency requirements, he or she should be able to receive in-state tuition rather than paying the higher out of state rate. Isn’t this all based on where you live?
I know a young man who graduated from Geo Mason 3 years ago. He was an illegal immigrant brought here by a family member when he was about 8 years old. He was an excellent student, was admitted to a university in VA and graduated with honors. He has since then gotten his papers and is now an American Citizen and is now working on his masters. I am not sure if he paid in state or out of state tuition.
If they want to become American citizens and support our way of life then great. It’s the ones that want to convert us to Mexican or other citizens that have my distain.
Marie, I am surprised he even got in. do the rules change yearly? I think that is a great story. He had no control over his parents’ status.
SA, That’s fair. I think a path to citizenship should definitely be a part of the Dream Act or Dream Act-like education bills and laws. While I have grown to dislike the word assimilation, I do feel that most of the students who would take advantage of ed programs are already Americanized.
Moon Howler,
“Undocumented” immigrants are not supposed to get a lot of things they get anyway. Ask Bank of America, that can’t wait to give them credit cards….ask mortgage lenders (a couple of years ago, that is), who couldn’t wait to give them home loans they couldn’t possibly repay….and ask most educational institutions, that are so ultra-left-wing that they wouldn’t think of turning down a student based on legal status. There is a lot of what is supposed to be and then what actually is when it comes to illegal aliens. Part of me thinks that if an undocumented immigrant has worked hard and achieved entrance into college, then they obviously aren’t the types who are here to abuse our systems, and their parents aren’t that type either, so I’m a little hesitant to say “deport them immediately”. So I suppose I have no problem with this bill. At least it’s not any part of my focus.
This is somewhat confusing. “have paid taxes for three years”,is this refering to the student or his/her parents?
I would think they mean the parents have to have paid taxes. Either way this is intolerable. We are supposed to DEPORT illegal immigrants, not give them tuition subsidies.
Rick, some of the kids you are talking about were born here and cannot get into college because their parents are illegal immigrants. I think it has to do with where the student lives. Do you feel that way about American citizens?
I will be the first to admit I don’t know all the rules and I also think they change from state to state and from year to year.
Slow, I think you are being fair. I agree with you about the loans and the credit cards, not just because of the illegal alien status but also because many people who are out of status did not qualify financially for these extensions of credit. Part of credit has to do with ties to the community. If you have ties to the community you are a lot less likely to dump your house and leave for parts unknown.
Slowpoke Rodriguez,
I think it is unfair to deem the educational institutions “ultra left-wing,” as if they are making these decisions according to their ideals and political beliefs, rather than the law. Plyer vs. Doe 457 US 202 (1982) was a US Supreme Court decision that concluded a Texas school district could not deny enrollment to illegal immigrants, based on the Fourteenth Amendment (Equal Protection Under the Law). This set a legal precedent, and (along with the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act) established some things that educational institutions in the US could and couldn’t do.
Of course most educational institutions wouldn’t think of turning down a student based on legal status…it’s the LAW.
Who actually knows what 4 year colleges do about admitting illegal immigrants? Is it up to the institution or up to the state? How about private colleges and universities? Can they do what they want?
I don’t know. Seeking information here.
It seems there are 2-3 issues on the table. community college vs 4 year colleges admission and also in-state tuition for resident children of illegal immigrants.
Yes, it’s one of those bills that appears to do one thing but in fact does something quite different. These students are the ones that have pending applications or presumably some legal right to be here although not currently recognized. This might be difficult to understand but there is such a backlog in the system, people that have been given a kind of conditional approval without officially being legal.
Here is one article which has some information on the topic:
http://chronicle.com/news/article/2942/va-lawmakers-propose-banning-college-admission-of-illegal-immigrants
and another…
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2008/08/07/should-colleges-enroll-illegal-immigrants.html
I remember the tone being allot different a little while back on this same exact subject. A guy was denied in-state tuition because his parents were illegal immigrants (here illegally for over 18 years) and could not prove that they have lived in VA via taxes (which leads me to believe that they didn’t pay any) and this site, incorrectly might I add, proclaimed “Children who are citizens are being denied higher education!”. Back then it was an outright travesty with you Moon blaming the “anti-immigrant movement” and wondering when the lawsuits were coming. There now seems to be somewhat of a softer view on the subject, I wonder what happened for this change to take place?
MH: One correction. If they were born here, they are not illegal immigrants–they are US citizens by birth. So, this bill does not apply to children born in the US whose parents are illegal immigrants.
“Do you feel that way about American citizens? ”
No.
I haven’t looked at this closely, but M-H may be right. We can’t afford to go the crackdown route, because our economy is already in the tank. So it won’t be too long before “path to citizenship” and/or “mandatory legalization” become a reality. At that point, this bill will be a door cracked wide open for children who were brought here after birth, because there should be very few people who are not on a path to citizenship, and the ones who chose not to start on this path will need to be brought to our attention somehow.
DiversityGal, Plyer vs Doe 457 US Code 202 only applies to primary education, grade school and high school. There is no legal right in the US Constitution for anyone to attend post High School education and college was NOT included in that Supreme Court Decision.
MH, NOVA does not ask for proof of citizenship. Its a community college so enrollment is open to anyone who applies.
Lucky D,
Right…I thought Slowpoke was generalizing about educational institutions, and thus, I provided that info on Plyer vs. Doe.; I’m just saying that k-12 are bound by law and not just following their own political ideals. The two articles I referenced should give some more information on the debate about higher education and the admission of illegal immigrants.
Hey I’ve got a few other ideas for bills that the VA Assembley might want to consider :
– In-state tuition for tax cheats – and their children. Why for example should our own Treasury Secretary’s children be discriminated against because of their father’s actions?
– Scholorships for rapists and their children. These people start off behind the curve as it is and I think that we, the taxpayer, should provide a helping hand.
– Encorage local colleges to open annexes in Mexico and to use US tax dollars to provide in-state Virginia tuition rates to anyone and everyone who wants to better themselves.
– Provide each white Virginia taxpayer, unable to benefit from any of the race-based Affirmative Action programs in vogue at the State colleges we subsidize, with a “Thanks Whitey!” button and an embossed “Forgiveness for Slavery” certificate.
– Enact a formal “Rules Are Made To Be Broken – In Virginia” proclamation and celebratory day which celebrates illegal immigration in our state.
Rick, you should run for elective office – ASAP!
Haha, Slowpoke sees higher education as a left wing proposition because that is what happens when people are exposed to institutions of learning. They start to drift away from their upbringing and consider new ideas. This is the greatest threat imaginable to someone like Slowpoke. But it is our future.
Why is it that people with more education tend to vote Democratic? Why do people who live in diverse communities tend to vote Democratic? Why do people who live in information centers, with access to the internet, major newspapers, and cable TV tend to vote Democratic? Why is the Republican base shrinking to only those bastions that are: NOT diverse, NOT exposed to higher education, and NOT exposed to modern day information technology?
If I were a Republican, I would try to answer these questions, and adjust the party platform, rather than trying to block access to higher education and information technology, and dismissing diverse communities and urban centers as not part of the “Real America.”
Turn, correct. But if their parents are illegal immigrants and they live in their parents home, they can be denied in-state tuition, from what I have read. So, unless they are living away from their parents, they are treated as dependents and then will be denied in-state tuition.
I hope I said that right. At any rate, that is my understanding of the situation. I would love to learn I am wrong.
Hello. Hello. I will mull over your comments and get back to you.
Rick would consider it but it would be too difficult keeping up with all his various identities. Imagine the embarrassment in a press conference.
Hello, I hope I am not softening on this issue. If you give me the approximate time I took a hard line stand on this subject, I will be glad to research it.
I feel very strongly that kids who meet the state residency requirements should get the -in-state rate regardless of their status or their parents status. I don’t think having an uneducated population serves anyone’s purposes. It is not good for Virginia.
If my reaction seems less strident, it is because the article sends a conflicting message. It sends the message of restriction. I see some door opening in it.
We seem to have several levels of concern here. Lucky Duck (great album by the way!) has verified that community college students do not have to prove legal status, just residency. However, 4 year colleges seem to want this information. I have read all sort of horror stories about students being denied admission because of parent status, even though the student was an American citizen. Since college entrance ryules vary from state to state, we probably are dealing with a patchwork of laws.
And yes I do blame the anti immigration crew for preventing deserving students from attending the colleges of their choice. I recall a very nasty, vitriolic attack on Senator Colgan over on the dark screen, fall of 2007, because he voted for some bill that didn’t prohibit student from illegal immigrant families from attending college. Yea, I still blame them.
And not the illegal immigrants themselves. They are the heros in your version of the story. Abandoning their country to robber barons and coming here to help lower wages in ours.
ShellyB at 15:35…you put a lot of thought into that post, didn’t you?
Rick,
Seriously? I did not know you were full blooded Native Amercian? What is the name of your tribe?
So here is MY story, my mothers family fled Russia for America during the pogroms, left with nothing, not highly educated. I guess “Rick”, from your world view, they left their country to “robber barons”. What kind of immigrant leaves their country for a better more stable government? Uhhh, mine and I imgagine “Rick”, yours too. 🙂
On one hand the “anti-Illegal Immigrant” movement says these people are worthless parasites, not paying taxes, depressing our labor market, contributing nothing, staying only within their own communities, not learning English….the list continues. You have people over on the dark screen saying these hispanic immigrants will amount to nothing but gargbage collectors and maids. O.K., stay with me here. Soooo, now suddenly you have this quandry. Are they destined to be nothing but “slave labor” or are their offspring destined for so much more by their very desire to attend college. This, dear “Rick”, is your dilema. You see, once our baby boomers retire, and we have to start payiing for their SS and Medicare, we are going to need this new influx of educated higher wager earners to pay for the subsequent generations that will be looking to collect on their “earned” retirement from the government.
Rick, they are neither heroes or villains in my mind. All revolution is in part, a matter of timing. Perhaps their time has not come yet. And perhaps this is not the group of people to do it. That is another topic for another day.
I do think that an educated society benefits everyone. An uneducated society benefits no one. I feel strongly that the children with good grades who have good behavior should not be penalized for the decisions made by their parents. In-state tuition often makes the difference in who can attend college and who cannot, especially with minorities.
I will always support educated vs uneducated. And you know better than to try to put words in my mouth, if I am the ‘your’ in your statement above.
I hope you didn’t have to recall for too long there, M-H. There is something fairly nasty up today on the black velvet blog about Chuck Colgan. Seems the dark master called him a fool a couple times and referenced right back to what you are talking about.
M-H–did you sneak a peak or is this coincidence?
Let’s see, how many elected officials is the dark master going after now? Colgan, Richardson, Nohe, Principi, Web, Warner, Moran, Obama, Pelosi. Who else has offended the master?
BVBL Reporter:
I don’t know, but I saw Arlen Spector offended Duecaster by stating he believes “all law abiding illegal immigrants” should be offered a path to residency/citizenship. Of course, this is what all “reasonable” people envision as the only practical way out of the situation. Let me get this right…not even 2M people were on the Mall on the 20th to witness history, right? Can anyone imagine what 12M people look like?! That is a hell of a lot of people to round up and deport. Makes much more sense to offer a path with a fine so the government can make some money rather than just throw money into a bottomless pit going after mostly law abiding people. Remember, only 1.6% of PWC criminals are “illegals”.
Turn PW blue is absolutely correct. Any “individual” born here, from “illegal alien parents”, is a US Citizen and has full admission priviliges at any university in the nation. They may not be entitled to “in-state tuition”, however, unless they are “in-state” residents like any other legal resident, who must live in the state for 3 years.
What they do not have, is the parents rights to “residency” as the parents are “illegal” residents. If ONE parent is legal, then the children have the legal residency rights of the “legal parent”. That means they do not have to pay “out of state” tuition if the parent does not live “out of state”. If they declare themselves “emancipated adults” and choose to live outside the home of “two illegal alien” parents then they also are entitled to their own “residency status” and can get in-state tuition if they meet the same in-state tuition laws that all other “in-state” citizens in the US have to meet, and that is usually 3 years of residency and paying of income taxes (through their own job tax returns).
The issue is this, currently “illegal” residents (those who came into the US illegally, including those brought to the US illegally by their “illegal” parents, do not have a right to even be in the nation, and therefore DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT to attend a university,unless a state law can be over-ridden by a national law regarding “illegal alien status”.
If they are in the process of applying for a green card, they have to follow the same laws as anyone else applying for a green card, a student visa or a work visa. ANY of these three solutions, can establish a right to state residency, and “legalize” and otherwise “illegal” immigrant, but only if they follow the LAW regarding application for green cards (and get into the back of the line).
IF They do not do this, why should they be entitled to “in-State” tuition, WHEN NO-OTHER student on a student visa id entitled to “In-State” tuition.
This is typical political ignoring of THE LAW, and pandering to people’s individual rights based on what ethnc group they belong to, instead of what individual National rights they have.
An Illegal person is ILLEGAL, and needs to be deported, until lawfully legalized, using the LAW WE ALREADY HAVE THAT has always allowed a controlled quota of Green card applicants and Student VISA applicants.
These people just want to ignore the law and ask for special legal status, when they don’t deserve it, because their parent’s broke the law. Until they are 21, or emancipated from irresponsible parents, a child’s well-being is the responsibility of the PARENTS.
NO ILLEGAL ALIEN HAS my sympathy, because none of them have followed law, and until they legally apply for residency and green card status, They are not within the nation’s legal quotas, and deserve no special treatment, than any other non-resident alien with no legal status to be in the country.
This will never stop until the law is equally applied to all the same.
12million people caq be deported at 2 million per year. We catch and attempt to deport that many now every year. In 6 years our problem is then solved, and legality will then mean legality.
It is “unreasonable” to reward “illegal” behavior that allows 12 million people to get ahead of 12 million others that are waiting in line for the quotas establiushed by the nation to be “available”. Some people have been legally waiting for 10 years for thier “turn”. Why does any one “individual” deserve any thing more special than another individual who has patiently waited for their turn, by following the law.
When we grant even one person special privilige outside of the law, we harm 12million innocent individuals patiently following the law.
THAT IS WHAT IS UNREASONABLE, the innocent victims who have had “illegal” people illegally get ahead of then in the line.
If you were waiting in line at a grocery store, you would be very pissed if you saw more arrogant and lawless people “cut in front of you” and you would demand “EQUAL RIGHTS”.
We ALREADY HAVE A PATH TO LEGAL RESIDENCY, we are just ignoring it in the case of “illegal” immigrants, and in so doing are harming 12million other innocent “individuals” who also deserve to be treated fairly BY THE LAW. MANY OF THEM ARE FOREIGN STUDENTS TOO desperately wanting to come here but cannot because of the existing “illegal immigrants” preventing them from coming into the nation legally, WITH THE EXACT SAME RIGHTS TO ATTEND a University and even more right to attend a US university on a STUDENT VISA than any currently “illegal” student.
Your sympathies are misguided if you do not feel sorry for those “other” students denied a US education by giving preference to “illegal” students.
Some people’s discrimmination and ethnicity issues, blind them of the need for “fairness and equality to all”. I am not sympathetic to any illegal alien. I sympathize with those innocent people who are harmed and continue to be unfairly harmed and prevented from coming to the US because of 12 million “illegal” immigrants.
I probably feel as strongly about our society being educated as you do about people following the law, Michael. Until we figure out a way to remove 12 million people, like twinad describes, it seems to me that we should maybe do the most practical thing.
I actually cannot sort out why the US citizen kids with illegal parents cannot go to school in-state if they have lived in their state for 3 years. There are all sorts of glitchy little laws that ‘just are.’ I read something about it at the UVA website but it just went right on over my head.
You only have to live in VA 12 continuous months to be eligible for in-state tuition if you meet all the other requirements. Why is this new bill proposing 3 years? We have a strange situation where kids, for reasons beyond their control and who know no other place as home, are sometimes excellent students who want to continue their education past public school.
I am not so mean or so mired in ‘the law’ that I would deny these deserving students the right to an education. I don’t care if they are US citizens or not.
TurnPW, do you know what is the basis for denying US citizens the right to college if their parents are illegal immigrants? Also, many of the sites I went to simply did not mention illegal alien student admission. Am I to assume they can be admitted?
I disagree…most especially that we can deport 2M/year. See the attached article about the “record” number of deportations of illegal aliens in 2007. 150,000 were deported between October of 2006 and June of 2007: 90,000 had no criminal record in the US.
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-08/2007-08-07-voa60.cfm?CFID=103512527&CFTOKEN=24017640&jsessionid=de30123e216f71e3e09d26a4e1c7a145f376
As I recall, the conversation with the Rep at UVA, dependent children’s “parents” must qualify for legal residency. Therein lies the glitch. When I spoke to the Rep (his name escapes me now), he said that this was a new dilema as the “amnesty” era was long gone. So now you had this new situation arise, children born to undocumented immigrants, they are citizens, but their parents are not. As I recall, they were looking into how to deal with this new situation. But he was very empathetic to this troubling new dyanmic that confronts new students.
Michael, I don’t think most of us want to live in a coutry where 2 million people are ’rounded up’ and removed. That sounds like the actions of several infamous historical characters that certainly we do not want setting policy in this country.
In fact, I don’t think I even want to see that in print on this blog. That is a very horrifying thing to think about and it makes us no better than …….I don’t even want to say it.
I also had a fairly long conversation with Senator Colgan prior to the election. This issue seemed to resonate on a “fairness” level for him. He believed that hard working dedicated children should not pay for the decisions of their parents. He expressed some sense of disappointment that people could not see this as a “human” issue or a “childrens” issue.
Thank you for the article TWINAD! The premise that that you can deport 2 million people a year and not suffer severe economic and social consequences is simply not based in reality.
let me clarify, by this issue, I mean the right to instate tuition if you have attended public schools in VA for several years.
Slowpo, I enjoy vexing you into dumbstruck frustration, but the truth is I am a fast typist. It’s no trouble ‘t’all.
I knew it!! I didn’t imagine this. Here it is. Nelson Lopez. US citizen temporarily denied in-state tuition because both his parents were out of status.
Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/13/AR2008031303674.html
Happy ending. Nelson was allowed in-state tuition.
Here is another article on this subject.
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/immigration/2008/03/uva-some-us-cit.html
If you deport 2 million people a year who have done nothing wrong, it puts you too much in Joseph Stalin’s league, if you ask me. That was done to the Koreans living in Russia, by the way. Stalin was not known for his human rights. People tend to overlook him when looking at monsters in history. He killed more people than HItler.
Rick Bentley you are a riot.
Just caught up and thoroughly enjoyed your 14:06 post.
Moon Howler at 21:21
These 2 million people who have done nothing wrong….are they all here legally? If not, then they’ve done something wrong. And deporting illegal immigrants maybe, just maybe is nowhere close to slaughtering millions of your own people. Just maybe though.
Juturna, thanks, I try.
Elena your point is taken. My people came here from Europe.
“You see, once our baby boomers retire, and we have to start payiing for their SS and Medicare, we are going to need this new influx of educated higher wager earners to pay for the subsequent generations that will be looking to collect on their “earned” retirement from the government.”
That’s baloney. Bringing in a whole lower caste of Spanish-speaking non-educated workers, who disempower our own less-educated citizens, is hardly the way to utopia.
Elena why do you think 15 million or so unassimilated poor is the “right amount”? Want to let in 30 million? 50 million?
Or do you just lack the intestinal fortitude to look at the current situation and admit that it’s not good?
Roughly how many illegal imigrants should we be letting settle here, in your opinion? As many as want to come? Just the ones that survive the journey?
Hi “Rick”,
I believe that Robb Pearson posted a great comment, addressing your very question. The reality is that we need a system that works, the one we have has clearly been broken for decades. Until this economic disaster, there were plenty of jobs for everyone. As I recall, no one was complaining from Dominion Valley or Piedmont Country Club about checking ID’s of the people building their homes!
You have seen, in recent months, a decline of immigrants. Some here without documentation are turning themselves in to ICE, hoping for a quick way home. In many ways, our “secure” border, traps the “migrant” worker here, where otherwise they would travel back home. I am no expert on immigration, never claimed to be. There are people who have historical and labor market backgrounds that would be better suited to suggest a solution for you. My premise, has, and always will be, that this country has struggled with immigration from its inception. My hope is to remind people that we were ALL once immigrants, probably viewed as “less than” and “ignorant” by those Americans that came before them. Poor Richard once shared a news article from the Baltimore Sun, circa 1920, it was eerie, just replace “italian” with “latino” and the diatribe was identical.