So, apparently Bill O’Reilly has “declared war” on the NY Times for its most recent editorial, which by the way, was inspired to do a follow up editorial to clarify their position. The NY Times does NOT advocate “open borders” but instead believes in comprehensive immigration reform while addressing our border security at the same time.
Did you know that VDARE, a pre-eminent anti immigrant group, based their name of the first white child, Virginia Dare, born in the new American colonies? Anyway, I digress for a moment. Well, back to my premise about Bill. You will need to read the piece by the NY Times, “The Nativists are Restless” in order to fully understand his subsequent wrath. I also included a youtube video, which from my perspective, allows the viewer keen insight into some peoples fear about the new “color” of America. For anyone who does not believe that immigration eventually reduces itself to race, take a listen to what Bill O’Reilly’s biggest fear is……the disempowerment of “white Christian men”. Hmm, does the converse of that mean that as a “woman” and a “nonchristian”, I may be “guilty” of usurping his power and instead find myself in the fortunate position of gaining the power O’Reilly imagines he is losing?
Not that we didn’t know the war was already on but now it’s official – again.In a jaw-dropping series of segments on last night’s (2/2/09) O’Reilly Factor, Bill O’Reilly and each of his four guests attacked the New York Times for having the nerve to call O’Reilly and some FOX News regulars “racialist extremists” who are clinging to nativism in the hope that they can use illegal immigration as a wedge issue. A steady stream of right-wing pundits go on FOX and call liberals treasonous and worse. But on FOX, evidently, slurs are OK so long as you’re a Republican dishing them out. If you’re a Republican on the receiving end, it’s time for war. And that’s exactly what O’Reilly pledged repeatedly last night, with a unanimous chorus of support from each of the four guests involved. One of them, Jim Pinkerton, made the astounding statement that he was not involved in the Willie Horton campaign ads. There has been a lot of reporting otherwise. With video.
The first of three segments on the subject began with O’Reilly saying that the reason the Times favors amnesty for immigrants is “primarily” because it’s “a way to gain political power.” It was a charge he’d repeat several time that night without offering any evidence to support it.
Elena, will you please post the youtube link to this video? I can’t get this imbedded clip to work on my laptop…keeps freezing. This is an important issue. Thanks.
Firedancer,
I’m not sure which clip I used, I thought it was youtube. Let me know if this works any better!
Well, for those who have strongly criticized me and others for exposing the racism that’s at the root of the anti-illegal immigration movement, they need only look to Bill O’Reilly anymore.
O’Reilly confesses that the issue is all about what he refers to as the “white Christian male power structure”, which he believes is the foundation of stable American society. And he furthermore believes that the NY Times wants to see the unbridled influx of millions of foreign nationals in order to “break down the structure that we have”.
Extremely silly.
And it would seem O’Reilly is lost on the very irony of his own perspective, considering we just elected a black President to the highest office of our “white Christian male power structure”. Because by electing a black man to the Presidency we ensure the preservation of that “white Christian male power structure”, right? Yeah. Uh huh. Okay Bill.
And then there’s what John McCain had to say:
Obama wasn’t lying when he said McCain just doesn’t get it. And it would seem the same would apply to O’Reilly.
Much better, thanks. In the meantime I went to all the links, so I got the picture!
I can’t believe O’Reilly can say with a straight face that we want to bring in all these immigrants to destroy the white christian male power structure. What’s wrong with acknowledging that that is, indeed, the power structure that runs the country, and that power should be shared?
….unless you really DON’T want to share the power structure….
Maybe Bill didn’t get the most important lesson from Kindergarden, sharing. Like my four year old tells me all the time “Mommy, sharing is caring” 🙂
Hi Robb!
Preserving the white male Christian power monopoly is not more important than the prosperity and security of our nation as a whole. Women and minorities are not America’s enemies; they are America. How will we get this through to these frightened and deranged extremists?
I hope everyone reads the entire piece quoted by Elena in this thread. A blogger named Ellen piledrives O’Reilly into the ground. Click the blue title at the top.
Lathered Up This Morning!!
What can I say….you have Mackie as your mouthpiece, who represents everything and all things you believe in, and we (apparently) have Bill O’Reilly.
HUH Slow?
Almost everyone, at one time or another, has strongly disagreed with Mackie’s prejudicial comments. I am wondering, what do you think about the actual post and the points made in the NY Times article? What are you thoughts on what Bill O’Reilly stated on his show about “white christian men” losing their power?
O’Reilly is absolutely right that the reason Democrats and liberals lean towards Amnesty is because it will strengthen their political power. It will increase poverty, hurt our schools, strain our health care system, and move us further into wage inequality, but it will result in a Democratic stranglehold.
And it’s obvious and no secret.
Reading that account of O’Reilly’s show, I am heartened. He’s been split on this issue and now I think he’s got his head on straight.
As soon as one of the political parties gives the American people a choice on this issue, the choice will be made loudly and forcefully. I am quite sure that O’Reilly staking an aggressive position on this will help swing the GOP away from the inane path they’ve been on.
Rick,
So clearly you concur with Bill’s analysis about the “white christian male” losing his power then.
When did he say that? last night?
I don’t entirely agree with his general arguement that the “SPs” have declared war on Christmas and are trying to take over America. But I think you’re/we’re mixing and matching quotes here and confusing issues.
To me this isn’t about whites, Christians, males being disempowered. But i agree with any assertion that the Democratic party’s primary real concern is political, mining votes.
O’Reilly’s main motivation is almost surely personal and psychological, but whatever it is, he has a big audience and I applaud this.
I hope he turns into Lou Dobbs 2 and talks about this every night!
I am certain that if Bill O’reilly or George Bush or John McCain or a few other key Republicans had ever lived through what I did living next to a flophouse full of illegals that they’d be as upset on this issue as Lou Dobbs and Michelle Malkin put together. Instead we’ve been living ina nation where the wealthy tell the rest of us what our reality is, how we should feel, and which of our laws they will choose to uphild and which they will undermine and attempt to redefine.
Oh, and Rick, did you see Colbert last night? It was great. Apparently the GOP is now putting up Rush Limbaugh as their face of the party, not so much Michael Steele. So far their strategy to divide and conquer has been really successful. Oh wait, actually, that has been a trifecta of losses…..President, House, Senate….hmmmm, I’m thinking maybe they need a DIFFERENT strategy actually, one of inclusiveness.
http://www.colbertnation.com/home
click on feb 3rd episode, “army of one” and you will see what I mean. Is the past the future of the GOP, only if you wish it into obscurity.
Rick,
The class warfare you are referencing isn’t about immigrants, it’s about banks, and corporations, about lobbyists, about the notion that our democracy is bought and sold to the highest bidder.
Elena – the GOP is not my party. I have become, and will remain, a single issue voter. And neither party is yet giving me a choice on that issue. As far as I’m concerned both parties are so corrupt as to be useless, and we need some fresh air in this country. Steele, Limbaugh, whoever – I only care whether they can move their party towards giving America a choice.
My arguement with our elites is LARGELY about illegal immigration. Pretend all you want – it has costs for our nation, and those costs are huge. And we can’t afford any more of this court-mandated BS where we take care of anyone who cares to wander across our border and invest them with a host of rights and privileges.
You may or may not think my concern is racial makeup, but it’s not. My heart is with the people I grew up with, who built this country into what it is and whose birthright is being taken away from a class of elitists who never play fair – they swear on Bibles and then pick and choose which laws to uphold. They rig the game, in favor of powering wages at any cost and taking away any leverage from the American worker at any cost. And, from their ivory towers and gated communities, they tell the rest of us to learn to love the new diversity that we are forced to subsidize. I’m convinced that this is the issue of our times and that America is being transformed. Not by “social engineering” or by O’Reilly’s “SPs”. But by our elites in such a manner as to guarantee low wages and endless supply of labor for those who own.
Rick, the GOP candidate for president who made “this issue” his central cause did worse than any other in the pack. If there was some yearning for what you claim, then at least Tancredo should have managed to poll out of the low single digits. Romney also wasn’t particularly helped by “this issue.”
Now this isn’t to say that a future politician or party couldn’t do well taking a rabidly nativist stand if the economy continues to sink. But you seem to pretend (without any evidence whatsoever) that the American people (TM) have never been given a clear choice on this question. Tancredo could not have been more visible on it and others as well.
you can have a big line of credit and plenty of goods
you can have abortion legal/illegal as you see fit
you can have the illusion of whatever you want
as long as you agree to let our ruling class to continue to sell this country away
Rick:
How did you know the people next to you were “illegals”? Did you have the police identify them (which obviously they can’t outright do) or did you “just know” because their skin color and appearance was different than yours?
True Leila. It didn’t catch on yet in the larger sense. I’m hoping that now that those bastions of white male anger, O’Reilly and Limbaugh, talk about it forcefully that the issue will have to be dealt with.
Robb : They didn’t speak English, lived 12 to a single-family townhouse, and came in during the 2005 invasion of PWC when flyers were circulating in Mexico with maps to my town. It’s possible that they are not illegal but much more likely that they are.
Robb you have been very opinionated on this issue, on both sides of it. Did you ever actually live next to a flophouse? As I did? Did you get a dose of what that feels like raising a family next to a houseful of anonymous people who you know aren’t being tracked by our government? for the sake of someone’s “cheaper lettuce”?
Okay Rick, at least we’re getting somewhere.
So obviously the answer is you really don’t know what their residency status actually was.
But here’s the real problem, Rick: you automatically disparaged your neighbors as “illegals” simply because their language was different, they appeared Latino/Hispanic, and their living situation was poor. And when folks like you use the word “illegal” to label such people, it’s code for “them f***ing Spics”. Because, again, unless you have evidence that they are in the country illegally, then the label “illegal” is assumptive and therefore bigoted.
Rick:
Did you go over and talk to your flophouse neighbors? And by “talk to” I don’t mean “talk at”. I mean actually engage in constructive dialogue. Did you even attempt that? And if so, how many times?
Rick, to answer your question, I was practically raised in a flophouse. I grew up extremely poor, in a very tiny three room home with creeky wooden floors, too much dust, and too much draft. It was on Monroe Avenue in a town called Victory Gardens in Morris County, NJ. And the homes next to us were equally as downtrodden.
And our neighbors were mostly black, and when one of them acted less-than neighborly (which was extremely rare), mom and dad talked to them. And things always got resolved.
Rick, you stated:
If the loud, poor, flophouse family of 12 was white, would you want the government tracking them? Or is your desire for government tracking reserved for non-whites only?
Robb you’re inviting me to rehash things I’ve spoken about at length here, repeatedly.
Cue the Jeff Foxworthy accent : “If you live 12 to a house – and don’t speak English – you just MAGHT be an illegal alien”.
Yeah I interacted with them, between 5 and 10 times I knocked on their door. Once I ever bothered to translate my concern (with the loud music blaring through our bedroom wall) using an on-line translation web utility, since usually when I knocked on the door to ask neighbor-to-neighbor questions no one spoke English. On reflection, i would not do that again. I erred on the side of friendliness.
“Engage in constructive dialogue”, that’s funny Robb. How the F do you think that will happen if they DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH? A HOUSEFUL OF TWELVE WHO DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH? Who when i ask “Do you know who mowed your lawn? Can they stop mowing half of mine when they do that?” can’t communicate in any way with me?
I never called anyone “spic” and at some point in this interaction I don’t care what their “code” is. If they want to live in America, they need to learn our code.
Assumptive? Therefore bigoted? As I’ve discussed here I’m completely comfortable with that being said about me if it makes just one group of illegals less lilely to open a flophouse on my block, leer at my daughter, have their friends use my garden hose to shower, bang music though my walls (an overgrown “man” living the high life in a room intended for a small child), etc. etc.
Robb you’re looking at this from the opposite angle from me.
You say that because legal residents have the ability to make my life difficult, I should suffer it from illegal aliens.
And I say no.
And I confess that I hadn’t thought much about why these people were here, and why our government won’t enforce laws to help protect American citizens, until suffering next to the flophouse. But now I have thought about it, a lot.
I’m guessing your mom and dad were able to speak to their neighbors in English.
“If the loud, poor, flophouse family of 12 was white, would you want the government tracking them? Or is your desire for government tracking reserved for non-whites only?”
You wrote something really silly here, but I’m glad you did. because this is what I resent most of all about this whole phenomenon.
THE GOVERNMENT DOES TRACK CITIZENS. They know my driving record. They know any history of sex crimes, or felonies. They make most of us pay our taxes, or they punish us. (Geither and Daschle excepted). If we use fake ID to personally enrich ourselves, we’re considered criminals. We can’t just wipe our slate and start again after we’ve broken laws in these ways.
And, unless we’re really wealthy – Marc Rich wealthy – there’s no amnesty awaiting us when we do these things.
Rick, you see I don’t buy your class analysis when A. you bring up white male anger as a useful weapon, and B. your perspective actually seeks to divide the working class along nativist and ethnic terms. If this was really about legal versus illegal and not about your abhorrence of having a lot of Spanish speaking people being very bad neighbors you wouldn’t speak in those terms.
So now you are a champion of white male anger? It isn’t a problem that that anger may be directed against any non-white presence, not just illegal immigrants? I see plenty of the same white male anger against black people. Are you favoring that now too? Presumably not, given your own situation. But how are you going to rein in this white male anger you are so intent on building once it’s unleashed. How are you going to make sure it only targets who you want targeted?
Rick, I am talking about breaking down barriers. Social, cultural, linguistic, etc. As opposed to building barriers, erecting walls, creating divides.
BUT . . . you never answered my question: did you even try to talk to your neighbors? Did you even try to determine if they spoke even a little English? Based on your responses so far, it would seem the answer is no.
Because you compounded your assumptions, which grew your prejudices.
Yes Leila I spoke of O’Reilly and Limbaugh as champions of “white male anger”. Because that’s their core audience and they are both mining it in a big way. I don’t like everything about them. I think Limbaugh has a clear racial animus and should be ashamed of some of what he says.
Not every angry white male is especially prejudiced. (Limbaugh is. But he has freedom of speech, and freedom to make a spectacle of himself as with the Donovan McNabb stuff a few years ago).
Bottom line no I don’t see Limbaugh or O’reilly as the impending faces of fascism in America. And even if they say stuff I don’t agree with on black/white relations that doesn’t mean that there’s no value in the dialogue.
I don’t like some left-wingers that much either (off the top of my head – Jesse Jackson, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid) but if they started to talk about the problems and costs associated with illegal immigration i would welcome and applaud it.
As to the government “tracking its citizens” . . . talk about an unconvincing argument.
Putting aside the tracking of driving records and felonies, exactly what kind of tracking would you want your government to perform on your non-white neighbors whose residency status you really aren’t aware of?
QUESTION: Is it possible your neighbors were from Puerto Rico?
Before you start to hear the sound of jackboots when you hear Limbaugh’s voice, remember this. When he made his inane comments about Donovan McNabb a few years ago, which was a news story because some football TV show had hired him (briefly) the mostly male and largely white population of football fans in the US had a fairly universal reaction to Limbaugh’s assertion that black quarterbacks were doing well because the NFL was favoring them. They almost universally said that he was a dolt.
Robb, it’s possible that they were from Mars. It’s also possible that my apparently black neighbors next door are really white and are using blackface to fool me. For that matter it’s possible that my old neighbors could speak perfect English but were acting the way they were just to irritate me and to find the limits of my tolerance.
Here’s a question for you since we’re asking hypotheticals – if the presence of illegal aliens made wages go higher rather than lower, do you think our political elites would have cracked down on it?
“Putting aside the tracking of driving records and felonies, exactly what kind of tracking would you want your government to perform on your non-white neighbors whose residency status you really aren’t aware of?”
I want our government at all levels to work aggressively to deport all illegal immigrants. Even Aunt Zetuni. I want e-verify in place and I want PWC police to ask for ID at every traffic stop and deport everyone who doesn’t belong here. Also, since you asked, I want life to be very inconvenient for them on the trip back home, and i want their assets seized, so that they tell their countrymen that maybe it’s not worth the trip over to sneak in here and steal bread from Americans’ mouths.
Rick, I never mentioned fascism. You did. One doesn’t have to bring up an extreme to worry about what it means to promote white male anger. You also didn’t respond to what I said about a class issue. I think that is because your analysis is fundamentally not for the working class since it seeks to divide it.
You hint above at what you have stated explicitly before. You are a single issue voter, it appears, and that has made you advocate torture and other forms of physical abuse of immigrants in detention as a deterrent method. You are a single issue voter as you claim, and it has made you advocate things that no person who actually values this country and this country’s constitution would advocate.
White men can’t be angry? Non-whites and women are supposed to have a corner on that market?
I didn’t suggest “physical abuse”. I meany discomfort as in keeping people in cells long enough that they couldn’t earn money, long enough that it impacts their bottom line.
Rick, I hate seing you get beat up like this. People just want to believe what they want without looking at reason.
Robb, get a grip here:
NOTHING is further from the truth here. It seems that if someone steps up and says that there is an illegal alien issue around us they are automatically labeled a nativist or such. Yet when someone wants to call the ILLEGAL alien exactly what they are, it is racist towards them. HMMM double standard here??
Also robb, Rick did answer your question:
It is time to get the ILLEGAL aliens under control and implement a program where they go home and enter the right way. How is it fair for those who have come to America the right way if we allow amnesty for those that came here the ILLEGAL way?
Still trying to figure out how we are able to determine who is legal and who is illegal. Been trying for a long time. Let’s see, they don’t speak English. Most immigrants don’t speak English unless there is a need to. Some American citizens don’t speak English. Not all Puerta Ricans speak English.
Yes, illegal immigration is not a good thing. It causes problems. My irritation buzzer goes off over several things though. First, illegal is an adjective. There are no such thing as ‘illegals.’ There is no noun form. This grouse isn’t about political correctness, it is about proper usage. Second irritant: not everyone who speaks Spanish or is Latino is Mexican. In this area, only about a quarter of the Latinos are from Mexico. Third irritant: just because someone speaks Spanish, it doesn’t mean they don’t speak English. Most adults are slow to learn English anyway. Those who work in heavy Latino industry or don’t work often speak very limited English, even if they have been here for years.
I do not understand why this issue isn’t seen more as a class issue. Low wage earners are colliding with middle class families. If there were more affordable housing for low wage earners, it would not be necessary for multiple families to pool resources and invade the inner sanctuaries of middle America.
“Still trying to figure out how we are able to determine who is legal and who is illegal. ”
Simple. Enact a Rule of law in your community where anyone caught say driving a car who is not a citizen gets deported. Watch who runs away – those are people who are illegal. Next, enact e-verify and watch who leaves.
“If there were more affordable housing for low wage earners, it would not be necessary for multiple families to pool resources and invade the inner sanctuaries of middle America.”
With the current situation of wide-open borders and employers able to take fake IDs, that would only lead to an even bigger influx and more and more overcrowding.
Rick, you have offered an impressive, interesting, intellectual dialogue with folks that cannot and will not be persuaded as they are steadfast to the ideology that has their minds in lockdown period. Read back through the posts. Elena set the trap, you stepped into it and Robb and Leila went for the kill. So typical of how conversation often goes on this blog. The stealth missile is launched on anyone who does not conform to their ideology or does not defend their position with a substantiated hypothesis according to the terms of logic that is in place on this blog.
And it is unfortunate. If, in fact, this blog was into fairness and equality when it comes to a different viewpoint, there would be a totally different approach to the opinions and defense of them, by the authors and contributors of this blog. I seldom check into this blog and when I do it is always the same few and nothing beneficially for the good of all is offered. Rather, sadist sarcasm designed to assault on an intellectual level in the name of discussion to cover-up the subterfuge that exists.
Let the scrutiny begin!
Rick,
My girlfriends parents NEVER became fluent in English, they almost always spoke Spanish! Guess what, they were legal permanent residents from Columbia, here for decades.
Moon, That is why I use aliens after ILLEGAL when I use it. ILLEGAL aliens are a big problem and it will only get worse if we alow them to stay without following the rules. the ole addage give them an inch and they will take a mile comes to mind.
Elana, That is part of the problem. In the “old days” people that came to this country took pride in learning the language of their new land. There doesn’t seem to be the same level of pride today. I am not saying they have to forget their native tongue, not at all. All I am saying is they should WANT to assimilate to their new surroundings. When I was in the Philippines, I learned some basic Tagalog. I was ot fluent in it to hold a conversation, but understood enough to know what people were saying. I could answer them in English. The point is, people that do not assimiliate to their surroundings are not going to want to follow the rules of their surroundings.
Sorry to hear about your girlfriends Elena. It’s nothing to be proud of.
I want to create an America where they have some incentive to learn English.