So, apparently Bill O’Reilly has “declared war” on the NY Times for its most recent editorial, which by the way, was inspired to do a follow up editorial to clarify their position. The NY Times does NOT advocate “open borders” but instead believes in comprehensive immigration reform while addressing our border security at the same time.
Did you know that VDARE, a pre-eminent anti immigrant group, based their name of the first white child, Virginia Dare, born in the new American colonies? Anyway, I digress for a moment. Well, back to my premise about Bill. You will need to read the piece by the NY Times, “The Nativists are Restless” in order to fully understand his subsequent wrath. I also included a youtube video, which from my perspective, allows the viewer keen insight into some peoples fear about the new “color” of America. For anyone who does not believe that immigration eventually reduces itself to race, take a listen to what Bill O’Reilly’s biggest fear is……the disempowerment of “white Christian men”. Hmm, does the converse of that mean that as a “woman” and a “nonchristian”, I may be “guilty” of usurping his power and instead find myself in the fortunate position of gaining the power O’Reilly imagines he is losing?
Not that we didn’t know the war was already on but now it’s official – again.In a jaw-dropping series of segments on last night’s (2/2/09) O’Reilly Factor, Bill O’Reilly and each of his four guests attacked the New York Times for having the nerve to call O’Reilly and some FOX News regulars “racialist extremists” who are clinging to nativism in the hope that they can use illegal immigration as a wedge issue. A steady stream of right-wing pundits go on FOX and call liberals treasonous and worse. But on FOX, evidently, slurs are OK so long as you’re a Republican dishing them out. If you’re a Republican on the receiving end, it’s time for war. And that’s exactly what O’Reilly pledged repeatedly last night, with a unanimous chorus of support from each of the four guests involved. One of them, Jim Pinkerton, made the astounding statement that he was not involved in the Willie Horton campaign ads. There has been a lot of reporting otherwise. With video.
The first of three segments on the subject began with O’Reilly saying that the reason the Times favors amnesty for immigrants is “primarily” because it’s “a way to gain political power.” It was a charge he’d repeat several time that night without offering any evidence to support it.
Rick as long as we continue to offer information in multiple language, there will never be an incentive to learn English.
Medic and Rick,
What immigration world do you live in? 🙂
So, le me “esplain”, as Ricky Ricardo would say. Historically immigration and language acquisition goes something like this…..parents emmigrate, oftentimes, as adults, have difficulty learning English, their children, ALWAYS learn English, often times helping the parents with translation. Don’t get me wrong, I believe learning English is important, but to put down “this” generation of immigrants, like they are any different from the previous waves of immigrants is simply incorrect.
I think a great deal of our problems right now come from the fat cats rather than the immigrants, both legal and illegal.
I think Medic and Rick (welcome back Medic, glad you stopped by) both have some overly romanticized ideas about immigrants of yesteryear. Yes, I probably read the same BS textbooks you all did. From what I have read recently, many of them were a rather motley crew who eeked out livings doing things that ordinary Americans didn’t want to do. Many didn’t learn English and they kept to the old ways. They were American when it suited them. They packed in houses 2-3 families deep. Relatives took care of relatives and other people from their communities from the old country.
Industries also lobbied let in bunches of immigrants from various countries depending on the needs of business. The coal mining industry was forged by Eastern European and Italian immigrants. The Chinese helped build the railroads, sometimes not by choice. The industrial revolution paved the way for yet other groups of people.
People here were also not particularly nice to them. They had the attitude of us vs them. I have watched a lot of cable tv on the immigrant condition and I have walked away with the impression that things really haven’t changed all that much in hundreds of years.
I get incredibly tired of hearing over and over again about Mexicans fixing their own country. Would someone tell me how they propose for them to do that? Think back to our colonial revolt. Who did the overturning? I await the solution.
Rick, btw, you are really raising the bar there, making everyone who drives be a citizen.
OK Elena, I will give you the fact that the children SHOULD always learn English. There should also be a desire in the adult population to learn it as well. Yes, it will be slower to come to them, but they should at least make an effort. When I am in line to order my food and the people in front of me order in spanish after speaking to their children in English, what does that say? Shouldn’t they use English as much as possible so they can hone their skills? I am curious as to whether or not the children of today’s ILLEAGAL aliens are in fact learning English like those children of the “old days”.
And so that’s your rationale for taking in millions of uneducated poor and sticking the American middle class with the bill for their health care and education, and reducing wages and opportunity for our own citizens, and making a mockery of the notion that our country engages in lawfulness and fairness? Because their children might be able to compete with our middle-class citizens instead of just our lower-class citizens?
(waves to Moon) I will hang as long as things don’t fall too far left here (c;
I agree it is businesses that are causing a great deal of these issues by employing unverified workers. I had to show my birth certificate and my drivers license to get my new job. The new I-9 standards made me do this. How can people still get away with not showing their birth certificate when they fill out their I-9’s?
I know of a couple ILLEGAL aliens working at Rugged Warehouse. When their employer came to them and said the paperwork they submitted wasn’t up to par, they ent out and got different paperwork to satisfy the employer. Seems to me that is wrong. They were recently involved in a car accident, yet they were not taken into custody. They have admitted they are in the country ILLEGALLY, yet they still walk around as if they belong here. That is what really aggravates me, the thumbing of the rules and law when it suits them. BTW, these folks are not Mexicans. They do not have the market cornered on the ILLEGAL alien status.
Elena, funny, we are both saying the same thing and we didn’t call each other. Must be that telepathy again.
EVERYONE thinks learning English is important, including many people who will never set foot on the shores of the United States. Many immigrants come here not particularly well-versed in their own written language. People who are successful in the old country usually don’t emigrate. Most people leave all their roots behind to find another life, a better life. This included our own westward movement for the most part.
In the past, people did not learn English, at least not the first generation. How about cities like Philadelphia, NYC, Wilmington, and many other cities speckling the east coast? They have their own little sections of town. If you go today you can hear different languages and strong accents. As long as there is one other person to talk to in your native tongue, you will speak it.
I just hate this Eutopian, sanitized version of the huddled masses all wanting to do the right thing. No they didn’t. They wanted a better life and to get away from whatever it was that had its foot on their heads.
First generation: Italian. 2nd generation: American -Italians 3rd generation: Italian -Americans 4th generation: Americans
Amen, Moon-howler! And now that houses have become more affordable, mortgage money and construction jobs have dried up – getting us back to the same place – affordability.
I’m convinced that the majority of adults don’t learn new languages easily, particularly languages they haven’t been exposed to as children. Most of us probably get along as Medic mentioned – we know a tourist’s smattering of words.
As for Bill O’Reilly, in mentioning “white Christian men” he left off another important descriptive adjective- “Southern”. The South has produced the base of political power in this country in recent decades. That too is changing.
Medic, I am going to agree with you. Everyone should have to go by the same rules. I don’t think we can cherry pick who we want to be for the day, unless of course we are blogging. 😉
I am not sure people should be hauled away for being in a wreck. I haven’t made up my mind on that one. Drunk driving, of course. Other lesser things….probably not. I don’t like the fact that we have people driving without a license, for whatever reason. I would rather have a 2-3 tiered licensing system than what we have now. I want people insured properly and I want people to have passed some sort of test to be on the road.
Amen to your post at 13:32 M-H!!!
Pray tell, what is the law of nature that mandates that “English” shall be the eternal language of the United States?
NONE
Regional Language is determined by regional demographic…therefore if majority of the population in the U.S. opts for Spanish during the course of evolution in the future, then Spanish we will Speak.
If the constitution has to be translated, so be it, though there is no law of the universe that mandates we will follow it forever.
Culteral evolution is not a choice, it life. The only way out is suicide.
It is time for the chickens to come home to roost!!! We have to punish those on Wall Street that helped cause this mess. We have to punish the banks for making these risky loans. I agree with Obama’s requirement of only 500k for the excutives pay. Nothing wrong with that, put the money back into the company so it can get on its feet and pay off the loan the Gov’t gave to them. Nothing wrong with those institutions tightening the belt.
I want to know why Mexico can have Spanish as its official language and the Philippines can have Tagalog as its official language yet the US can not have English as its official language. Why is there a double standard? I would think everyone would be demanding to have english as an official language so everyone is on the same page conversationally.
I disagree with your comment rod. English should always be the official language of the US. It was set forth by the founding fathers when they drafted the Constitution. If you can not learn English, go back to your own country.
Cultural evolution will only be a way of life if we allow the current culture to be eroded by not following it as we have over the last 200+ years. I am personally not ready for the US to become a third world country. I think once we take the first step down the path of allowing the culture to be changed, we will not be able to get it back.
I am still confused as to why people do not assimiliate to their surroundings. If they want this country to be like their old one, then why not stay in the old one?
Medic, why would becoming a multi-cultural, multi-lingual country cause the U.S. to become a third-world country? What is it about this culture that we will not be able to get back? What do you mean by a “third-world country” anyway? You’re making vague, fearful assertions for which I don’t see the cause/effect relationship.
It’s the accepting in of so many unassimilated poor that DOES make parts of America into third-world countries. My own neighborhood was teetering in that direction until recently. Maybe you’d feel it if you woke up one morning and realized someone had showered on your lawn, and then tried to siphon gas from your car.
Folks, what is happening here on this blog happens on almost every blog. When you continue to talk past someone rather than talk with them, nothing gets done. There are some real problems caused by unauthorized immigration (I would normally say illegal but that seems to rub people the wrong way.) Unauthorized is still against US law.
But we have many people who are fearful for a lot of reasons. We have other people who are angry for some of the same and other reasons. We have large segments that look at this on the personal level and imagine that if they were in the same situation as people who leave their home to save their family. One has to recognize that these are the positions that people have.
But instead of understanding the fears, angers, and accommodations, we all stick to our guns and talk past the other as though no one’s opinion than one’s own is the right one. There are gradations if people listened to each other rather than trying to stake an opinion all of the time.
So one might say to the people who live next to flophouses (regardless of status of the occupants) that they understand their fear and anger or at least would like to understand it more. Then and only then will progress be made because I would like to think that there are different options available if people dropped their opinion and tried to see if there is a legitimate way to solve the flophouse issue and the fears that that may have.
You have the anger about people “jumped the line.” The sense of righteousness is one that I share and doing nothing about dealing with the people here is also not attractive to me. So find the appropriate penalty between you that may not solve it 100% but at least deals with the issue.
I used to live in southern california, next to what was called the barrio. I appreciated the extra richness that another culture ADDS to ours. But there are many people who see people who do not embrace our culture as being people who can add to our culture. But that is the fault of the immigrant in some ways by acting like they won’t change. The point is that unless people stop talking past one another, the real problems and real solutions are impossible. And the only way to break the wall is to honestly try to understand someone’s viewpoint and be willing to share your own when asked.
By the way, my grandparents on one side were italian immigrants in New England. When I was a young teenager (many moons ago), I visited with my dad to his brothers and sisters. When he walked in, everyone spoke italian to each other (but me). I said to my dad, “I never knew you spoke italian.” He replied, “how do you think we communicated when we were young with my parents–who eventually learned sufficient english?” I told him that I was disappointed that I never was taught italian and his answer was that we are americans and keeping the language was just a short term expediency.
I know this is long but I just felt that sometimes I just have to speak up about communicating and not just talking to or past someone.
Firedancer,
I was stationed in the Philippines for 18 months. I know what a third world contry looks like and how it operates.
The problem isn’t multi-ligual or multi-cultural, it is with the lack of assimilation to the current culture and the way things are done in the US today.
Without a stand for the way America is today, we will loose the values and the reason to live here. If we become Mexico, would you want to live here? Honestly? I wouldn’t. If we do not curtail the lack of respect for the current culture then we will be like Mexico and other third world countries. it isn’t readily apparent right now, but everyday a little piece erodes and we do not miss it until the entire beach is gone. We have to start building support structures ( ie brder fence) now to prevent the erosion of our culture and way of life.
As I said, right now, it doesn’t seem like a big deal, but just like putting pennies in a jar, it all adds up over time.
PW resident,
I have no quarrel with other cultures ADDING to the one we have, but like you stated, they have to be willing to ASSIMILATE to their surroundings, not say it is the Mexican way or no way, or the Irish way or no way or the Indian way or no way. We are not African-Americans, Mexican-Americans or Irish-Americans, we are Americans ONLY. Once we get past this need to be self important by stating our culture ahead of American, we will be able to solve many of the problems we have.
I do have a feeling that those who have jumped the line have a sense of enttlement to stay here, while others follwoing the rules may not get to come over this year. Just because you can walk or get here by boat doesn’t mean you have the right to stay.
If we allow these people to stay, where is the incentive for others to follow the rules and enter the proper way? We have to deport all that are here illegally and make them follow the process. If we do not, we are saying, “Hey, those of you that are following the rules, too bad so sad.”
Woops, “But there are many people who see people who do not embrace our culture as being people who can add to our culture.” should say “who cannot add to our culture.”
On the same thought, people should not be lead to believe that it is any more than a addition and certainly not a replacement. But when there is an apparent unwillingness to use our cultures, that is exactly the message being sent by immigrants (authorized or not).
Medic, I noticed that I had not completed my thought. I was posting the addition just when you were.
A PW County Resident,
Thanks for your comments. Your observations and suggestions are very eloquently written and I hope we all take them to heart.
PW Resident, We are on the same page (c; I agree, I have no quarrel and if they ADD that is fine, but as you stated, it can not seem like they are trying to replace it!!
Thank you for you very eloquent post, 15:09, PW County Resident.
Medic, I don’t think any of those who help our country towards the brink of economic disaster will ever have to pay, I am sorry to say. Mirdoff still walks the streets. How many lives did he destroy?
Welcome back PW Resident. Thanks for you contribution.
I think we differ from many blogs in that we are being civil to each other, even though some of us are definitely disagreeing with each other.
Rod, good to see you again. I think it is important for Americans and those living in America to learn English. I accept that many adults and older people aren’t going to. However, the children will. Knowling enough English to get by is just part of American Empowerment. Countries that are multilingual have some inherent problems, even Canada.
As soon as O’Reilly declares that “I am part of the White Christian Male Power Structure,” everything that comes out of his mouth is ONE MAN’s worthless rants. The majority of folks who oppose the willful disregard of our nation’s laws do not consider ourselves “part of the power structure.” But y’all will think you’ve found this sinister motivation behind all those who would oppose you. As I said before, this megalomaniac represents us like Mackie represents you. I don’t wish to offend, but I see another blogger whose video shown on this blog exposed a delusional self-importance is around. He doesn’t speak for us, either.
Medic, you stated:
You completely missed my point, which was that Rick Bentley labeled his Spanish-speaking neighbors as “illegals” without qualification. In other words, he could not prove whether or not his neighbors were in the country illegally. Therefore, by mere virtue of the fact that his loud neighbors spoke Spanish and appeared Latino, he labeled them as “illegals” as a disparagement. And therein is the bigotry. Which is rooted in fear.
Medic, you asked:
What realistic and reasonable alternative do you recommend?
Moon-howler, you are right. It is also, if not ultimately, an issue of class friction (and conflict).
Slowpoke, You know, I think what you just said was very fair.
Robb, I lived near where you grew up for a very brief period of time when I was a kid. Ironia, NJ. It was heavily Puerto Rican over in Dover back then. I wonder if they were called ‘illegals’ then? I was a kid so I guess I wasn’t privy to that. I went to Randolph Township School and there were 2 black children going to school there.
Moon-Howler,
And don’t tell anyone I said this, but Greg doesn’t represent us all, either. I am not a member of HSM, but I do happen to agree with their stance on one issue. Although it never seemed to difficult to me, I suppose there is something about speaking in public or on TV that brings out the gaffe (or, maybe the unfortunate truth) in many people. I hear really unfortunate things come out of the mouths of folks on both sides of this issue. I don’t know what is worse, that O’Reilly believes in the “White Christian Power Structure” in America, or that he’s a part of it. Both thoughts are ridiculous.
Moon-Howler,
In fact, Mr. Madoff is NOT walking the streets. You haven’t LIVED until you hear him whine about how bored he is trapped in his multi-million dollar penthouse. I was trying hard to remember which level of Hell Dante would have put him in.
“Rick Bentley labeled his Spanish-speaking neighbors as “illegals” without qualification. ”
I’ll bet my bottom dollar that some if not all of them were illegal.
“In other words, he could not prove whether or not his neighbors were in the country illegally.”
I can’t prove it. Our Federal Government could, or our State or local government could. But they are in collusion against doing so.
“Therefore, by mere virtue of the fact that his loud neighbors spoke Spanish and appeared Latino, he labeled them as “illegals” as a disparagement. ”
I try to use “illegal aliens” usually … I’m not trying to dehumanize anyone … but you caught me, I did say that above. I will try not to use “illegal” as a noun, I accept that it’s not polite.
“And therein is the bigotry. Which is rooted in fear.”
Yes to the fear part. Fear of my neighborhood turning into a ghetto, where the residents can’t pay for the services consumed. As well as fear of my neighborhood being unsafe. What is this “bigotry” against? I’m bigoted against illegal aliens? Or against the whole phenomenon of illegal immigration? I accept the latter.
Rick, I haven’t been back since this morning, so I could not respond. You wrote:
“White men can’t be angry? Non-whites and women are supposed to have a corner on that market?
I didn’t suggest “physical abuse”. I meany discomfort as in keeping people in cells long enough that they couldn’t earn money, long enough that it impacts their bottom line.”
Could you possibly show me where I said white men can’t be angry? What I was suggesting to you is that you claim a class analysis but betray it instantly with your white male victimization business.
In terms of physical abuse, can you spell “disingenuous”? You know very well you have suggested in the past physical abuse, including beating and branding illegal immigrants among other violence. If you have forgotten that post and others, I am sure the rest of us haven’t. I am sure I could find it again. So when you said “discomfort” in exactly the same context of deportation it seemed you might be repeating those proposals.
Slowpoke, the Eighth Circle!
Medic, thanks for your response at 15:11. But you didn’t answer exactly what I’m trying to understand. You wrote:
“We have to start building support structures ( ie brder fence) now to prevent the erosion of our culture and way of life.”
My question is, what do you and others mean exactly by our culture and way of life that is being destroyed? I don’t understand the meaning behind those words, beyond that we are a multilingual, multicultural country. Yes, all white enclaves now have people of color, but so what? What do you mean exactly that we will be a third world country, in what way?
You can go into parts of DC, or take the train to NY passing through Baltimore and Philadelphia, and see incredible poverty that looks third world. How do those lives fit into the “culture and way of life” that you want to preserve?
I’m not saying this in a sarcastic tone. I’m just asking for clarification on the meaning behind your words. If you don’t mean preserving the “white male Christian power structure”, then please give examples of what you do mean.
I guess Rick perhaps answered in the last paragraph above at 20:45…fear of a neighborhood ghetto, etc. So is it just the way of life of your particular neighborhood, or of the country as a whole? Because as I just said, there are plenty of inner city neighborhoods in this country that don’t fit your “way of life”.
And we go round and round in circles like dogs chasing their tails, and we totally miss the truth about the real issues.
First, I want to address the topic of this blog..since Elena seems to be the only blogger who actively searches for isolated examples of “racism” committed by “whites” against others, specifically “hatred” and “anger” against Hispanics (and very few if any other examples of hatred toward other races, genders, religions or ethnicities), as I go back and review her articles.
In her mind, if she can find a few examples of this hatred, she can condemn ALL members of the racial, ethnic group she is targeting as “hateful racists”.
SHE IS RIGHT in this ONE Point however, to point out that “white male anger” is destructive when it is framed as “white male anger”. AND I SAY TO ALL OF YOU OVER AND OVER, Hatred needs to be stopped when it is hatred toward anyone because of race, gender, religion, or ethnicity.
I HAVE SAID THIS OVER and OVER and it is rarely heard or understood because you keep making the same issue mistakes over and over.
BUT, as so many people do continue to follow thier beliefs and passions, Elena USUALLY fails to find and locate equally destructive examples framed as “hispanic/black/asian/jewish/arabic/muslim/female ANGER against “whites” especially when the hatred is directed at white males for being “white males” and “not individuals”. SO ELENA is EQUALLY prejudiced when she attacks ANY GENDER, RACE, RELIGION or ETHNICITY for it’s GENDER, RACIAL, RELIGIOUS or ETHNIC attempts at SELF protection.
YOU CANNOT DO THIS ON ANY LEVEL and NOT BE WRONG. So ALL of you are wrong if who continue to debate this way!
Here is what you need to do and understand as the real issues instead:
“I guess Rick perhaps answered in the last paragraph above at 20:45…fear of a neighborhood ghetto, etc. So is it just the way of life of your particular neighborhood, or of the country as a whole? Because as I just said, there are plenty of inner city neighborhoods in this country that don’t fit your “way of life”. ”
My neighborhood, and other areas too. Yes there are ghettos already. And our politicians swear they want to help to life the people up in them, and improve standard of living. But letting in tens of millions of unassimilated poor is incompatible with this. It cannot be denied that it will result in worse health care, lower wages, less available jobs, worse schools, and less resources available for poor Americans.
You need to attack ONLY “individual” behavior. If the “individual” is wrong caondem the individual. BUT You cannot imply or advocate, or insinuate of even “hint” that what one person “foolishly” represents they represent an entire race, religion, gender or ethnic group on the STATEMENTS of just that one person. Even worse is to then generalize that concept to arrive at the following conclusion.
“For anyone who does not believe that immigration eventually reduces itself to race, take a listen to what Bill O’Reilly’s biggest fear is……the disempowerment of “white Christian men”.
Immigration is not about “Race” Elena, it is about “illegality” and “a declining economy, and declining wealth and stability of neighborhoods”
If you believe “immigration is about “race, then you are as big of a bigot as the person you accuse of bigotry.
Let me explain why it is not about “race” and why it IS about “illegality” and the affects on neighborhoods caused by “illegality”.
“you claim a class analysis but betray it instantly with your white male victimization business.”
I don’t know offhand what you’re referring to. I don’t think white males are especially victimized. But I think that they are and should be entitled to express what anger they feel.
“In terms of physical abuse, can you spell “disingenuous”? You know very well you have suggested in the past physical abuse, including beating and branding illegal immigrants among other violence.”
I remenber saying SOMETHING like that to get a reaction, but I think to be fair I did not advocate serious physical violence. I don’t remember advocating branding, that doesn’t sound like me.
Slow, I won’t tell a soul. And I did see Mirdoff walking to his penthouse. I was wondering when someone was going to pop him off. It enrages me that he can even see the light of day. He is still arrogant.
First and foremost, NO-ONE WAS ANGRY about “immigration” 25 years ago, until MASSIVE NUMBERS of people started to “ILLEGALLY” cross borders. No-one that I know of 25 years ago or even 10 years ago was upset about “legal” immigrants coming into the country within “legal” quotas, on “legal” visas, on “legal” work visa’s and on “legal” student visas.
They were not upset or angry at any race, religion, gender, or ethnicity (until it became advantaged by an 8A law).
When politicians began to give “advantages” and special preferences to people based on their “gender, race, religion and ethnicity” THAT’s when people became ANGRY, because such illegal policies and laws oppress and harm ANYONE not in these protected “classes”.
People NOT in these protected legal classes were FURIOUS that they as “individuals” did not get treated the same under the LAW. They were furious also that such laws create a “CLASS” social and political system, which then leads to “class” struggle, divided along the lines of race, gender, religious and ethnic “class” lines. Such “classes” and class preferences are “illegal” according to the US Supreme court and the US constition. BUT “political” activist representing these “groups” ignored the law and pressed congress (specifically members of those same racial, gender, religious and ethnic groups” to continue to pass law and policy that benefited only those favored classes, regardless of what the LAW SAID.
So in 1984 those “classes” and thier political pundits and ethnic-centric congressmen, pressed President Regan in 1984, to sign the first amnesty bill to “legalize” ALL “illegal” aliens, making instant citizens of a whole “class” of people with discriminatory, and ethnic-centric ethics who entered the political infrastructure representing the best interests of only their own race, gender, religion or ethnicity.
THIS really pissed off ANYONE who was not a member of those “preferred and protected classes”, and any FOOL can see that it is not FAIR to ALL INDIVIDUALS the same, pursuing the same wealth, freedom, political equity and political representation as stated in the US Constitution “ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL”.
We’ll people started to become increasingly angry because political activists were LYING, and demonstrating by thier gender, racial, religious and ethnic group political activists efforts that “all men were not being treated equal”. Thus the “DIVERSITY BATTLE waged in the late 1980s and 1990s as a way to get around the previous failures of racial and ethic group “numbers balancing”.
THIS IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG….
and NOW the issues are focused on the destructive effects of “illegal” immigration as Wrong, wrong wrong for the SAME ethnic group advocacy and racial preference political activity, primarily targeting whites as the only “class” n ot to be equitably treated under the law, until the “numbers of ALL other races were equally politically balanced.
This is the crap that people are angry about when they target the “economic” and political effects of rampant “illegal” immigration.
I’ll tell you why “illegal” immigration is destructive, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE OR WITH “IMMIGRATION”, is has to do with DECAY in WEALTH, DECAY IN NEIGHBORHOODS, WORLD ECONOMIC MELTDOWN, and CRIMINALIZATION of the US political INFRASTRUCTURE.
Here is why “illegal” immigration MUST be stopped in order to be fair and EQUITABLE under the LAW to 306 million Americans destroyed by 12 million or more current “illegals”, and almost 40 million formerly “illegal” immigrants over the past 25 years.
Moon-howler:
I know Ironia quite well. It’s between Chester and Randolph. In fact my congregation when I was a Jehovah’s Witness was the Randolph Kingdom Hall on Dover Chester Road near the intersection of Sussex Turnpike, adjacent to Ironia. Ironia was actually one of my most frequently visited areas when going door to door.
I went to Dover High School until my father died in 1988. About a third of the kids were Puerto Rican, a third black, and a third white.
Dover’s population is now more than half Puerto Rican. It’s a good community with decent folks who have created a pretty cool micro-culture. Great restaurants too.
Interestingly, a friend of mine is Pastor Danny Martinez of the United Methodist Church on Blackwell Street in Dover. He’s a huge advocate for human justice and the rights of migrants. But when I was preparing my anti-illegal immigration rally in 2007, Danny and I were adversaries. And our communications were usually very spirited, each of us trying to convince the other of the rightness of our positions.
I’m glad we reconciled. I’ve learned a great deal from him.
Michael, people were angry over Cubans coming here and they were angry over the boat people. I don’t know why necessarily but I sure do know a lot of people who were up in arms.
Illegal immigrants are “ILLEGAL” To treat them otherwise is to politically give them preferential treatment, especially when the congressmen and congressswomen giving this preferential treatment are MEMBERS of those same “classes” as the “illegals” they represent themselves to politically.
“Illegal” immigrants cause increased poverty in any neighborhood they move into. You cannot tell who is illegal and who is not legal, BUT you can see the EFFECTS and decline in neighborhood wealth, increase in crime, increase in lawlessness, increase in numbers, increase in crowded living conditions in wealthy neighborhoods that causes those neighbohoods to lose their economic value to others looking for single family homes, not “converted rental properties housing collaborative poor families”, increase in trash, increase in transportation congestion, decay of ethics and morality, and general decay in the landscape value of neighborhoods as more and more “illegals” flood “illegally” into the country.
You don’t have to be a genius to see the correlation and to realize that the entire economic meltdown of our nation was a direct consequence of 25 years of “ignored” illegal immigration.
Then there is the issue of job replacement. Business owners are “importing or in-sourcing” labor and outsourcing labor” and are using both “illegal” immigration and “legal” H1b’s to replace top management (except the very top that has become 28% richer since 2006), and replacing top skill level “wealth producing” jobs with workers who are willing to work for far less wages from around the world. This is leading to economic collapse of the US economy, and declining wealth in neighborhoods nation-wide.
Elena, and others, I applaude you for attacking hatred, but if you ignore the effects of “illegal” immigration because you believe that trying to stop it is a form of “racial hatred” you are a bunch of idiots, and we will ALL be out of work or working for wages 50% less than we have today in less than two years. IF YOU DO NOTHING ABOUT “ILLEGAL” IMMIGRATION, and allow “illegal” immigration to continue to increase the population of “low skilled” workers, and increase the nmbers of people of poverty in the US while simultaneously DECREASING the NUMBER of wealth creating jobs, with less skilled workers and lower wage workers….
It will be your worst nightmare…so ponder it.
Moonhowler, people are angry at ANY large influx of people who cause the neighborhood wealth to decline and poverty to increase in their neighborhoods. IT doesn’t MATTER WHAT RACE, GENDER, RELIGION or ETHNICITY THEY BELONG TO. AND THAT IS MY POINT. It only matters that they are “illegal” when they enter “illegally” and that they “legal or not” cause a decline in neighborhood stability and neighborhood wealth.
michael,
Straight off the influx of people caused an increase in demand for homes thereby causing home prices to increase. Did people use the equity in their homes to send a child off to college? or to start a new business? or pay off high interest credit cards with home equity loans? So, the notion that they(the illegals) brought poverty with them is absurd. Then go look at the home builders bottom lines among the Fortune 500 and try explaining again what poverty they brought.
Rick, are you serious? You not only advocated branding with irons, but you advocated it more than once along with waterboarding and slapping. It took me maybe a minute to find the series of posts, and yes you defended all your proposals to people who objected to them and indicated you were serious. I remembered the context for this series of posts (though you have had others) because it was that thread about the illegal immigrant who was tied down as she went through childbirth. So finding it was no problem. You were ok with the tying down too. It was hard for me to forget something so vivid since, well, I guess I am not used to someone advocating branding of human beings in 21st century America.
People here have sympathized with the bad situation you had with your neighbors. I know I have done so. I also have appreciated MANY of your statements elsewhere as BothParties etc., including the fact that you were the only person to call out that person recently who made that racist comment about Obama (collards, watermelon etc.) if you recall. But you have advocated illegal and extreme treatment of illegal aliens (no distinctions made of age or sex either) during deportation as a method of deterring them. At least that is how you explained it. People have an infinite capacity for self deception, but in this case it sounds *exactly* like you because it was you. I would not be calling you out on this had you not explicitly suggested above that you would not advocate such things.
Never try to slip something past Leila, she will catch you each and every time. I know this, Rick, because she has caught me. 😉 (and I have thanked her many times for doing so)
Leila, Rick has a bad boy shock jock side. I guess we were seeing it yesterday. I have noticed that we get to see the side that Rick things will shock the most people. For instance, I have read Rick’s diatribe on people who fear gays. Laughed like hell as a matter of fact…but I didn’t read it here. And for that, I am sorry. Come on Rick, how about sharing some of the good talent here.
“You not only advocated branding with irons, but you advocated it more than once along with waterboarding and slapping.”
If I said that about branding, I don’t feel that way and I take it back. I must have been extra angry that day. No I wouldn’t advocate branding.
Michael,
Of all people, I would have thought that you would have been on your high horse about Bill O’Reilly, singling out “white christian males” and their hold on power as one of your usual diatribes about gender and religious classifications. So now I see, as YOU are probably a white christian male, THAT particular classification does not appear to offend you. Hmmm, very interesting.
Micahel, please stop putting words in my mouth. I believe in legal immigration, our current system is broken, but just because you hear alot of people speaking spanish, it does not constitue an “invasion”. Once again, it takes a modicum of research to see the exact same fears replicated today throughout the American journey of population growth.
Michael,
The people who live in ghettos are overpopulated in their apartments, overwhelmed with crime, graffiti, etc. What is your solution for that issue? Do you avocate deporting those people?