So, apparently Bill O’Reilly has “declared war” on the NY Times for its most recent editorial, which by the way, was inspired to do a follow up editorial to clarify their position. The NY Times does NOT advocate “open borders” but instead believes in comprehensive immigration reform while addressing our border security at the same time.
Did you know that VDARE, a pre-eminent anti immigrant group, based their name of the first white child, Virginia Dare, born in the new American colonies? Anyway, I digress for a moment. Well, back to my premise about Bill. You will need to read the piece by the NY Times, “The Nativists are Restless” in order to fully understand his subsequent wrath. I also included a youtube video, which from my perspective, allows the viewer keen insight into some peoples fear about the new “color” of America. For anyone who does not believe that immigration eventually reduces itself to race, take a listen to what Bill O’Reilly’s biggest fear is……the disempowerment of “white Christian men”. Hmm, does the converse of that mean that as a “woman” and a “nonchristian”, I may be “guilty” of usurping his power and instead find myself in the fortunate position of gaining the power O’Reilly imagines he is losing?
Not that we didn’t know the war was already on but now it’s official – again.In a jaw-dropping series of segments on last night’s (2/2/09) O’Reilly Factor, Bill O’Reilly and each of his four guests attacked the New York Times for having the nerve to call O’Reilly and some FOX News regulars “racialist extremists” who are clinging to nativism in the hope that they can use illegal immigration as a wedge issue. A steady stream of right-wing pundits go on FOX and call liberals treasonous and worse. But on FOX, evidently, slurs are OK so long as you’re a Republican dishing them out. If you’re a Republican on the receiving end, it’s time for war. And that’s exactly what O’Reilly pledged repeatedly last night, with a unanimous chorus of support from each of the four guests involved. One of them, Jim Pinkerton, made the astounding statement that he was not involved in the Willie Horton campaign ads. There has been a lot of reporting otherwise. With video.
The first of three segments on the subject began with O’Reilly saying that the reason the Times favors amnesty for immigrants is “primarily” because it’s “a way to gain political power.” It was a charge he’d repeat several time that night without offering any evidence to support it.
Rick, so you take back branding, but hitting them and waterboarding are ok? Sigh. And there is no “if” only a big glossy “when.” Oh well.
I’m still stuck on the question of our culture, way of life and power structure, as designated by our founding fathers, that is being “destroyed”. A few years ago I visited the Pine Ridge Indian reservation in South Dakota. where I was on the verge of tears witnessing first hand what history has wrought there in the quest to create our way of life. I’m proud of the democracy and freedom we have established, but please no sanctimonious arguments about the holiness of “our culture”.
Yes, waterboarding would be ok with me. But not hitting.
Elena, what is YOUR solution to ghetto poverty? To let tens more millions cram in, reduce wages, and move towards a caste society? while all the while robber barons run Central and South America.
Pine Ridge is the scene of the ghost dancer massacre isn’t it? Another horrible atrocity where one culture stomps on the heads of another. I agree Firedancer. Very sad. And no holiness or righteousness for getting where we are today.
It was the site of the Wounded Knee massacre, where on December 29, 1890 over 300 men, women and children were killed by the United States 7th Cavalry. The site is a windswept field today.
I think we are talking about the same massacre, I am just calling it the Ghost Dancer Massacre which is not its official name. I think that is what started it though.
Yup. Here it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance
Did you see the PBS special The West? There was quite a bit about The Ghost Dance and Wounded Knee in there. Here is a description I found from the series:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/eight/gddescrp.htm
Please forgive Firedancer and me…we go off on tangents about this type of stuff.
Anyone who argues waterboarding is not torture is clearly indoctrinated beyond retrieval.
Rick,
Do you know who Sargent Shriver is? There is a great documentary that PBS did on his intiative to fight poverty. It was about empowering those who seemed “trapped” in their poor existence. It was actually having demonstrating positive outocomes, but then LBJ had to make a choice, fund vietnam or fund the fight on poverty. As we all know, for a decade, were were mired in Vietnam.
cor:take out “having” or change demonstrating to demonstrative 🙂
Is there ever a reason for torture?
In response to Firedancer, 4. February 2009, 21:10;
It has nothing to do with white, black or brown. I am speaking specifically to the cultrue change that is happening by not following the rule of law. Accepting the fact that people have broken the law and it is ok for them to be here. Pushing their culture as the primary culture and not as an addition to the one we have already. Basically tosing their ingredients into the melting pot after they remove most of the others.
The poverty doesn’t fit into the culture I want to preserve. I want to prevent any further decay of the culture and uplift it to the level it was before amnesty was an acceptable way of dealing with people that broke the law. I am not interested in just my neighborhood, I am interested in the country as a whole. The contry is sick right now. There is plenty of blame to go around for both sides of the aisle. However, finger pointing is not going to solve the problem and neither is a pork ladden “stimulus bill”. The recent data I heard was a 36% approval of the bill as it stood. People want and need help, but we have to spend wisely right now. What good did the last stimulus bill do? It allowed banks to buy other banks. No money was put back into the economy. People lost jobs because their bank was puchased by a bigger one.
My whole point is, at this time, we can not afford to have 12-30 million people added to the US without them being able to support themselves. The problem with adding most, not all, but most of these people, is they are not as well educated to be able to obtain jobs that would allow them to live in conditions that are not at the poverty level. Not only will they not be able to obtain these jobs, they are just not there to be had. Anyone with a job today needs to be very thankful.
Ok, Medic. I disagree that the new immigrants are pushing their culture as the primary culture. Everyone wants and wishes they could learn English, and everyone understands that is the only way to get ahead. But we’ve been round that before. I just wonder about people wringing their hands about our “culture” going down the tubes, if that’s a euphemism for something else.
But I do agree with you that the last stimulus bill didn’t help, but not being an economist, I have no idea how to fix the economy, and I’m glad I’m not the one deciding that.
And I do agree that anyone with a job today needs to be very thankful. I am. And the bad economy just might help your wish come true that the immigrant population will decrease. I know that people are leaving.
Moon-howler, thanks for the links. I never, ever tire of reading about Native American history and I have quite a few books of photographs taken in the late 1800s, early 1900s. The saga of the ghost dance is so sad, a people trying to cling to their last hope of bringing back their way of life, only to succumb to that culture that today’s immigrants are hell bent on destroying. Yeah, right.
Vietnam’s long since over. Our government pours money into trying to improve inner-city schools. if there were a solution forward to reduce poverty I think most people would take that solution. But instead both parties collude to import tens of millins more unassimilated poor, which can only inflame poverty. Instead of a war on poverty, we have a war on working wages and a war on dignity for our poor.
Vietnam’s long since over. Our government pours money into trying to improve inner-city schools. if there were a solution forward to reduce poverty I think most people would take that solution. But instead both parties collude to import tens of millins more unassimilated poor, which can only inflame poverty. Instead of a war on poverty, we have a war on working wages and a war on dignity for our poor.
Elena, possibly off topic but speaking of that war on poverty, would you agree or disagree with this statement by Thomas Sowell :
“The black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and discrimination, began rapidly disintegrating in the liberal welfare state that subsidized unwed pregnancy and changed welfare from an emergency rescue to a way of life.”
Who’s Thomas Sowell, and what is his perspective?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell
Rick,
I don’t know much about Thomas Sowell, just did a brief reading of some articles he wrote. Once again, that brings me back to Sarge Shriver. Did you read anything about his initiative to fight poverty? The intent was to empower people to control their own destiny.
Firedancer,
I, too, visited the Pine Ridge Indian reservation in South Dakota a few years ago. I also visited the Mandan Reservation in North Dakota. Of course, there are no more Mandan Indians. It was just a re-creation of a villiage. I was also on the verge of tears seeing what history has wrought there in the quest to create our way of life. I am also proud of our democracy and freedom but it came with a very, very high price.
My girlfriend is a Lakota Sioux and lives on the Santee Reservation in Nebraska. The stories of discrimination against the first Americansare are hard for me to hear. It is a shame. The people who truly own this land should be honored.
Marie, I remember those turn-of-the-century buildings left over from the Agency days, haunting relics from a terrible past. We talked to a lot of people and learned so much about about the discrimination and oppression against the Indians. Another thing is Mount Rushmore, the monstrosity carved into the Black Hills on sacred land seized from the Lakota. We went to the rah-rah patriotic evening light and music show, and afterwards while everyone else was clapping, my husband and I sat there dumbfounded that there was not one mention of the Native Americans on whose land we were sitting. It is an amazing carving, yes, a symbol of our culture, but not something to be entirely proud of.
When the Indian Museum opened on the Smithsonian, I took off from work to attend the parade on the mall, and was overwhelmed by all the Native peoples who participated. It had to have been the largest concentration of Native Americans since pre-Columbus days. It was fabulous.
Every time I hear all the howling over English only and ‘he’s speaking Spanish’ I think of what happened to all those Navajo children in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Every attempt was made to eradicate their native language. Some of the stories I have read about what was done to the children, and how they were seperated from their families just makes me sick.
It is quite arguable that the Navajo language saved this nation’s bacon during the dark days of WWII. That is a debt of gratitude that can never be repaid to the Code Talkers. There have to be very few of them left now, given their ages.
More information: http://www.navajocodetalkers.org/
Firedancer, I refused to buy or wear blackhills gold once I found out that it came from sacred lakota mountains that they got cheated out of. It is beautiful, but not worth it.
Now I do buy and wear turquoise….different story there. Much of the money goes right back to Native Americans.
Elena, I’ve read some about the War on Poverty that Shriver headed under the Johnson Administration. It has been a mixed bag. We’ve all lived through the effects.
Hi Moon-howler! Nothing like keeping a thread going..lol. I agree with you about the howling over English-only without a second thought to the languages English wiped out on this continent…as if God mandated that everyone MUST SPEAK ENGLISH. Everyone wants to speak English but it is not a commandment from the heavens.
I have books about the Indian schools, too, that were created to wipe out all traces of their culture, to make them American. So sad.
We need to take note of what is happening in California today. This is only the beginning. This problem will spread across the nation. Too much welfare and not enough tax payers. How can we absorb more poor people into the system when it is obviously over burdened as it is. CA is just the beginning of what we can expect if we do not get a grip on our situation. The lastest “stimulus” package is not going to solve the issue either. All we ask if for some responsible spending right now. We have to stop just pushing these bills through without being able to see it. The Dems will kill their chances to remain in power if they pass this bill with only 37% approval from the voters. This is nothing more than a bunch of power hungry idiots looking out for themselves instead of the rest of us.
Rick,
It is a “mixed bag” because as soon it was beginning to positive results the funding was stopped and redirected to the war in Vietman.
Medic, I think the first part of your @8:34 comments certain bears some fact. California also has some of the highest taxes in the United States. They are in serious trouble.
I don’t know enough about the stimulus package to know if it is going to work or not. I don’t have any advice for California. These are dangerous times.
Moon,
For the first time I am afraid to be in America. We have a passivist at the helm and it will cost us dearly in the very near future. We have seen what passiveness got us during the Clinto years; the first WTC bombing, the USS Cole (which was a direct act of war) the embassy and the barracks. Nothing was done about those attacks on Americans. Because of that, we endured 9-11. I am confident that we will be attcked in the very near future to test this new administration. Iran is already threatening to launch a long range rocket. They already enrich uranium. Put 2 and 2 together and it is easy to see that they will be bombing us with a nuclear warhead in the future. We live to close to DC not to be directly affected or killed.
California is the highest taxed because they do not have enough tax payers. This is due to the acceptance of ILLEGAL aliens into their communities. They offer no tax payments for under the table cash work. It seems to me that California needs to get a hold of their issue and start setting forth some tough love or they will not be able to continue as a state at all. Of course this is what the Mexicans want. It appears they are succeeding very well.
Moon,
You should ALWAYS educate yourself on any of these large bills that are being put up as “stimulus”. There is so much pork in this bill it would clog your arteries!!! The Dems want bi-partisianship, but they do not want to compromise on one single line in the bill. Then they roll out in front of the cameras and say the Republicans didn’t vote for this. They could not because of the EXTRA spending that was in it. Millions for prostitues being homeless. Millions for a country club clubhouse. Millions for items that will not bring one single job to the economy. Things that should be discussed in other bills not this one. I am willing to bet that if the bill wasn’t so pork laden it would have passed with a majority.
Moon,
Be sure to click the interactive tab.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/05/stimulus/#cnnSTCOther2
Moon,
Also be sure to check the Analysis tab as well.
Why do we have to hurry but for no other reason than to not let people read everything in the bill. If this takes a week or two, nothing will change in that time frame if it is passed. We need immediate results to turn around the market and the economy.
“It is a “mixed bag” because as soon it was beginning to positive results the funding was stopped and redirected to the war in Vietman.”
Are you kidding me?
That was 35-40 years ago and you maintain that naive belief that we’d have a better nation if we poured more into welfare?
Elena I think that you would really benefit from more exposure to conservative thought. I recommend Sowell. In reciprocation, I’ll read about Shriver’s theories and activities.
Moon,
What are your thoughts on the “stimulus” package now that you have had a chance to look it over? Can you now see why it has a 35% voter approval for it?
Lindsay Graham is fighting for us!!! The congress wants this passed quickly so they can move on to other spending measures. I think they were surprised to see ALL of the republicans stay away from it. As they should, too many dollars being spent that would not directly affect the economy today or any other day.
Obama should have written this bill, call the leaders in and said, ok this is what I want to accomplish, you tell me if we can do it. Work it out right there. No need to come out and say the rublicans are not being bi-partisian, if they were allowed some inserts and the Dems removed most of the pork, it would have done just fine. The Dems were not wanting to be bi-partisian or compromise. Republicans said ok you have the votes to pass this and we will not be tied to it when it comes time for the elections next year.
Rick,
You clearly must not have done any research on the intiative. It was the OPPOSITE of welfare. The purpose was to empower the people, most directly affected by their cirucumstances, and take control of their neighborhoods. They were to identify their most important needs, determine what solutions may bring about the best results and move people OFF of public assistance and into self sufficiency. The intiative was community building and empowerment.
By what means?
Rick,
They formed leadership initiatives within their neighborhood blocks, like “block captains” I believe. I really urge you to see the PBS special on Shriver, it is truly insightful, at least that is the way I percieved it.
Elena, 5 Feb
I think Bill O’Reilly is STUPID, and I said so before in previous posts on this issue. I DID point out that he is wrong to see this issue as “white male” whatever. You MISSED that point, since you only read what you want to read out of what I say, rather than pay close attention to what I say.
I am against ANY of these issues being explained in terms of RACE, GENDER, RELGION, OR ETHNICITY.
And you can check my previous POSTS I am VERY OFFENDED WHEN ANYONE CALLS ME A WHITE CHRISTIAN MALE. WHEN YOU DO SO YOU ARE BEING A BIGOT and a RACIST. I HAVE said this MANY TIMES, you just have selective hearing Elena, because you just want to win arguments.
IT IS ONLY about legal and “illegal” every way I look at it.
And yes Alanna, “illegals” throughtout history have always brought poverty with them. You are looking at the wrong indicators of wealth and poverty, and not drawing the truthful cause and effect evidence into your logic about overpopulation creating a demand for housing and driving the price of homes up..
This is a false wealth, and as you saw COLLAPSED INTO GLOBAL ECONOMIC MELTDOWN.
The people who do not pay LOANS are the poorest people who GOT THOSE LOANS, ergo bring more poverty than wealth into our communities.
Cause…effect, cause…effect…instead of false correlations gives you the truth.
Speaking of truth…
Elana where did I say any of the following in MY WORDS for you to claim I said the following as described by YOUR twisted WORDS…
I believe in legal immigration, our current system is broken, but just because you hear alot of people speaking spanish, it does not constitue an “invasion”. Once again, it takes a modicum of research to see the exact same fears replicated today throughout the American journey of population growth.
I don’t remember focusing on ANYONE SPEAKING SPANISH, only you in your bigoted way focus on people speaking spanish.
Our current system is “broken” only to people who want “illegals” to be able to remain here in the country. It is not “broken, because the law alrwady allows “legal” people to come here to the US “legally”. You want people to STAY here “illegally” and then be made instantly “legal”. If you can’t have that the way you want it, YOU claim the “immigration system is broken. So you believe not only in “legal” immigration, as you said, but I SAY your words indicate you ALSO believe in “illegal” immigration and you work VERY HARD to maintain it and allow it to continue in your own use of biased words.
I do not use the term “invasion”. I use the term “overpopulation” or “population bubble” by “illegal” immigrants who do not have the legal right to be here. Removing them reduces the population, scale and scope of POVERTY in America and increases the number of jobs with higher pay and number of wealth creating jobs compared to the population size, which results in community growth, rather than community poverty, decline, and DEPRESSION.
Like I think I said before Elena, your motives and passion for the “people harmed” is mis-guided, and every time you make this a RACIAL or ETHNICITY ISSUE (Like you did with your bigoted, bait setting WHITE MALE comment), I believe you are also a closet racist and bigot in your own belief system toward those ethnicities, genders, religions and ethnicities YOU DON”T LIKE.