Now I’ve heard everything! Letiecq c/o bvbl.net accuses Delegate Marshall of being a supporter of ‘amnesty for illegal aliens’. There’s an old adage about cutting your nose off to spite your face, apparently that’s what has happened here. Marshall introduced a bill that would address the issue of non-citizens being able to vote in elections but it has been labeled ‘amnesty’ by Letiecq and a few other Republicans. So, now, the bill which would have addressed the possibility of non-citizens voting won’t see the light of day for another two years.
Here’s Marshall response to Greg’s attack:
If my bill, HB 2509, really were of benefit to illegal’s registering to vote, please explain why the Democrats you regularly take to task for being soft on illegal aliens, uniformly opposed my bill coming out of Committee.
Right now, under current Virginia law, THERE IS NO PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP REQUIRED AS A CONDITION OF REGISTERING TO VOTE. You just sign a statement that you are a citizen, no proof required! With the defeat of my HB 2509, the law cannot be changed until possibly January 1, 2011, adding even more time without requiring proof of citizenship to vote!
Your explanation about my bill, HB 2509, is incorrect and completely inconsistent with my entire public voting record. Why in the world would I do anything to make it possible for illegal’s to vote in Virginia? You published this false claim without asking me for my explanation, and instead you listened to individuals whom you did not want to identify. I think I am entitled to know who my false accusers are.
Two Republicans (Del. Bill Janis and Del. Tim Hugo) spoke for the first time today on the floor of the House of Delegates, against final passage of my bill, characterizing it as “amnesty for illegal’s.” Bill Janis is an attorney and a member of the House Privileges and Elections Committee which heard this bill and neither he nor anyone else ever raised an illegal amnesty concern. When my bill passed in Committee, some of the Democrats, and all of those whom you would consider “soft” on illegal’s, voted against my bill. All the Republicans voted for it.
The language which Delegates Janis and Hugo objected to was the enactment date of January 1, 2010. The only reason that date was in my bill was because the Voter Registrars of numerous localities, indicated they needed adequate time to adjust their forms and procedures to accommodate the new proof of citizenship and other requirements that would be enacted under my bill and I did not want there to be an excuse to defeat the bill on the grounds that it did not allow time for transition.
But I also trusted that the concerns of Delegates Janis and Hugo regarding the enactment date were genuine, so I agreed both in the Republican Caucus and on the floor of the House of Delegates, to allow a Senate amendment, if possible, because my bill was on third reading and could not be amended in the House.
Bill Janis mischaracterized my private conversation with him. I did not agree that the bill allowed for amnesty. I simply reminded him that several years ago we had to grandfather those who had previously applied for a drivers’ licenses and exempted them from having to provide birth certificates and other documents for a new license. This bill was not considered “amnesty” for illegal’s because it actually strengthened driver’s license requirements for the future. You have to start at some point. IT is NOT Practical to expect all 5 million registered voters to start over again.
After I explained my bill, Tim Hugo and Bill Janis continued to describe my bill as “amnesty,” and debate was quickly cut off and the vote taken. The misinformation caused a stampede of no votes from Republicans, resulting in the defeat of the only measure in the House that had been reported to the House floor that could have established proof of citizenship for voter registration. Current Virginia law has no, I repeat no, proof of citizenship to register to vote!
My bill would have also required the posting in the two most prevalent languages of the locality, on the walls of all 2500+ polling places across the Commonwealth, the parts of the Virginia Constitution which clearly spell out that citizenship is required for voting, and that a violation results in criminal penalties including jail time and a $2500 fine.
To reiterate: My bill required proof of Citizenship as a condition to register to vote by submission of a birth certificate, passport, naturalization papers and other federal documents indicating US citizenship.It also required a government picture ID as a condition of voting, a requirement which is much stronger than present law. It required absentee voters to submit a government ID with a picture to accompany an application for absentee voting. Unfortunately, your readers were not informed of any of this!
I had also sent you my amendment which was successfully added to the House Budget bill indicating that beginning July 1, 2009, Virginia would be required to use E-Verify for all regular prospective employees of the Commonwealth. I had hoped that you would publicize this, but so far I have not seen this posted.
I hope you will let your blog commentators know who gave you the misleading information about my bill because HB 2509 was the ONLY bill from the House of Delegates in this session which could have prevented ILLEGAL aliens from registering to vote. Sadly, for the citizens of Virginia, and the integrity of our voting process, the only bill which placed any roadblock in the way of illegal’s registering to vote is dead because of the actions of certain Delegates and the misinformation that was spread.
Sincerely,
Delegate Bob Marshall
PS You also posted an amendment which I never offered and could only have been obtained by another delegate and passed on to you, because staff has no access to the floor of the House of Delegates where such amendments are kept at the Desk. Who is the secret delegate giving you bad information?
The amendment, which I did not offer but had ready just in case, delayed the effective date of my bill another six months beyond the current fiscal year, because the Director of the Department of Motor Vehicles had sent me a letter claiming my bill had an economic impact of $1.1 million which would have sent the bill back to the Appropriations Committee, clearly an attempt to kill my bill. My bill could not have been killed for lack of money in the current budget if the enactment date was beyond the current fiscal year. After determining that the Director of the DMV had not delivered his letter in his official capacity, there was no need for me to offer this amendment and I withdrew it.
Again, you know me, you know my record. Please check with me if you receive any other rumors about my record.
For the full wording of my bill and its history go to http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?091+sum+HB2509
“The issue is whether the problem of non-citizens attempting to vote is so great that we want to begin a process of forcing the entire American electorate into a new procedure.”
Leila, the “process of forcing the entire American electorate” to provide proof of citizenship at the time of registering to vote is HARDLY a new procedure. In fact, it is the procedure that was required prior to “Motor Voter”…a “new” procedure which is fraught with the potential for abuse. Even the legal foreign nationals who do not have a grasp of the English language can, and have, been tricked into signing those registration applications, unaware that they were breaking the law. I would think that you would first in line to want to protect these people from committing an offense unknowingly which could, if they were caught, interfere with their ability to become citizens of this country.
AWC, it would be a new procedure if every single currently registered voter in the electorate would now have to present a birth certificate or passport or naturalization papers before they could vote again. That is the bureaucratic nightmare I was referring to and one I don’t think is justified by the scope of the problem of non-citizen voter fraud. As voter fraud and abuse of the electoral system goes even, this is a tiny component and I am more worried about others.
Motor Voter dates back to 1993 as a federal act. Not exactly new, but not that old either. I want to be crystal clear about what you are claiming. You are saying that prior to 1993 in US those registering to vote in the 50 states and the territories had to provide documentary PROOF of citizenship in the registration process. Ie. they did not have to simply affirm on the form that they were citizens (with the signature section swearing in effect that they had not giving false info). You are saying ALL voter registration before Motor Voter required proof of citizenship rather than affirmation?
Clear distinction: documentary proof v. affirming citizenship.
I think that’s pretty unlikely, but I could certainly be wrong. I guess it needs to be checked out somehow. I can try to find out, but since you have declared it as a required procedure, maybe you have some source you can cite?
WHWN, Bob Marshall is seen by most as an extremist. Mainstream republicans were having fits when they thought he might be running for government. Hang out around the state capitol and listen to what people say about him.
Any former aid of Bob Dornan is not your average mainstream kind of a guy. He also used to work for Judie Brown of American Life League. That organization wants to do away with all birth control. Mainstream? I don’t think so!
Thanks, Lucky Duck, I’m honored that you wanted to present the facts for all to read. The truth is always in the DETAILS. Its a shame people use abstract thinking to the point their “abstract opinions” have very little truth in them.
That is the problem with most of the people on this blog, they use opinion to imply truth. When they don’t like the truth, they distort it, re-write it, interpret it to fit their political agenda or simply ignore it.
Excellent article… I shows how much people lie, cheat and steal their way into affecting our political infrastructure and criminalize it.
We have an illegal alien voting problem AND a non-citizen voting problem in this country. Also don’t forget that “illegal” people who obtain licenses in other states, (like Maryland) come to Virginia to “exchange” those licenses using FALSE addresses and falsified papers, including voter registration cards to claim they have sufficient documentation to claim citizenship.
The problem occurs because “illegal” people LIE, and people who are helping them LIE FOR THEM.
What amazes me is why so many stupid people simply are afraid to offend anyone by holding them accountable to the law, thinking that in some sick way that is discrimminating against them, especially if they happpen to be members of ethnicities, races, genders or religious groups that are not a “majority”, and yet those same people scream and yell, “racists” when any member of a group that happens to be a “majority” wants the law to be enforced.
We are having another 1950s version epidimic of racism, and political crime in our country. SOME citizens, politicians and lawyers are looking the other way in fear and anger that they might have to take effective leadership action against their own race, gender, religion or ethnicity group.
We NEED to clean up out country and hold it more accountable to ethics and LAW. Doing this is EVERYONE’s responsibility.
Liela, I think there is sufficient vidence in Lucky’s post to prove that both “illegal” aliens AND Non-Citizens have registered to vote in LARGE NUMBERS. That alone is enough to require ALL of us to re-register to vote and PROVE we are citizen’s with ONLY a birth certificate, Passport, or Naturalization papers. Showing anything else is a loophole “illegal” and dishonest non-citizens can use to commit fraud.
I’m tired of having my vote “erased” by an “illegal” immigrant who lies and commits unlawful fraud.
“You are saying ALL voter registration before Motor Voter required proof of citizenship rather than affirmation?”
I have only direct knowledge of the Commonwealth of Virginia, this being the state where I grew up and have lived since I was 2 1/2 years old. However, I BELIEVE that to be the case, although I will not making such a sweeping statement without evidence of its veracity. If ANYONE knows what registration policy was in other states, I would be very much interested myself. We are, however, speaking of Virginia here, are we not?
Leila, I don’t believe it is a “bureaucratic nightmare” to present a birth certificate to prove I am a citizen, any more than presenting a birth certificate to register my son for high school sports or a medical physical was a nightmare, or getting my driver’s license was a nightmare. It took me 5 minutes to call the state health department, order a birth certificate, 2 minutes to get it out of the mail, and 1 hour to stand in line with 200 “illegal” immigrants and “non-citizens” in front of me at the DMV to get my license, that took 3 minutes at the window, as they checked my records via computer. One hour and ten minutes is NOT a “bureaucratic nightmare”, and NO BIG DEAL.
It is only a “hassle” for “illegals” and people who are non-citizens. THAT is what you are really afraid of. I have learned to read the “hidden agenda” behind the “illegal alien” lover rhetoric on this blog.
The “hidden agenda” from the massive number of posts on this blog, comes down to this:
We love “illegals. We want more “illegals”. If “illegals” are picked on because of their ethnicity (the only thing you are justified to claim is wrong), then we want to create laws and create political alliances that allow “illegals” to have legal advantages other “non-illegals” do not have. We don’t like the majority, because it is against us. We want everything we can get for our own kind, and only the people we want taken care of first, and we want to take care of our own race, gender, religion or ethnicity, and personal family members who are “illegal” instead of supporting the law and the democracy of majority rule. We will do this by lying, distorting truth, advocating political corruption, advocating political alliance based on gender, race, religion and ethnicity, and we will discrimminate when it serves our own self-interests best.
Michael, I am curious if you cast the same aspersions on those on the dark screen? Do they attempt to state opinion for fact?
I have lost track of who said what. I do not think that prior to 1993 that voters all had to show proof of citizenship. In fact, I don’t believe my daughter had to show a birth certificate to register to vote. I feel fairly certain I did not have to either.
Having said that, I don’t know if non-citizens are voting or not. I don’t know what would stop them if they chose to do it though. There seem to be very few safe-guards to prevent it from happening.
I believe registering to vote should be at least as stringent as being licensed to drive…at least. It is the one act that is uniquely ours as Americans. I would certainly support legislation that required all new voters to prove citizenship.
I wouldn’t mind having to re-register but I believe the process would be too costly and cumbersome. So in general, I would be supportive of doing it, but practically, I don’t know how it would happen. I put voting rights right up there with National Parks. Don’t screw with them. They are national treasures.
Correction: I will no MAKE, not making. Memo to self: Proofread, proofread, proofread!
Great!…my correction needs correction. I give up. 🙁
Hmmm. Would Bob Marshall have felt so strongly about the Senior Day Care Center if it hadn’t directly impact him – his father in law was a client.
Now I am wondering who in his family is not a citizen that voted.
Extremists ususally function this way. They are very outspoken on social issues until it impact them. THEN it’s a problem.
Moon-howler, proof of citizenship and residency was absolutely required when I registered, for one. I remember it well because I procrastinated, waiting until the last minute, to get my Naturalization papers and had to scramble in order to have them so that I could register to vote (registration age was 21 back then). It’s not something you soon forget…and taught me a BIG lesson about procrastination!
Michael, where to start with you? I don’t have time at the moment to go point by point. I doubt very much your ability to read anything hidden in what people write because you haven’t revealed any ability to read anything overt.
1. This is not an issue about illegal aliens. It is an issue about non-citizens. I have already stated several times I don’t think non-citizens should vote.
2. Obviously it is no trouble for you or any given individual to on a singular occasion provide proof of citizenship. Are you really this obtuse? Don’t answer that. The issue is having to re-register with proof of citizenship 153 million people. That is the number (approximately) of registered voters. Even if half that number decided to go through the procedure before a major election so they could vote, it would be a problem both on the registry side and the obtaining records side (for large numbers of people). If I really need to spell it out for you, I can. Your comparisons are ludicrous about the DMV and such.
The rest of your post is nonsensical and unsubstantiated and please refer again to point #1.
AWC, my experience, Moon-Howler’s recollection for her and her daughter, are different than yours in regard to pre-Motor Voter registration. You also didn’t hedge on your first post at all. You declared it was required. Full stop. This is something that seems highly unlikely to me, but it can only be solved with some kind of documenting. When I have time, I will try to find out and report back.
The discussion was both about Virginia and in general since the examples in Lucky’s pasted article were not about this state.
It figures, Leila, that you’d take Moon-howler’s recollection over mine. That aside, I would be interested in your research, and documentation, of the subject in general.
AWC, now you are just being kind of silly. I am interested in finding out what is accurate whereever it leads and unlike you, I never made a blanket assertion that something was required.
Above, I specified my own recollection along with the experience recalled by M-H and her daughter. That’s 3 of one kind, one of the other. I would invite others here to say if they recall being *required* to bring documents. Second, your experience may have somehow been affected by the fact that you are naturalized. I don’t know. But it is at least a possibility that your experience could have differed or that somehow it came up.
I haven’t found anything yet, but I certainly find lots of discussions in the press and elsewhere of instituting proof laws requiring birth certs/passports/or naturalization papers and in those discussions there haven’t been any comments so far as in “RETURN things to the way they were in the past.” But that doesn’t mean you are wrong. I will keep looking but it will have to wait until later.
In terms of credibility, I would only say that you do tend to come out pistols blazing in terms of your declarations without any hedging or qualifying statements. And then later those assertions prove to be incorrect. But in this case it was more that I wondered if your experience was indeed different.
Really Leila…then how is it that well-researched documentation is so boring for you? Obviously you much prefer the “shoot from the hip,” animated discussion where collective recollections from you and certain others trump those of anyone else…to the point where you’re essentially calling me a liar, or mental. Do your research and document it for a change and, if I’m wrong, I’d be the first to apologize (not many others do).
AWC, I beg your pardon. Where was it that I said researched documentation was boring for me? Quotation please. Now please. The very notion is kind of a giggle since I am always citing documents around here (to a fault) and have done so in this very thread (Heritage FOundation report name/Virginia voter registration document, for example). In fact it is a pleasure to me to document things. Please indicate how on earth you would think that documentation would be boring for me since I am always doing it or trying to do it and also asking others to do it for their claims.
I didn’t call you a liar. I was trying to explain why *for the moment* I was assuming that I was not incorrect in my hunch that documents of citizenship were not always required prior to 1993’s Motor Voter act. I never said that you were not required to provide such documents. I questioned whether EVERYONE was from 1993 back and said I may or may not be correct.
“Document [my research] for a change” ? Oh that’s rich. That’s really funny AWC. Funny and bizarre. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else here. I said I would keep looking, I told you what I had found already, and I would also suggest that you have an obligation to look too since you are the one making the blanket assertion about Virginia’s pre-1993 law. I can’t look more now because I have work obligations, but I will look later. Dashing off a post takes a minute or two. Trying to track down this requirement you allege for Virginia will take more. It certainly isn’t popping up in the obvious places the way other things have.
Take that as you will. It certainly doesn’t mean you are wrong.
I am sorry if you feel you have been mistreated in this or in the mythical “massive layoffs” at the Post Office business. It wasn’t my intent. But you may have quite a comedic future with your assertions above about my needing to document things “for a change.” Too funny!
I registered to vote back in the dark ages. I might have had to show my drivers’ license. I feel certain I did not have to produce a birth certificate. However, I just quizzed my son about what he had to do. He was in high school and he registered to vote at the same time he registered for the draft. The school did it.
The school would have a verified DOB and a birth certificate number. Now, here’s the question, how much in the loop was the school? Did they hand the kids the form, already printed? That would make a huge difference. Also, my son would have registered to vote after 1993.
There is another component of AWC and my collective memories that is touchy to discuss. She was in a small town and I was in an even smaller town. Probably most of the people she came in contact with knew she bad been an immigrant. Therefore, she was required to produce her paperwork.
I was a fairly new kid in my small town but people knew who I was or at least knew who my mother and father were and knew we were non-immigrant Americans. How did they know? My parents worked in the small town and people made it their business to know other people’s business. People were just less formal in those days and probably nosier. I do remember having to take some sort of oath though. Raise your right hand kind of oath…probably that I was a citizen.
Back in the day, people just ‘knew’ who was a citizen and who wasn’t in non-urban areas. If you had an accent of any kind, they looked at you more closely. Non PC type stuff.
Moon-howler. My recollection is similar. I registered at the registrar’s office in Fairfax. I probably produced a driver’s license. This was in 1966. Earlier that year my government cIass in Georgia had walked down to the courthouse to register as part of a class project. Those who were still 17 were excluded. I didn’t register because my father had already moved to Virginia, I knew my family would be moving here, and I intended to become a Virginia resident. I don’t remember being asked for a driver’s license or birth certificate because the school had our info and knew who could register and who couldn’t.
Now I wonder about the age at which I registered. I wonder if our registration in Georgia was for local and state elections. I had to wait – possibly missing an election – before I could register in Virginia.
“AWC, I beg your pardon. Where was it that I said researched documentation was boring for me? Quotation please. Now please.”
It took a while (with a little help from my friends), but I found the exchange to which I was referring, Leila…and I owe you an apology. Sorry.
Specifically, and the reason that I confused that exchange with a comment by someone else on another early thread (Stirrup’s Quarterly Townhall Meeting Update, November 12th, 2008), was that we did have a bit of an exchange far earlier that. The exchange where you were criticizing my blog was from an even earlier thread (BVBL Strives for High Standard?, August 19th, 2008), but you were not criticizing the content of my blog…you were ragging on the fact that I had rather specific rules. I apologize for confusing the two.
The fact is, I would actually appreciate it if you would continue looking for that information regarding formal proof of citizenship requirements pre-Motor Voter as I put aside in-depth research for a time…otherwise I would be continuing my own blog (which I do not have the time or energy to continue for the moment). I have seldom been commenting on any blog, and then only offering information based upon personal experience, which is what I offered here, and direct knowledge. Other than that, I’m only offering my opinion…nothing more. It was, however, important to me to make sure that I did not accuse you falsely, which it turns out I did…and for that I’m very sorry. This search was actually the closest thing to “in-depth research” that I’ve done in a while.
Leila,
You have been extremely dedicated to this thread ! This is what I have to say, albiet briefly, about voter fraud. My sister called me, prior to this election, extremely concerned about the “republican” influence over the actual voting machines. She had all the experts lined up, from Harvard etc, that could prove how easy it was to change a vote from a D to an R. During the same election, there was voter hysteria over ACORN and whether Mickey Mouse was going to show up and vote for Obama. I guess my point is this, there is “evidence” from both sides, whomever it benefits the most, that voter fraud is rampant. However, their is no clear proof, by either side, that any of this has actually influenced any election.
Leila:
re your generous 0849 comment on Thursday (LIncoln/Darwin Day): I don’t spend much time here for a reason. Others have more trouble thinking clearly than you folks. You’re doing fine without me.
Scout
Now I consider that the real seal of approval! Thank you, Scout, but I do hope you will post regularly.
M-H aka NoVA Scout groupie
Thank you Scout! We would still love a friendly “shout out” every once so often from you 🙂
Although Bob Marshall has embarrassed me over and over with his freaky discussion of female reproductive organs, I have to give the edge to Greg Letiecq when it comes to humiliating residents of Prince William County in the eyes of the rest of the world.
If one or the other of them has to go. I’d like to see Letiecq go. He’s not even from this county and he’s given us all a reputation for racism and extreme right wing hate movements.
It looks to me like Letiecq is gone…… Doesn’t appear to have so many ‘friends’ these days or elected officials are re-thinking the company they keep.
I hope so Juturna. But Jackson Miller has yet to re-think. And Letieccq will always have Supervisor Stirrup in his cult. Literally.
Kudos to Bob Marshall for keeping his distance from Letiecq from the start.
I don’t think I’d be so quick with the “kudos for Bob Marshall” for keeping his distance from Letiecq. One of my friends from Marshall’s district was very disappointed when they learned he spoke quite feverishly at a meeting hosted by Help Save Manassas.
Miller would be wise to distance himself too. Rishell has already started the phone calls and letters to her supporters.
You said it, Juturna.
Rishell is rapidly turning into the Democrat’s own Bob FitzSimmonds…the perennial also ran. Neither has any idea of how the people of their respective districts think, or what it is that they want…which is definitely not them.
Bob Marshall also made a foaming-at-the-mouth hate speech (pun intended) at a Help Save Manassas meeting????? Say it isn’t so.
Interesting if Rishel runs again, there will be no escape for Jackson Miller. Everyone will be reminded of who his best buddy is: Gospel Greg Letiecq.
Stirrup is just a spiffed up up Letiecq. That’s all. Have you ever watched Stirrup try to smile? It’s gruesome.
I think Bob Marshall marches to his own drummer. We have different tunes in our head but I think he is more independant and confident.
Jackson Miller is just looking for the best opportunity for him. He has’t grown up enough yet to be his own man.
That’s too bad if Marshall went to an HSM meeting. Politicians in general are so disappointing, but especially when they see a clash between racial groups as an opportunity to score political points. Notice how they never seem to join extremist minority groups.
Juturna, Stirrup and Miller both frighten me because they look like they are just barely containing their rage. Stirrup is the only person on the Board who can regularly be seen raising his voice and freaking out. He’s totally quiet most of the time but then the volcano fissures open up. Jackson Miller looks angry a lot of the time. Especially when he is under pressure. I would like to have a leader who is cool under fire, and does not crack under pressure, if I could have my druthers. Losing your cool and getting angry easily makes me worry.
Point of order! Point of order! Ahhhh, feel the luv.
The joke is, of course, Mr. Jenkins was correct. Very correct. It was about the money needed by PWC to operate. Those point of order freaks should have listened to Mr. John Jenkins and maybe they wouldn’t have turned PWC into a third world county with a murder once a week.
Jake, that is a good point, but I’m not sure if everyone reading this blog is as familiar as you are with the story of how the Immigration Resolution came to be. “Point of order!!!” refers to a tantrum that gripped Supervisor John Stirrup at the moment he realized that his Help Save Manassas-spawned, hate-group-written Immigration Resolution was threatened by the exorbitant cost it was going to exact on Prince William County taxpayers.
In Stirrup’s defense, his idol Corey Stewart had just blown a gasket of his own a moment earlier. But Stewart, in my opinion, is so much more agreeable when he’s shouting. Stirrup looks like a … I don’t know, what? … Juturna help me out here.
Jake’s use of the phrase “third world country” is, I believe, intended as irony, since this phrase was used to describe the fate Help Save Manassas was actually supposed to be saving us FROM; not creating. I wouldn’t agree that we’ve become a third world country just because the murder rate seems to be going up. I’m not even sure if this is an actual or a perceived phenomenon. But I certainly don’t feel any safer now that police say they are “flying blind,” often unable to get information or cooperation from minority communities who wrongly see Prince William County’s finest as instruments of race warfare … perhaps the most tragic legacy of the Corey Stewart/Greg Letiecq cabal.
Crimes that go unreported (where the victims are afraid to talk to the police) lead to crimes that ARE reported (where the victims are people like you and me), because the consequence of cutting off an entire community from a trusting relationship with local law enforcement is that violent criminals have a supply of victims that will not go to the police, no matter how brutally they are treated.
Haha! John Stirrup – the man who was more offended by a speaker’s use of the word “ass” than he was by the Immigration Resolution monstrosity he unleashed on our county. There’s leadership and logic for you!