If you have not heard as of yet, the BofCS decided today via a “Staff Directive” to remove the “legal presence” requirement for unincorporated business owners to renew their BPOL in Prince William County. Now, instead of requiring unincorporated business owners to verify their immigration status in person they will only have to check a box on a form.
It is worth noting that of the approximate 4,000 unincorporated business who were supposed to physically present themselves at McCoart to prove their legal status, only about 300 had as yet complied with the requirement. Interpretation: the County was looking at a huge revenue loss due to noncompliance. With a filing deadline of March 2, there was no way 3,700 business owners were going to show up in the next nine business days.
Congratulations to John Gray for bringing this matter to the attention of Supervisors.
This is excellent news Alanna! I have a question though,what does the f in BofCS stand for, or is it a typo? Talk about a stupid requirement with no intrinsic value!!!!!!
Can I guess about the F?
All kidding aside, thanks John.
Board of County Supervisors
Constitutional Rights for sale! Get ya Constitutional Rights right ova heah! If you got the cash, we got the rights for sale.
Alanna, your reading is correct about revenue concerns. And thank goodness. I had confidence this would happen but you never know when misguided politics might scuttle a sound policy decision. We should all call our Supervisors to thank them for this wise decision.
And, not to take anything away from the honorable Mr. Gray, but there were many others in the business community who brought this to the Supervisors’ attention, but did so behind the scenes.
Let’s not forget Supervisor Nohe had pointed out the folly of this measure from the outset, and Supervisor Principi had his sights set on overturning this atrocious measure since he first took office a year ago. I want to thank Elena for her execellent post on the subject which put added pressure on Chairman Stewart not to stand in the way. I feel that Chairman Stewart deserves credit for reversing himself just a week after publicly saying no change was necessary. It shows he is maturing as a leader. I thank him and all the Supervisors for using their best judgement and not caving into pressure from deranged radicals with limited information.
Celebrate, Prince William County. A small victory, yes, but it feels as though we are seeing our government restored after a period of hostile occupation.
A check box on a piece of paper. Think of all the money the illegals will save on having to purchase false documentation ; )
I am glad the business community took a stand on this, whether they meant to or not. The BOCS should get the message that these immigration related policies are anti-business as well as discriminatory.
Well at every level, businesses dominate the rest of us and tell us which laws they will and won’t follow. And when they take losses, we bail them out for the sake of “stimulus”. It’s sickening to me but I guess you want to celebrate it.
I’ll take it as a victory. It was an impediment to businesses and was going to cost the county money.
I sometimes wonder whether we should have just allowed them to go ahead with their original hair-brained scheme of having everybody prove legal presence everywhere. Imagine the ordinary citizenry being inconvenienced at every turn. That might have been exactly what was needed to toss the whole idea in the trash.
I suggest to the Latino community to start wearing a brace around the upper arm as the Jews were force to wear in Nazi Germany. The logo on the band has to say “Legal Human from PWC”. Maybe that will satisfy the in-the closet segregationists. Also to those that don’t have any European characteristics, tape your US passport on your forehead in case ICE mistakes your dark skin…..immigrant.
My great country with the Statue of Liberty; I see it now between Staten Island and Manhattan and she is in tears. Ellis Island and those tens of million of immigrants that came through there to find the American dream, I wonder what they have to say to the fears that many immigrants are facing today.
You could be a legal immigrant and an American citizen and be arrested by ICE. Make sure that you have as much proof and information with you all the times. Like in Nazi Germany…..documents please…
(From Rick Bentley: “Well at every level, businesses dominate the rest of us and tell us which laws they will and won’t follow. And when they take losses…”)
No Rick, Actually it’s often the politicians and their appointees dominating us, like Geithner following his own tax-paying (or not) rules and then being appointed to oversee the heavy hand that will tell YOU what rules to follow and what taxes to pay. As far as business and bailout goes, you’re wrong there too. Most businesses in the U.S. are small businesses like mine. We’re not looking for a bailout and we’re not looking to stick it to other taxpayers. We’re just trying to work independently, without excess government interference and help provide jobs in the process. So, “at every level,”….no..don’t make sweeping generalizations.
Conservador: I totally get your point and I’ll wear my passport on my forehead. I’m often mistaken for Latino. I was born here, as were my Great grand parents, but people frequently askl me were I’m REALLY from. I was once asked to produce my “green card” while opening an account at a bank in Queens, N.Y. The misinformed bank employee was insistent that I produce proof of U.S. citizenship (my family immigrated here in the1800’s). Profiling, prejudice, bigotry and ignorance…amazing.
I hope everybody visits the thread regarding the ICE raid in Maryland.
VERY scary to me!!!!!!!
“I suggest to the Latino community to start wearing a brace around the upper arm as the Jews were force to wear in Nazi Germany.”
Funny, I haven’t noticed any concentration camps yet. But if you want to use that kind of rhetoric to inspire illegal aliens to go home, fine by me.
D. Bornstein, i meant that at every level of government – Federal, State, Local – our government is bought and paid for by big business.
I feel for small businesses.
Rick: The bigotry and profiling experienced here in PW has inspired U.S. citizens to leave this county, not just “illegal aliens.” You don’t wait for concentration camps to appear before you act to stem the tide that takes you down that slippery slope. Read The History of the Third Reich. “Never Again,” is my motto.
I agree with Alanna, this is a victory for Prince William County. The Immigration Resolution is about “immigration” for a small group of people who are either really angry, really afraid, or really cynical. For the rest of us, the Immigration Resolution affected the long term interests of this community in a very negative way. Not just our reputation and our local economy, but also our public safety has been negatively affected, and the future of this county as a good place to “live, work, and play.”
For our business environment and our living environment to function, we need people to WANT to live here, and we need people to WANT to do business here. In countless ways, the Immigration Resolution has made our county the last place anyone would want to live, work, or play. Business owners may have a little more clout. But let’s not forget it was ordinary citizens who rose up to object to racial profiling and the legal costs involved in that, thus the neutering of the police part of the Resolution a year ago.
In the end, it’s not about immigration at all. It’s about the long term well-being of our county. We lost sight of that when we got distracted by “immigration.” We took our eyes off the prize and we are paying a big price for that. But this change means that it will hurt a lot less, and for that I’m grateful to the Supervisors, and all the citizens who little by little made sanity in our government chambers possible. That means you. All of you, even those who don’t agree with me, because this blog has been a big part of it. Thanks everyone!
Yes well I think 99.999% of us feel that way. The mistake that you make, one that i find downright irrational, is to overreact in such a way as to enable anarchy and loss of sovereignty because you think enforcing US law is .0001% of the way down the “slippery slope”.
The guy featured in this video, who spoke over by Fernandez’ sign, seems much more Nazi-esque to me – http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2009/02/17/gaudencio-fernandez-just-whos-the-racist/#comments
Conservador and D. Bornstein, I’m glad you joined this blog. I’ve learned a lot from your posts already. But you know the comparisons to Nazi Germany really get people upset. And anyway, now that it’s not our government but just a few crazy people who talk about Hispanics and “illegals” in frightening ways, perhaps the comparison is not as valid?
“For our business environment and our living environment to function, we need people to WANT to live here,”
It’s well-documented that a lot of English speaking citizens packed up and left for fear of what PWC was turning into a few years ago. And well-documented that at this point PWC is selling homes quicker than neighboring counties.
“and we need people to WANT to do business here.”
Stores full of illegal aliens were not encouraging American citizens to shop here. My family tended to drive a few miles away not to ahve to deal with the craziness that was PWC a few years ago.
Do you think that the Hispanic Americans will leave the county because of fears of discrimination? Give me a break! The Latino community will stay here in PWC, they will follow the law, they will be patient, they will create businesses, and they will make PWC their county. Many of the family members are not US citizens just jet, but they will be in the near future and the demographics are in their favor. They will vote, and when that happens, don’t ask why they vote Democrat.
“and they will make PWC their county”
Interesting way to express it. PWC was always 20% Latino to start with.
“demographics are in their favor”
You mean because they have so many babies?
Rick Bentley
You make your own conclusion!
20% that has not reached its full potential to vote yet.
OK then, my apology if that’s not what you meant.
I personally have nothing against Latinos and am glad to have 2 new Latino families on my block, who are living 1 family to a home. I have nothing against people using some Spanish but when they are holding loud conversations in public places that exclude non-Spanish speakers, I don’t like it. My 2 cents.
I love Thomas Jefferson. Here’s food for thought..
“The Spanish language… and the English covering nearly the whole face of America, they should be well-known to every inhabitant who means to look beyond the limits of his farm.” –Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1788. ME 7:44
ShellyB: The climate has improved dramatically and I appreciate that. There will always be a few people though, who will never understand that the discrimination still extends to legally documented Hispanic residents and naturalized U.S. citizens as part of the backlash of the enforcement. That’s a pain that is hard for others to emphathize with unless they have felt it. If you’re Latino, you’ve felt it. If you’re married to a Latino, you’ve felt it. If I write dramatically it’s to strike that point home. I credit this blogsite for helping to spread the understanding and compassion needed in our community. Thank you all for that.
Am I wrong or didn’t most people here say that the employer of illegal immigrants be penalized more than the illegal immigrant? I agree with that as well which is why I thought that this was in place. Now people here are cheering the fact that they only have to check a box to allow illegal immigrants to work? I don’t get it, which is it? Come down on the people who hire them or come down on them? Apparently it’s neither, can someone explain?
No, we don’t check a box to allow people to work. We employers, fill out a form for all new hires called an I-9. That’s a federal form for all new hires, whether they are U.S. citizens or not. If your boss was compliant, you have an I-9 on file in your employee folder also.
The discussion began here about business lisence applicants, not employees.
Some of that Sherif Joe stuff in Arizona reminds me of a concentration camp.
Before 1990 the number of hispanics living in PWC was negligible. I don’t know what this ‘always’ talk is about.
To WHWN: Please know I am fully aware the business community was also involved in acomplishing this goal. I am the immediate past Chair of the PWC Regional Chamber Public Policy committee and in that capacity have worked to address this through the County (I have been a part of that committee for 20 years now). Please know I am not claiming ownership of this by any means. I respect and acknowledge that others were involved. However, I pushed it faster by calling for a press conference at the end of January to highlight the issue because the filing deadline for the tax is March 2. With only three meetings in February, that did not allow the BofCS to act timely ro rescind the requrement (and the “f” in BofCS is as Alanna explained at 22:49 above. I have the habit of referring to the Board as the “BofCS”, not “BoCS”. I would not infer a slur word in public. Privately, yes, but publicly, no!). My concern about the “legal presence” requirement was that it served no purpose whatsoever. Only unincorporated businesses had to prove their legal presence. Not INcorpoerated businesses (so, to get around the requirement, just incorporate). It was a “feel good” requirement that sounded good when proposed (I opposed it all along) but practically speaking, was a meaningless gesture. To have 4,000 small business owners all show up in a one month period was not thought out. The exercise wasted $80,000 of precious county tax dollars. I also didn’t like the requirement because I felt it actually questioned my integrity, my honesty, my patriotism. Sounds corny but that is the way I feel. I have paid the tax for 21 years and nobody has questioned my “legality”, so why should it be questioned now? If my legal presence was sufficient for the government to accept my enlistment in the USMC way back in 1969, send me to Vietnam for two tours and allow me to vote since 1972 (voted for Nixon), than I should be allowed to have a business license. In addition, why do the innocent in PWC have to prove their innocence? Last I heard, the government has the burden of proving the guilt of one accused of a crime. I felt as if I was being accused of being illegal and then I had to prove I am not. Also, the justification that the Commonweath AG required this was, politely stated, erroneous and conveniently used to justify the requirement. I believed the “threat” that if I didn’t comply I would lose my business license and “be closed down” was ridiculous. The County doesn’t have the legal authoity to close a business. It can of course enforce collection of the tax but the license is simply the legal authority to COLLECT the tax.The County does not have the constitutional authoirty to regulate trade and commerce. The Commonweath licenses me as a CPA, not Prince William County. My point is the entire “process” was chock full of holes. I just wan’t going to stand by and accept this kind of garbage. I think I’ve probably said more than enough adn should probably just “sign off”, whihc I will. I’m going to the Cap’s game……….
I think that all involved in this should be commended for going about it in the correct fashion. Mr. Gray, a long time PWC businessman had a legitimate concern about a county regulation that he felt would impact the business community, and he made his case to the board. The BOCS also acted responsibly by listening to the concerns, analyzing all sides of the issue and came to a rational conclusion that a small modification to the licensing requirements was warranted. The board is often maligned for action either taken or not taken, but in this instance I feel our county government acted in the manner in which all citizens expect it to regardless of one’s personal position on the issue before the board.
“Before 1990 the number of hispanics living in PWC was negligible. I don’t know what this ‘always’ talk is about.”
The 2000 Census put it at 9.4% according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_William_County,_Virginia
It always amazes my how people are always so off the mark when it comes to analyzing truth and ethics, crime and fraud. If we parented this way
(and so many do) our children would all grow up to be dishonest and fraudulent to society.
This “legal” presence measure was DESIGNED to identify “illegal” people from “legal” people, because citizens have so few tools to identify who is legal and who is illegal and because the country has politically fought to create such conditions of “privacy protection” that people who break laws, people who are criminals and people who seriously harm society by their fraud can continue to operate without any FEAR of reprisal. We as a society are creating the conditions for organized crime to flourish as a result of our stupidity.
Those of you who think racism is the problem are racists yourselves, because you think only your race, gender, religion or ethnicity group is affected by these events and is the only group needing protection from these events. You are ALL SO WRONG. Here’s why…
If ANY of you have studied the rise of the Italian mafia (and in Sicily) you will realize the first mafia was the Medici family in Florence. They were bankers! The medici realized that Florence politicians had relaxed current banking laws and had no protections or policies in place to prevent fraud, dishonesty, outside illegal influence from foreigners, and weakness in law enforcement in the society. The Nobles or Aristocracy, were “isolated behind rich palace walls, and had their own monetary system and independent law enforcement (the knights who were actually common thugs for hire). They did not care nor did they politically desire to take the heat from the common people to ensure ethics, honesty and civility overcame crime and rampant poverty. They simply buried their heads in the sand and ignored the current legal system and law enforcement system, except when their own wealth was affected…
The medici’s, or common business owners took advantage of this by promoting fraud, illegal immigration, dishonesty and discrimmination in the form of ethnic, gender, racial and religious groups known as “guilds”. Here is how it took their society down…
John S. Grey… and BOCS are you LISTENING?
Rick, not doubting your stats. I just made the comment that 1990 there were very few hispanics in the area. I am commenting about 10 years before your stats which appear to be around 10% in 2000 and almost 20% by 2005.
Michael, I think John Grey did the right thing. He pushed to do away with something that really had no merit and cost the tax payer money.
The medici’s first forged banking documentation, committed banking fraud, forged documents, refused to follow existing law (actually created their own law), bribed greedy politiicians, threatened political survival and personal survival of honest politicians and nobles, hired their own police force (corrupt of course) and had “private” behind the scenes meetings with criminals in the society to create a two tiered banking and investment lending system based on what race, gender, religion or “ethnicity” you belonged to. Does this sound like Manassas Park and places in Fairfax, and Maryland to you? This “group” became known as the “family” or later mafia. It was essentially a secret society of criminal thugs that agreed to be racists and to discrimminate against all those not in the “family” by charging them higher prices for trade goods and higher loan rates for business loans. If you were not in the ethnic-centric guilds you would not get the secret discounts and you would get preferential treatment on your business license and business tax payments. They systematically put all legitimate lawful businesses out of business by bringing in foreign investment, foreign political thugs outside of Florence and established them as the “new middle class”. The discrimmination was deliberate, and preferential treatment was based on what race you were from, what gender you were, what religion you believed in and what ethnicity or “family” you belonged to. Everyone else was politically demonized in private and when possible in public. The guilds ruled the economy with an iron fist and were primarily owned by foreign criminal investors who formed foreign banks in France, Greece, and Turkey and surrounding regional “states” in Italy, including sicily (were the first name “mafia”came from about 300 years later). The medici’s became so politically powerful, the law enforcement was non-existant, and they had free reign over all the economy, maintained by open political support for the “arts”, and a facade of nobility, but in reality held private courts that decided what laws they would and could break and what ethics they could get away with, before the nobility or law enforcement noticed it. As long as they did not openly challenge the aristocracy or legal law enforcement entities they were free to operate “under the radar” without any oversight of their documentation, their account balance sheets, their tax accounting, their family possessions, their land acquisitions and deeds of ownership, their banking practices, their buiness practices, their private thuggery or their overcrowding of Florence districts and homes with people they preferred to do business with that came only from their own ethnicity or guilds. The existing middle class was removed from society and had to move to other locations outside of Florence.
Eventually they put two “criminal” popes into the vatican…all the while claiming the church of Rome discrimminated against them.
See the Medici were an “ethnic group”, that discrimminated against all other ethnic groups to replace the current hodgepodge of people in Italy from all parts of the world due to the influence of the Roman empire. This is EXACTLY what “illegal” immigrants are doing to our community NOW. They too are claiming discrimination, when they are actually even more blatant bigots and racists than the people they claim who are trying to stop them. Illegals claim alligiance only to their “ethnicity” and their “language” just like the medici guilds and their “family” is the only benefactor of un-fair business practices. They are also breaking the law and refusing to follow the law just like the medici family, and they ARE getting the existing ruling class and politicians to accept their notion of business “guilds” with two-tiered ethnic payment systems, targeted ethnic business inside information and “housing practice” and loan fraud based on whether you are a member of their ethnicity or not. They promote only their own ethnicity businesses, their own ethnicity newspapers and their own ethnicity laws while they continue to break the common law. The politicians of this time are only too happy to help the “illegals” of this time continue to break law and continue to ethnically discrimminate, just like the medici “guilds” did in Italy as they moved in from foreign locations and took over the existing Roman Italian government, creating a little “medici” country, outside of the reach of the law inside of Florence politics. They became the “ruling family” 200 years later. So being “illegal” and ignoring law pays off as it has in history for “illegal” immigrants who are bold enough to ignore current law, commit fraud and policy manipulation by putting thier own ethnicity into power, and undermining fair business practice with ethnic preferences.
Lying on the business license check box, and refusing to apply for a business license is only the first step to lying about everything else, since they have already lied to get the necessary papers to function as “illegals” in our society, and VERY STUPID PEOPLE ARE ONLY TOO HAPPY TO LET THEM DO IT, like you do…
Moon-howler, I think it had to actually be more like 40-50% in 2005, Census to the contrary.
It does not matter who came here in 2000-2005. All that matters is how they function as an “illegal” group, or a group that follows law and does not allow preferential treatment based on what ethnicity or “guild” ythey belong to. NONE OF YOU WHO SUPPORT ILLEGALS GET THIS…
I think John Grey and the BOCS are short-sighted until, just like in Florence it becomes to late to reverse pervasive ethnic empires that continue to undermine and subvert law and fairness in society.
Rick, are you telling me that 50% of the population of Prince William County was latino in 2005 or have I misread you?
John Gray, thank you for your post which explained the problem really well from a personal as well as a business perspective. And thanks for taking action to fix the problem.
You misread him, but why does race matter to anyone here? Bigotry concepts at work perhaps by ALL the people on this blog who only focus on race, gender, religion and ethnicity?
John Grey, thank you for joining the ranks of those who are destroying ethics and honesty in our community by giving “illegals” preferential treatment and a way to avoid detection again.
John, don’t mind Michael. He means well but he knows not what he types.
John,
Hats off to you! Make it to the anti anniversary party we are planning and I’ll buy you a cocktail or soda of your choice 🙂
Yes John, please pay no mind to “michael”, who, by the way, brags about turning his one illegal “phatom wife” into INS, keeping their checking accounts seperate because she is compelety untrustworthy with money, and condeming her for being an unethical person, along with her friends and family.
D. Bornstein,
It is true that people get very freaked out about the Nazi comparison, but the reality is that you have people like “Rick” expressing no problem with “illegally” detaining a legal resident of American, simply based on the fact that he looks Hispanic. I guess since Rick does not look hispanic he could care less about those who do. The lesson of Nazi Germany is that one must never stand silently by while hate and prejudice grow like a cancer, to that end, Prince William County is a shining example of those who stood tall in the darkest times, finding their voices and speaking out against the rising tide of the villification of latino’s.
No “Rick” , I am not calling you a Nazi, so please, don’t misinterpret what I am saying. THere are no Nazi’s in PWC!
Elena, I made the same observations and I’m standing with you on all of that.