116 Thoughts to “WP: Conflicting Accounts of an ICE Raid in MD”
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- Citizen Tom
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- Derecho, The
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- PW Conservation Alliance
- PWC Moms
- PWCPolitics.com
- PWCPolitics.com
- Red NoVA
- Shad Plank, The
- She the People
- State of NoVA, the
- The Jeffersoniad
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- You, Me and the Lamp Post
and?
What? You’ve got a father going for a cup of coffee and nobody hears from him for three days. No big deal? You’re yanking my chain. And?
AWESOME! We need a lot more of this! Is there a way to petition ICE to do these raids in our area? Such as over at the coverstone 7-11?
Too bad this guy Giuillen got inconvenienced but these things happen. Does he speak English? If not I feel zero sympathy for him. Is his son’s medical care being paid for by US taxpayers? If so on balance he’s making out quite nicely. The officer made a mistake there, call it profiling or don’t but it’s hardly the end of the world.
MORE ARIDS, PLEASE!!!!!!
This is very heartening footage. I’m glad the Post has made it available so that Americans can see that there is SOME hope for US law occasionally being enforced. Very encouraging.
I meant more RAIDS, not ARIDS.
I’m in favor of letting ICE deputize ordinary citizens … we could pick up day laborers by the dozens and transport them to ICE officers … maybe for a few dollars a head?
It would wipe out the day labor phenomenon in a humane way if the laborers thought each time they got into a truck they might be taken over to an ICE facility for deportation.
Guillen is here by special order of Congress – http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.227.IS:
Which I think is really a complete load of crap.
Alanna,
There’s a lot about that father we don’t know. Well, I’m sure YOU think YOU know, that’s how you folks are, make judgements before you KNOW anything. Then of course there’s your refusal to blame the first wrong (illegals coming into this country) and look for some later reaction to the first wrong to place blame on. If that father was really in this country legally, then man, did he ever show up at the wrong place at the wrong time! Nobody sees anything wrong with these people loitering outside the 7-11 harassing every car that comes within a mile. Blame the people who committed that act that caused this kind of enforcement action.
Rick Bentley,
If it’s a special order of Congress that’s legal. When people object to attorneys using law to obtain lawful status, it contradicts your supposed message about ‘unlawful behavior’ and begs the question — what part of legal don’t you understand?
Slowpoke,
are advocating for unlawful detainment because someone has violated a civil law?
Oh, it’s legal.
What upsets me is that our legislators let in so many people from specific countries, which have fairly healthy economies – Honduras, Guatemala, and most of all El Salvador. I honestly believe they do this to ensure a flow of nannies and gardeners for themselves and their well-off friends, that this is Ted kennedy et al’s idea of Christian Charity.
Meanwhile I’ve seen what has happened to sections of DC where thousands of unassimilated from those countries have moved into, and it’s not pretty. It’s not my American dream or anyone else’s. But the view from the Penthouse is quite nice I’m sure.
THIS isn’t racial profiling!!????? The guys goes in to 7-11 to buy a cup of coffee and disappears for THREE DAYS!!!! His child is sick with cancer, his wife has NO idea what happened to her husband and YOU think this is great? What is wrong with you Rick? Do you have children? I have two, and the idea that my husband could disappear for three days, while my child is fighting for their life, is disgusting to me. This WAS NOT a mere inconvienence Rick. Because he may or may not be proficient in English he deserved to have his civil rights trampled on?
Interesting that two of the crazies, Rick and Slow, jumped all over this and said yes, let’s do more to erode civil rights in this country that supposedly “prides itself on all men are created equal.” I wonder where the average poster on this blog will stand on this. Because a lot of us stood up and helped to neuter the Immigration Resolution in PWC, not because it was an affront to civil rights, but because it was a disaster for everyone who lives in this county, from an economic, quality of life, and public safety standpoint. Also, it felt really scary to see public officials and the letter of the law in PWC reflect the kind of hatred and prejudice that Rick and Slow love to anonymously exhibit. But how many of us took a stand based on civil rights alone?
I had a bad feeling about the civil rights aspect. But I left it to other to take action. Now that it has become clear to everyone, even the same public official who championed the Immigration Resolution, that it has been a policy disaster, it is easy to jump on the band wagon and say it was also morally and ethically wrong. But who here besides Alanna was brave enough to say so from the beginning.
Rick and Slow, shame on you for what you said above.
I didn’t say it was great or good that Guillen got detained. It was a mistake.
But the raid itself is long overdue and we need more, not less, please.
“hatred and prejudice”
I HATE the way our elitists fail to enforce US law for the sake of degrading wages, yes.
Prejudice? Not racial prejudice.
Either the red carpet is rolled out, or it is rolled up.
ShellyB
Shame on me?? Right back at ya!
Alanna,
Unless we get around to punishing based on the ORIGINAL wrong committed, nothing will ever get better. You’re fine with these folks hanging out in front of a store swarming any vehicle that gets within a mile?
50 guys flagging down cars, harassing women, and peeing on sidewalks = cultural diversity
Couple of other things ShellyB,
How, exactly, did you neuter the Resolution? And of course you throw the word hatred around like you’ve ever actually seen it. You’d pee your wittle pants if you ever actually saw or came within a mile of real hatred.
So you consider illegally entering our country a Civil Right? How about drug use, or stealing? Raids wouldn’t be needed if all people entered the country legally!
Rick, do you think that it is ok to violate the civil rights of citizens, because of “50 guys flagging down cars, harassing women, and peeing on sidewalks = cultural diversity” I say arrest anyone that is breaking the law, but no way, no how, will I support the violation of the Bill of Rights to innocent people (who may also be immigrants) in the cross fire.
It is not “ok” that Guillen got detained.
But neither is it “ok” to stop or slow down these necessary raids for fear of a mistake. Mistakes do happen. This one is onerous, but this is a brutal world where horrible things happen, and what happened to Guillen is far from the end of the world.
I don’t want to see it used as an arguement that the raids should not happen.
It sucks that this guy got caught up in the ‘raid’, however, if he was detained for 3 days doesn’t that lead you to believe he is here illegally? I think this was a good thing and I wish they would do the same at the two 7-11’s on rt.1 near my house. They make an eye sore out of the area with the trash, beer bottles, gang graffiti and other crap they leave behind as well as the every day loitering. Is there a way to ask ICE to come to my 7-11’s?
He’s not here illegally apparantly.
Yoc CAN ask ICE to come to your local 7-11. Not that they necessarily will. But they can be contacted at http://www.ice.gov , and at 1-866-DHS-2ICE .
Rick Bentley
I thought you might have meant “ARIANS” ———-
Thanks for the info Rick… they currently do not accept email, from their site – “Emailed reports of suspicious activity or “tips” are not accepted at this time.”. Ill be calling them today.
Rick Bentley 12:34
You sound as if you want anarchy –
I’m sure you’d be the first to enlist as deputy so you could get your hands on some illegals!
A few dollars a head ~~~~~~~~~~~
There used to be a bounty on scalps at one time, although then it was the illegal aliens who tried to kill off the natives.
Liberty Wall Comes Down
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/liberty_street_wall_comes_down/30215/
I’m just really saddened to see how ugly Slow and Rick can be in response to a miscarriage of justice. Simply because the victim was Hispanic and was racially profiled because of it. Slowpoke “Rodriguez,” you ask me where I’ve seen hate? Why don’t you check your own fake moniker?
Both of you have been blinded by hate and hysteria. Rick, I understand that you have been very frustrated with neighbors who are Hispanic and may have been here illegally. But you’ve taken it too far if your genuine response to this story is, “Good, he deserved it for being Hispanic in the wrong place at the wrong time.”
We went through this already once with African Americans. Racially profiling was determined to be unconstitutional. And Slowpoke, if you want to know why your precious Immigration law was neutered, go look for the words “probable cause.” They’re gone. Meaning that an officer is NO LONGER SUPPOSED TO ARREST PEOPLE based on the notion that he or she looks like they might probably be illegal.
You and Rick and your attitude are the best reason why we couldn’t allow that language to stay in the law. The county would be sued for a bizzillion dollars. But just like your reaction to this story, you and several other crazies fought against this common sense change to your immigration law. Because to you, racial profiling is good as long as the person is Hispanic in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Most Americans disagree with you.
The raids can continue. If I end up in an ICE cell by mistake after going to 7-11, all my money and resources will be put into action. My liberty and civil rights are not to be stepped on by any authority. Rick you may not look Latino or dark skinned, but if you did, how would you like to spend three days in jail, while your wife is worry for you and your kid is in the hospital?
ShellyB, you have a beautiful and kind heart.
Rick, you ask,”if he was detained for 3 days doesn’t that lead you to believe he is here illegally?” No, and also realize that a detention is not an arrest. I’ve heard of people being detained for 10 days while their background is checked and people often do not carry their resident alien or green cards with them unless they are on their way for a job interview. In fact, it is suggested that they keep their documents in a safe place and not carry them on a daily basis. By law, people have the presumption of innocence. Put yourself in Guillen’s shoes and for goodness sake, get a heart.
ShellyB,
Couple of quick things.
You seem to be arguing against statements you placed in my mouth, and not what I said. That’s a naaaasty philosophical fallacy.
You seem to be celebrating a hollow victory on “neutering” the Resolution…and thinking it was because of moonbats like you and not economic issues is, well, your little hero delusion. You’re probably not that important, but if it makes you happy to think that, no problem. You’re probably right about the county being sued, sadly, the ACLU would be beating down the doors to sue, worthless group that they are. Most Americans disagree? On what do you base that? Obama’s election and the hundreds of socialists that rode in on his coattails? Because people don’t know any better than to vote for all one party? Most Americans are politically retarded, unfortunately…..which is why they get all upset when the morons they send to Washington screw them over so hard.
I think a mistake was made. That happens. My gripe is that it took 3 days to undo the mistake. Now that is dead wrong. There should be safety nets in place for people caught up in sweeps to extricate themselves.
Slow, the BOCS neutered their own Resolution. Can you name me one …errrr…toothy bite that it does? I think it is a paper tiger unless there is something in it that i am unaware of.
Rick, don’t get too excited about ICE stepping up enforcement. From the accompanying article in the Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/17/AR2009021703451.html
I never said he deserved it. I just said, don’t cry your eyes out over it. he still likes it much better here than in Honduras, presumably.
I don’t understand why it took 3 days either. I would guess that language was a factor.
Here’s what I said :
“Does he speak English? If not I feel zero sympathy for him.”
It is, I think, an okay message to send out that if you try to live in America and don’t speak English, bad things can happen. It’s too bad that he got detained, but given that he did, let’s get that message out there. I don’t know for certain that that is what happened here. I would welcome more details. Something tells me that CASA and the Post would have given us more details if they in any way erflected badly on ICE rather than on the individual.
“Is his son’s medical care being paid for by US taxpayers? If so on balance he’s making out quite nicely. ”
This is how I feel. It’s impolite but true.
“The officer made a mistake there, call it profiling or don’t but it’s hardly the end of the world.”
And so’s that. It’s wrong. Steps should be taken to prevent it happening again. But the much larger tragedy is illegal immigration and our government’s complicity in it. And we need raids. Lots more.
More than half those arrested were legal. So, what were they guilty of? loitering? hardly cause for a raid where innocent people are being swept up as well.
Rick here what you said:
“Does he speak English? If not I feel zero sympathy for him.”
There are Americans that have parents or relatives in other countries. Can you imagine if your father or grandfather from a non English speaking country came to visit you legally (this might surprise you Rick, but there are others that come here to visit Americans and some do not speak English) and he/she goes across to the 7-11 (He/She may not speak English) and ends up in “Wonderland of ICE”
There we go with our Constitution, rule of law and the Bill of Rights.
The Bill of Rights extends to non US citizens in US soil.
I see your arguement
But I think it is important that we provide discouragement for those who are coming here and not assimilating and degrading wages here while abandoning their own countries to robber barons
So while I don’t celebreate what happened to Guillen
Neither will I cry crocodile tears over a 3-day detention
Ah, Alana, you need to read the Post’s biased, bigoted, manipulative, and downright intellectually dishonest propoganda pieces more carefully. They left you with the impression that most of the guys netted were here legally. But what it actually states is that only 10 of 24 were “fugitive” aliens. Presumably there’s another 13 or so who were merely “illegal”. The Post doesn’t bother to clarify.
sorry I meant Alanna.
Rick, you have demonstrated that you are a reasonable person many times over, and I do understand that you still harbor resentments toward certain people because of the ethnicity of your former neighbors. That’s only natural. But don’t you see that it is clouding your perception in some unhealthy ways. That line about “if he didn’t speak English then I have no sympathy,” you seem to know that it was problematic.
Once you’ve drawn a line like that, you force yourself to take positions that aren’t really in your nature.
10 people had their civil rights taken away due to the fact that they are Hispanic. Even Greg Letiecq would stand up to oppose that.
Alanna, I have to agree with RIck on his last post, the article stated that 10 of 24 were “fugitive aliens”. It did NOT state that the other 14 were here legally. In fact, the article stated that 19 “were either deported or permitted to take “voluntary departure” which would indicate what Rick stated – that the others were in the country illegally but did not have any deportation paperwork pending – meaning the US government did not know there were in the Country at all.
Getting 10 fugitives out of 24 people is a high ratio. I would not want 10 fugitives hanging around anywhere, regardless of race, creed, sex or age. These 10 individuals were fugitives because they failed to appear for a court date they were notified of prior to their being released on a promise to appear. They had their chance. They walked away from it. Thus they paid the price of enforcement.
“That line about “if he didn’t speak English then I have no sympathy,” you seem to know that it was problematic. ”
I guess I have LIMITED sympathy.
“10 people had their civil rights taken away due to the fact that they are Hispanic. Even Greg Letiecq would stand up to oppose that.”
I think it’s just one guy, not 10.
So let me ask a question. In this case (and again, I can’t begin to tell you what poor timing this dude had), how is it racial profiling? If these agents have seen 5000 illegal immigrants, and 4999 all looked the same, did they really go out of their way to pick this dude based on his race? Seems like a reasonable assumption to me. Now pulling over a car because the driver’s black, yeah, I get that….but what was unreasonable about the assumption that this guy was part of the rest. It especially helped that the one guy ran into the coffee counter. And why didn’t the workers tell the ICE agents that “he’s not one of us”. Oh, I may know why, that would require an ounce of honor, something these swarming day-laborers and their employers know nothing about.
If those people were found to be “fugitives”, that means their names/birthdates etc. were entered into the ICE database (there are several ICE databases) and they were at one point in the custody of ICE and released under the old “catch and release” policy where they signed a promise to appear at a future court date. When they failed to appear, they were then listed as fugitives. That happens when you disregard the court system. Just like it would happen to anyone on this blog who failed to appear in court after being released on a signature.
If someone who looked like Laura Bush was in there getting coffee, would she have been detained too?
Yes, if she was hiding behind the coffee counter when ICE entered. That’s called a clue.
What if she were just standing there pouring herself a cup of coffee like that poor sucker in the video?
Well his companion, according to the article, was crouching down behind the coffee counter. That would tend to draw attention to that individual and those with him.
So yes, if Mrs. Bush was hiding behind the coffee counter and Mrs. Cheney was standing next to her pouring coffee, they both would attract attention.
The only problem is that the article does not say that anyone was “crouching down” behind the coffee counter. Neither does the video show anyone crouching down behind the coffee counter. And the guy in the blue coat wasn’t his companion.
The fact is that if someone was in that 7-11 who looked like Laura Bush, whether she was crouching down or standing in line buying Preparation H, she wouldn’t have been detained.