Real Estate Slump Hits Manassas, Va., Hard
NPR reports on the Manassas City real estate market where 10% of all homes have gone into foreclosure.
54 Thoughts to “NPR: Real Estate Slump Hits Manassas, Va., Hard”
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So according to you ShellyB the real estate slump in Manassas was caused by HSM? HSM caused all of the foreclosures in the area? It has nothing to do with so many of the people living in Manassas who work construction losing their jobs when the market crashed after the boom which brought so many to the area looking for work in the first place? There are several reasons for the slump, HSM would be at the bottom of the list in my opinion.
Too bad the story didn’t explain WHY we are the nation’s capital of home foreclosures. Hint: the OTHER capital is Maricopa County in Arizona where Sherrif Joe “proud to be KKK) Arpaio has created the anti-immigration police state we narrowly averted here.
95 percent of the homes sold in Manassas are bank sales, meaning home foreclosures. Houses that sold for $265,000 in 2006 are now selling for $60,000. Another one sold for $43,000.
It seems to me that there is a domino effect goimg here. Because once your house goes below a certain value, it makes sense to stop paying for a house if you owe more than it’s worth. So all those who celebrated all the Hispanic names on the foreclosure lists should STOP celebrating right about now. Those Hispanic families in 2007 were just the first few dominoes to fall.
I’m sure that a lot of people really believed they were going to “Help Save Manassas.” But look at what they did instead….
Surely the impending disaster was made worse by the actions of the County’s Board of Supervisors who was effectively ‘ambushed’ by the Help Save Manassas mob. To what extent in cost we will never fully know but the anti-immigrant sentiment in the area (whether it be City of Manassas or PWC) has had and will continue to have an effect on the community.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Help Save Manassas can not claim the resolution ‘worked’ by causing people to flee the community without also taking credit for a portion of the closely related catastrophe in the housing market.
ShellyB,
Great Observation about Maricopa County. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
It’s the economy stupid! Now where have I heard that before? It’s the ripple effect. HSM destroyed Manassas and now it’s destroying the entire nation. There you go, now you can stop blaming HSM. Next subject!
BTW, SecondAlam is my cousin. Guess I’ll have to shorten my name!
I think the actions of our BOCS took an inevitable situation and made it worse by enacting policies that were not thought through thoroughly.
HSM was only as effective as the local governments allowed it to be. Think about that one.
All counties have been affected, but ours is off the chart. Ours is a catastrophe that will haunt us for decades to come.
That can only be due to the resolution.
Alanna is totally correct. HSM cannot have it both ways.
SecondAlamo, looks like you are stuck with being SA or your cousin. Why don’t you hyphenate? It works for me. I will push you right through if you are on now. It looks like Alanna is on now also.
All we’ve said is this — in comparison to surrounding jurisdictions there appears to be something WORSE in Prince William and Manassas, that’s all. Would you like another comparison chart from George Mason Regional Analysis Center that shows us off the graph?
Here’s a very interesting take on the hypocrisy of using 287g to enforce one type of federal law at the local level against hispanics, while enforcing federal law at the local level against rich white people is never entertained. If we’re going to enforce federal law at the local level, let’s enforce them all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ElK648Lkqo&feature=channel_page
I’d love to see a regional graph, Alanna. Please post it. But the thing is, we are no longer a regional leader in home foreclosures. We are now a national leader.
Here are some links about Maricopa County, Arizona, our home foreclosure, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot-twice sister county:
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/02/09/daily59.html
http://www.realtytrac.com/states/Arizona.html
If you look at the foreclosure chart for Maricopa (this is total as opposed to the rate) and it really reminds you of Prince William County and Manassas. The foreclosure rate in Maricopa County dwarfs that of other counties in the state of Arizona.
So you have Sheriff Joe in Maricopa bragging about all the people he’s run out of town. You have Greg Letiecq and his groupies bragging about Hispanic names on foreclosure lists, and less “brown faces at the bus stop.” Okay. Brag all you want. But there are other things to consider as well, such as how this affects the rest of the county and the rest of Manassas. So if you want to brag about running people out of town, then accept that you get some heat for running people out of town.
Why are there partial red fences in various places in Sudley and Westgate? They look horrible! Is the county authorizing this mess?
Does anyone know what this is about? Someone told me HSM clean up team is doing it. I refuse to believe that.
I also heard that HSM was behind the JFK assassination, faked the moon landing, covered up the Roswell UFO crash and is the reason behind the big 3 in Detroit going bankrupt.
My hyphenated alter ego. I’m an American-American. Something unusual in this neck of the woods!
The news just covered how hard Fairfax County is hurting, and cutting services left and right. Gee, weren’t they the one thumbing their nose at us down here not too long ago. What goes around comes around. Don’t worry though I’m sure the ESOL classes will be fully funded.
Does anyone know what the actual foreclosure rate is in Manassas or PWC. The national average in the first quarter of 2008 was 1 out of every 194 for the first quarter. The top three states for foreclosures were:
Nevada – 1 out of every 54.
California – 1 out of every 78.
Arizona – 1 out of every 95.
Other states in the top 10 include Georgia, Michigan, Ohio, Massachusetts and Connecticut. No mention of VA… A few in the top 10 metro area’s in the country: Las Vegas, Detroit, Miami, Atlanta, Los Angeles. No mention of northern VA… As a matter of fact, just read this article which has all of the stats in it. I didn’t see any mention of VA or any place in VA. The foreclosure problems in VA are far from the worst in the nation, they don’t even crack the top 20 in any category (state, metro area, city – in the first quarter of 2008).
http://trendocracy.blogspot.com/2008/05/q1-2008-us-foreclosure-stats.html
Hello, as soon as Alanna posts the figures, we’ll get a good comparison for Nevada, California, and Arizona. It would be more fair to PWC to compare us to a county such as Maricopa which has had a similar rash of extreme racial tension infecting law enforcement and local government.
But the reason why Northern Virginia is not on the list is that as metropolitan regions go, we are doing rather well. That means “Help Save Mansassas” had to work extra hard to make us the foreclosure capital of the nation. All kidding aside, what’s happening in Manassas and PWC cannot be blamed on regional trends. That’s what is so alarming about those charts. We are just incredibly far ahead of the rest of the region, like off the charts, five times more ahead. Alanna, where are those graphs???
Hello,
Now don’t confuse these folks with unbiased facts. PWC is the center of the nation for some. It may seem that all is lost here, but obviously we aren’t nearly as bad off as other states. I just wonder where all these foreclosed people are moving.
ShellyB,
Relax, I’m sure Alanna will be able to create…..I mean find those charts soon!
THen SA, what you are saying is that all the “illegals” did NOT leave so we just wasted millions on a resolution? Which is it, they left or they stayed? @SecondAlamo
Let me explain what I meant above by “domino effect,” Hello.
Let’s say you have a row of 20 townhouses. After the Immigration Resolution passes, 5 of those houses are abandoned by people who just don’t want to be where they’re not welcome. The value of the other 15 houses, which are still occupied, goes down steadily for the next year, with 5 empty houses a big part of the reason why. So, another 5 families decide to stop paying their mortgage because the house is now worth less than the money they owe. They may as well let the bank foreclose on the house, and buy a new one with a new mortgage and pay a heck of a lot less money.
And, to make matters worse, they don’t buy one of the houses in the same row of 20. They buy one in another part of Virginia where housing prices are on their way back up.
Now Elena, shame on you! I mention foreclosed people, and you immediately equate them to illegals. Freudian slip wouldn’t you say! Your words, not mine.
So now you have 10 out of 20 units empty. The prices fall some more. And the people who stuck it out, how are they rewarded? Well when the prices fall to $50,000 or less, speculators scoop them up. So what does that do to the value of their house, which they bought for $250,000?
Hint: it isn’t pretty.
So they have two reasons to leave their 20-unit neighborhood. If the empty houses wasn’t bad enough, now they are being rented out to people with drug problems and domestic violence issues, and people who make a lot of noise and don’t take care of their yards. It gets tempting to take the easy way out like the last five families did.
Remember, the NPR story said %95 of home sales in Manassas are bank sales. That’s sales of homes that went into foreclosure.
That’s what we’re facing in Manassas, and in those parts of PWC that are closest to Manassas.
The rest of PWC is not doing as badly.
Hi ShellyB, I would have to disagree with you. I did a little research on Manassas and surrounding areas. I think when you look at the numbers there are very logical reasons why Manassas has a higher rate than surrounding places. You have to take a few things into consideration, median age, income and percentage of homes rented out. These are the numbers for Manassas and surrounding area’s:
Manassas: median age 31, median income $60,409, perct. rentals 28%.
Gainsville: median age 35, median income $76,309, perct. rentals 7%.
Centerville: median age 31, median income $71,232, perct. rentals 29%.
Dale City: median age 31, median income $65,355, perct. rentals 20%.
What these numbers show is that Manassas has THE lowest median income per household, has a relatively young median age and a high percentage of rental properties. From looking at these numbers alone I would have to say that Dale City isn’t far behind. So, when looking at why Manassas has such a high rate regionally why isn’t anyone looking a regional numbers instead of blaming it on Darth Vader (a.k.a. HSM). Some times HSM isn’t top reason behind every problem in Manassas. These numbers prove that, in my opinion.
The fact of the matter is that the Manassas foreclosure problem is due to the population being one of the youngest in the region, makes the least amount of money per household and 28% of those house holds are rental properties.
ShellyB,
“If the empty houses wasn’t bad enough, now they are being rented out to people with drug problems and domestic violence issues, and people who make a lot of noise and don’t take care of their yards.”
Now the folks here say that the above could have been handled by other means than the Resolution, so ask them how to deal with the problems you indicated. It’s those type problems, and the difficulty of addressing them, that helped lead to the creation of the Resolution. You see it was the people’s actions not their nationality that was the focus. Ask them how to proceed, as they have all the answers apparently.
I can expand the stats if need be but I feel they will fall along the same patter. Expanding out you will probably find higer income per house, an older median age and far less rental properties. Notice how not one stat involves race or immigration status…
Hello, what is your stake in HSM? You are mighty defensive. HSM through its own admission has bragged of their success in getting the Immigration Resolution passed and in getting illegals to leave. They also bragged about how many fewer ESOL students left and went to Fairfax and Arlington.
Are you saying that organization lies about its accomplishments as it defines them?
No stake in HSM what so ever, not a member and have never been to a meeting. I’m just getting tired of all of the problems and issues being solely put on HSM, the resolution, Corey Stewart, etc… When ever something is wrong people too easily just jump directly to it’s all Cory’s fault or it’s because the resolution or HSM did it with mostly just hearsay and personal opinion as evidence. I’m sure some things could be pinned on one of the typical ‘number 1 reasons why’ but until you provide hard evidence of that then I’m going to be skeptical. I think everyone should be, just don’t take someones word for it, look at it yourself from different angles and come up with your own view.
Also ShellyB, you stated “95 percent of the homes sold in Manassas are bank sales, meaning home foreclosures. Houses that sold for $265,000 in 2006 are now selling for $60,000. Another one sold for $43,000.”
I wonder how many of those 95% were rental properties and out of those how many did the renters damage and/or destroy before leaving making the resale value even worse. Have you seen any of these ‘bank sales’ yourself? For the most part they are now fixer-uppers to say the least with people stripping them and/or just busting them up before leaving.
Welcome to your new form Second-Alamo. Note the hyphen. Sorry I didn’t get you through sooner. I got side tracked by the news. But you are here now.
Hello, I don’t think anyone is saying there is a single reason for Manassas/PW foreclosures. I do think things have been made worse in this area by policy enacted by elected officials. How much worse? No one will ever be able to tell.
I am still trying to figure out where all the people went. I see the vacant houses but traffic seems the same and the school enrollments have gone up slightly, according to info released. It makes no sense to me.
Hello, I have seen those fences too. There are some off of Lomond near Westgate Apts and some off of Sudley Manor drive, coming down from the Barn. I am trying to figure out why this seems to be the new style in these neighborhoods. The fences look like the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre. Good grief! No one I have talked to seems to know what they mean.
@Moon-howler
Sorry, but there are many on here that just jump at the chance to lay the blame on the resolution/BOCS/etc.
Another reason why the Manassas area has been hit hardest by the foreclosure crisis is the timing of the housing boom in PWC. Unfortunately, but not coincidentally, it coincided with a period of widespread corruption in the banking and financial systems. One practice in particular, in which banks packaged fraudulent mortgages and sold them to wealthy investors around the globe, was most responsible for the global economic meltdown we are facing. Remember when the Fed kept dropping interest rates over and over again? That caused the world’s pool of money to lose its traditional appetite for treasury bonds and become entrapped in this unholy mortgage packaging racket. This unchecked frenzy of greed led to increased demand for fraudulent mortgages, which led to more buyers entering the market, which led to artificially inflated home prices, which led to increased demand for new homes to be built, which caused Prince William County to approve too many new housing developments.
New immigrants were drawn to PWC because things were booming. Many of them built the very homes that were driving that boom. Those people had to live somewhere, and what was available? The older housing divisions where families were cashing in on the inflated value of homes they thought they’d keep forever, selling, and moving into bigger and newer homes. The neighborhoods left behind saw a rapid turnover where many of the new residents were Hispanic. This upset some of the longtime residents who had long believed that suburbia meant an escape from darker skinned people who are struggling financially. The resulting anger, and frankly fear, created the opportunity for an organization like Help Save Manassas to take advantage politically, and you all know the rest.
Now, all those fraudulent mortgages were destined to default, thus the national downturn in the housing market was inevitable. But there is no question the Immigration Resolution made matters worse. It hurt the local economy and the housing market at a time when we could not afford to weaken our economic competitiveness. There is less to go around now, and we are losing out to surrounding jurisdictions.
The BOCS should not get all the blame, nor should HSM. HSM was doing their job in advocating for what they wanted. The BOCS was doing their job by listening to those who advocated the loudest and most effectively. If we had known how bad the economy was going to get, we might have had different priorities. If we had known the Immigration Resolution was written by a Washington DC anti-immigration lobbying firm without regard for the economic future of Prince William County, we might have chosen to go a different direction. But we didn’t have that information. Or, if anyone did, they were not listened to.
WHWN,
First, you’re going to have to use some hyphens or forever be known as WHW. Second, how exactly do you thing PWC would look in terms of foreclosures if the Resolution hadn’t been enacted. You’re telling me that the people who left wouldn’t have eventually faced foreclosure due to the economic downturn? Remember, the economy wasn’t in dire straights back then. I would think that most who left because of the Resolution were either renters, or hand a less than stellar criminal history and were afraid of being discovered. The remainder may or may not have faced foreclosure.
oops “do you think PWC”
@A PW County Resident
I don’t think we live in a vacuum. The things that have hit the rest of the country have hit us. The question that remains unanswerable: How would things be different if the Immigration Resolution had not been enacted? No one will ever be able to answer that. I personally believe the entire thing was a paper tiger with no teeth. However, I do not know how others perceived it.
2nd Alamo, thanks for spreading the hyphen word.
SecondAlamo,
First off, did the resolution work or not?
If it worked, then any suggestion that it didn’t have an affect on our housing market is absolutely absurd.
You can’t say, the resolution was a good thing and people left without attributing a portion of the housing market to that fact. Nobody has suggested it caused the entire collapse, what we’ve said is that it has been a contributing factor in Prince William County’s numbers being double, or ten times worse than surrounding counties.
Too bad the Board of Supervisor’s doesn’t have any money to do a cost benefit analysis like they did back in better economic times. Remember the one that attributed the $3 million dollars to the ‘illegals’. Where is Federation for American Immigration Reform now? They’ve left us in a hole and have probably moved on to some other unsuspecting jurisdiction.
Alanna,
Do you think SA will answer your question, or mine for that matter?! DId the resolution work or not, that’s all I want to know! 🙂 @Alanna
So Alanna, are you saying that the resolution worked and illegal immigrants leaving PWC is the main contributing factor for the high foreclosure rate?
Also, you state that the PWC foreclosure rate is ten times worse than surrounding counties. Do you happen to have any figures to back that up? If so I would like to see them so that I can take a look at a few neighboring county’s make-up to see what else may be behind them having ‘ten times’ fewer foreclosures.
Hello, I don’t have the figures at my fingertips but the county showed slides of neighboring county foreclosures and we were way ahead of them…..left them standing in the dust. You might be able to find them on the county website since it was part of a BOCS meeting.
I also believe Alanna might have done a thread about it.
Hello, here you go…best I can do on short notice: It isn’t eactly 10 times but it is getting way close.
http://www.antibvbl.net/index.php/2008/10/29/foreclosure-phenomenon-in-prince-william-county/
Um, by that chart it is just 3 times that of Fairfax – the only neighboring county on that chart. That is not close to 10 times. If you compare Fairfax to Arlington it is 4 times that of Arlington. So all this talk of “10 times” is just that. Would be nice to not see so much unfounded exaggeration.
And since Fairfax County and Montgomery County often compete with each other and are compared to each other, I’m curious why no one has asked why Fairfax’s rate is 4.5 times Montgomery’s rate!
One final thing – the difference between Fairfax and Manassas actually decreased between April and September. How come no one has asked why that is? Also between April and September, Fairfax’s rate increased by 50%. During the same time PWC’s rate increased by 20%. Fairfax will eventually catch up if the trend continues.
Hi Moon and Alanna, I would have to agree with GR… From taking a quick look at the chart you referenced on short notice (even though I asked over two days ago for said data) the ‘ten times’ worse claim is just rhetoric so far in my eyes that is dishonest without anything to back it up. If your going to make such a bold claim then show me the numbers to back it up, this chart fails to do that. If you look at the data I provided in previous posts some of the top 10 cities in the nation with the worst foreclosure rate are ‘santuary’ cities. Cities in which their police are forbiden from looking into or even asking immigration status.
by the way, Fairfax has the following compared to Manassas:
Fairfax: median age 36, median income $67,642, perct. rentals 28%.
Manassas: median age 31, median income $60,409, perct. rentals 28%.
With an older median age and much higher median per house income there is no wonder their foreclosure rate is 3 to 4 times lower. As for the rental properties, the average rental in Manassas is $707 and Fairfax’s is $878. Manassas’s rental rate would be much easier for people in the construction sector to rent than Fairfax (not to mention the logistics of where those jobs are). When those jobs dried up the renters moved out and nobody moved in. It’s just plain logic, so far no boogy man in the numbers. Again, please show me some numbers that support your ‘ten times worse’ claim and Ill be happy to look at it.
hello,
did the resolution work or not?
and isn’t Fairfax one of those ‘sanctuary cities’?