73 Thoughts to “New Americans Okay with Legalization of Undocumented”

  1. Elena

    Interesting piece. Pragmatism seemed to be the overriding suggestion for dealing with immigration issues.

  2. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Rasmussen, March 17, 2009.

    73% of Americans believe Cops should check immigration status of anyone pulled over.
    67% of Americans believe that Cops should do more to clear out day laborer sites, arresting illegals and sending them for deportation.

    Not sure why it matters if an American is new or old, Americans are Americans.

  3. Moon-howler

    Slow, how much of this sentiment is because of 9/11? I certainly have had more vigilant thoughts about such matters since then. It has nothing to do with day laborer sites, but about people here to plot to do us harm. I guess I am saying sleeper cells.

  4. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Rasmussen, March 19, 2009.

    68% of Arizona voters side with Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

    What else we got here……

    68% believe companies that hire illegals should be punished.
    74% believe the nation is not doing enough to secure our borders.

    and Nancy “one more facelift, please” Pelosi thinks immigration raids are “UnAmerican”

  5. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    @Moon-howler

    Right or Wrong, and unfortunately, my guess is that most Americans have put 9/11 in the back of their minds. If it was still a problem for Americans, no way Obama gets in office.

  6. ShellyB

    Slow-slow, any hate organization can post any “statistics” they choose. It’s a very basic strategy. Post misleading “statistics,” wait for ignorant people to find them, accept them as accept as gospel, regurgitate, and repeat. It’s getting old.

    We tried racial profiling on for size in Prince William County and it didn’t work out so well for us. Our crime rate went UP. Our economy went down. Our housing market went WAY down. And it could have been worse, even, if not for the fact that at least 5 members of BOCS are capable of ignoring people like you.

    The margin is even greater in Congress. Get used to the fact: propaganda is not enough to overrule a democracy.

  7. “The margin is even greater in Congress. Get used to the fact: propaganda is not enough to overrule a democracy.”

    Actually it is Shelly…you’re buying into the “party line,” aren’t you? The fact is (and you can mark my words on this), we are rapidly heading into being an oligarchy rather than a representative democracy.

  8. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Rasmussen is a hate organization now. OK, Shelly. I would have to say that post of yours is the one I’d like to see on your CV. I think it really captures you, your views, and your abilities. Overall, a very accurate representation.

  9. Starryflights

    Slowpoke Rodriguez :Rasmussen, March 19, 2009.
    68% of Arizona voters side with Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
    What else we got here……
    68% believe companies that hire illegals should be punished.74% believe the nation is not doing enough to secure our borders.
    and Nancy “one more facelift, please” Pelosi thinks immigration raids are “UnAmerican”

    Well, to borrow a quote from our ex-Vice President:

    SOOOOOOOOOOOOO???

  10. YankeeForever

    The title of this thread is misleading. What I saw was this:

    1 individual and her husband who felt it depended on circumstances, but were definitely not unequivocally in favor of blanket legalization.

    1 individual who seemed to support legalization but believed in controls

    1 individual who stated from the beginning that he didn’t “know enough about this issue” but vaguely expressed that “there should be a procedure.”

    Three people with evidently mixed feelings and understanding about the issue doesn’t seem to constitute mass support for legalization.

  11. YankeeForever :
    The title of this thread is misleading. What I saw was this:
    1 individual and her husband who felt it depended on circumstances, but were definitely not unequivocally in favor of blanket legalization.
    1 individual who seemed to support legalization but believed in controls
    1 individual who stated from the beginning that he didn’t “know enough about this issue” but vaguely expressed that “there should be a procedure.”
    Three people with evidently mixed feelings and understanding about the issue doesn’t seem to constitute mass support for legalization.

    Anecdotal, like the premise for the resolution.

  12. ShellyB

    My point is that “statistics” are nothing more than numbers people use to argue their case. You you have a “case” to argue, Slow-slow. And you have some kindred spirits in Arizona, where large sections are infected by fear and hate, one of the markers of Sheriff Joe’s frighteningly unamerican tactics. He will be brought to justice. And no America’s democracy is not in danger of being overtaken by anti-immigrant and/or ignorant people. We have protections in place to prevent that. Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.

    Notice how Slow-slow has to rely on Arizonans for “statistics” that indicate widespread fear and hate. Wasn’t Prince William County supposed to be the shining example of anti-immigrant hysteria? Guess not anymore. That’s the direction Arizona is going to. The hate wave is dying, Slow-slow. One day, it will be you and only you.

  13. A PW County Resident

    Shelly, I went to the Rasmussen page to see how you and Slow are in disagreement. Actually, the only thing that involved Arizona respondents was the one about the sheriff. The rest were national numbers. I think your post sounded (perhaps unintentionally) like you were branding Rasmussen as a hate organization? Or was it just people in the state of Arizona?

    I don’t know much about this sheriff but I would myself probably not be branding the people of a state because they have an opinion. Besides, Slow used one statistic that was Arizona (as far as I can tell) and you have discounted his entire post because of one statistic.

    I guess I should just chalk this up to some history between you two?

    Do we discount all “statistics” or just those that we disagree with?

  14. Alanna

    Yankee Forever,
    I think, I mainly took the title from the news article minus the word ‘Some’.

    And to everyone else but especially those freaking out over reports on BVBL about halting immigration raids. Listen, the election of Barack Obama obviously was not what everybody wanted, however it was what the majority wanted. He campaigned on an comprehensive immigration reform platform as did John McCain. Now, some on BVBL are proclaiming it’s ‘the destruction of the country as we know it’? Really? Because I heard that after Clinton was elected, and George W, both times but especially around the 2004 election with many Democrats proclaiming they would ‘move to Canada’ instead of enduring another 4 years under Bush.

    I suppose, it’s a case of “fight or flight syndrome”, the Dems suggested leaving the country but these supposed “Rule of Law” people talk about arming themselves with guns and ammo to “kill illegals” because we are only a step away from “anarchy”. Sounds to me like the “Rule of Law” is not really something they live by but rather an excuse used to support their position. And when they don’t get what they want, then, well, obviously it’s “anarchy”.

    There are some valid concerns on both sides of this issue and common ground will have to be reached. Is that so hard to accept? Not everybody will stay, and not everybody will be deported. I’d suggest focusing on the items that both sides have in common including border security, employment verification, etc… and learn to accept that an ‘enforcement’ only policy is not going to happen. In my opinion, there will be a pathway to legalization. Fight it or accept it. Just don’t threaten violence or anarchy or retaliation if you don’t get exactly what you want. Okay?

  15. TWINAD

    Thanks for the sane, rational voice, Alanna. I read those guns and ammo/anarchy comments as well. Very disturbing.

  16. A PW County Resident

    Alanna, I agree with the balance contained in your post and I have not pursued arming myself waiting for some Armagheddon (sp?). I especially like the reference to “common ground” as I believe that is what my initial posts were about on here when I suggested a “solutions” section. That the time for debate of the emotions of the whole issue should give way to finding out what all the sides really want. It is the first step in compromise.

    I would, however, be remiss in characterizing our President’s election as “most wanted.” I personally think that a great number of people who voted for him were voting against President Bush. That doesn’t mean that they “wanted” the President but rather they didn’t want someone from the same party as the last 8 years.

  17. Alanna

    A PW County Resident,
    He won the election by a fair margin especially in consideration of how close other recent elections have been. Mind you, he did not get my vote.

  18. You Wish

    ShellyB :
    Slow-slow, any hate organization can post any “statistics” they choose. It’s a very basic strategy. Post misleading “statistics,” wait for ignorant people to find them, accept them as accept as gospel, regurgitate, and repeat. It’s getting old.
    We tried racial profiling on for size in Prince William County and it didn’t work out so well for us. Our crime rate went UP. Our economy went down. Our housing market went WAY down. And it could have been worse, even, if not for the fact that at least 5 members of BOCS are capable of ignoring people like you.
    The margin is even greater in Congress. Get used to the fact: propaganda is not enough to overrule a democracy.

    Pretty nasty post Shelly. Where is your documentation that Rasmussen is a hate group? You seem to fall in the category of “you’re with me or you’re against me” – either you believe in what I believe in or I’ll belittle you.

  19. You Wish

    Well, that link didn’t work 🙂 Maybe this one will http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/most_recent_videos

  20. A PW County Resident

    Alanna :A PW County Resident,He won the election by a fair margin especially in consideration of how close other recent elections have been. Mind you, he did not get my vote.

    @Alanna

    I agree with you that he won by a good enough vote that people should not question whether someone “stole” an election like we had to hear ad nauseam for 8 years, but my only point was I don’t know how many people wanted him versus not wanting someone else. After President Bush’s popularity, I am not sure a saint could have been elected as a republican–I know folks, it couldn’t happen cause there are no republicans that are saints. By the way, although fiscally conservative, I am politically an independent–maybe I should start a new group called the “blue dog independents”.

  21. Moon-howler

    APWCResident, There were 2 choices. McCain or Obama. From what I could tell, Republicans turned on McCain. Now I don’t know what they did behind the curtain but their pre-election day rhetoric was enough to turn off many an independent voter.

    Obama won that election fair and square. He wasn’t my first choice either but that ship sailed back in the primaries. I am not going to sit around and bitch, piss, and moan over not having my candidate even run. Obama is president and he won by majority vote. I don’t really care why people voted for him. They obviously did. He’s in.

  22. Moon-howler

    Alanna, as usual, you are the voice of reason. I hope everyone read what you have said carefully, including the part about your vote. I think you have been more than fair in your assessment.

    For those threatening violence, I find it most hypocritical that those screaming rule of law the loudest are threatening vigilantee behavior. I would imagine that the heavily trafficked blogs are monitored fairly heavily by the FBI. So the big mouths behind the computer screens might want to be careful about what they wish for.

  23. A PW County Resident

    Moon-howler :APWCResident, There were 2 choices. McCain or Obama. From what I could tell, Republicans turned on McCain. Now I don’t know what they did behind the curtain but their pre-election day rhetoric was enough to turn off many an independent voter.
    Obama won that election fair and square. He wasn’t my first choice either but that ship sailed back in the primaries. I am not going to sit around and bitch, piss, and moan over not having my candidate even run. Obama is president and he won by majority vote. I don’t really care why people voted for him. They obviously did. He’s in.

    I hope you didn’t think I was saying anything differently. He is my President, like George Bush before him and every other president. I may support him because he is the President but it doesn’t mean that I have to agree with him either. I was not casting aspersions about his legitimacy for being the President as the majority for whatever each person’s motivation cast a vote for him. I also did not agree with what Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney did either but they were still the President/Vice President, deserving of the respect they did not get as elected to the same office.

  24. michael

    Moonhowler, much of the sentiment to deport illegal immigrants rather than give them a green card through grandfathered legislation is the realization and the magnitude of the fraud they have caused, the damage to our economy they have caused and the HUGE impact to the gangs and criminals involved in the border Drug Wars.

    We are not talking about “legal” immigrants, we are talking about “illegal” immigrants.

    There are now some 12-15 MILLION of them, and the contribution they make to ever growing drug activity in the towns through the US they have settled in, is escalating to uncontrollable levels. These town, form the HUBS for new drug traffiking, sales and transportation of ARMS back to Mexico (As a result of our lax background checks), and contribute to the inability of local policemen to penetrate the ethnic centric protectionism allowing these drug cartels to operate widely and without restriction in thes “illegal” immigration communities. You have only to open your eyes to see the drop in poverty level an increase in “illegal” immigrant growth causes in every community they move into, but the far more insidious danger is the behind the scenes private networks of ethnic centric communications channels and illicit trade channels that has significantly escalated drug activity and drug warfare in every community they exist in.

    THis is a huge problem America must eliminate, and the only way to do it is to eliminate the “illegal” immigration activity that supports it.

    President OBAMA himself (God love him) has stated just yesterday, that we need to crack down on the border, go after the drug trade more intensely, go after the people hiring “illegal” immigrants and create a mechanism to identify every person in the US as authorized or not authorized, legal and “illegal” that is in this country. I knew this when I voted for him, because McCain did not share that political position (he catered to the minority vote, and it bit him).

  25. michael

    Arizonians have been dealing with an “illegal” immigrant fueled drug war since 2004…that is why they support arapio, and support arresting people that are shooting at everyone near the borders, especially in Phoenix, the new drug route.

    If “illegals” where shooting people dead in your neighborhood, there is no way you would be advocating for “amnesty” or forgiveness for the “undocumented”, a political word for “illegal” alien.

    All of you operate on the naive assumption that “illegals” are all good people, deserving of sympathy. You also naively assume with you desire to forgive the “undocumented” or “illegal alien” that no human is capable of hurting another or of committing crime that destroys the lives of millions of innocent Americans.

  26. michael

    When you do things like leave out the word “some” Alanna, you distort the truth.

  27. michael

    And I should say that “some” of you are naive, my apologies to others who agree we need to stop the “illegal” immigration problem if we are to also stop the drug problem, they are too intertwined.

  28. michael

    The drug war is subsiding only in those communities where the rule of law prevails. In mexico, the rule of law does not prevail, and while Mexican leaders in Mexico City, reach out to local police and mayors to help them stop the inhumane slaughter of thousands of innocents, and eliminate the drug cartels, no one is listening that lives south of the border, and the rule of law is ignored, just like many of you advocate here. If you want to understand the problem better, go to Mexico, or El Salvadore, or any of the other nations whose people are migrating in the millions to the US, and you will understand why they have no law, and why they do not care about the law.

    When you come back I think you will change your position about “illegal” immigrants and their relation to the drug trade explosion in the US.

  29. michael

    You have to remember, there will be prosecution by the Justice department for the illegal activities committed by “illegal” immigrants in the mortgage fraud, and collapse of the sub-prime market (50% of the sub-prime loans defaulted, some 4.5 million foreclosures, caused in large part by the “illegal” immigrant community, and the some 35 million formerly “illegal” immigrants who have led the political ethnic centric wars to have only their own ethnic group receive HUD and 8A benefits. It backfired on them, collapsed the bank’s asset’s, invoked the derivatives that could not pay 50% of the failed mortgage lenders off (Some 20 billion dollars of TARP 1, 2, 3 and 4 money has gone to bail out foreign investors and foreign banks).

    The America public is FURIOUS and will be holding “illegal” immigrants and people who defrauded the rest of us on the mortgage applications with HUD 8A, Fannie, Mae and Freddie Mac, accountable legally and financially (they will pay penalties and have assets surrendered where they made profit off of it and where possible sent to jail for such crimes that collapse a global economy. The people also demand the CEOs and managers at all levels in these transactions be held legally accountable, and where they made profits off of the mortgages and derivatives, their assets will be surrendered, the money recovered, and they will be sent to jail by the Justice Department as well. This is not over by a long shot and the American public is demanding Justice. Congress and the President are LISTENING.

  30. Jake the Snake

    How vile is this one: snagged from the Inside nova story about the 10 lbs of cocaine in Woodbridge.

    I am sure this person will try to tell us he is not prejudiced. Yea Right!

    Posted by ( cobra ) on March 20, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Hey Nancy Lyall, these roach’s part of your Woodbridge Workers Coalition or Mexicans without Laws? Let the spin begin. Man I would like to know who employed these rats? Maybe I can get Barney Frank to subpoena that information for me. Heard they purchased the refrigerator from Supervisor Nohe to store all the drugs in. (LOL). Corey Stewart is looking better each day. Liberals Suck!!

    Report Inappropriate Comment

    Roaches, rats, liberals, Nancy and Marty. What a sweep. Sounds like the LOL king is on the move again.

  31. michael

    After we clean up this “illegal” and formerly “illegal” immigration mess of sub-prime mortgage defaults anf fraudulent activity, the act that prohibits corporations from developing business outside of their stated critical public and private civil function (Gorman something act, that was removed in 1984 or so.), will be re-instated, The Sherman anti-trust act that was used against JP Morgan and Rockefellar and others that were TOO BIG, will be invoked to break up AIG business units, and other companies (Bear Sterns, Goldman, JP Morgan Chase (again), etc), that are TOO BIG TO FAIL. This must occur (and Geithner agrees with Bernanke on this, even Poulson admitted he was WAY WRONG), So that smaller less critical and more easily regulated entities can grow and take their place in a RULE BASED FREE MARKET rather than a train wreck waiting to happen free market.

  32. michael

    There are stupid people on both sides, Jake. The problem is the rest of us need to take appropriate RATIONALE action to clean up this “illegal” immigrant mess or it and the consequences of it will just get worse rather than better. If you think drugs and crime are bad now in the cities that harbor 12-15 MILLION “illegal” immigrants, wait until that number becomes 30 MILLION, and see what kind of standard of living and level of drug trafficking and crime exists in those cities and counties of the future. If you love your community, you will stop it now, and REVERSE it before it gets far worse. When the rule of law fails, you have the intractable problems that all third world countries deal with on a massive unprecedented scale.

  33. Jorge

    Well dang-it, I immigrated legally and it took forever and cost lots of money, don’t I look like a fool now, I could have just take the easy route via illegal immigration and then played on the sympathies of Americans. I sure did waste a lot of time doing it the right way.

  34. Alanna

    michael,
    5% of the population is not responsible for our financial woes. We just exited one of the best economic financial cycles and guess what THE UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE were here then too. You are scapegoating plain and simple.

  35. T Rex

    There’s an entire generation of kids without hope, perhaps that has something to do with the gang problem?

  36. Has anyone ever said gangs are okay? Has anyone said violent criminals are okay? Drugs? I don’t think so.

    There’s a difference between immigrants (documented and otherwise) and gang members.

    When there is no distinction made, then yes, it’s scapegoating, generalizing and fundamentally illogical.

  37. Happenings on BVBL

    “Letiecq’s Lunatics” are at it again. Now there saying Alanna is an ‘exagerator’ because she didn’t use the word – “some” in the title of this post.

    I give Alanna, Elena and Moonhowler a lot of credit for standing up against these people. The bunch of them appear unstable as evident in their rantings over the last few days. Will they become unhinged if there’s Comprehensive Immigration Reform?

  38. TWINAD

    Happening on BVBL:

    I second you! It is hard to believe the type of people posting on BVBL live among us. It’s like they belong in a different era.

  39. Poor Richard

    Today’s WaPo (B7 – On Faith) has an article on the
    “Universal Life Church” that notes the late founder,Kirby Hensley,
    ran for president in 1968 on a platform that included
    “civil treatment for visitors from other worlds”. Does this make
    him the first “illegal alien apologist”?

  40. Second-Alamo

    So 10 pounds of cocaine discovered in Woodbridge, and the only comment is about a poster who was commenting on the people in charge of the area, or the people who support the illegal immigrant population from whence these drug dealers came. The COMMENT is what upsets you, and not the discovery of hard DRUGS in your neighborhood? Someone needs to get their priorities straight!

  41. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    @Happenings on BVBL
    Unstable? Have you SEEN Mackie’s postings? Have you SEEN ShellyB’s postings? It appears you have a hard time recognizing instability.

  42. ShellyB

    I agree with Twin and Happenings. Kudos to Alanna and Elena.

    It really takes a lot of courage to stand up to people like Greg Letiecq and his followers who are so frighteningly hateful. I can’t imagine what it must have been like for them when people were making threats, posting their addresses on line, and talking about violence in response to the neutering of the Immigration Resolution. Just scary.

    The hate out there makes you want to not go to Citizens Time and just hope someone else will. I wonder if that was the plan in encouraging people to be so openly hateful on Gospel Blog and at Citizens Time. Just a guess, but the hate displays might have been a smoke screen to discourage dissent. Luckily there were some brave ones among us.

  43. ShellyB

    Slowpoke, you aren’t winning any points with a racist moniker. Everything you post is either ignored or read with the thought, “this is how racists see this world.”

    You don’t like me, okay. But I’m still going to have to call you out when you say something really disgusting. Sorry about that.

  44. ShellyB

    For those folks who are hoping America will blame immigrants for the economic crisis, I have to say, I think that sort of propaganda is better left to TV and radio. Because the people who are gullible enough to think immigrants caused the rampant greed and fraud on Wall Street are also too dumb to read. Even Rush Limbaugh isn’t trying to convince the ditto heads of that. If the ditto heads can’t be fooled, almost no one will.

  45. Jake the Snake

    SA, I don’t like anyone selling 10 pounds of cocaine. I also don’t recall reading that those 2 were illegal immigrants. Selling cocaine is selling cocaine. It is a felony. It also isn’t unique to the Manassas or Woodbridge area. Drugs are sold all over the place, I am sorry to say.

  46. Second-Alamo

    ShellyB,

    It amazes me that you label nearly everyone hateful when you come off sounding like the most vocal bearer of hate there is. If someone doesn’t agree with you, then you turn on the verbal bashing as if you actually ‘hate’ those who disagree with you. You need to back off on the one on one hate speech yourself if you want others to be more reasonable in their posts. Just a thought.

  47. Elena

    The moniker of “slowpoke rodriguez” is no different from someone posting as “greedy goldberg”. We all know its an insult to a whole group of people. I find it difficult to respond to Slow, as to do so, in my mind, gives his racist moniker credibility.@ShellyB

  48. Elena

    SA,

    I’m not sure what evidence you are pointing to here. Are you suggesting that by pointing out negative generalizations of one group of people is hateful? Shelly, in my opinion, posts very indepth and thoughtful statements.@Second-Alamo

  49. ShellyB

    Alamo, I think your name is also a problem because it implies you want there to be a war here. But in response to your fierce defense of Gospel Greg, go ahead and defend him. That says more about you than the moniker you chose (which is the only thing we know for sure about you).

    As for your desire to paint me in the same light as most people see you and your Gospel Greg, go ahead and do that too. I don’t really “hate” racism and threats of violence. But both things do scare me. A lot. I might not be brave enough to go to Citizens Time or use my real name to stand up to racism. Like you I hide behind a moniker. But unlike you, I didn’t choose a frightening, aggressive, or offensive moniker. And I don’t try to blame everything bad that happens on immigrants. Alanna is right: that’s called scapegoating. And when it is done systematically, incessantly, and targeted exclusively at one minority group, it can lead to some very, very frightening developments.

    Your comments are part of something truly scary, Alamo. Your attemps to intimidate me and others who say so will not do any good. They only remind us that the aggressive tactics you are part of can be directed at anyone who dares to disagree with you. Not just the original targets of your slander. That’s why it is so important that we stand up to this kind of thing. Hate spreads.

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