What is the Dream Act?
The Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act (also called “The DREAM Act”) was a piece of proposed federal legislation in the United States that would provide certain immigrant students who graduate from an American High School, are of good moral character, arrived in the US as children, and have been in the country continuously for at least five years prior to the bill’s enactment, the opportunity to earn conditional permanent residency. The students will obtain temporary residency for a lapse of six years. Within the six year period, a qualified student must attend college, and earn a two year degree, or serve in the military for two years in order to earn citizenship after the six years period. If student does not comply with either his/her college requirement or military service requirement, temporary residency will be taken away and student will be subjected to deportation.
Getting word that the Dream Act will be reintroduced shortly. The passage of this legislation never looked as promising as it does now. Please consider offering your support.
More information –
http://dreamact2009.com/
http://www.change.org/ideas/932/view_action/ask_your_congressperson_to_support_the_dream_act
This is good legislation – it rewards hard work and merit.
The act is a win-win for impacted individuals AND for America’s future.
May the best and brightest always be welcomed here.
Sounds like a productive plan to me.
Let’s beat this down now, and send this corrupt President and this corrupt Congress a clear message. Let’s raise hell!
This act is all about ensuring that a seperate set of rules exists in America for illegal immigrants and their children. They can’t compete on a level playing field with the rules as currently defined. They can’t be expected to pay taxes or be accountable to our laws.
So, unlike the millions of citizens’ children who are hamstruing by their parents’ inability to help them, in this case we will create a special set of rules because those whose parents don’t speak English are presumed “disadvantaged” and need special help.
It’s all part and parcel of having two Americas and of turning our laws into a complete joke.
Press 1 for English and regular laws. And don’t forget to fill out your tax forms.
Press 2 for Spanish. Taxes and rules are optional.
Press 3 if you have been accused of molesting a child and would like to have a lawyer from CASA represent you.
Press 4 if you’re mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.
“If student does not comply with either his/her college requirement or military service requirement, temporary residency will be taken away and student will be subjected to deportation.”
Yeah right. You have to be born yesterday to believe that.
Hey do these kids register for Selective Service the way American kids have to? Or is that yet another law where we have two sets of rules.
The Dream Act only gives access to college for academically deserving kids. It does not give them scholarships. I would prefer to reward good students with opportunity. Rick, you are positively obsessed with status.
Would you prefer to keep people beaten down and poor or would you rather give those who deserve to continue their education an opportunity to pull themselves up by their boot straps. I could understand being opposed if it in any way took something away from you. It doesn.t.
Rick,
What are you suggesting, that children brought here by their parents, growing knowing this as their country should be denied access to higher education, the ability to contribute fully ? On one hand people like you complain about these children growing up to take away low wage jobs from Americans or join gangs and yet when these children, having shown a desire to do well are offered an opportunity, you would deny them. I don’t get it, I really don’t. What ,in G-ds name, do these kids have to do with child molestors?! Let me answer that redundent question for you…..NOTHING!
Moon-Howler, while I have asked the question of myself and others of what do we do with these children, they are here and right now they are not going anywhere, so do we want a group of uneducated people growing to adulthood? My answer is no, but here are two aspects of the Dream Act that concern me: Right now, they withhold my support of the act.
1. College class sizes are limited (just call NOVA or George Mason and ask) so if an illegal/undocumented person takes a seat by registering for class, does your or my citizen child NOT get that class? I don’t think that’s right. Are they competing for limited resources? Citizen’s first is the duty of our society.
2. By becoming a citizen after completing the requirements, does this individual now have the ability (as citizen’s do) to sponser family relatives to become citizens, including their illegal parents and siblings? If so, its a backdoor amnesty in that regard and without immigration reform, is a reward for those who have not earned it.
No one should be obligated to register for selective service.
There are few things more immoral than conscription.
1. The cream of the crop should be rewarded. If there is demand, the free market will provide the supply…so long as the government doesn’t interfere.
2. There’s no such thing as amnesty since they committed no crime. You need to have a real crime before you can talk of amnesty.
The real problem, and the real crime, is all the red tape that prevents orderly immigration.
This is a bad idea. Good parents go to extraordinary lengths to help their children get ahead. One of the biggest factors contributing to illegal immigration is automatic citizenship for children born in the U.S. This measure offers essentially the same to children born elsewhere. Defeat this measure and take away automatic citizenship, and illegal immigration will most likely decrease drastically. Passing this measure will cause illegal immigration to increase drastically.
How will these “disadvantaged” children pay for college? Will they be competing with legal citizens for scarce scholarship funds? And to get those funds, legal male citizens often must prove they have registered for selective service. Will the same rule apply to beneficiaries of this “Dream Act?” Anyone who has children in the state universities (I do) knows how competitive they have become and how hard the kids have to work to get any kind of scholarship.
I agree that it is not these kids’ fault that they were brought here as minors, but how about securing our borders and enacting immigration reform BEFORE we start handing out magnet benefits and advantages?
Why can’t they go to college as an immigrant from their country? There are many foreigners who attend college in the US (or other countries) and go home after they get their degree. They can attend a US college without the dream act. Just because someone completes a two year degree does not mean that they are the cream of the crop.
And, oh yes, they should pay the full freight as a non-resident.
Who is more entitled to an education? A foreign student or a student who has grown up and has been educated in American schools? All students compete for resources. May the best man or woman win. Schools look for particular attributes.
All we are assigning these kids is legal residency. BFD. We aren’t enabling them to become president.
And if they were entitled to compete, by reason of legal entry, then I would agree with you. But this is to legislate legal entry where none exists.
And Mackie, try section 1325 of title 8, United States Code, and tell me what part of “, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.” doesn’t make it a crime?
And, are you now saying that it doesn’t make sense to try to deport 12 million people and instead we should make it so their kids can go to college, sometimes at the expense of citizens? Wow, that is kinda on the fringe.
I agree that we ought to use some rational thought but it sounds like, “if you don’t like that, maybe we should do this also.”
So what do the nay sayers think should happen to young adults/kids who have worked hard in school, done well, and in many cases spent their entire lives as Americans? They are completely powerless. All over paperwork. What incentives are there for kids to do the right thing if you tell them they are not worthy of our colleges and universities because their parents are illegal. Something is just dead wrong with this kind of thinking, in my mind.
I don’t want anyone getting a free ride or something no one else is getting. I just don’t want students who have the qualifications to be blocked because of the actions of their parents. And for all practical purposes, this is their country.
From an emotional standpoint, I can see your point. But I also know that universities base admissions on diversity. It isn’t always a level playing field.
Alas Mackie, entering this country illegally is a civil offense, not showing up for a deportation hearing is also a violation. So Yes, Virginia, there is a crime. Yes, the system is broken, but it does not give other country’s citizens the right to come here without legal standing. Our tax code is broken too by the way, but you still have to pay taxes.
If the Dream Act allows the student (once a citizen) to sponser their illegal/undocumented parents and siblings, its an amnesty for those that in fact, broke U.S. Code. If one American student is a citizen, they have priority over that college seat than an illegal alien that who is a student.
Universities do a whole lot of things I don’t approve of. They are probably one of the most morally bankrupt institutions, as a group. The undergrad schools exist to finance the grad schools, their R & D programs, and to advance individual egos. Meanwhile parents pay 20-50k a year for this education. Often the first 2 years of study, a kid sits in ‘class’ with 300-500 other students. All that for 20k a year?
I just roll my eyes when I think about it.
LuckyDucky,
The children aren’t culpable are they? Surely, in order for someone to be ‘guilty’ there has to be some intent or knowledge of a crime.
I totally agree. While some of these children are brought here at an age where they can’t consent, I don’t like this idea. Colleges are getting extremely competitive and I don’t like the fact that my daughters might not get into the school they want because of this act.
MH – where I went to school, it wasn’t like that. I went to a very small (public) college and loved every minute of it. I would hate for my children not to have the same opportunity because someone who is here and not a citizen took that from them.
So knowing what you know about colleges and universities, this is a good thing?
Therein lies the debate Alanna. While they may not be culpable for the decision of their parents, they are here illegally, regardless of the emotional ties to their stories. The question is should they be given citizenship after completing the steps of the Dream Act? Should they be able to displace American student for spaces in college? Can and should they be allowed to bring citizenship to their illegal parents? What are your opinions on these questions?
It is a means to an end. You Wish, actually your college was probably part of the same thing but just not to the same degree as a major university. Talk to some folks who work there. Get them drunk. They will spill. Actually I am not sure how the smaller public colleges dupe the public. My inside track is from major universities. And they all do pretty much the same thing.
On the other hand, how would you feel about your daughter not getting to go to the college of her choice because a foreign student had ‘her seat?’ The foreign student is also helping keep costs lower for in-state kids. Its all a trade off.
Frankly, if the illegal student had better academic qualifications than some citizen kid, I don’t see where it matters. How about the soccer player or special kicker on the football team who is brought to the country to kick a ball into a net or between goal posts? Does that make everyone feel better because that kicker is ‘legal?’ The only reason that kid is legal is because some freaking coach pulled a fast one and through recruitment got all the paper work done.
I am far more impressed with some kid who wasn’t born a silver spoon in their mouth making something of themselves by working hard in school, than one who can kick a ball through goal posts. It isn’t easy for some of those kids to have the time to study. Quite often their parents do not value formal education and the money isn’t free flowing.
If the Dream Act passes, and it probably will, then the kid won’t be illegal. That should take care of any problems anyone has with the rule of law. That rule of law seems real negotiable and very fluid at times, doesn’t it.
APWR, knowing that, I accept it as JUST IS.
That’s fine. And my kids were not born with a silver spoon, were yours?
My kids weren’t born iwth a silver spoon, either.
And the Dream Act flies in the face of the old saw that the illegal immigrants are here “to do the jobs Americans don’t want to do.” Apparently, they want education and training so they can take many other jobs away from Americans, too.
I know of several “home grown Americans” who tried the college “thing” and did not make it very far. As far as I can tell, there are PLENTY of higher education schools for kids to attend. Seriously, these kids, working their a$$es off, are great models for our “citizen” children, who to often, forget how lucky they are to be in this country.
Please stop that kind of thing. So now they are better than our kids? Did you really mean to say that? I have one kid that is a doctor who got no financial aid, I got another kid who has a masters in social work, who got no financial aid and a daughter who is currently in college (with, you guessed it, no financial aid). They have forgotten nothing about how “lucky they are to be”.
This is getting to be a useless argument. Only children of people who have come into this country without any benefit of law are “great models”? And none of the kids here are great models? You really need to take a deep breath.
I did not fight through the 60’s as a civil rights’ advocate to listen about that kind of rhetoric. It is absurd at its best. We fought for citizens of this country and we took whippings to do it. Good Lord.
So keep with your elitist view of the world, it will do you well.
I am surprised that the sense of civil rights didn’t extend itself to the children of illegal immigrants who are here through no fault of their own. Usually that sort of sense of fairness doesn’t just evaporate.
Elena didn’t say that the children in question were better than all Citizen children nor did she imply it. My kids weren’t born with a silver spoon in their mouths either but they certainly had more advantages than many of the children who would be ‘allowed’ to be educated by the Dream Act.
In the first place, most of the parents have little formal education. Some cannot read or write. Most of the dream act potentials have had to care for younger brothers and sisters because their parents worked 2,3 jobs. As many people have complained about, myself included, some live in single family homes with multiple families. Some have not put down roots because their families always moved, following the work. Then there is the usual poverty that has been proven to be an educational handicap.
Somehow, some of these kids, manage to rise above it all. Those are the kids I want to see educated, if that is their desire. They are not responsible for the circumstances of their illegality.
Please reread what Elena said. You certainly extrapolated a great deal out of her paragraph that I did not see there. Yes, there are some children of illegal immigrants who set a good example to some citizen children because they work hard and don’t squander their resources.
Thank you Moon! Where did that diatribe from PWCR come from? Here is a wonderful article that I have been meaning to write a thread about. PWCR, I hope you will take the time to read this story. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/16/AR2009021600937.html@Moon-howler
By the way, PWCR, I paid for my own education, undergrad and grad, in fact, I am STILL paying off loans. I am no elitist, not by any stretch of the imagination. I have lived on my own since I was 18, worked since I was 16. No “silver spoon” here.
Sorry, M-H if I happen to offend you. Elena could probably answer for herself I would guess. My sense of civil rights started in many places and yes I got more than one club put to my head. It was in Selma and a lot of places after that. But each time it was for a people who were denied rights that they deserved as CITIZENS. I would do it again willingly.
I reread Elena’s comments more than once so please do not preach to me about what she said or didn’t say as I did the reading before I posted. Did my kids have more advantages than many of the children “allowed” to be educated under the Dream Act? Yeah, maybe they did. But the bottom line is always that these people for whom the Dream Act is intended should not be here in the first place. If they should be here, I would be the first in line to protect their rights to go to college. I did it before and I would be most happy to do it again. But they aren’t entitled to it at all. That is the cold hard facts.
Please do not preach to me about this kind of thing. When you have taken a rod across your back in defense of someone less fortunate, I will think you will understand.
Elena simply implied that we should do this because there is some evidence that these wonderful children would be a model for our pampered children who don’t care they are in this country. That is abhorrent to me as a comment and I stand by it.
When she, and not you, tells me that she did not mean to denigrate our kids who also work hard and explains why she did not say it to begin with, then I will not be as upset. But she did not approach it that way.
By the way, did you think that some of the “citizen” kids did not have to care for younger siblings because their parents worked 2 or three jobs? Maybe they even live with multiple families? But they have a huge difference–perhaps their families did not cross a border to do it.
Yes, I worked from when I was 14 to pay for a high school education in DC because I wanted to get the best education. I paid for each day of college as well.
Elena, I did read the article and I agree this is a good kid. But it doesn’t change anything. Did you go to Georgetown? Are you paying for that tuition? I know I couldn’t pay that tuition for my kids and mine were National Merit Scholars but they got nothing.
And I am really sorry that you believe that someone’s passionate discussion that does not agree with yours is a diatribe. That was a classy post.
I think after all this time of sticking to issues and not personal attacks deserved a little bit more consideration–but I guess I am wrong.
First of all PWCR, YOU implied I meant all children, I simply stated that having hard working positive role models,like these kids, dealing with extremely challenging life circumstances, are good examples, that actually, serve as shining stars for ALL of us. Does that mean we ALL NEED such examples, NO, but it does mean that their stories should not go unnoticed. I live by the words of Thomas Jefferson, who believed in a philosophy, much older than himself. The Declaration of Independence talks about HUMAN beings, NOT just American citizens.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Anyway, are you suggesting you should just send these children back, to a country they know nothing about, and may not even speak the language? Are you suggesting that there isn’t some common humanity that could, or even SHOULD, be extended to them?
How many children, first hand, have you spoken with, trapped in this predicament?
I agree, personal attacks are unnecessary PWCR. You accused me of being absurd and and elitist. Clearly, this format for discussion is not the most accurate, I hope in the future you will afford me the opportunity to explain more completely my intent before you go on the offense. I don’t want to fight and if my reaction of “diatribe” seemed strong, it is because I felt like you were instantly going after me, unfairly so, I might add.
“I did not fight through the 60’s as a civil rights’ advocate to listen about that kind of rhetoric. It is absurd at its best. We fought for citizens of this country and we took whippings to do it. Good Lord.
So keep with your elitist view of the world, it will do you well.”
@A PW County Resident
@A PW County Resident
“I am surprised that the sense of civil rights didn’t extend itself to the children of illegal immigrants who are here through no fault of their own. ”
This arguement is really about who is eligible for government assistance. Apparently now loaning money for college is to you not just a helping hand for Americans, but a “civil right” which is to be extended to other nations’ citizens.
I certainly understand your utilitarian arguements but I hope that you understand that it’s thinking like that that got us in this predicament in the first place.
Either the red carpet is rolled out, or it is not. Either we want illegal immigration, or we don’t. The idea that we need some “comprehensive” solution is just Amnesty masqueraded as something more complex or thoughtful.
I have taught at George Washington University, George Mason University as well as Northern Virginia Community College in the past as an adjunct faculty member. I have had the Universities/Colleges turn away students because class size is restricted. So there are not always plenty of colleges or classes to attend. No non-citizen should take a class seat away from an American citizen who wants to attend that particular class.
Most of the students in my class were not born with a “silver spoon” in their mouths and most work fulltime while attending class at night. Nobody is out there demanding college be easier for them. They are dedicated, hardworking young people with goals. I don’t want to see one class space lost to non-citizens.
MH – the silver spoon comment was way out of line. Both of my parents worked 2 jobs to send me and my brother to college. I took out loans for college and grad school.
And a froeign student doesn’t count as an in state student, so they wouldn’t be taking away a “seat” from my kid.
Call this what you want, but it’s back door amnesty. So these “hard working” kids become citizens under the Dream act and then, like Lucky and others have said, they sponsor their families for citizenship.
No sir, I don’t like it. Not one bit.
You Wish, let me give you an example…Northern Virginia Community College, in most classes, allows 25 students in some classes. So if # 25 is an individual here illegally/undocumented, should they be allowed to take the seat of # 26, an American citizen? I don’t think that should happen. Under the Dream Act, they could take class seats away from American citizens.
Elena, I neither said you were absurd nor did I say you were an elitist. Your comment, ” know of several “home grown Americans” who tried the college “thing” and did not make it very far. As far as I can tell, there are PLENTY of higher education schools for kids to attend” is elitist. If I changed “there are PLENTY of higher education schools for kids to attend” to “let them eat cake”, it is an elitist statement.
There is an obvious difference between making an “absurd” comment and being absurd, and to make an “elitist” comment and being an elitist.
How many times has someone taken issue with feeling that they have been called a “racist” when someone commented that they made a racist comment? And then it is pointed out that they didn’t call them a racist, just the comment was.
I know how kids are devastated when they don’t get into the college of their choice, especially a state owned college, because of some mysterious admissions approach. And now we are talking about having a law that makes that competition even more but the person taking the spot may not even be allowed to be here. And the person might possibly be in a group that would get special consideration in admission policy –that does not provide the level playing field for children of citizens.
So I will apologize if I said anything personal about you as that is never my intent.
Actually, I believe that children of illegal immigrants already can go to NOVA. Any verification of this?
You Wish, Thank you for telling me how to behave on this blog. Please explain to me in detail why that expression offends you so much. This I have to hear.
Seats are seats, by the way. What on earth are you talking about foreign students not taking seats from citizens? Of course they do. So do out of state students. In private school, it doesn’t matter.
More later…
So, for all of you here that disagree with allowing children a future, what IS your plan? These children are here, many from a very young age.
@Lucky Duck
So non-citizens are easily picked out of your class line up? You know which one is the non citizen when you teach them? Do you ask them for their immigration status? What about the white students, do you ask them? Do they look less “illegal”? One child deserves more than another?
One child’s worth is more than anothers. Ok I get it. That must be what you meant. See the kid from Nepal is by all accounts AMERICAN, does not deserve the same treatment as the other kid who was born here. WHAT FAULT IS IT OF THE KID FROM NEPAL, THAT HE WAS BORN IN NEPAL?