Many anti-immigration spokes-people (self-appointed and otherwise) insist that our education system is a draw for illegal immigrants and that our free k-12 immigration system serves as a magnet. New statistics might make them want to rethink that rhetoric.
According to the DC Examiner, 1 out of 4 Hispanic students drops out high school before graduation. New methods of tracking students have allowed jurisdictions to refine their drop out rates. While Arlington, Alexandria and Prince William have the worst Hispanic drop-out rates, Fairfax doesn’t lag too far behind.
Northern Virginia dropout rates for the class of 2008:
Alexandria — 11 percent
Arlington County — 9 percent
Fairfax County — 6 percent
Falls Church — 0 percent
Loudoun County — 3 percent
Prince William County — 10 percent
Source: Virginia Department of Education
NOTE: The above table shows dropout rates for ALL students.
The data track for the first time the path of students who entered high school in 2004 as they progressed through graduation. The previous measure divided total dropouts by total students in grades nine through 12, resulting in lower and less accurate percentages. Maryland districts are about two years away from similar data, and the District of Columbia will have the data in four years.
“This is a milestone in our reporting,” said Virginia Superintendent Patricia Wright, adding that it holds schools accountable for every student.But it revealed some ugly truths about local districts.
In Alexandria and Arlington and Prince William counties, almost 25 percent of Hispanic students dropped out of school and did not enroll elsewhere between 2004 and 2008. Fairfax County fared little better with a rate of 22 percent.
“That’s way too many students to not be finishing in a society that requires, at a minimum, that individuals have a high school diploma,” said Kathy Wills, director of planning and evaluation for Arlington County Public Schools.
While the data will not ever clearly define which of these students are here legally and which are not, because schools collect no information on status, it only stands to reason that part of these student dropping out are probably out of status because their parents are out of status.
What are possible causes of this phenomena? Is it different that other waves of immigrant groups? How does this dropout rate affect our discussions of future ‘Dream Acts?’ Is there a demographic that disaggregates the data even further, such as by gender or country of origin and would it even matter?
So, if I concede that education is not a draw, then you all will join me in fighting the Dream Act, right? No Draw!
Poor Richard,
That was hilarious!
So Firedancer, in this very troubling economic time, who is going to pay for these “flexible programs”, with career/technicial training and flexible hours”?
You’re talking about teachers being available at “flexible hours” and programs outside of the regular schedule. That cost extra dollars to provide these outside the accepted school schedules and programs.
Sorry, I pay enough in taxes that I don’t want to pay for this. We are mandated by law to provide and education to all children – and we do – but to provide “extraordinary” education outside the regular school schedule and class selection takes money away from the vast majority of the student body.
Lucky Duck, yes, a budget reflects the priorities of a community. Would you feel so adamant if these weren’t immigrant students we’re talking about? Special Education is also very expensive, gifted resource teachers are an added expense. Where do you draw the line on the type of flexible educational options that will be offered? A district should pride itself on seeking ways to help all children succeed, rather than pride in saying we won’t help THOSE students seek a path to graduation.
Yes, we’re in tough economic times, it’s true. So which programs and supports should be cut?
Firedancer, your premise for the necessity of these “flexible programs” is that the students are, in fact, “immigrant students”
Here is your quote…”The majority of Hispanic students who drop out in my district are older students, limited English proficient, who arrived here with little to no high school credits, and who just feel a sense of hopelessness in how long it will take them to graduate”.
Yes, I would feel different if they were not immigrant students. But that is because we do provide the opportunity for education (the SAME ones that all other children – immigrant and non-immigrant alike) to all students within the same boundries, classes and schedules.
Why should limited funds be spent on such a select few at the expense of all the other students? There are sufficient programs within the traditional school system that we should not have to spend funds to accomdate those who need “flexible schedules”.
Systematic exploitation will take it’s toll. That’s what you’re seeing here.
The statistics surrounding asians are misleading.
White conservatives promote the myth of asians as the ‘model minority’. They promote this myth so that they can escape accountability for the systematic bigotry from which they and their children benefit.
So Sayeth the little winged fat people!!
Lucky Duck, my premise for the necessity of flexible programs is not that the students are immigrants. Rather it’s because some students, particularly older ones who have a long way to go to reach graduation and who are facing difficult life situations, don’t fit the traditional model of student around which a traditional high school is designed. There are certainly white, black and every other kind of student as well who could also benefit, including the son of my highly educated white friend, who in fact did graduate from an alternative high school.
The fact that there is a high dropout rate among Hispanic students means that something is not working for them. We can say, “Tough noogies, you might be an undocumented immigrant,” or we can say, “Since we care about all students, let’s look at how we can help all students achieve a high school diploma.”
As tele-education becomes more practical and standard, these dropouts will have more opportunity if they choose to take it. In tough times, all education will suffer.
On the other hand, many students could end up taking advantage of more flexible high school scheduling. Immigrant students are not the only ones who would be served.
My biggest gripe with education is that alternative education is short-changed. It should be for all sorts of students who have non standard educational needs, rather than just for those who have behavioral issues. Additionally, there are few provisions for technical training. Not everyone will attend college. Public schools, in their stupidity, seem to feel that everyone will go to college and succeed. That is a very unrealistic goal. Not everyone SHOULD go to college.
“I think it’s just unavoidable that an aversion to the “browning of America” is at the heart of the issue for way too many people who are harping on this issue”
I don’t think it’s as simple as that. I think that a lot of us are legitimately concerned with what is going on but not because of anything to do with race or genetics.
My primary concern, the thing that fuels my anger is that our government does not try to protect its own citizens. Does not care about limiting poverty, preserving jobs, maintaining good wages. No one fights for the poor. The Democratic party certainly does not.
Firedancer, if there is a 25% drop out rate, then we certainly are leaving some child behind. Lots of them!
Me, I married a black woman and my family is black – it doesn’t preclude being racist but I can hardly be said to have “the browning of America” as a concern. Unlike Pat Buchanan, I say let it get brown and let us all move inwards towards one color, that’s fine with me.
Hey, where’s ShellyB? I found a present for you:
SAN JOSE, Costa Rica (Reuters) – The economic slump and soaring unemployment in the United States mean this is not a good time to push immigration reform, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden told Central American leaders on Monday.
“It’s difficult to tell a constituency while unemployment is rising, they’re losing their jobs and their homes, that what we should do is in fact legalize (illegal immigrants) and stop all deportation,” Biden told a news conference in the Costa Rican capital.
What was that violent tightening sound I just heard?
Firedancer, your quote “The majority of Hispanic students who drop out in my district are older students, limited English proficient, who arrived here with little to no high school credits,” describes an immigrant student experience.
What you wrote above at 20:47 is different reasoning for flexible programs. You now mention “some students, particularly older ones who have a long way to go to reach graduation”, without the additional issue of limited English proficiency. Completely different justification to me.
I would still oppose it because the opportunity for success is there under a traditional school set up. By the way, Prince William offers an “alternative high school” within the same schedule as a traditional school.
Right, but those are federally and state funded – and special education can draw funds from Medicaid for those students that are eligible AND gets additional funds from IDEA. Lucky Duck has a point. Potomac High School did “flexible” hours when I was working there in ’97-’98. It lasted one year. There were flex hours until 4:30, but no students took advantage of it. The county dropped the program.
As Latinos gradually establish majorities in places like the Southwest and Florida, and establish the rules, these kinds of statistics will improve.
For example, in Miami, the rule is it’s better for your career if you can speak spanish.
This is a new rule.
The old rule said you only needed to speak english, and only the hired help spoke spanish. This is a very dumb rule now. Wise parents would discard it.
In that respect, tools like the SAT and it’s focus on english is actually harming students rather than helping them to prepare.
Lucky Duck and You Wish, flexible scheduling is just one example of trying to meet the real needs of students, not my entire argument. Lucky, I never meant to imply your first reading of my justification.
As M-H mentioned, not everyone is college bound, yet technical paths are being eliminated from high schools. The high school program is narrowing instead of broadening. But it’s great for the academic, college bound kid. We still need carpenters, HVAC technicians, electricians, car mechanics, and why shouldn’t kids start learning a trade in high school, and perhaps aspire to even start their own business some day? I wonder how many of those drop outs have a technical aptitude, and could be kept in school if they saw a meaningful path?
Slow-slow, I am a pragmatist and I am willing to wait until there is more confidence in the economy. Obama has a lot of Bush messes to clean up after. We’ve lived with the status quo for decades, so another few months won’t hurt. The anti-immigrant movement is flailing away and tuckering itself out in the mean time. Fine with me.
Rick, I know that you and most people on this blog are trying very hard to cleave the racism from the nationalism in the anti-immigrant and the anti-illegal immigrant movements. A big part of the problem for you is that the movement has been spearheaded by anti-immigrant organizations like FAIR, who make no bones about the fact that they are concerned about the browning of America. Not only do they have white supremacist founders and board members, their own website plainly states that they oppose all immigration, not just illegal immigration. You also have the Letiecq crowds working in concert with FAIR and the hate group/navivist labels to contend with.
Here’s the bottom line. You do have a valid argument that deserves to be heard. But you are drowned out by racists and xenophobes, without whom you would not have the e-mail power or the funding sources necessary to mount a movement for change.
I sympathize and don’t envy your position at all.
So glad to hear Biden say that. Maybe we won’t have an Amnesty 2009 push after all.
ShellyB, your perception of my position is a fairly abstract thing. Meanwhile in a very tangible way I enjoy life in my neighborhood so much more thanks to the efforts of HSM, Greg Letiecq, Corey Stewart, John STirrup, and others. Plenty of “brown” faces on my block, some with hispanic surnames, and that’s just fine with me. They’re single families and not flophouses. My neighborhood is safer and quieter.
Mackie, valuing bilingualism and encouraging students to maintain their Spanish is a plus, but the students still need to acquire a high level of English to succeed in this country. Among the Hispanic drop outs in this area, the majority are limited English proficient, and as I said above, they become discouraged once they realize how far they have to go to acquire enough English to pass high school courses. If anything, resources needed to be devoted to intensive English language development courses, as well as training mainstream teachers in effective strategies for meeting the needs of English language learners of all levels. That is, if we care about all students.
Parents will care most about their kids, not other people’s kids.
The Education Resources Information Center has a paper on this very topic with some interesting research that discusses the various reasons that the latino drop out rate is high.
http://www.ericdigests.org/2004-3/latino.html
My sister did her master’s thesis on this topic. Her research indicated that it was tied to family attitudes about education combined with economic situations. She also found that it spread to 2nd generation latino youths. Although education is prized in most cultures, all cultures view education differently. To go to high school until you are 16 might be considered a major accomplishment for some families. They don’t see dropping out to work at 16 as a failure but rather as a success that the student surpassed his parents and grandparents by 7 or 8 grades. The other difference in culture is the age of “adulthood”, especially when put in context of lower income families. While we might see our 15 old daughter as our “baby” who we coddle, in the eyes of many latinos, a 15 yr. old is a young woman ready to take on the traditional responsibilities of homemaking and raising a family, possibly caring for younger siblings so mom can work. The same for the 16 old boys. Are they sophomores who should be encouraged to play sports with friends and study in the evening or are they now the age that they should be helping to put food on the table for the family by working with dad?
I hear you Rick. I do think that government can do something to help deal with neighborhood issues. I also think it is possible to do it without creating a rift that will take decades to heal.
I wonder if the same good results in your neighborhood had been attained by spending $14,000,000 on neighborhood services, would you have been as happy with those good results. More happy? Or less happy?
Don’t look now but Gospel Greg is still trying regain his relevancy nearly a year after digital castration.
I just had a quick look at the crime report he is so clearly manipulating.
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/009958.pdf
First of all, the crime rate in Prince William County has been going down for more than 10 years. The crime rate went down in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2007.
When did it go UP UP UP for only the second time this decade? 2008. That’s right, the year in which the Immigration Resolution went into effect.
(I’m not trying to say that this is all because of the Immigration Resolution. Rather, I’m just showing how easy it is to blow these statistics up in Gospel Greg’s face).
Furthermore, if we say “violent crime is down,” we are really talking about four categories … one of which is unchanged, one of which is up, and two of which are down. Rape is unchanged. Murder is up 20 percent. Robbery is down slightly. And assault is down significantly.
Murder and rape are rare, so there is going to be fluctuation year to year (we went from 10 murders in 2007 to 12 for instance).
But let’s take a look at the two categories that went down in 2008, the year when the Immigration Resolution went into effect.
There were 24 less robberies in 2008 than 2007. This can and should be attributed to Chief Deane’s program to combat robbery.
There were 135 less reported cases of aggravated assault in 2008 than in 2007. This is the only number of the four that is noteworthy.
But if you asked anyone inside the Prince William County Police Department, they will tell you that the apparent departure of undocumented residents affects robbery and assault figures because undocumented people are very often the victims of such crimes, and far less often the perpetrators. So if there is a drop robbery and assault that can be attributed to the Immigration Resolution, it most likely has more to do with there being less easy targets out there (easy targets are people who carry cash because they cannot get back accounts, and are reluctant to go to the police if they are the victims of a mugging or a robbery.)
So, if we had such a huge drop off crimes against persons … or, crimes against persons that are actually reported as the case may be … how is it that our crime rate went UP in 2008 for only the third time in 15 years?
The crime rate went up in Prince William County last year because we had 366 more acts of larceny, burglary, and motor vehicle theft than we had in 2007. Crimes against property are not a matter of easy target or hard target, and therefore I would have expected crimes against property to be unchanged by the Immigration Resolution … which would mean they should have continued to go down.
My suspicion is that such crimes rose so sharply instead because police officers were distracted by the immigration controversy, and getting less cooperation from minority communities (which is substantiated by the Citizen Satisfaction Survey showing Blacks and Hispanics views of the police force have suffered dramatically as a result of the immigration controversy).
Yesterday, I provided in finer detail my theory to account for the rise in crime in Prince William County:
Also, it’s time to stop making fun of F.A.I.R.’s prefabricated, never-bothered-to-fact-check, and inaccurate writing … adopted by Help Save Manassas’ John Stirrup and Rob Duecaster in drafting the Immigration Resolution.
Recall that the Immigration Resolution claimed that undocumented immigrants have caused a “culture of lawlessness in this county,” and, a lot of hay was made of the fact that, after two months of study, the Police Department reported that only 1.6 percent of the crime in this county is committed by undocumented immigrants.
That seems to have gone up now that we have a full year’s worth of data. The new figure is 3 percent, or 4 percent, depending on which types of crimes you are looking at.
Of the 22 murder arrests, there were zero undocumented immigrants. Of 23 rape arrests, there was one undocumented immigrant.
No such figures were compiled prior to 2008, so if you’re reading some kind of bogus statistic on the Gospel Greg blog about 2007 or 2006, you can guess from whence he pulled it….
Greetings from the interior?
“Of the 22 murder arrests, there were zero undocumented immigrants.”
No way! I’ve seen photos of murderers on the news, and many had Latino surnames. Now if you’re telling me that we need to fear Latinos in general, whether legal or illegal, then things are far worse then we imagined. They were all documented all right, they now have police records!
Thanks for taking the time to break down the stats for us, WHWN!
Happy to do it TWINAD. If you download the PDF, the reality of these figures just pops out at you, that’s how well prepared this document was. All compliments should go to the PWC Police Dept.
Please click here, download, and read for yourself. Gospel Greg was hoping you wouldn’t but here’s to disappointing the man who would be king:
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/009958.pdf
“I wonder if the same good results in your neighborhood had been attained by spending $14,000,000 on neighborhood services, would you have been as happy with those good results. More happy? Or less happy?”
Honestly, if anyone had given enough of a darn to use government, at any level, to try to residents keep my neighborhood a good place to live rather than an overcrowded mess full of shodowy figures, I would probably not be on this kick and would probably still have a faith in the Democratic party as I did.
But instead I watched them take my taxes and work against me, leaving me to reflect on the hows and whys of what they are doing, and realizing that none of tem really care about me or about the rhetoric they use to get people to vote for their parties. Lift people out of poverty, increase access to health care, and improve schools? Not while millions of uneducated poor are let in against the law. Homeland security? A joke.
Some facts on the Manassas City School System:
Limited English Proficent Students: FY05-24%, FY09-35%
Eligible for free or reduced lunch: FY-23%, FY-37%
I don’t question the doctors and nurses or demean the patients,
but do note the ambulance is bringing in more, often indigent,
sick folks than the hospital can treat with a reasonable
standard of care. Good outcomes often require time and money –
both in shorter and shorter supply.
The problem isn’t the arrival of “different” people, Manassas has long
been a proudly diverse community, but the recent massive wave of poor
and uneducated individuals in a short period of time that
has swamped our civic institutions.
WHWN, thanks for schoolin’ Gospel Greg. I’m sick of this crime stat slander. Maybe Corey will cut it out if Greg will not.
Rick, thanks for the great answer. Out of curiosity, did you mean to say it was the Democratic party that let you down with regard to neighborhood services?
Alamo, that was a joke right?
Rick, I re-read your post and I get it now. Your frustration with neighborhood issues led you to focus on federal issues, and you blame Democrats for not solving the issue at the federal level. Yes?
No, not quite.
I noticed, given that the primary source of frustration in my life was the illegal population in my neighborhood, how large the influx was and what a joke it makes of everything the Democrats have claimed to stand for through my lifetime. I watched them, including Obama, promote Amnesty and I realized that they actually don’t care about the things they claim to care about (health care, reducing poverty for citizens, better schools, good living wages, mitigating the gap between rich and poor). Like the Republican party, they put the interests of big business and lobbyist friends, and political concerns, well above any concerns for getting Amerericans out of poverty or maintaining decent wages.
Living in what was becoming a Spanish ghetto, I realized just how completely full of it the federal politicians were. And I came to realize it of the State and Local ones also. The only ones that ever seemed to understand what was happening to my neighborhood were Stirrup and Stewart. The rest I’m sure thought, when I called them or wrote them, that I was an eccentric xenophobe and that the problem was imagined rather than real. That’s because those people live in different neighborhoods than mine, in an existence that I consider sheltered, and care more about the politically correct consensus among their dinner-party friends than they do about what’s real.
The ACLU thinks that abstract notions of racial profiling are more important than whether my child gets raped. The Democratic party thinks that getting a solid non-white voting majority is more important than lifting Americans out of poverty. The Republican party thinks that keeping wages as low as posible (sub-minimum minimum wage in some cases) is more important than securing our borders and preventing attack to our food supply. I abhor, perhaps hate, those institutions deeply and hold the people in them in a real contempt.
Thanks’s WHWN for posting the facts.
Here are some other FACTS that people should be aware of, especially regarding “assumptions” that “illegal” immigrants are not THE CAUSE of crime increase in this country. Remember crime is not caused by racial, gender, religious, or ethnic groups, but by INDIVIDUALS that break the LAW (i.e illegal unlawful people).
This very improtant point I’ll get back to (Moon) as you ignored this in presenting the racially biased topic of your thread (As usual, it is a racial focus to justify and solicit racial and ethnic political support for Hispanics.) This crap makes me sick, and I’ll tell you why it is wrong to do this later, but basically you ignore “low income” people who ALL need help everytime you do this racial support racism.
MOST of you miss this very important point!
ANY crime commited by an illegal immigrant is a crime that would not be committed if they were not present in the US.
There would be 63 less victims in PWC of part 1 crimes, if all illegals in PWC were arrested and deported prior to 2008. Tell the families of those victims you support “illegal” immigration. Or the families of the 401 potential victims of lessor crimes committed by “illegal” immigrants in PWC. Or the fact that 175 “illegal” immigrants “arrested” are driving without a driver’s license (does not include the number driving without license that have NOT been caught yet)
An increase from 1739 Part 1 crimes to 1802 is a 3.49% INCREASE IN MAJOR CRIME CAUSED ENTIRELY BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. THIS WILL HAPPEN EVERY YEAR we have “illegal” immigrants in the country. It will NEVER decrease as long as we have “illegal” immigrants. THAT is a fact!
Here’s some more facts, you can attempt to distort but can’t…
Moderator’s Reply:
There’s no higher tendencies for undocumented individuals to commit crimes at a higher rate than others. So given a particular population of people it really does not matter their immigration status.
Interesting cultural study, Anona, and not one many people pay attention to.
Someone might have already suggested this, but I would like to see the breakdown of the number of dropouts who came here later in their school careers (as in post-elementary school) when learning a language is more difficult.
It’s also important to understand that students who don’t feel they are part of a successful group are more apt to identify with labels that discourage learning and assimilation. It’s self-fulfilling prophecy.
As Rick Bently laments the Crimes most visible to our community (Fraud, Rape, larceny, prostitution, sale of cocaine/meth, public drunkeness, DUI and driving without a license are ALL commited by a DISPROPORTIONATLY LARGER percentage of “illegal” immigrants compared to the rest of the population. (The statistics do not openly point this out to you because such truth is VERY political to ETHNIC ADVOCATES.)
Since we never obtain data on “illegals” before 2008, we will not know if there is a rise or drop in rate from year to year as a percentage contribution by “illegal” immigrants, so lacking that knowledge MOST of you assume some correlation in prior years with previous years as evidence of “illegal” contribution when in FACT YOU DON”T KNOW. (i.e “First of all, the crime rate in Prince William County has been going down for more than 10 years. The crime rate went down in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2007.
When did it go UP UP UP for only the second time this decade? 2008. That’s right, the year in which the Immigration Resolution went into effect.”
Since you have never measured it, you don’t know what the effect of “illegal” immigration has been on crime rate. BUT you can know what percentage of 2008 crime was “illegal” immigrant caused.
You can also know this…12 Million illegal immigrants are estimated to be in our country illegally. That is 3.92% of a 306 million population. ANY annual crime statistic attributed to “illegal” immigrants above this is DISPROPORTIONATELY larger than the rest of the populations contribution to crime. In addition since we only took data on “illegals” for 10 months and crime data for 12 months you have to multiply the reported statistics by 120% (1.2) to obtain the additional (corrected) percentage of “illegal” contribution consistant with 12 months of data (one or the other must be corrected to be accurate, either 10 months of crime data or 12 months of “illegal” data to be accurate).
Here’s the actual numbers: (Chief Dean rounded down and introduced additional error and misrepresentation in his calculations, and left out 2 months of “illegal data” rather than correct for it).
Rape (5.21%) 1% greater than the average “non-illegal”
Larceny (6%) 2.1% greater than the average “non-illegal”
Total Part 1 Crime (4.19%) 0.27% greater than the average “non-illegal”
Fraud (12.58%) 8.66% greater than the average “non-illegal”.
Prostitution (25.71%) 21.79% greater than the average “non-illegal”.
Sale opium/cocaine (10.0%) 6.08% greater than the average “non-illegal”.
Public Drunkeness (11.25% 7.33% greater than the average “non-illegal”.
DUI (6.05%) 2.13% greater than the average “non-illegal”.
Total (minor offenses) (5.20%) 1.28% greater than the average “non-illegal”.
Driving without license (17.1%) 13.18% greater than the average “non-illegal”.
And we don’t even have numbers for the other offenses that “illegal” immigrants commit disproportionately more than the rest of the population that really pee’s everyone in the commiunity off:
Zoning violations
Overcrowded houses
Trash in the street and yards
Commercial vehicles parked everywhere
Stealing of electricity
Mortgage fraud (that started our global economic crisis)
etc, etc, etc.
Since we do NOT do demographics on FORMERLY illegal immigrants, you can’t seperate the crime statistics of 35 Million former illegals with crime statistics that are totaled by racial, gender, religious of ethnic group BIASES. Maybe that is why you see so many murders committed by gangs, an increse by a factor of 8 in crime from FORMERLY illegal immigrants in the country less than 25 years, and specific races correlated to SURNAMES, who have been here long enough to no longer be “illegal” (25 years), but have the lack of ethics and poverty backgroud that contributes to their “INDIVIDUAL” decisions to commit crime. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THIS UNLESS YOU DO VALID DEMOGRAPHIC DATA COLLECTION instead of make assumptions on what “illegals” do compared to others.
I would much prefer we don’t do demographics at all except look at those who BREAK THE LAW as “individuals”, seperate people into “legal” and “illegal” demographics, punish them, and stop encouraging ethnic, gender, religious and racial support for them (as encouragement for them to continue to break the law)
Rick, thank you for expanding. You seem to be really heartsick with disappointment over our leaders at all levels. I am glad you are happy with Corey Stewart and John Stirrup. Since I do not live in a neighborhood that was affected by immigration, I wish that Stewart and Stirrup had approached the issues you faced in your neighborhood differently, and achieved the same goals, without creating larger problems for the rest of us. I believe they hurt us in the pocket book and made us less safe. I think if instead of Greg Letiecq, someone like Chris Panelle had led the charge, it might have happened that way. Or, maybe Letiecq would have focused on Neighborhood Services if he had not been co-opted by FAIR. It’s a shame.
But as for being cynical about politicians, I can match you on that one. I have to INCLUDE Stewart and Stirrup though. Because they ran with the FAIR/Letiecq/Duecaster plan during an election. Honestly, I have my doubts that a Chris Panelle/Neighborhood Services approach would have interested them. You don’t turn out a lot of votes, and you don’t get a lot of publicity just for tending to neighborhood issues.
For life in the third world!
Back to my previous point (Moon).
Kids who drop out of school do not do so because they are HISPANIC. If you believe this you are a racist. Kids of ALL races drop out of school because of HOW THEY WERE RAISED, WHAT THEIR PARENTS TAUGHT THEM, THE MUSIC and PEER CULTURE they associate with, the abuse they suffer at home, the gangs they associate with, and the level of poverty they live in.
LOTS of “low income” white and black kids drop out of school… WHY Moon do you post a thread that only looks or cares about the Hispanic drop out rate? Because as I said so many times before…MOST of you are racists in your analysis and point of view when you SUPPORT and DEFEND racial, gender, religious, and ethnicity issues, support “illegal immigrants as “hispanic victims” instead of truthfully addressing the issue of fairness and equity in the law as issues of “individuals” and the issues of “low income people” This is why posts presented with this bias are so seriously WRONG, WRONG, WRONG…
I’m disappointed in you Moon, I thought you were above such bias. You should try to be more balanced and racially, ethnically “neutral” in your posts.
Michael, I’m not sure I get your statistical analysis, even the 120 percent part which at first made sense to me.
So I don’t know if I am agreeing or disagreeing when I say this. But, if only 4 percent of the crime in our county is committed by undocumented immigrants, then the MUST be committing crime at a lower rate than documented people are. The only way that WOULDN’T be true is if they constituted less than 4 percent of our population. That would be the worst tragedy of all for the anti-immigrant apologists. Because that would mean we destroyed our local economy and made ourselves less safe due to an inaccurate and prejudiced PERCEPTION that the 20 percent of our population that is Latino was ALL undocumented, when in reality, only 1 in 5 of them were. That is a real shame. Really shameful. So many Latino people say they were given the evil eye walking down the street during that time. I don’t doubt it.
Anyway. I understand your argument that, “if all the undocumented people could be made to disappear, we’d have 4 percent less crime around here. But if that was the only justification, I’m sure we could do a better job cutting down crime by getting rid of all the people who have tattoos, or all the young men with earrings.
Not that I’m advocating police blockades to check for tattoos or earrings! Mr. Duecaster: PLEASE don’t take this and run to John Stirrup’s office screaming about a new brilliant excuse for the police state you always wanted!
I’m just saying that statistically speaking, we might be able to cut out more crime if kids with tattoos and earrings disappeared than the hardworking mothers and fathers who have not yet adjusted their status.
Michael, 50% of the Manassas City school dropouts were ESL students.
ShellyB, the ONLY thing Corey Stewart and Stirrup DID was listen to the people who were extremely frustrated by it all (significant increase in “illegal” immigrant population in PWC and the visible negativre effects to their “FINANCIAL STATE and community health) that they MADE ONE LITTLE Change to police policy (ASK ALL PEOPLE wHO ARE STOPPED BY POLICE if they are “ILLEGAL and arrest them if they are). This is not racial profiling, this is law enforcement. The rest of the “image” of what people believe Cory or Stewart did was “manufactured” by political activists supporting and protecting their own ethnic group from consistant police action to enforce the law. (Classic racial and ethnic favoritism)
AS it is, the resolution has changed little from that initial March mandate. The outcome is almost the same, becuase police officers use their judgement and thier judgement about who is illegal and who is not exhibiting behaviors that seem suspiciously illegal, is more often right than wrong.
“At the direction of the Prince William Board of
County Supervisors, the Police Department
implemented a new immigration enforcement
policy in March 2008, after all sworn officers
and relevant civilian staff received training.
The original policy was revised and
enforcement under the revised policy began in
July 2008.
Under the revised policy, police officers are
required to determine the immigration status
of all persons who are taken into physical
custody (rather than ALL those stopped by the police) for a violation of a State or local crime.
Police officers retain discretion to inquire into
the immigration status prior to physical custodial
arrest consistent with the law and sound
policing practices.”
Evidence of this ETHNIC BIAS and political group advocacy ILLEGALLY putting ethnic group political pressure on the police is in the following “survey” which represents how people LIE to protect their own.
“Based on the annual citizen (citizen, green card, ethnic advocacy group, or “illegal?) survey*, initial results of Prince William County’s new illegal
immigration enforcement policy show that
satisfaction with police services has decreased
among Hispanics and African-Americans. In
as much that Hispanics are believed to be victimized
at a somewhat higher rate than non-
Hispanics (14.5% vs. 11.3% respectively
according to the survey), and satisfaction with
police has declined, it is possible that some of
the reduction in reported crime may be due to
a lower reporting rate among these groups.”
Use of word like “believed” indicate no FACTS and are all ETHNIC PREFERENCE BELIEFS which are usually emotional and WRONG.
Ivan it does not matter what percentage of dropouts we have, WE NEED TO help everyone the SAME if they are LEGALLY HERE. This is usually a function of “low income” and BAD PARENTING. IF NOT we need to deport them, and not waste our limited tax resources on people who do not deserve to be here in the first place. I refuse to support funding for only ONE ETHNIC GROUP to reduce its drop-out rate, that is being RACIST.
Learn some math Shelly B, then do the numbers yourself rather than make assumptions and accept other people’s words or “SPIN” on it. You can be wrong when you BELIEVE you are right, when you only think with your emotions and ethnic bias.