Immigration attorney Jerry Erickson reports in his News and Messenger column that the US government is cracking down on the roughly 12 million illegal aliens in the USA. The government is focusing on 2 major areas: illegal aliens particiaping in criminal activities and businesses illegally employing those not authorized to work in the USA.
ICE is also targeting and cracking down on employers who keep illegal aliens employed in the US. Erickson warns that it is more important than ever for businesses to ensure that their employees are properly documented to be working in the US.
For all those who shrieked last time that Erickson is just another liberal immigration attorney, it might be prudent to read what he has to say about complying with the law:
Several recent cases illustrate just how serious the issue of employing illegal aliens has become. Last year, an investigation by the ICE office led to the arrest and conviction of a restaurant owner in
Kentucky. In January 2009, the owner was sentenced to eight months in prison for knowingly employing illegal aliens.
The former CEO and other company managers at a Postville, Iowa meat packing company were charged with conspiracy to harbor illegal aliens after a widely publicized ICE raid at the plant. In addition to
criminal charges, the former CEO of the company is facing tens of millions of dollars in fines.Closer to home, in March 2008, an ICE raid at a concrete company in Manassas resulted in the arrest of 34 illegal workers. The president of the concrete company pled guilty to a pattern or practice of
illegal employment of aliens without lawful authority to work in the United States. He was sentenced to one year of probation, and was ordered to pay $122,000 in forfeiture.In September 2008, a co-owner of El Pollo Rico restaurant in Wheaton, Maryland was sentenced to 15 months in prison, followed by three years of supervised release for money laundering and
conspiracy to commit alien harboring in connection with the operation of the restaurant. Along with his sister, he was ordered to forfeit $7.2 million derived from the illegal activities, in addition to
numerous items of personal property.These four cases present very good reasons why employers must be careful about who they hire and also diligent about having their new hires properly fill out the required paperwork. Federal law requires
that an employer complete the Form I-9 when hiring a new employee. Part of completing the Form I-9 is that the employer must examine the documents offered by the employee to confirm that an
employee is legally authorized to work in the U.S.In several states, employers must also submit the social security number for all new hires to a federal database (known as E-Verify) for confirmation that the employee is authorized to work. E-Verify is a
free Internet-based system operated by the Department of Homeland Security, in partnership with the Social Security Administration (SSA), that allows participating employers to electronically verify the
employment eligibility of their newly hired employees. Although E-Verify isn’t mandatory in Virginia (as it is in some states), employers are eligible to voluntarily participate in the program.So what should an employer do to stay out of trouble? Simply put, do not hire individuals who are not authorized to work in the U.S. The government provides tools such as the Form I-9 and E-Verify to
assist employers in hiring legal employees. Staying compliant is not difficult or time consuming, and it’s well worth the effort to make sure that ICE doesn’t come knocking on the door. The government is
taking workplace enforcement seriously. The failure of a business to comply could mean fines or jail time.As the government continues to release compliance programs like E-Verify, the business community needs to be prepared to show it is doing what it can to only hire those persons authorized to work in
the U.S. Two practical solutions are to volunteer to participate in E-Verify or to create and implement a system for tracking and maintaining I-9 forms. It’s a given that lawful hiring practices must be
embraced by the business community. Diligently making sure that the Form I-9 requirements are met is one of the best defenses against ICE paying an unexpected visit.
These sound like mighty stern words of warning regardless of what the anti-immigration types want to think and say.
I think the especially hateful and hysterical types will feel that just cracking down on crime is not enough. They also want us to “crack down” on fathers who’s wife and three children are all citizen has been waiting for our broken system to get around to his immigration case after waiting 10 years. Somewhere deep down they know the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are not “criminals” even though they like to scream as much with bulging eyeballs.
And all the veins standing out in their necks? Yes, Shelly, there are some who refuse to put a human face on the immigration issue.
The on-line comments to this article are pretty interesting. Even the Advocator himself has jumped in to the discussion. Also, apparently HSM has something called Super Duper Super Clear Vision Illegal Immigarant Spy Glasses that can pick an illegal out of a crowd with 100% accuracy. You would think Greg would sell these things on his web site and raise a little money for the cause.
Sounds promising.
Hahahaha Ivan. I used to have glasses like that once when we had a puppy. I was the only one in the house who could see puppy doo. Yea, magic glasses. That’s the ticket.
Maybe he has a problem with the patent on those glasses. But darn, what a great fund-raising idea.
The citizen comments are far more interesting than the article. Here is a case of lose/lose. It seems that Mr. Erickson can get no support from the anti illegal crowd even when he advises his readers and businesses to obey the law.
Shyster law firm? Oh advocator….speaking of rude. You know, that really is a hideous thing to say–especially with his track record.
Which of you here will come forward and say it’s not wrong to hire an illegal alien when an American citizen can do the job?
I’ve never seen anyone say that it’s ok to hire an illegal on this site.
Why make such a “trouble maker” comment?
I have never said that. Just yesterday on another thread I proposed a solution that would require all undocumented immigrants to register with the feds, but this would not grant them the right to work. They would have something akin to a student visa, and need a sponsoring employer to bump that up to a worker visa. And then in 3 years, they could get a worker visa without a sponsor. And then in 6 years they could be full citizens.
This way, while jobs are scarce, we are discouraging employers from hiring and exploiting undocumented workers, and we are encouraging those who are undocumented to come out of the shadows so we can identify them. They all do want to come out of the shadows, you know. With all of these people with the equivalent of student visas, it will be up to the feds to enforce the law by cracking down on employers.
The employer sponsor applications for work permits would be the in-between mode for the period when jobs begin to come back to our country. Employers would be able to apply for these work permits on behalf of these newly identified but not yet able to work legally people. This way, the crackdown on employers would not mean that the government would have to subsidize those businesses that cannot operate without undocumented workers. But I wonder if this would mean a two-tiered minimum wage structure.
Anyway, I got a thumbs up on the other thread from “Former Com” who can be pretty right wing on this issue.
I think that going after employers hard and fast is an excellent approach! With record high unemployment rates jobs should be going directly to legal citizens. However, I doubt any real enforcement is actually going to happen.
Shelly B,
I think your idea is a start, but how would those waiting to be bumped up to a legal work visa live? If they’re not making a wage, how will they pay rent or buy food? If they cannot yet legally work, won’t they still be open to exploitation?
silver fox, I am a trouble maker. But that is how some employers feel, they feel the illegals work harder for less and therefore deserve the jobs more than Americans.
DB, if the crack down on employers really works, and it is impossible to find jobs in factories or businesses, then I imagine they’ll be doing jobs like the day laborers do. But they could also rely on family members who are allowed to work.
I’m thinking that the factories and businesses, if they can show that they cannot find people with right to work permits who are wiling to pick strawberries or clean sewers, then they can apply for permission to sponsor in some of those people, and they would get their worker status sooner than three years. I’m thinking this would flow with labor supply and labor demand, and Americans would get first dibs on the lower wage jobs. But as better jobs become available, then it would be harder to find Americans, and we start to sponsor in the people who are on a path to citizenship.
It would be really hard for these people. It would be hard for them to work. But in exchange for meeting the requirement of registering, they no longer have to live in fear of being arrested or deported and separated from their families. As long as the family is all together, I think they will survive. Better to have the family together and be poor than to be separated and have money.
@Rick Bentley
The employers are the number one enablers of the illegals as far as I am concerned. They are exploiting these people like the cyotes that may have brought them here to begin with. Employers need to be punished for hiring illegals as well be punished/fined for any and all violations of labor laws.
Haha! Who can’t be a trouble maker now and then?
Okay Shelly I see where you are going, and it does actually make sense in theory. Would said programs put quotas in place? The reason I ask is b/c in the past few years I’ve read about certain industries such as the crab industry in MD,the sea cucumber factory in Maine, where they (the companies) needed more workers than the quota allowed them (the companies) to apply for. As for the families that have registered and do not have work yet…would they be able to draw gov’t aid based upon their projected taxable income in the future? Should they be able to rely on WIC, medicaid etc? What about the children born here, while they wait for the legal opportunity to work? Would they qualify for benefits? What backlash would these registered, but non-working families face from the tax payers when it came to educating their children? Would this country end up with some sort of two-tiered system where there was one system (medical,SS,educational) for the registered, and yet another for the unregistered? How would driver licenses be handled? I don’t ask these questions b/c I want to pooh pooh your idea. I just wonder how we would deal with all the fine details, with out creating a new form of segregation.
In this melting economy and our lawmakers complete resistance to the US publics policies. American patriots must do the right thing and stop this violation of Federal law. No doubt it will be very difficult because the administration in power, is run by Left wing Democrats. Sen. David Vitter, Republican-LA has drafted S95, a law if enacted, could kill all funding to any city that is infamously branded a “Sanctuary City.” With indifference to American populations outcry any city that entertains as a refuge to illegal immigrants. They will have to search the deep pockets of their business co-conspirators, to insure costs for services. We all know the 50 Senators including Harry Reid, and Madam Pelosi who secretly suppressed e-verify, so that more than 300.000 illegal labor, could compete for jobs with American Workers.
What are any of these idiots thinking, when their are 10 million jobless Americans right now in these United States? They must be undead zombies not to realize without any logic, that we can’t afford to subsidize as estimated by the Heritage Foundation 40 million illegal aliens? Perhaps professional people in limited numbers with absolute skills in the scientific fields. But certainly not uneducated, indigent labor who competes with legal low skilled whites, blacks or any other color, creed or religion? We all must be bloody fools not to recognize, that California nearly went into a $47 billion dollar crash. Because of the payout to the illegal poor who have figured out the way to short change Americans of their pay checks. Also know America settles more new legal immigrants, than any place on Mother Earth. Over 1.5 million immigrants were nationalized last year.
Should this law get the backing of millions of Americans, we have the tremendous influence to sever most welfare benefits and government handouts, to anybody who steals into a sovereign country without being processed. In states like California where in just Los Angeles county alone, an estimated 4 million illegal nationals have settled there. The people’s safety net is now overwhelmed by families, who have learned to tap every social welfare program available. Legal or otherwise! Even Federal programs-for citizens only– has been compromised, including low income housing, pre-natal and after birth care, hospital emergency care, where the illegal uninsured, dumped on the entrance to a hospital by pirate contractors and business owners. It is Left for the taxpayer, to pick up the bill. Not just for major injury, but for flue, nail fungus or anything minor–and its free. All the while citizens are interrogated for their insurance card, social security number or money to pay. They get Scott-free care and we get a phone call from a debt collector or end up in front of a bankruptcy judge. California was just one state where local government has intentionally ignored the “Rule of Law.” Poor foreign nationals have turned our neighborhoods into littered streets and heinous crime scenes as never before in our history.
Today we have a slender chance to stop this caricature of our laws. Call, write, fax or phone and make your demands real to these pro-illegal immigrant legislators. It seems their arrogant attitude can overrule the will of THE PEOPLE. The president has already informed us that an Amnesty is being readied. The problem is after the 1986 Amnesty, we were avidly promised–NO MORE. If yet another Amnesty is passed, the impoverished outside our lands will keep coming. Taxpayers have–and will be a permanent–THE BEAST OF BURDEN. Taxpayer in-perpetuity will be expected to carry in social services for every lawbreaker. We cannot afford another Amnesty. Every family from Guatemala, Kowloon and Bombay can sponsor all and every relative they possess and you end up paying for our traitorous politicians.
Go to CAPSWEB to utilize their petition to condemn Sanctuary cities. Read the facts at NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIALWATCH, FAIR AND AMERICAN PATROL
I personally don’t think that there is any valid reason any company should be able to break the law just because of this or that. The law is the law, it’s illegal to hire illegal immigrants, period. The problem is that it’s not strictly enforced. Why have a law if you can just break it if you need to? It doesn’t make sense…
If it were strictly enforced I think it would be a good thing, take a look at our agriculture system and look at some of the countries in Europe. Their technology, as far as automation goes, is much better than ours. The problem with us is that it’s just cheaper to hire slave labor than to invest in R&D and new equipment. If you take that cheap, illegal labor away things will change. Necessity is the mother of invention. The problem with cheap, illegal labor is that it stifles invention of doing things a different or more efficient way.
DB, those are great points. I feel funny trying to answer because I’m not an expert at all! I’m just trying to find a way to get the sensible people on this blog to stop fighting and attacking. I’m getting sick of it, so I’m throwing this out there and if they don’t like it they can attack me. I don’t care.
Ugh. So, great points about business concerns. What to do?
On another thread there was a whole debate about cap and trade policy, which is a way of getting our industries to modernize and not pollute the air so much and make our country less dependent on foreign oil. Obama wants to do this, but people like Emma and Hello were saying this will hurt businesses and make the cost of energy more for consumers. Those concerns should be heard out. And I learned something from reading them explained by Emma and Hello.
Now you are saying the same deal is with the crab industry in MD, sea cucumbers, meat packing, vegetable harvesting, fruit harvesting, etc. We want a better national policy, but we don’t want to hurt our economy trying to grow itself out of a recession, nor do we want to pass extra costs onto consumers.
I remember people just railed against Bush and other conservatives who thought our national economy was more important than concerns how many people have legal status. Now, I see that Bush was right. All the immigration raids have contributed to the worsening economy. There was one raid in Iowa that effectively shut down an entire town. That’s not good.
Anyway, to answer your question, the quota for worker status people has to be MUCH MUCH MUCH larger than it is right now. It should meet the needs of these companies so they don’t go bankrupt. But, it should also be designed so that those jobs are offered to Americans FIRST. If companies can’t find Americans to take the jobs, then they apply for this sponsorship deal where they hire the formerly undocumented people who are on a six year path to citizenship.
For those people, it still takes six years to be citizens, but it no longer takes three years to be able to work.
I’m sure that wages will also be a sticking point. The industries say they cannot make a profit if they have to pay minimum wage to people who, they say, aren’t willing to work as hard (now I am working in Rick Bentley’s point, you see?) So then do we create a two-tiered minimum wage, where American citizens are be paid a minimum of six bucks but path-to-citizenship workers are paid three?
Maybe this sounds unfair, but these people would probably take the three bucks rather than go back to countries where there is no work at all or where they are politically persecuted.
Listen, the original 13 colonies, and everything we accomplished up until the Civil War was accomplished on the backs of African American slaves. (I suppose some would say they were not “American” until emancipation, but I consider them to have been Americans). Since then, immigration has provided the cheap labor our economy has needed to grow. One generation of immigrants comes here and works hard and earns a living for their families, and the next generation does a little better, and then they are not needing such low wage jobs. That’s why we always need a new group to come in.
Now that the economy is an important issue in everybody’s mind, or almost everybody, people should understand that the economy must be considered when we make these hard decisions. I just don’t understand people who say “send them all back and let the economy go to hell.” What good is that?
And let’s remember, those people who are here now “in the shadows,” most of them already have jobs. So it’s not like immigration reform would suddenly put more people out there looking for work. It would just be a way of making order out of chaos, where people are already working, and offering some of those jobs to unemployed Americans.
Hello, you are on the opposite side of the argument vs. what you said about cap and trade. Over there you don’t want government to insist on Research and Development to burn cleaner energy.
But here you advocate a government imposed, crazily radical, unprecedented and impossible to predict shock wave impact on our labor force. With millions of people and millions of jobs disappearing all of the sudden while we wait for inventors to come up with machines that can do that work instead. Are you sure?
Government can incentivise invention for the farming industry to replace people with machines, but not for the polluting industries to pollute less using cleaner burning fuels?
DB, I haven’t gotten that far as to comment on WIC. What is that anyway, workers comp? Regarding DB’s questions in the second half of her post: someone else help me please.
Touche ShellyB, good catch… however, simply enforcing a law that already exists and has existed for years is a little different than generating a back-door tax on energy.
For example, lets take cap and trade, if there was and has been a cap and trade law for years but companies just decided they weren’t going to pay it because it was more expensive. What do you think would happen? The government would MAKE them pay because it was law! What is the difference you ask? Hiring illegal immigrants is against the law and has been for years, cap and trade is a back-door tax to fund non-energy related policies.
Yes, I do support strict enforcement of already existing laws, No, I do not support cap and trade for obvious reasons.
Hello, I understand the existing law vs. changing the law principle, and that you are more adherent to existing laws than new ones.
But if it’s true in both cases, that enforcing a federal law would hurt business, pass a back-door tax to consumers, and stunt the growth of our economy, it just seems odd to take a rigid stance based on principle, but be on both sides of that principle depending on the issue.
I would rather look at both options with the big picture in mind, get input from business interests, labor interests, environmental interests, immigrant rights interests, and find a compromise policy that is best for the nation as a whole.
In both cases, I think we need to take an extra hard look at anything that might hurt the economy, and put extra hurt on Americans struggling through this recession. That’s why I listened to your cap and trade concerns and found them valid.
By hard look I meant “be careful and skeptical, but don’t be close-minded.”
WIC is a voucher program thru the department of health that gives, mothers, and or newborns vouchers to receive necessary foods. Mainly the foods are cereal, cheese, eggs, milk, juice, some more cheese, less than a month’s worth of formula, and yet some more cheese, and some juice, and another block of cheese,and in some cases fresh veggies, and more cheese/eggs. The requirements for WIC are higher than the requirements for food stamps. And unlike food stamps which entitles a family to spend a certain amount of money ea. month on what ever (excluding alcohol, dog food or cigs), WIC entitles families vouchers to buy formula, milk, juice,PB, cereal, and 1.5lbs of cheese each week. Seriously, the department of health has a cheese thing going on. I know thru experience.
But ShellyB, you say ‘I think we need to take an extra hard look at anything that might hurt the economy’ but at the same time your gung-ho for cap and trade? What’s that all a-boot?
Thanks for explaining, WIC, but I am no closer to knowing what the solution would be. I do know that the particular people we are talking about, people who are in currently in the country illegally, are getting by without such services. If I didn’t know about it, you can bet THEY don’t know about it. All this talk about “them illegals are using our services” just turned out to be more propaganda. These folks try to keep their heads down and their noses clean, which means not walking into government agencies to apply for services. So my point is: they are surviving without them now, so they could survive without them during the path-to-citizenship process. But I would not be opposed to allowing them to qualify. What do you think?
Well I was gung-ho because I thought the only objection was Eric Cantor’s big lie. But then I was able to see past that thanks to what you and Emma wrote on another thread.
That was for, Hello, re. Cap and Trade.
Sounds good! I always thought that really cracking down on employers would take away incentive and more properly punish the cause of the problem (or one of the biggest causes, that is). I couldn’t stand that Republicans wouldn’t crack down on employers hard because of pressure from the Chambers of Commerce. Made me sick. I’d be curious to see any metrics that show the effectiveness of this tactic vs. the round ’em up and deport method.
I agree Slowpoke, if the incentives dry up less people would want to be here illegally and will start to come the right way. The problem is that the incentives are too great, ready jobs by unscrupulous employers and lack of enforcement in general. So far the tactics being used may discourage people from moving to certain areas but it doesn’t do much to stem the flow. The incentives are just too great, I would welcome the new tactic (wow, I can’t believe it’s a ‘new’ tactic) of going after the employers.
Wanna a kick in the rear?…Spent the day in DC at the American History Museum. Went to the Lincoln exhibit w/ my son. Ya’know that hugely tall hat that Linc allegedly wore? You know the illustrations. Actually, the hat is less than 11 inches tall. My son took one look at it and said “I guess it shrunk in the wash.”
LOL. That’s so cute, shrunk in the wash!
What a joy to get a funny story and some agreement on such a thorny issue in one check up on this blog.
That is a cute story, DB. I thought that hat would be at least 2 ft tall!
Kudos to those of you who are beginning to find some consensus and actually work out some solutions. What a refreshing change. We should put these ideas all together and send them to Washington with a PS that says, “If it can happen in Prince William, it’s possible anywhere.” Of course that would apply to both the good and the bad.
I have something to add to the crack down on employers and incremental path to citizenship proposal.
When a factory or business is caught hiring undocumented workers, the fines and penalties should not be so severe that they cripple the business irreparably. So, no prison terms. We want the business to continue, but we want them to hire American workers if at all possible. So, let’s give them a fine of $5000 per worker, BUT that fine is reduced to $500 if they replace the worker with an American citizen. This would create an incentive to find American workers to do the job, and thus bring the pay rate high enough to attract people who are protected by labor laws (American citizens) as opposed to people who can be exploited.
And in between, if they file for and receive a guest worker slot, the fine is only $1000. In that case, they can hire back the same undocumented people that were already working there, or hire others who had been undocumented but are now in the in-between status mentioned above.
I say this because Americans understand that cracking down on so many industries will hurt our economy. But they don’t see how any other option would help the economy. So what ever option is presented, it should be shown to help the economy and create job opportunities for Americans.
It should be presented as “identifying jobs currently being held by undocumented immigrants, and giving Americans the opportunities to take those jobs,” but without crippling the businesses that need the workers.
Makes no sense JustinT. You are familiar with the mathematical concept of expected value?
The chances of an individual business being prosecuted are small. So to provide real disincentive the penalties must be large.
And, for fairness, they should be large enough that they hurt the business so that HONEST competitors who play by the rules can take some market share.
“cracking down on so many industries will hurt our economy” – Not if the emplyers know that it’s real. They will divest themselves of illegal workers, illegal immigrants will start to self-deport, and Americans will take those jobs – at higher wages.
That’s funny, Rick. Because I was going to say $5,000 was too high of a penalty, because a lot of those industries employ hundreds of workers. Let’s say a farming company employs 100 undocumented workers. That would be a half a million dollars if these companies cannot find American workers and lower the fine. Or even if they manage to employ 50 American citizens, that’s still $250,000 which would put any farming industry out of business.
I think we should try not to cut off noses to spite faces, or hack off limbs because of hang nails, or whatever he phrase may be.
If this legislation is fueled by a thirst for revenge or a relief of anger, or personal problems people have with social issues, it will just cause too much damage to the country.
The economy is our life blood. It affects all of our lives and our ability to defend our nation. We can’t approach something this important out of anger or resentment.
But I do think that the fines that can be reduced if the companies comply with the law is a good idea.
@JustinT
@JustinT
These shady businesses with bad hiring practices should be penalized to fullest extent of the law. If they go out of business, too damn bad! Their undercutting, etc. is running decent businesses out of business. Rick is absolutely right in his last post.
I for one will spend my hard earned money at the business that chooses to follow the law. I don’t want to business with a company that exploits their employees either.
Hey, times are tough right now. I’m sure there are plenty of Americans ready to do some of these jobs that some claim, “no American will do”. I think Americans are lot more willing to do jobs that they might oridinarily turn their noses up, given the current economic climate.
How do you all know Americans won’t do these jobs? Especially, given the fact these jobs are already taken by illegal aliens. Geesh. I think some of you should give your fellow countrymen a little more credit for being hard working Americans. The illegals do NOT have the market cornered on working hard.
What will really be a wild card here is if somebody manages to sue someone else for big damages on the fact that they hired illegal workers.
Of course, the US Government is still providing protection against this happening by obscuring who is legal and who is not and providing phony systems that let employers take down phony SSNs and pretend they’re real.
Still, maybe someday. Watch for some type of “class action” bs to be thrown into any Amnesty proposal if it ever gets near happening, that immunizes all the scumbags currently hiring illegal workers.
ShellyB, I am in favor of hacking off employers’ limbs as punishment! In a literal way. Or maybe just cut off their noses. That’s a good idea now that you mention it.
Meanwhile it’s good to have a record of who’s doing what – please report all use of illegal labor to http://www.wehirealiens.com so that it can be preserved.
Off Topic:
Someone has sent me a dark screen post accusing me of trashing AWCheney. That person making the statement is a liar. I have never done any such thing. I consider Mrs. Cheney a friend and have never trashed her on this blog or on any other blog.
I believe if illegal aliens are caught with false/stolen documents they should be sent immidiately back to your country of origin. What about our American children when they go to obtain school loans, etc., and can’t because their credit has be trashed before they are even of legal age? These people are stealing ID’s and then stealing jobs from Americans and those from other countries that have the right and all the paper work to work in the US.
Identity Theft is happening in Puerto Rico too. Did anyone see this article in the WaPo a couple of weeks ago?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/31/AR2009033101933.html
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico — An identity-theft ring that catered to illegal immigrants seeking to establish themselves in the U.S. stole the personal data of 7,000 public school children in Puerto Rico, officials said Tuesday.
Members of the ring broke into about 50 schools across the U.S. island territory over the past two years to steal birth certificates and Social Security numbers to sell to the illegal immigrants, the FBI and other agencies announced at a news conference.
@Moon-howler
AWC knows the truth. Wow, things must pretty slow over there.
With the recent events that have befallen our economy, both locally and nationally, we are all us fast becoming economics savvy as a people. When you talk about shady business practices, I think about the securitized mortgage scams and credit default swaps and ponzi schemes that hammered the global economy and all of our 401K’s in one big, greedy dereglulating swoop.
So, while I understand your anger at all those who conduct shady business practices. I totally share them. But there is little you can really do in the way of boycott. You’d basically have to start growing your own food or just stop eating. I think perhaps the only bank I could bank with is Wells Fargo.
I think these crooks are a lot worse from a utilitarians sense. The Wall Street pigs all got fat gambling your money and my money. Now their all retired in the Bahamas. The lettuce picking industry never harmed me at all. In fact, it has made it more affordable for me to put food on the table for my family.
But we could go round and round about which is worse from a moral standpoint. The real point is that the federal government, Republican or Democratically led, is not going to do anything to further damage the economy, especially not during a period when we all know the real life affects of an economic collapse.
We have record unemployment in the U.S. right now. We are talking about an approach that would bring people out of the shadows, and encourage transferring their jobs to American citizens, instead of making those jobs disappear so that no one is doing them, and we all have to pay more for food and many other products.
@Chris
@JustinT
I agree with you completely on the mortgage companies, etc. Those shady mortgage deals that led to default and foreclosure have KILLED the property values. Especially in PWC, and heaven forbin you live in an older established neighborhood with tons of foreclosures. At one point twelve out of thirty houses on my block were vacant all due to foreclosures. I’m a title examiner in this county and see this first hand day in, and day out.
I do grow my own veggies and some fruit every summer. I get a few things from the Farmer’s Market from some people in WVA that most certainly are not illegal aliens. I get eggs from a friend in Nokesville, and meat from family friend that’s a farmer. I can assure no grocery store can compete with that cost and/or quality.
The federal government has failed horribly in regards to immigration and enforcement. Oh, and don’t even get me started on the fact we need all of borders secure, and this includes all ports of entry. Both parties suck(imho)
With regards to not doing business with places. I only speaking of my one woman boycott. I do grow my own veggies and some fruit every summer. I get a few things from the Farmer’s Market from some people in WVA that most certainly are not illegal aliens. I get eggs from a friend in Nokesville, and meat from family friend that’s a farmer. I can assure no grocery store can compete with that cost and/or quality.
I do think those residing here illegally should have to come out of the shadows and register with US authorities. However, I don’t feel just because they’ve done so entitles them to a job or anything else the US has to offer. I certainly don’t think they should get a free pass over those that have been waiting to come here legally. I also, am pragmatic and realize we can not deport 12+million humans. I do realize and consider the fact we are talking about human beings.
Excuse the double post of one paragraph. 🙁
@Moon-howler
Chris is right Moon-howler…I know the truth. If you can read the thread, you will see that I was trying to get a little civility in the discussion. Difficult, at best.
Correction: “into” the discussion
AWCheney, I get my ‘mail’ sent to me, per our discussion. grin. I haven’t seen the entire thread.