Just read this story, and if I understand it properly, it suggests boycotting so that localities don’t receive additional federal funding that could be used for ‘crackdowns’. Additionally, it wouldn’t allow the nativists to point to census data about foreign born individuals. Is it required by law that we participate in the census? This sounds interesting… I will investigate further.
Some Hispanic advocacy groups are calling for illegal immigrants to boycott the 2010 Census unless immigration laws are changed. The move puts them at odds with leading immigrant rights advocates and creates another hurdle in the Census Bureau’s quest to count everyone in the USA.
The National Coalition of Latino Clergy & Christian Leaders, a group that says it represents 20,000 evangelical churches in 34 states, issued a statement this week urging undocumented immigrants not to fill out Census forms unless Congress passes “genuine immigration reform.”
Similar grass-roots campaigns are unfolding in Arizona and New Mexico to protest state and local crackdowns on illegal immigrants. Asking immigrants to be counted without giving them a chance to become legal residents counters church teachings, says the Rev. Miguel Rivera, president of the Latino religious coalition.
When the Census counts growing numbers of Hispanics, the counts are often used to support crackdowns on illegal immigrants, he says. About 38% of the churches’ 3.4 million members are undocumented, he says. The Census Bureau does not ask people if they are here illegally.
Federal funding and apportionment of seats in the U.S. House of Representatives are based on a Census of the population every 10 years. Not counting the estimated 12 million immigrants who are here illegally would send less money to states and cities that have large numbers of undocumented residents and could shift political clout elsewhere.
“We know it will hurt a lot of cities,” Rivera says.
That’s the bargaining chip boycott supporters are using to lobby lawmakers to issue temporary work visas for undocumented workers and give them a way to become citizens.
The call for a boycott “may be well-intended but misguided and ultimately irresponsible,” says Arturo Vargas, executive director of the National Association of Latino Elected Officials and a member of a Census advisory panel.
“There is a sense of desperation and frustration among some immigrant rights leaders” that Congress has not taken action on such issues, Vargas says. They should give the new administration a chance, he says.
That is not allaying concerns in states that have imposed sanctions on employers who hire illegal immigrants or in cities and counties that have given police the power to enforce immigration laws.
In Phoenix, immigrant advocates such as Alfredo Gutierrez, host of a daily radio program on a Spanish station, threaten a Census boycott to protest crackdowns on illegal immigrants.
In Roswell, N.M., businessman Bobby Villegas launched a campaign in February to get undocumented workers to boycott the Census. He’s doing it as the city nears 50,000 population, a mark that would give it the government designation as a metropolitan area, which puts cities on the map for national marketers and retailers.
“Are we going to bring more money in the community so that they can hire more police officers who then will go out after more undocumented?” Villegas asks.
The Roswell Hispano Chamber of Commerce he helped found voiced support for the Census, but “it’s going to be very hard to reach these individuals and say, ‘Trust me,’ ” says Juan Oropesa, executive director.
Nationally, efforts to have the Census reach Hispanics get backing from major Spanish-speaking media and organizations. For the first time, the Census will send forms in English and Spanish to about 13 million households in areas that have a high concentration of Hispanics.
That seems rather irresponsible since their congressional representation is based on census. State representation, at least in VA is also based on the census. I understand that even little old Prince William County will be redistricted.
I look forward to Mr. Covington being my new supervisor and told him so several months ago.
I think I can get behind this!
Here’s a very good reality show on a staunch, uncompromising Minuteman who moves into a household of undocumented immigrants for 30 days.
The effect on this man’s humanity as he gets to know these people and their struggle is very moving:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/56908/30-days-immigration
Well there you go. I’ve said it before. In order to support the defense “how do you know they’re illegal?” you have to prevent asking the question, and this is just another scheme to prevent asking the question. Never would I have believed that people ‘ILLEGALLY’ in this country could band together and publicly state their intensions and we sit back and do nothing. By the way, ILLEGALS weren’t sited on the DHS report were they, but those who oppose it are the ones to fear. The government made the law, we support it, now we are the bad guys. That has to tell you something about the mind set of this administration! Elena and Alanna must be in heaven.
There are two other ideas I have about how undocumented folks could “show us”. First, more “days without an illegal immigrant”…..that would really show us how our lives could not possibly go on without you. Then, there’s your ace in the hole…you could go home. Think of how sad we’ll all be when you have gone home. I bet we’ll all be really upset then. C’mon, show us what’s what!
This makes no sense (not participating in the census). It would probably affect federal funding for schools. Then again I guess those that don’t participate in the census don’t care if the schools get underfunded – although you would think they’d care if their children went to them. I thought (maybe I’m wrong) some of ESOL is paid for by federal funding.
I also thought the new administration already put a halt to workplace raids, so I’m not sure what it is they are hoping to achieve by this.
Gainesville – you are correct. Federal dollars are given for ESOL. Federal dollars are also given for free and reduced lunch and school sponsored health insurance for children who do have any. Special ed and title I use federal dollars. It’s based on the national and local census.
Moonhowler –
They aren’t getting representation in certain areas so what are they losing? Of course, this seems to be a targeted response to certain areas and not the entire country.
As long as La Raza and ACORN are involved, every American should boycott the census. Why should one group or party be allowed to manipulate the information to their advantage? This census will be about redistricting using information about people that have no right to vote to control those who do.
You Wish – thanks for confirming what I thought. In that case, boycotting the census is only going to hurt their children in the schools, for those who don’t partake in the census and have children, which probably is a fairly large percentage of the immigrant population.
It is more than just about representation in certain areas, it is about money to the schools. Of course, I suppose they won’t care as long as they perceive their children are getting education and other things at the schools. Instead, it will become the burden of the municipalities where their numbers are under represented to make up the costs. Doesn’t seem fair to me – again this is more than just about representation in congress.
Just in time,
The loss of money for schools, okay that’s problematic. But, in terms of redistricting should they really be counted because they aren’t voters. Why should they be counted as such?
The purpose of the census is to count everyone, voters or not. Children are counted – and it should not matter whether they are children of voters or not. Especially when it comes to money for the schools. So what is being said is that because of this, people who DID take the census will be paying more than their fare share for the schools, in areas where some percentage of people are refusing to take the census. That is just not fair.
Why can’t Hispanic Americans vote if they are citizens? Good point about school funds.
We really need to know the population of the country. I have to agree with Gainesville on this one.
Although I understand the reasoning/hope of having more clout behind this proposal, it seems to me to be cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face. The redistricting with its accompanying school funds should reflect the actual population.
I’m just happy this article mentions local “crackdowns” but doesn’t include PWC. Maybe that’s progress???
Censored – I have a feeling they weren’t thinking about school funding when they proposed this. Not a good idea, putting the quality of their children’s education at risk.
Ignore the Census? Hey, is Greg Letieq behind this? A real
shoot-yourself-in-the-foot nut-head plan.
This plan to not participate in the census doesn’t sound like it was thought out very well.
Food for thought, you are so right! LOL!
I think this is once again a lose-lose.
If illegal immigrants come out of the shadows, they risk their very lives.
If they don’t, they risk their (and our) socio-economic well being.
Until immigration is fixed, issues like these will continue to plague us on every level.
Social unrest is a bad thing. It can cause a country to collapse. Our federal government better do something POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE soon.
Alanna, I have been thinking about your question and I have re-read the article. I can’t think of a good reason. However, I am sure there is one. I hadn’t read thoroughly when I responded. I missed the illegal part.
Alanna, in response to your question…true, they are not getting representation – because they are not citizens, yet, their children attend the same schools with programs (ESOL) that are funded by money divided up by population numbers, not numbers of citizens.
In addition, there are other federal grants and monies based upon the number of residents (not citizens) that impact quality of life issues like social services, transportation etc.
So while they don’t have direct representation (and I don’t think they should participate in our democracy as non-citizens) they are impacted in many ways simply by being counted. That population only hurts themselves by not participating.
I went to the census website to get more information, because I wanted to be sure what I thought was actually correct.
“What is the Census?
* The census is a count of everyone living in the United States every 10 years.
* The census is mandated by the U.S. Constitution.
* The next census is in 2010.
* Your participation in the census is required by law.
* It takes less than 10 minutes to complete.
* Federal law protects the personal information you share during the census.
* Census data are used to distribute Congressional seats to states, to make decisions about what community services to provide, and to distribute $300 billion in federal funds to local, state and tribal governments each year.
From http://2010.census.gov/2010census/
So it is required by law to participate.
“Census affects funding in your community
Census data directly affect how more than $300 billion per year in federal and state funding is allocated to communities for neighborhood improvements, public health, education, transportation and much more. That’s more than $3 trillion over a 10-year period. Spending just a few minutes to fill out your census form will help ensure your community gets its fair share of federal and state funding.”
From http://2010.census.gov/2010census/about_2010_census/007625.html
So not only does it affect education funding, but WIC/food stamps, free and reduced lunch program, health benefits (medicaid/medicare).
Pinko, it states that the information gathered is not released and protected.
“We Protect Your Information
The surveys we conduct provide information about social and economic conditions in the country, including employment, housing, manufacturing, trade, and many other topics. The questions we ask are used only to produce statistics, and you are never identified individually. For more information on how we protect your information, please see our Data Protection and Privacy Policy website.”
So, I’m not sure how their lives would be at risk by participating in census.
Rebecca – nobody said Hispanic American’s can’t vote – if they are citizens, they have the right to vote.
While the parents are not legal residents, often the children are citizens. Enough reason for me. I just had to think about it. Change gears as it were.
Plus, it is the right thing to do.
There is just something I don’t like about refusing to participate. That is what you do if you live in this country. I don’t like filling out school forms either since my kids no longer are in public school.
“The surveys we conduct provide information about social and economic conditions in the country, including employment, housing, manufacturing, trade, and many other topics. The questions we ask are used only to produce statistics, and you are never identified individually. For more information on how we protect your information, please see our Data Protection and Privacy Policy website.”
It doesn’t say anything about protecting information on citizenship.
The Feds can do whatever they want with information simply because if they want to change the rules, they can.
Outside of that, we have had hundreds of information leaks in every federal department just over the past year or so. (I’m not even including things like people’s laptops being stolen.)
It wouldn’t matter if people weren’t personally identified. Suppose, for example, the census showed 50 people in PWC were here illegally. Don’t you think there would be a witch hunt for those 50 people? We’ve had witch hunts here and we didn’t even HAVE the numbers or information.
If I, as an American citizen am this distrustful of our government, can you imagine what these folks feel?
This information isn’t going to help us fix the problem. Fix the problem and then get the census. Give these folks a reason to want to come out of the shadows.
Please show me where on this form citizenship is asked for. From what I can see, it’s not even asked.
http://2010.census.gov/2010census/pdf/2010_Questionnaire_Info_Copy.pdf
“10 Questions, 10 Minutes to Complete
With one of the shortest questionnaires in history, the 2010 Census asks for name, gender, age, race, ethnicity, relationship, and whether you own or rent your home. It takes only about 10 minutes for the average household to complete.”
Citizenship isn’t even asked for. Again, much ado about nothing.
This is what it asks for:
➜ NOTE: Please answer BOTH Question 5 about Hispanic origin and Question 6 about race. For this census, Hispanic origins are not races.
5. Is this person of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin?
No, not of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin
Yes, Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano
Yes, Puerto Rican
Yes, Cuban
Yes, another Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin — Print origin, for example, Argentinean, Colombian, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Salvadoran, Spaniard, and so on.
6. What is this person’s race? Mark one or more boxes.
White
Black, African Am., or Negro
American Indian or Alaska Native — Print name of enrolled or principal tribe.
Asian Indian
Chinese
Filipino
Other Asian — Print race, for example, Hmong, Laotian, Thai, Pakistani, Cambodian, and so on.
Japanese
Korean
Vietnamese
Native Hawaiian
Guamanian or Chamorro
Samoan
Other Pacific Islander — Print race, for example, Fijian, Tongan, and so on.
Some other race — Print race.
The census didn’t ask citizenship last time, and I received the long form which was sent to some smaller percentage of households and asked a lot more detailed information. It probably has never asked citizenship, and I think if you look at the results from last time you’ll see there is no breakdown in citizenship numbers for any given area. The results are right out there on the internet on the US Census website.
If the census only counted citizens or voters, what good would it be? Somehow, there has to be a count of people in each municipality to determine things like school funding, etc. from the federal level. Boycotting the census will only serve to cause underfunding from the federal government to those municipalities that are boycotted in large numbers. That doesn’t seem fair to the residents of those municipalities.
It would seem if someone actively refuses to take the census, then there should be some criminal liability for doing so. Apparently it is the law that you are to fill out the census form.
If you are going to worry about information on computers, you should worry more about the banks you deal with, the credit card companies, doctors/hospitals, etc. They have an awful lot more info on you than is in the census! Also many of them have very insecure computer systems, much moreso than US gov’t computers.
Are you talking about the US Census or the state census that tracks how many children live in a certain school district that are of the ages 0-18years. As far as the state/school census goes, all children are counted so that the local school jurisdictions receive state funds for education. I was once part of a team that knocked on doors in my jurisdiction and asked tenants of ALL homes to provide the name and ages of each and every child 0 to 18 that lived in the home. We never asked who the parents were, we never even asked the parents their names, we simply collected the names of the children so that the school district could collect funds from the state (distribution of lottery proceeds). To refuse to give the state information results in less funding for the school system that educates their children. This is not only detrimental to the school system, but detrimental to their own children and their education.
No citizenship isn’t listed. You are correct. I thought they were planning to ask about citizenship.
That said, I can STILL understand why these people don’t want to answer the census. Suppose, for example, the census says there are 8-10 Hispanic people living in 25% of the homes in PWC. Once again, won’t that kind of information cause a witch hunt? Won’t the assumption be, “Hey…I bet they are all illegals”? Of course this will happen because people make those assumptions right now! All the data will do is increase the paranoia.
I’m not saying that refusing to answer a census is a good thing. I don’t think it’s a good thing for a variety of reasons.
What I am saying is that I understand why these folks wouldn’t want to complete the census. And this reticence to share information isn’t limited to immigrants.
We are all living in an atmosphere of fear. There’s a reason for that, and until we fix that reason, we are going to bankrupt ourselves in more ways than one.
Pinko,
I don’t think you understand how census information is disseminated.
Click on the following link for the PWC census information from 2000.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51/51153.html
Now, please show me where it breaks down the information that says “8 – 10 Hispanic people live in 25% of the houses”.
No information is presented that way. It is an overall percentage, not individual numbers.
“These people” need to get the facts and look at what data the census does and does not tell.
And please note before I get jumped all over for saying “these people”, I am simply quoting the verbiage that Pinko used in her previous post:
“That said, I can STILL understand why these people don’t want to answer the census.”
I have seen and used census reports.
What you see on the online report isn’t what the census bureau sees.
That data can be manipulated and misused like any other kind of data.
Sorry. I’m just not that trusting, and I can understand why others might not be either.
You’re contradicting yourself. You didn’t know that citizenship status wasn’t asked on the census. You stated “Suppose, for example, the census says there are 8-10 Hispanic people living in 25% of the homes in PWC” and when it was shown to you that it was not this way, you come back with “well, it can be manipulated”.
Did you bother to click on the link? Did you look at the separate data sets that are listed for the state and county?
There have been several posts about what information is and isn’t included in the census and you refuse to believe it. All I can say is, if you encourage people not to fill out the census, then don’t complain when there is limited funding for education, health or transportation services.
I don’t think that is what Pinko is saying. She is not encouraging anyone to do anything. She is simply saying she can understand why certain members of the population might not want to participate in the census. This rebuttal seems to be turning awfully personal. Why is that?
What nobody seems to be addressing is that the refusal of the illegal aliens to participate in the census (aside from the fact that they will be breaking the law…again) to the detriment of the communities in which they live will fuel community action to get them out of those communities…it’s inevitable.
Nothing personal MH – just trying to understand that when information is shown to someone by several different individuals, there is continued disbelief.
And my comment about encouraging people not to fill out the census wasn’t directed towards Pinko – I should have clarified that.
AWC makes a good point – it’s almost like a vicious circle
Sorry, should read “trying to understand why when information . . .”, not that.
Fact of real life, immigration issues aside, the state NEEDS to know how many children live in each and every school system 0-18, born here or somewhere else. This information is how the schools get money..end of story. Nobody cares about the status of any family, the parent are not even asked to give their names. Believe it or not, schools don’t really give a hoot where you came from, they’re just interested in getting the tax money due to them so that they can do their thing…educate.
Thank you DB – that’s the main point.
An observation re. KGotthardt, through a Limbaugh glass darkly.
There is no politician who likes Rush Limbaugh. There is no politician who agrees with him (despite what Paul Begala would like you to think). But there are some politicians who fear him … or more accurately, fear his ability to manipulate the minds of his listeners.
As you might have guessed, Letiecq is Limbaugh in my equation. My focus is the controversial Covington appointment … the votes, and more importantly the words on the subject, offered by our Board of County Supervisors.
There are no District Supervisors who like Greg Letiecq (nor do they enjoy any of the women who appear at Board meetings on his behalf, and spend their waking hours using computer keyboards as weapons of war against any and all who disagree with him).
There are no Supervisors who share Letiecq’s views (save perhaps Stirrup). But there ARE some on our Board who fear him … or to be precise, fear his ability to manipulate his readers.
This fear is a testament to Letiecq’s mastery of hate politics, to his acumen with internet technology, and, most importantly, to the astoundingly low opinion the Supervisors have of the people of this county.
I predicted the votes of the six Supervisors who applied a consistent philosophy to each of the two contested appointments in recent months … Ms. Gotthardt and Mr. Duecaster. And I particularly applaud Mr. Covington for showing both leadership and courage. But that is another subject.
Stewart completely reversed himself, proving himself the partisan of partisans … and forcing me to relinquish what little respect I had left for him. When Duecaster’s blog posts were the issue, Stewart said that such writings were too insignificant, and too difficult to verify to be considered as evidence by a serious governing body. Then, not six months later, Stewart bases his vote, and his “outrage performance” entirely on a the very type of writing he had formerly dismissed. Worse, he evidenced no shame, nor even awareness of his hypocrisy as he did so. This is the most cowardly and faithless flip-flop I have seen from Mr. Stewart … and there have been not a few.
But this is not what sticks in my craw.
And neither is it the fact that Stirrup did not afford Mr. Covington the same courtesy that Mr. Covington afforded Mr. Stirrup when their roles were reversed. We’ve all come to expect the least and the lowest from Stirrup, and he never disappoints.
No, it’s those damned performances!
Their scripted and rehearsed outrage! Their denouncement of such “horrible keystrokes,” cut and pasted into an incredible 22 emails, after being cut and pasted off of a blog, after being cut and pasted from another blog. These cut and pasted words are so bad, I must make a statement to show that yes, yes, yes! I think they are bad!
But why?
Why the dramatic presentations? Why not just silent a thumb on the “nay” button?
Fear of Letiecq? Fear of his followers? No. The Supervisors couldn’t give a crap about Letiecq and the other five people who sent them 22 emails all tolled, or how the six of them plan to vote 30 months from now.
But they DO care what this amorphous beast called the public thinks. And they think we are too stupid to comprehend anything more sophisticated than a sound byte. If not for these performances, perhaps Letiecq would have blogged against them, and we the people would have mindlessly concluded Supervisor X does not sufficiently love his or her county?
Are the Supervisors still shell-shocked from 2007? Do they think our county is still gripped by all that hate and fear? Is it? Or did we just have a temporary relapse? Could the result of 2007 be that the Board’s enduring measure of our intelligence is now so abysmally low that several of them felt it necessary to dress up as thespians for a day … and perform an “Ode to Outrage” … just in case the people of Prince William County are so dim-witted and suggestible that we still accept without questioning any dubious interpretation that Greg Letiecq feeds us, despite all the lies he’s told us over the years? Just in case we are vapid and confused enough to believe for one second that there is any substance whatsoever in this electronically generated “outrage” or this generic brand “controversy,” other than a festering but minuscule personal vendetta, an obsessive hatred harbored for the one woman in this county who was, and still is, as fearless and ferocious in confronting this hateful mob as the Supervisors SHOULD HAVE BEEN when it G-D DAMNED EFFING counted?!?
WHWN,
You are dead wrong! I have a recorded copy of the marathon meeting on the Resolution that clearly shows Mr. Deucaster saying exactly what was on his mind. Anything he typed on a blog was a repeat of what he publicly stated. If I look hard enough I could probably locate KGotthardt’s statements if she participated. Everyone who voted Mr. Deucaster in knew exactly what his views were, so forget that this all has to do with blog content, it doesn’t.
GASP!!!! I’m utterly shocked!!
“These people” = people who don’t want to participate in the census, not Hispanics.
Nice try.
Incidentally, I know who You Wish is, and I know about the dirty laundry aired on BVBL. It’s too bad, really, that the discussion, no matter how contentious, can’t be focused on immigration.
@Second-Alamo I don’t have time to disprove your statement until the weekend at the earliest. In the mean time, would you care to research your claims, check their accuracy, and then perhaps restate them? I suggest you look at the Board’s public statements from September 23, 2008 and then try again.
http://www.pwcgov.org/MeetingRoom.aspx
The Supervisors did not take issue with Mr. Duecaster’s Citizen’s Time statements, nor did they seem to recall them (hundreds of people spoke on Oct. 16, many with equal passion). The decision was made based on printed copies of blog comments, and whether, based on those comments, they could properly make a judgment as to Mr. Duecaster’s qualification.
Do you often make statements thatt are factually incorrect rather than disputing the merits of an argument? If so, I hadn’t noticed.
WHWN-
The subject about which you and SA are talking deserves more than a passing reference in the comments section of an unrelated story. We probably need to discuss this through a separate blog post!
You know, blogs are what started this latest spat in the first place. Do we really need to dredge this up here? Seriously. I’ve tried again and again to explain my use of strong language, but no one listens. So why bother with it here on Anti? Do I really feel like explaining it AGAIN on a blog (any blog) where people don’t read or listen or who have preconceived notions? No, I do not.
If the BOCS doesn’t want me on a VOLUNTEER committee, then I’m fine with that.
But they should recognize that this IS a freedom of speech issue, one that squelches civic engagement. They should also recognize that the loudest critics (on any side of any issue) are often those who care the most. And it’s far better to invite people like me into the process than to engage in some piddly form of retaliation.
None of this is something I can address, though. I have neither the power nor authority nor the time to do so.
I had the best of intentions when I volunteered for that committee, and Mr. Covington was smart to appoint me. He is pro-civic engagement and pro-freedom of speech. I don’t agree with him on some things, but that doesn’t matter. He understands that people who feel they have no voice start to yell. I respect him for that insight.
Excluding Mr. Nohe and Mr. May, if the rest of the BOCS can’t grasp all this, then it’s their problem, not mine.
I mean this sincerely. Even if you hate my guts, you should give me the benefit of the doubt when I say the committee decision doesn’t matter because I have enough on my volunteer plate as it is, volunteer opportunities that will truly allow me to help move this county in a positive direction.
These are all really interesting points about the Board, consistency vs. hypocrisy, and Letiecq’s intimidation tactics. I agree with Food for Thought that this is the REAL story, and no one is talking about it. At least not here. Food for Thought, why don’t you tell us what you think? I seem to recall WHWN is right and Second Alamo is wrong about recent PWC history.
Pinko, we are not dredging it up, but just trying to make sense of what is happening to our government. Something has gone terribly wrong, and what happened Tuesday is just a minor symptom IMHO.