A group of seven congregations from Topeka, Kansas came to town and set up outside of Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda to protest the supposed life style of poet Walt Whitman, for whom the school was named.
Amidst police officers on foot and on horseback, these activists scream hate speech through bullhorns at anyone who will listen, using terms like fag, queer, and worse. They profess to know what God thinks and who He likes and dislikes.
Students, parents, and alumni like up along the campus in counter-protest, chanting for the intruders to go home and to chant their school name.
***Warning! Video contains offensive language and hate speech***
This is the same group from Westboro Baptist Church [warning: website contains hate speech and explicit language] in Topeka that make a practice of attending military funerals to scream out about gays in the military.
The students are a captive audience. They don’t choose where they attend school yet they are subjected to this diatribe from out-of-towners who should have nothing to say about the school name.
All of a sudden I am not so sure I am in favor of free speech if this is what it represents. I need to be careful what I wish for. This Westboro group sure brings out the down side of free speech and supposed ‘Christianity.’
Full story in the Washington Post Metro section.
No, it’s not simple. Too many cases are not so precise. Who do you think was behind Tim McVeigh’s message or act? Specific groups who used him as a pawn? Or was he a mentally ill, suggestible, angry lone person? Was he an extremist? Assassin? Terrorist? Is there a difference? If you think he was one and not the other, what’s the difference?
Anesthesia, is there a slippery slope when political parties purposefully use rhetoric intended to demonize their opposition? The opposition is said to bring on the end of civilization as we know it; they’re compared to actual terrorists who have hurt this country; etc. I think most moderate people view these types of statements with nervousness because they are statements which tend to aggravate the loony fringe and possibly incite them to action/violence. I think most of us would rather have an administration with which we can disagree than have a violent banana republic.
“no one addressed the most recent attack that was just vulgar”
Life’s too short to repeatedly respond to every troll-styled comment. Stupid posts speak for themselves, usually.
Rick, you are probably right. Most of those kinds of comments go uncommented upon here. However, I expect the same standard both places. I don’t want to hear outrage here over some comment that someone makes here while that kind of sh*t stands over there day after day after day. Go challenge the dark master first over unacceptable remarks before there is a hue and cry over posts made here that are far less offensive, in my book.
“Anesthesia, is there a slippery slope when political parties purposefully use rhetoric intended to demonize their opposition?”
I believe there is, Censored by bvbl.
However, as thinking human beings, it is up to us to discern truth from fiction, good leadership from bad. As a society of thinking people, we should not put up with parties who divide our nation and nurture anger instead of unity. This is why voter education is so important. We do not want voters so easily manipulated that they merely accept whatever is being told to them.
When leaders use demonizing rhetoric, they give permission for extremists to act out. When other leaders do not step in and say, “enough is enough,” the volatile parts of human nature surface even faster.
The extremists and leaders then align themselves with one another, creating an accepting environment for hatred, prejudice and other kinds of unhealthy attitudes that eventually, more than likely, will lead to violence the more it escalates.
This is exactly what has happened in Prince William County.
Sorry to jump in there, Anesthesia. I just really connected to what you were saying and felt the need to respond.
No problem, Posting as Pinko. I completely agree with your analysis.
Anesthesia, sometimes Pinko gets passionate about her ideas 😉
“When leaders use demonizing rhetoric, they give permission for extremists to act out.”
You mean like this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSmNEupHWjs#
This is an infamous, and oft-made speech, by the founder of LaRaza that is being financed by major corporations (Ford Foundation, Bill Gates, etc.) and is also receiving some of that stimulus money…and has often been cited as a mainstream organization on this site.
I have noticed that, Moon Howler. I do not think that is a bad thing. The problem is, passionate dialog gets muddled a bit if the conversation does not promote clarification and real communication. Blogs do not often provide a forum for intelligent discussion, which is why I avoid many blogs.
AWCheney, demonizing rhetoric can come from anyone at any time. Part of the survival mechanism instilled in human beings tells us to rid ourselves of anything we perceive as a threat. If we do not place a check on that instinct, if we act on our primitive instincts instead of using our higher thinking skills, we will suffer the consequences, particularly if our leaders are reacting on this level.
Political powers create political rhetoric. It takes leaders to back up political rhetoric. Extremist groups do not succeed unless they are supported by leaders and the political structure. La Raza, while it may appear to be extreme, is a lobbying group, not a political party. Their threat is yet to be determined.
Remember, too, I said the test of a true extremist group is this: do they act out the extremism, or do they merely spout off? Extremist groups at some point, typically fall prey to violence.
Unfortunately, we cannot do much about our leaders spouting off. Indeed, it seems to be part of their job requirement. We also cannot do much about political groups spouting off. We can, however, do something about real extremists acting out on their negative beliefs. True extremists are not merely dialoging or exercising freedom of speech. They are out there harming society.
AWCheney, and you think that the feds don’t keep an eye on LaRaza? There may be people in that organization who would easily step over the line…just as there are people who post on the darkscreen who appear too close to stepping over the line as well. Too many speakers on all sides appear all too willing to use extreme rhetoric. What did Jeff Fredrick hope to accomplish with his Obama/Osama comparison? The Republican Party is a pretty mainstream, well-supported organization as well. I’m sure not all Republicans are on the feds “let’s watch” list but I’m equally sure some are – with good reason. Perhaps the fringe needs to be called out for its rhetoric – not quashed, but challenged.
AW…”What he said.” 🙂
That is, if Anesthesia is a he.
“I said the test of a true extremist group is this: do they act out the extremism, or do they merely spout off? Extremist groups at some point, typically fall prey to violence.”
Where has HSM fallen prey to violence,” then, since they are so often painted here as a racist, extremist hate group?
Emma, I do not know enough about HSM; therefore, I defer to someone else to answer your question.
However, you may want to read my post on threats and intimidation.
I will give you this as an example: if an abusive spouse holds a fist to the other spouse’s face but does not throw a punch, is that violence? How close do we get to physical violence before we call it violence?
Emma, I would say Greg showing up at a t 7-11 wearing army fatigues and threatening to come back with a gun is violence.
Emma, when you read BVBL, do you ever wonder about the mental stability of some of the posters? Seriously. I don’t mean whether you agree/disagree with their politics, but do some sound so angry to you that you think they might resort to violence? (I don’t mean necessarily kill someone, but that it wouldn’t surprise you to see one poke an opponent with their political sign. haha)
The tenor of that board seems to bring out a lot of “if the politicians don’t do something about it, it’s time to act…” What does “act” imply? It doesn’t come across as “I’ll grab my clipboard and get his constituents to sign my petition”. It seemed to make the Klan comfortable enough to think that they may drum up a bit of business. The dehumanizing – dogfood, vermin, anchor babies, invaders – rhetoric was designed to do what precisely?
–It doesn’t come across as “I’ll grab my clipboard and get his constituents to sign my petition”.–
LOL!!!!
Censored…nice way to put it 🙂
“Emma, when you read BVBL, do you ever wonder about the mental stability of some of the posters?”
No more than I’ve wondered about the mental stability of posters like Mackie.
The broad brush is unfair no matter which side you paint with it.
I am going to put myself out there once again and give an example for Emma and others to refresh their memories.
I have never gone near Greg. Yet, at a county meeting he made it a point of coming to sit behind me with his friends. The discussion was loud and directed at me. I did not turn around. I was alone. He was not.
That kind of physical intimidation is unacceptable. It goes beyond free speech and blogging.
I will spare you other examples of intimidation that other members of HSM have used against me and others. I think we have beaten that to a pulp on this board, and I do not wish to go there again.
Posting as Pinko, that sounds frightening.
It was.
Pinko, that is unacceptable behavior in a civilized society. What you have described is simply bullying. When children behave that way, it is deplorable, when adults behave that way, I don’t think I even know a word for it.
Again, we go back to degrees. When does someone step over the line? Where do we draw that line? When does exposing someone’s work place become an invitation to stalking. Several regulars here have had that happen.
I don’t know that WEstboro has ever done physical violence to anyone. What is worse? Physical abuse or mental abuse? When does their rhetoric push some ‘fag hating, gun-totin’, nut case’ totally over the edge? Do they ever worry that they will work up one of these psychos to the point that they drive up to a military funeral guns ablazing?
That is what concerns me about all of this. The crowd people want to work up into a frenzy might just set some lone wolf off on a path of no return…changing the lone wolf into the avenging angel(or devil) of death.
When children do it, they get suspended 🙂
I believe, like Anesthesia, that anyone moving from cyber world to real life, from speaking to action, from writing to organizing, has purposefully entered a different realm all together. In my mind, HSM as a group (not every member for sure) has taken those steps.
Moon Howler, it is as I have said: if an abusive spouse holds a fist to the other spouse’s face but does not throw a punch, is that violence? How close do we get to physical violence before we call it violence?
Mental and psychological abuse can be as violent as physical abuse.
How about those who work the other direction? How about those who move from the real world to the cyber world? Do you see a difference, Pinko?
I’m not sure what you mean by that, MH. Can you give me an example?
Let’s say you have a cause you want to propagage. You take it to the cyber world via blog or some other means.
Ah I see.
Okay, that’s a little different UNLESS your blog is encouraging outward, extreme and negative behavior.
For example, this one blog I saw says something like, “If you want to go out and kill a black person, then do it.” HELLO??? Is that not like some big warning sign that says, “Hey, I condone violence and will get off watching you do it”?
If you are encouraging someone to literally persecute others, then yes, that’s a problem, and I would put that in the category of actively trying to elicit a real-life, probably violent, response.
It’s not only vile, it’s cowardly. People who do this encourage bullying and ganging up. It’s easier to get your friends to do your dirty work while you just stand there and watch, isn’t it?
Anesthesia said:
This encapsulates why I am so disappointed that our community has not fully repudiated the tactics of Greg Letiecq and his followers. If you post someone’s address on the internet and invite others to visit violence upon them, is that not a form of violence?
Prince William County: our democracy has been infected by a form of violence. When will our Board of Supervisors stand up and say this is not acceptable? @Anesthesia