Has the swine flu pandemic given rise to even more anti-immigrant hatred? An article a friend sent me from MSNBC.COM suggests yes:
“No contact anywhere with an illegal alien!” conservative talk show host Michael Savage advised his U.S. listeners this week on how to avoid the swine flu. “And that starts in the restaurants” where he said, you “don’t know if they wipe their behinds with their hands!”
And Thursday, Boston talk radio host Jay Severin was suspended after calling Mexican immigrants “criminalians” during a discussion of swine flu and saying that emergency rooms had become “essentially condos for Mexicans.”
That’s tepid compared to some of the xenophobic reactions spreading like an emerging virus across the Internet. “This disgusting blight is because MEXICANS ARE PIGS!” an anonymous poster ranted on the “prison planet” forum, part of radio host and columnist Alex Jones’ Web site.
There is even talk of conspiracy. Savage speculated that terrorists are using Mexican immigrants as walking germ warfare weapons. “It would be easy,” he said, “to bring an altered virus into Mexico, put it in the general population, and have them march across the border.”
The following Keither Olbermann video gives further examples of scapegoating.
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Do people really respond to microbes this way? Was this the excuse people were looking for?
Most Latinos in our area are from countries other than Mexico. Only about 25% our our Hispanic population is from Mexico. Have they been treated differently since this outbreak? Perhaps those who are slinging this kind of trash should be reminded that the first cases of swine flu in the United States were brought back by American Catholic high school students who had been vacationing over Spring break in Cancun. Surely no one will suggest that we ban American Catholic high school students.
[ed note: I am aware that this video is not neutral view point. However, people’s words do speak for themselves, so I opted to use the material. ]
Well, again, like the poor, the fringe you will always have with you. And the fact that news and commentary on the internet is so vast gives the fringe a huge playground. And even the MSM is looking more and more tabloid these days. The point is whether we are going to give it any credence by paying attention to it and seeing it as some kind of sign of things to come. Pick your media and stick with it, and ignore the rest.
Glad to hear that agree this is extremism propoganda with no validity Emma!
I thought it was terrible that the Washington Post zeroed in on that little boy in Mexico as the center of the epidemic, even giving his name. What was the point of that? Given that the Post all but advocates open borders, it’s surprising to see them scapegoating the little guy like that. Just provoking controversy, I guess, rather than simply reporting facts. I’m all for strictly enforcing the borders, obviously, but unfortunately pathogens don’t respect sovereignty in a “globalized” economy.
Anyway, I am glad to see that the U.S. cases of flu are fairly mild so far.
I am glad also, Emma. I thought it was poor form to give the little guy’s name also. Several of the cable news shows showed him also. I don’t recall if it was fox or cnn.
In general, Severin has been suspended indefinitely. He is a well-known shock jock in that area. He definitely has the latino community upset over the hate speech. This isn’t the first time he has been in trouble. In the past:
More recent comments have spoken about ‘leeches with poor hygiene,’ and ‘primitives.’ He sounds fairly contemptible. I am all for free speech but this seems was over the top. Free speech does have consequences. I hope people of decency will let the station WTKK-FM and the sponsors know how they feel and demand that this hatemonger at least not be given a mic.
Info gathered from Boston.com
Click link for entire story.
Keith Overbite…..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@Emma
It wasn’t just the Washington ComPost, they plastered that boy’s picture all over every news channel. I still can’t figure out what purpose it served. Of course, nimrods will chalk that up to more “xenophobic hatred blah blah blah” but it’s just journalists doing what journalists do.
Luckily, we have Keith Overbite here….perhaps the undisputed queen of journalistic integrity. OMG.
Nah, I say let ’em talk. People will vote with their feet when they don’t tune in and advertising revenue falls off. Stations are not going to give up profits as long as people are still listening.
You can’t find your way to the middle if you don’t have the extremes in thought. Democracy and free speech are messy. Just ask de Tocqueville.
I do believe that Sanjay Gupta of CNN (our nearly Surgeon Gen) also traced the virus to this one boy. This is not racism. This is journalism.
But no one is complaining about journalists seeking out facts and reporting them. The problem is that pundits and political strategists saw the fear growing, which was natural fear, and decided to exploit it for political purposes. Or for ratings. Deliberate attempts to direct brainwashed right wing media consumers to hate and fear Mexico, Mexican Americans, Mexican immigrants and of course illegal aliens Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, and several elected officials including a Georgia Congressman (!!!!).
I would put these people in a different category than Egypt’s government, which stupidly ordered the slaughtering of all pigs. These hate-mongers are just going where the hate is. That’s what they do. And if there is hate to be had for people of color, it’s just too good to pass up. Especially, these days, if they are Hispanic. I’m sure they are so disappointed the flue is turning out to be not as virulent as once thought.
Emma, thank you for stepping up to the plate and denouncing this tactic.
I don’t think anyone was implying that identifying the boy was racist. I think they think it was incredibly stupid and insensitive and served no purpose. Poor kid.
Slow, I hope you noted my caveat on the thread. I felt that Mr. Overbite, as you call him, was very slanted and biased with the speech he used. I ran into the problem of having to use bias to show bias.
Google “the Spanish disease” and you will find that syphilis was
called the Spanish disease by the Dutch, the French disease in
Italy, the Italian disease in France, etc. — you get the idea.
Hope you don’t get the BVBL flu. Worst case – a victim becomes
highly agitated, very heated and imagines seeing monsters by the
Slurpy machine at any 7/11 . Avoid if at all possible.
LOL Oh Poor Richard, you have definitely made me howl this morning. Thanks! Yes, I also believe the Europeans put the word ‘pox’ after the nationality. For example, The Brits called it the ‘French Pox.’ “Pox’ was about as bad as it gets!
Is there anywhere to get an innoculation against the bvbl flu? I don’t want to hallucinate! 🙂
Hahahaha, good one Richard! We have to stop the spread to our government. Please send some anti-virus medication to Corey Stewart, John Stirrup, and Jackson Miller.
STOP IT!!!! LOLOLOLOL Alanna. @Alanna
And they both will get arrested. How funny.
Shellyb, you are making this sound like the Prince William Iditarod. Where is Balto, the lead dog? Faster boy! faster. Mush! Mush! Carry that vaccine. The dreaded red spot disease is consuming the town.
OMG Can you believe these people???? Let’s see the plant in Mexico where the source of Swine Flu was discovered and passed on to an innocent little boy is American owned…Smithfield, I believe. Everyone who brought the flu to the US was from the US. Hmmmmmm. So, I am asking myself what does this have to do with immigration or terrorism. I suppose some cable stations are just desperate for ratings.
Marie, I think that Poor Richard hit the nail on the head…something about ranting for ratings….
Alanna, that quote is not quite right.
Olbermann did not offer to conduct the torture technique himself. He offered to donate $1000 per minute that Hannity lasts.
If you see the clip where Hannity says he will do this for charity, the man he is interviewing on his show, Charles Grodin, refused to conduct the waterboarding when Hannity offers this to him.
No one offered this to Olbermann, and Olbermann never offered. But he has made a point of calling Hannity out on his cowardice. Because although it was “for the troops” that Hannity was willing to undergo waterboarding to prove that it is not torture, Hannity is now backing out like the chicken hawk he is.
So, it’s not fair to say that Olbermann would actually conduct such a heinous act. He was just hoping to donate some big money to the families of veterans.
Here is proof, this youtube clip is when the original controversy broke out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sm8Os3mXv8
Olbermann is not only doing this to humiliate Hannity, or to support the troops. He is also making a point that waterboarding is torture.
With all due respect, standing in the exit stairwell of a high rise with burning jet fuel on your skin rises to the level of torture. Water splashed on the face cannot even compare. The fact that Obama won’t declassify the documents that specify exactly what waterboarding accomplished is a very telling act of cowardice.
The torture issue obviously continues to be on the minds of posters to this blog. Olbermann is not exactly beloved in military circles. I know that there are exceptions, but here is a rather humorous example: http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/08/worst-person-in.html
I keep reading various comments on this blog about what the troops think, how to support the troops, how troops have been exploited, whatever. Before you start believing everything that you read on the HuffingtonPost or MoveOn.org, you might want to consider reading what people have to say who were actually downrange. Two good sites are http://www.blackfive.net and http://www.michaelyon-online.com. It is worth noting that the two sites have diametrically opposing views of the waterboarding issue.
You have your homework assignment.
Overbite humiliate Hannity…..that’s rich. Take a peek at their ratings. Overbite is making a desperate attempt to add a sixth or maybe even a seventh viewer to his show by begging Hannity for publicity.
Kelly, I don’t believe you have done your homework. I cannot recall anyone talking about exploited troops, how to support the troops, or what the troops think. In fact, it is probably a topic that just hasn’t come up in the grand scheme of things. I can’t recall any one here ever uoting Huffingtonpost.com or moveon.org. Your homework is to prove me wrong.
So Slowpoke, are you saying Fox “News” is the reason you always sound so ill-informed and angry? I should have known.
Fox “News” has no competition because all the other networks have journalistic standards. Fox “News” is the only place to go for fact free propaganda, so yeah, it’s cornered the market for right wing extremists. I guess that makes you very proud. Well, I’m glad you at least have something to be proud of.
You are in that 20 percent of the public that is so far outside the mainstream, Fox “News” is the only place you are fully protected from reality. That’s why Fox “News” will never stop shoveling propaganda down your throats. Those commercials you watch in between the brainwashing segments are making them rich.
But do you really think Hannity is stupid enough to believe the idiocy he speaks? Do you really think Glenn Beck is a that much of a clown? They know their audience. They know you believe their idiocy. And they know you worship clowns.
So Fox “News” and its various entertainers will continue to sell you this b.s. even though it destroys the political party they claim to support, and even though it sours the lives of its viewers with hatred and resentment.
You’re just fish on a hook to them.
Actually your homework assignment is very simple, M-H.
During the discussion of “right-wing extremists” as terrorists, you stated that the military has trouble adjusting to civilian life after combat — always have, always will. As a result, you agreed that the mental state of returning combat veterans makes it reasonable to consider them as a terror threat. You do not know what you are talking about.
ShellyB is constantly referring to the court-martialed Abu Ghraib soldiers (e.g. Janice Karpinski) as being exploited by the Bush administration because they were ordered to torture prisoners but somehow these orders were never revealed during trial. She has also quoted the Huffington Post on this web site (about a different topic), but the “scapegoating” of soldiers has been a very popular topic there. She also does not know what she is talking about.
Like CNN is much better. The system I work on for the military used to carry CNN for broadcast to the military overseas. That was until they once ran a piece that basically said all soldiers in Iraq were complicit in an illegitimate war. The General in charge of the system ordered that CNN broadcasts be stopped. The system used to carry both CNN and FOX, now it only carries FOX. At the base here in Texas, in the food court where most soldiers eat has widescreen TV’s, and guess what network they are showing – FOX News. Seems like the military would dispute some ascertions above about Fox News. For myself, I don’t watch Fox News ,but I definitely don’t watch CNN – the Confused News Network. I’ve seen more misinformation, silly errors, and stuff on topics I know about to not trust them for anything, especially technical computer subjects or involving space exploration. When the topic of manned exploration to Mars came up, some idiot on there said with a straight face, it would take putting people in suspended animation to get to Mars, or else they’d be too old by the time they arrived! That was when I knew CNN was out to lunch.
MH – working on my system in the field the past few days I have been watcing Fox News because that’s all we are allowed to carry besides the Pentagon Channel. Fox News did indeed show the boy’s picture. They did not give his name. They noted he and his family were visiting relatives on this side of the Texas border, and also noted his parents have not as yet shown any symptoms. The local newspapers here went further and named the boy, but where I am currently – I guess is about 300 miles from the Mexican border (not sure exactly). I am also not sure exactly where that town is along the Texas border, as I am not that familiar with Texas, this is the first time I’ve been to Texas in many years, and the first time I’ve ever been south of Dallas, and I’m about 180 miles south of there. Anyway, papers here are fairly panicky about swine flu, besides that one death there are a number of cases of the flu reported in the state. Of course Texas is a BIG state, for all I know the nearest swine flu case might be 300 or 400 miles from where I am!
By the way, I do agree, no need to mention the boy’s name, or really even to show his picture – it is just for ratings obviously. His picture and name was plastered on front page of local newspaper 2 or 3 days ago when the news came out. This is not a big town though, it’s entire purpose is to serve the Army base here.
Kelly, I never said everyone in the military had trouble adjusting to civilian life. Some people do. They always have and they always will. I don’t think it is unreasonable to suggest that a small percentage of military people just might have stability problems.
And yes, I do know what I am talking about. You can take a statement and get all huffy over it if you want. You are twisting words. Of course it isn’t reasonable to think that everyone who returns active duty is a terrorist and no one thinks that. It is reasonable to be mindful that some people might have emotional problems and might be a danger to themselves or others.
In fact, not enough is done to support the returning troops, physically or emotionally. Veterans shouldn’t have to fight to get the services they need.
As for Janice Karpinski, she was screwed. Up one side and down the other. I also don’t recall her being court martialed.
I am not sure what you mean by scapegoating of soldiers. The regulars on anti-bvbl are very supportive of our US soldiers. Do you believe that IT firms like CACI, Halliburton and Blackwater should be making the big bucks and in charge of interrogations, for example? Do you think the CIA ought to be giving commands to our military personnel?
Too bad that the mercenaries are making all the money while our troops are struggling to make ends meet.
Kelly, feel free to debate issues but do not misquote or mischaracterize people’s intentions here. You have made up an entire fantasy about my beliefs.
I will only say this about waterboarding – I know from via people I work with as part of my job, that lives were saved as a result of information obtained by waterboarding. That indeed means, terrorist attacks were prevented. Also, do you think the terrorists if they capture US soldiers or citizens, are going to be so accomodating that they won’t torture them. I bet their idea of interrogation goes far beyond waterboarding!
Confusing typo above – should read “I know from people I work with as part of my job” – extra word crept in there. These are people who represent the customer for the system I work on, which is involved in relaying reconnaisance video in Afghanistan and Iraq – anyway they know people who can vouch for the fact that valid information was obtained via waterboarding, and it saved lives. And I wish Obama would release ALL info on waterboarding. Similarly, most people I interface with on the military side, still don’t understand where all the people housed at Guantanamo Bay are going to end up, and would like to know what is Obama’s plan for that. It’s not like a lot of other countries are willing to take them in. There are some that you don’t want to just send back to Iraq and turn them loose there either.
I don’t know what they are going to do with them either (Gitmo prisoners). Closing Gitmo isn’t high on my list of national priorities.
As for the waterboarding…I don’t care about the people. It is hard to muster up great concern over people who have shown absolute contempt of human life. I care about us as a nation.
Anything that simulates drowning is torture in my book. Is it the same as driving spikes under fingernails or disembowling people alive? I would say no. I think torture has degrees like everything else.
War is ugly and nasty. I guess before a nation goes to war, it had better be ready to accept all that war involves. Interrogations are part of war.
Fire bombing is torture also. Do we turn back the hands of time and hand back WWII? US troops firebombed Dresden, Tokyo, as well as other places. Ugly events that helped end a world war. The basic problem here is that we are attempting to find simple solutions for deeply complex questions.
@ShellyB
“Journalistic Standards”…OK, that explains Janeane Garafalo’s rant on Olberman. Journalistic standards…..you crack me up, Shelly. You’re really not at all particular about what you allow into your ear-holes, are you? Reading your posts, it’s clear you’ve lost almost all grip on reality. It almost seems that maybe a nerve got pinched there. Is Overbite one of your favorites? I took you for a “meaty fingers” Maddow nutcase more than Overbite. Oh well, keep talking! You inflict more damage on yourself than I ever could!
MH: Pleas explain to me how your statement was mis-characterized. Your “Hollywood-like” claim is that the stresses of combat can cause soldiers to crack-up and become a terrorist threat. The problem with your argument is that there is no evidence that it has ever happened. I suppose you were referring to McVeigh, but he was a decorated soldier who did not have trouble re-adjusting — he became radicalized in the years after his military service.
But let’s suppose you are not wrong. Declaring soldiers to be a threat for the actions of one or two is like putting all men on a watch list because a small minority have been convicted of rape.
As for Janis Karpinki, she was reduced in rank from Brig Gen to Colonel for deriliction of duty. If you recall, all AG incidents took place during the night shift. She did not know what was going on and never even visited at night. If she were following orders, she should have been present to supervise these “important” activities. She was not screwed over and indeed was a very bad commander.
QED
Slowpoke, face it. You’re beaten. Of the 20 percent of the public that is still Republican, less than half of that resorts to hateful extremism and ignorance to protect them from the reality that it is no longer 1985.
Your numbers like your minds are shrinking. And neither you nor the clowns you worship have the intellectual firepower to convince anyone new. So you hunt down any Republican who isn’t as fanatical and extremist as you’d like, and you force them to leave. Good plan! Keep at it, true believer!
When you behave like that, even the good hearted people can’t feel sympathy for you. Remember, Fox “News” is making money. You’re deceiving yourself for free.
Kelly, I usually ignore your posts because you’ve never quite managed to make any actual points. But now you are using such an annoying and childish tactic, I have to point it out.
You’re an adult. It’s time to outgrow “I know you are but what am I?”
Why do you think you have the ability to make up her side of the argument? And why do you think anyone reading this, other than Slowpoke the clown worshiper, would take your word for it when you characterize M-H’s world view?
You’re trying to have an argument with M-H based on something M-H did not say. Stick to your own world view. And when you figure out what that is, let us know without making any childish and baseless attacks.
The racial scapegoating and exploitation of the swine flu has been ugly and unnecessary.
Meanwhile, the gloating of people on the left is getting the far right even more upset, and thus getting them focused on the wrong constituency. Better to allow people like ShellyB to do their touchdown dance and look for some agreement between the center and moderate, or establishment Republicans.
The important question to ask is whether there can be a dialog between moderate Republicans and far right Republicans. If not, the moderates will instead turn to Independents and the big tent Democrats under President Obama.
You can see from this thread that there is no common ground between the far right and Democrats. That is to be expected. But if there is also no common ground between the far right and independents like M-H, this is bad news for Republicans. It will create a smaller, more ideologically pure Republican party that will not appeal to young Americans, minorities, the Northeast, the West Coast, the Midwest, or the Great Lakes region. That’s a lot of America to give up.
Somehow, the messaging experts in the GOP have got to stop the far right from taking over the party. If the far right drowns out the moderate Republicans, or worse, pushes them out, we will lose the checks and balances of the two party system. We could have one party rule for decades.
The two big electoral defeats have stirred the far right into a frenzy, and it has caused many moderate Republicans to quietly reassess and regroup. This has created a vacuum of leadership, which is being seized upon by the agitated far right, eager to do battle, but not sure what they are supposed to be battling for.
I am not interested in a scuffle, but I hope there are some moderate Republicans available to balance the shrill and often maniacal voice of the far right on this blog.
ShellyB: The reason that I responded to MH (and you) is because so many things that you and she say are factually incorrect. She stated clearly that it is reasonable to consider combat veterans with emotional problems as threats. You have stated that Janis Karpinsky was made a scapegoat for the AG scandal. I am highlighting certain facts to show the implications of your statements and why they are wrong. Your inability to follow these arguments to their logical conclusion does not mean that they are baseless.
I do not blame you for being annoyed, however. If I were wrong as often as you, I would be annoyed too. When you resort to name calling and insults, I know that I have won the debate. Please come back and try again when you have arguments based on actual facts, rather than just on world view.
Kelly, actually you have proven nothing so probably not a good idea to be so smug. There is no debate. So you won nothing. Have a good day.
Kelly, both torture and racial scapegoating are indefensible. Why are you here on a thread about one, defending the other? Rather than owning these tactics, and then attacking those who rightly object to them, why not focus on matters on which we might find common ground?
For the love of God, I don’t understand the reasoning of whoever issued the memo that loyal Republicans must defend torture!
This is a perfect example of what is destroying the Republican party. It is very difficult to defend things like torture. Leave that to Dick Cheney. Kelly, no one reading this blog can follow your scattered-brained logic. The best thing you could do is stop talking and do some listening.
Last Best Hope: If your previous post is any indication as to how dialogue between the conservative and moderate wings of the Republican party is going to be pursued, then the common ground that you desire may be hard to find. Postings like that encourage me to ignore you, rather than listen to you. Is that logic simple enough for you?
Ignore works both ways. Let’s just call it a bi-conditional.
20% ? Only 20%? Wow. Is that what the orderlies told you?
WARNING for Slowpoke, a dose of reality is about to follow. If you don’t think you can handle it, STOP READING NOW and run back Fox “News.”
A few days ago a Washington Post poll found that only 21 percent admit to being Republicans. Now the Wall Street Journal poll puts that number at 20 percent, with only 13 percent saying they are strong Republicans.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/shakespeares_sister/nbcwsjpollbig.jpg
Still there Slowpoke? If so, I hope you are not upset at me. I just want you to stop trying to dismiss anything that doesn’t jive with your limited outlook. It’s so easy to make you look foolish when you do that. Most people who read this blog are exposed to a variety of news sources and a variety of opinions by way of the internet.
I am not trying to hurt your feelings by exposing you to such things. But you shouldn’t try to argue with people who live in the real world unless you are willing to explore it yourself and at least know what’s going on out there.
I’m not even saying this 20 percent thing is huge news or even surprising. But my point is that I DID NOT MAKE IT UP. And it’s foolish to pretend I did. Many people in the real world are discussing it. You can’t just plug your ears and say “nah nah nah nah” when you don’t like reality.
Your party needs new ideas. Not screaming the old ideas louder.
Kelly, you don’t need to dialogue with me. I frankly don’t have time for it. But how do you feel about National Council for a New America going on a listening tour? I thought this was the best idea coming from the GOP all year, and yet, incredibly, extremists in the party are deriding the idea, and saying that John McCain, Jeb Bush, Eric Cantor and Mitt Romney are “RINOs” and unacceptably moderate! If Eric Cantor is too moderate, where is a half-way informed conservative supposed to go? Most likely: the way of Arlen Specter.
Last Best Hope, why do Republicans feel the need to call names. RINO is just ugly. That is tantamount to deciding who is a Christian and who isn’t.
There are two kinds of churches: those that reach out to gain converts, and those that persecute heretics. Churches that reach out to converts grow. Churches that persecute heretics shrink. The Republican Party is shrinking right now. Soon it will shrink from beneath my feet. [ed: last sentence removed at the request of the poster. M-H]
I take back that last sentence. If possible, please remove. Thank you.
Last Best Hope- if you really want it removed, leave me a note here. I will do it for you tomorrow.