Actually, cyber bullying was already here.  Whatever happened to the good old days where the bullies just made everyone’s life miserable on the playground? 

Area schools and parent-teacher organizations are meeting to discuss the growing trend of cyber bullying where children and teens use computers, hand-held devices, cell phones and blackberries to harass torture and embarrass their peers. 

Apparently the problem is so epidemic that PW County Schools plan to include cyber bullying in the Code of Behavior.  Regular bullying is already a point of emphasis.  In the past few years, schools have become increasingly sensitive to the harmful affects of bullying.  Deputy Superintendent Rae Darlington has been a champion of the anti-bullying programs that already exist in the county.   

According to the News and Messenger:

 

The suggested changes to the Code of Behavior, which the School Board reviews and updates annually, would expand the definition of bullying to say that “cyber bullying, the intentional and/or repeated harm of others through the use of computers, cell phones, and other electronic or technological devices, is strictly forbidden.”

Clarice Torian, Director of Student Services for Prince William County Schools recently told the school board:

“The suggested additions to the code of behavior would apply to student behavior in school, and outside of school if the behavior impacts the school environment.”

 

News and Messenger also reports:

According to a study by criminology professors Sameer Hinduja and Justin Patchin, who started the Web site http://www.cyberbullying.us, 9.4 percent of middle schoolers reported being recent victims of cyberbullying and 17.3 percent reported being victims at some point in their lives.

The study also said that 8.2 percent of middle schoolers reported being recent cyber bullies themselves and 17.6 percent reported being cyber bullies at some point in their lives.

According to the study, some examples of cyber bullying are sending harassing e-mails or instant messages, posting insulting or slanderous things on online bulletin boards or social networking sites.

 

Does this behavior stop at adolescence?  Is this something kids outgrow or is it something we continue to see way into adulthood?  Certainly those of us who have traveled about the blogosphere are quite familiar with bullying.  Additionally, those of us who have dealt with political issues are certainly familiar with some of the bully tactics that are used in against the ‘enemy.’

What is adult cyber bullying?  Would those who bully do so on the playground or is the anonymity of a computer what brings out this disturbing behavior?  How does it manifest itself in the blogosphere?  The chat rooms?  Emails?

Over the weekend, let’s take a look at examples of cyber bullying as it relates to blogging and politics.  I am sure many of us have a story to tell. 

 

 

 

 

 

168 Thoughts to “Cyber Bullying Comes to Prince William County”

  1. Here’s some examples of real bullying:
    http://stateswithoutnations.blogspot.com/2009/05/customs-and-border-patrol-destroys.html

    Customs and Border Protection Destroys Birth Certificates of Mexican-American U.S.-born Teenage Boys

    Here are descriptions of two previously unpublished accounts of U.S.-born Mexican-American teenagers who had their birth certificates ripped up by Customs and Border Patrol agents. I have information on other similar cases, but only time to write up the details of these two, along with summaries and links to two other recent cases published elsewhere.

    In early 2007, when Mario tried to return through Nogales, Arizona the Customs and Border Patrol agent, the attorney said, “tore it up on the spot. They told him, ‘It’s not real. Go away, kid, this is fraud.’ There goes your Colorado birth certificate. Go away, have a nice day.” Mario was upset and insisted he was a U.S. citizen. “They told him that if he says he’s Mexican he can leave, but if he keeps saying he’s a citizen he’ll be detained at the Nogales border patrol station and arrested.” He signed and returned to Mexico.

    Because of worries about identity theft he was not able to send for another copy of his birth certificate. In May 2007, Mario decided to take his chances by crossing without inspection and was apprehended by the Nogales Border Patrol. He made a sworn statement that he’s a U.S. citizen and is taken into detention for deportation proceedings, where he can make his case before a judge. Mario, the attorney said, “denied he was a Mexican alien, but they whipped this thing out,” according to the attorney, and said, “You said you were a Mexican. Here’s the proof. You were removed as a Mexican.”

    Case 2.
    An attorney who works for a federal defender’s office told me about Ricardo, 16, who was living in Phoenix and drove to Nogales so he could drink. (These events transpired roughly between 2002-2006.) On returning to the United States, Ricardo presented his Los Angeles County birth certificate and Arizona driver’s license. The attorney said “The border patrol agent kept trying to get him to admit he was Mexican and it was a fake certificate: ‘You’re a punk, you’re stupid, and I’m going to do you a favor,’ and the border patrol rips up Ricardo’s birth certificate.” The agent tells Ricardo that he saved him from a charge of presenting false documents and says that if Ricardo doesn’t sign a statement saying he’s Mexican, then he’s going to prison for a year. Ricardo signed.”

    I asked the attorney why Ricardo signed the false statement, although the absence of an attorney and being a minor are already grounds for concern. He replied, “Nobody believes you, and they browbeat you, ‘Stop lying, you’re just making it worse.'” Ricardo went to court but didn’t say anything. I asked why he didn’t explain his situation to the immigration judge and the attorney, who had watched a video tape of the hearing told me, “A lot of these judges don’t listen to shit anybody says. This judge never even looked up from the paper.” (Incidentally, Ricardo didn’t miscalculate: Mark Lyttle told the judge he was U.S. citizen and was still deported.)

    “If ever there was evidence of the fundamental flaws in our immigration system, it is the fact that a U.S. citizen was deported twice and denied entry into the United States on numerous occasions without any due process of law,” said Jennie Pasquarella, staff attorney for the ACLU/SC. “ICE officials repeatedly ignored his certified birth certificate, which they could easily have corroborated, and instead simply refused to believe him. It is inconceivable that this would have happened were he not Latino.”

    “There’s something fundamentally wrong with the system if border guards can effectively deprive you of your citizenship by simply disregarding a valid birth certificate,” said Pasquarella. “ICE officials obviously used race and ethnicity as a basis for enforcing our nation’s immigration laws, rather than taking a few minutes to verify Mr. Olivares’ legal status.”

    In a detailed article by Sandra Hernanez appearing in the Los Angeles Daily Journal on December 31, 2008 Jose Ledesma, who estimates he was deported about 15 times despite presenting a U.S. birth certificate, says,

    “I think the only reason I got out is immigration saw the newspaper stuff and didn’t want to keep me in there after it was public,” he said.
    “I think I might have gotten out a lot faster if I’d had a lawyer,” Ledesma said. “I know my rights, but in court you don’t really understand all the legal stuff or they just don’t believe you.”

    This does seem to be a pattern: when the media focus attention on cases ICE responds but absent that attention even attorneys have a problem receiving due process protections for their clients.

    Another interesting point Ledesma mentions is that during his hearing before an immigration judge, when Ledesma brings up his claim to U.S. citizenship, the judge “turned off the tape recorder and began talking to the government attorney and then turned it back on and told me I had 15 days to provide facts to show I was a citizen.”

    So the immigration courts won’t let people in (see earlier postings tagged EOIR) and immigration judges are having secret exchanges with the government attorneys?!

    Wow.

  2. Second-Alamo

    A copy-proof national ID card would have prevented this mess, but then the liberals are against it as if the government doesn’t already know everything about you if you are a legal citizen. It’s those who aren’t legal that we know little or nothing about.

  3. GainesvilleResident

    Interesting thread MH. Yes, cyber bullying big problem. You & I have had direct conversations about it via e-mail. Won’t rehash it here, some people thought I was engaged in cyber bullying but you know me well enough now to know I wasn’t, and really was reverse situation sort of.

    Cyber bullies are bad, no matter who they are, what side of issue they are on, etc. I’m sure these days in schools, cyber bullies abound there too. I remember bullying in schools – and can’t imagine now what it would be like receiving e-mails/instant messages, etc. from bullies at school, 24 hours a day. Leads to tradegies – think some school violence initiated via cyber bullying and spills out into physical stuff. All around bad stuff. People are also more brave hiding between anonymous user id’s.

    Good thread, glad you put it up.

  4. DiversityGal

    Cyber-bullying has crept down into elementary schools. As computers become more of a necessity in education, new problems arise. I know of a 3rd grader who sent another student countless unwanted emails with rude messages. The emails were a side-function of a school-based, highly successful reading computer program.

    The biggest problem I have seen, at least in elementary school, is students sharing their passwords. Even with countless internet safety lessons via the computer lab teacher and school counselor, there is still a problem with (mostly girls) sharing passwords as a sign of friendship. There are lots of cases of girls then using their buddy’s password to send nasty emails to others (kids and teachers). It is a newer version of making a three way call to your friend to gossip, and not letting her know there is someone on the other line.

    Imagine the issues it causes as kids become mired in this kind of drama…at the elementary school level! The scary part is that most of the actual bullying takes place at home, when students are accessing the afore-mentioned programs to practice skills, or just socially emailing/IMing/chatting with friends. It always makes it way into the schools, however, and is highly disruptive.

    I definitely think it will translate to adult cyber-bullying. Just like many other maladaptive behavior patterns, it does not simply end, especially when one has not been corrected. This one has a great potential to carry on into adulthood, as most cyber-bullying is harder to catch. Children and adults alike feel safer to say and do things on a computer that they wouldn’t do in “the real world” or face-to-face.

  5. Chris

    Hi Diversity Gal. The three way call you mentined is over the top. Bullying can have long lasting effects on one’s self-esteem. Let’s face we all know kids can be cruel, but it doesn’t stop there.

    I’ve often been curious about some of the “local blog bullies”, if they were bullies on the playground/in the neighborhood when they were kids. My guess is they were. I know one person that would act like they were your best friend to your face, and attack everyone on the newspaper blog. I think these cyber bullies live in their little cyer world, and are absolutely cluless to the reality of the “real world”.

    Amdmin,
    Can we post bullying email and blog posts as examples? For all to see with their own two eyes?

  6. Moon-howler

    I see no problem with that if you xxxxx out the names, Chris. Perhaps we should decide on a case by case basis. On the other hand, if it is a moniker, what difference does it make? I can think of at least one person who fits the description you just described.

    Welcome back Diversity Gal. Good to see you and I appreciate your input here. I agree, it does continue into adulthood.

    Gainesville, no you are not a cyber bully. I actually believe you were being bullied by that person we discussed and who is no longer welcome here.

    SA, interesting you should say that about a national identity card. I always felt it was conservatives who opposed the national id care. I certainly would not mind one. Sort of like carrying around your birth certificate like a credit card. You are right. The govt. knows all anyway.

  7. Anesthesia

    I think fingerprints would be better than a national ID card. It’s harder to cut off a finger than it is to steal a card.

    Then again, perhaps the finger print will be on the card anyway.

  8. Opinion

    @Mackie

    You know, an optional national ID Card exists (for those who want it… that should satisfy the folks who are against the idea in principle.) It’s called a U.S. Passport Card.

    http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html

    This new travel document can be used to enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda at land border crossings or sea ports-of-entry. So, why not publicize its availability?

  9. Moon-howler

    Opinion, the passport processor I talked to actually discouraged me from getting one. I am not sure why. This was about a year ago. Maybe they were swamped at the time. Who knows.

    Addendum: It must have been last summer since they didn’t have them until them. I see that you can’t use them for air travel. That might be the reason I was given. I just don’t remember.

    At any rate, thanks for that information, Opinion. Those cards must be more for people who live in say Arizona, or Michigan or other border states. If you had to drive back and forth a lot, it would definitely be easier than carrying a full size passport.

  10. Thumper

    @Chris
    I, for one, would like to know what you all are referring to. So please….post away.

    It will be interesting to see what cyber bullying looks like.

  11. Chris

    @Moon-howler
    Once a upon time Virginia did have birth certificates in a credit card form. I have one and carry with it my driver’s license. I think they should bring it back, but with some enhancements to keep it from being easily duplicated.

    Oh, I would not reveal their identy. I’ve had one or two monikers of mine ratted out on this board, by those that aren’t regulars. Now, I would not turn around do this to them. I’m above that type of behavior.

  12. Moon-howler

    Chris, you don’t have to rat them out. Just examples would acceptable, in their cyber moniker form.

    On the other hand, he (or she) who lives by the sword tends to die by the sword.

  13. Witness Too

    People have no shame when posting anonymously on the internet. We have to accept that as part of the modern world. Often, people have had no shame where they have no accountability.

    I think the disease that afflicted our county a few years back was extraordinary because the “theme” of the bullying was ferocious and very much focused on race and ethnicity. There were targets for hatred, very clear targets, and the rest of us felt vulnerable if we were accused of being somehow sympathetic or connected to those targets.

    What happened in PWC had the feeling of a McCarthy witch hunt with guilt by association. People were afraid to speak their mind. Those who did received threatening emails and/or where slandered on a blog.

    To make matters worse, the bullying here coincided with some national movements and particular radio and newscasters hysteric. Then, you add to that partisan political motivations, and all the venom that is already prevalent there.

    Now days, I feel it has died down a great deal. The radio shock jocks and newscasters, as well as the partisan political wind has gone out of the sails. So instead of feeling like PWC is ground zero of a hate and bullying epidemic, it just seems like we have some not-so-friendly neighbors. Greg Letiecq has a small group of people who read his blog, and an even smaller group of people who take his orders. That much, we can handle. It’s not great advertising for our county, but we can live with it.

    What we had before was truly frightening. It seemed like the beginning of a dark chapter in American history. Thank God they were not able to sustain it.

  14. GainesvilleResident

    Agreed that cyber bullying in kids will translate to even worse cyber bullying as adults. Also for some kids, cyber bullying will lead to in person physical or psychological bullying. I had lots of experience in mh childhood years being bullied, so know loads about it. That was before the time of technology for cyber bullying. I was always happy to get home from school. Cannot imagine now not being able to escape it – basically 24×7 bullying! YUCH! Big problem these days – this is an example of technology making things worse instead of better!

    WT – yes anonymous posting on internet encourages one to say things to other people they would never say in person. Easy to hide behind mask of anonymity. Have to give credit to admins of blog for sticking their necks out there in public. Not an easy thing to do, not anything I would want to do.

  15. GainesvilleResident

    WT – agreed about bullying here in PWC in relation to resolution. But it went both ways, and there was plenty of it on both sides. Very bad for people on both sides.

  16. It is sad that we too often limit ourselves to the term “bullying” when bullying only represent part of a continuum of aggression. It is only when we consider the entire continuum that we can identify an individual’s (any individuals regardless of age, gender, culture, education or hierarchy) emerging aggression, which research has shown as the only effective means to identify a shooter, suicide or otherwise. If you would like to know more, let me encourage you to read a new free white paper, which outline the problems in our schools and a possible real solution. We can and must prevent these events, not merely react to them. For a comprehensive look at the problem and its solution, http://www.aggressionmanagement.com/White_Paper_K-12/

  17. Witness Too

    I can see your point, GS. I sometimes feel sorry for Mr. Letiecq, Mr. Stewart, and Mr. Duecaster who are so often called to account for their words and deeds. An elected official knows what they are getting into. Letiecq and Duecaster have been raked across the coals as if they were politicians, but they are private citizens. Underneath all the tough talk, threats, bluster, ect. I’m sure they have feeling just like anyone else. I try to criticize the policy and not the people. I apologize if I haven’t always lived up to it.

  18. Witness Too

    GR, the fact that you and I are still afraid to “stick our neck out” with our real names is a lingering symptom of the bullying disease.

  19. WT, GL and Duecaster were authors of a policy. They were centers of a strong political and lobbying group that made their way into county government and are still strongly supported no matter what they say, no matter how many “brown people” they and their friends brag about chasing off.

    In 2007, compared to the population of PWC (around 400,000 people), about 100 people literally took over our county government. In the face of more than 1000 people protesting outside McCoart, a few hostile people were able to convince our BOCS to do the wrong thing. Instead of addressing neighborhood issues, the BOCS voted to attack people through an unfair policy. Yes, they were attacking people because that original policy encouraged racial profiling, threats and hatred. If you ask me, this is pretty frightening.

    I am someone who would like to see the HSM/BVBL crowd’s contentious comments posted because I want the world to know who it is that can take over government if we allow it.

    I think it’s important for the world to know exactly what it was that incensed some of us, caused some brave women to start Anti and threw some of us into a tailspin (that last category would include me with my less than subtle, virtual outbursts that were not intended to address anything other than the racism I perceive this group was and still is promoting).

    I also think it’s important for the world to know who was controlling our BOCS in 2007 and who is still bragging about it–including those on the BOCS.

    WT, I can see why you and others never stuck your necks out. You’re probably smarter than I am. But I have a fair amount of internet presence that goes outside of the immigration debate and has for years. Because of that, I’ve never believed I should hide.

    That said, I have always tried to explain my reasoning behind what I have said, to no avail. I once again will apologize to any well meaning people who got caught up in my net of anger.

    Why was I so angry? Because I saw people getting discriminated against, bullied and threatened. Because I am not someone who can stand by while innocent people get beat up. I jump in (with or without thought). Unfortunately, sometimes when you jump into that kind of fight, you smack a few bystanders while you get beat up yourself.

    For that, I’m sorry.

    I’m really not into smacking bystanders.

    And I’m really not into pain.

    And I’m a little too impulsive sometimes for my own good.

  20. GainesvilleResident

    Witness Too – exactly right – no way would i use my real identity on here or anyplace else in this debate. Give credit to those few who do. I had enough problems even using a pseudonym on here.

  21. GainesvilleResident

    And, I’ll say it one more time, no excuse for some of the ugly name calling, twisting people’s names around to make fun of them (even if done by the other side), etc. No one needs to stoop to the level of their opponents! Bad stuff was said on both sides, no doubt about it. And no excuse for innocent people being caught in crossfire. Sorry, don’t buy it, and no amount of talk will convince me of that. First time I posted on here was attacked with very mild post.

  22. GainesvilleResident

    Meant to “was attacked with very mild post I made.” Point was, one poster and then others followed said poster and jumped to conclusions, right away the knives came out, saying must be HSM member, etc. Silly stuff, uncalled for. I only use myself as an example of poor behavior on both sides of issue. I probably made a few heated posts myself but only in response to attacks. I really said enough on this issue, but again I fail to see how it is OK for innocent people to be caught in crossfire.

  23. Well, GR, I can’t make you accept an apology or make you understand that putting forth reasons isn’t the same as making excuses.

    My understanding was that you had tremendous neighborhood problems that should have been addressed a long time ago. When you got cranky, some of us just assumed you were one of the “dark screened ones.”

    When you’re reading a blog, all you see is what’s being written. You don’t see the facial expressions or hear the tone. You don’t know the underlying issues outside the blog. You can only see those in real life. Duecaster and company went beyond blogging…way beyond.

    I’m sure they have a myriad of reasons for acting like they do, reasons we don’t know. But those reasons do not justify their actions in the real world.

    Hurting someone’s feelings isn’t the same thing as threatening or trying to psychologically damage someone. And that’s what BVBL attempts to do. I would say they go beyond bullying.

    You said, “Also for some kids, cyber bullying will lead to in person physical or psychological bullying.” This has happened again and again with the BVBL/HSM crowd.

    GR, you can resent and hate me all you want, but I wasn’t the one up there in an HSM meeting screaming my head off about invasions and foreigners and lawlessness and trying to push through an expensive policy that has ruined our county’s reputation.

    So all I can say is, sorry to have hurt your feelings. It wasn’t intentional.

  24. GainesvilleResident

    No, there was no good reason to assume I was one of the “dark side ones”. My first post was not ‘cranky’ – I became ‘cranky’ when you and others brought out the knives and pitchforks. The truth is there in the archives. You were the first rseponse to me – “go back to your scumhole”! Nice! I never used any bad language or anything in my very first post on here, but that’s the response I got. I don’t buy it, don’t buy it at all. Let’s just agree to disagree. I could say more but I’ll hold my tongue – but this idea of “bvbl did it, so OK if we did it” doesn’t cut it with me. I would say the bullying on here at times was just as bad as bvbl. you also said I was a nazi. So there. Equivalent of calling other ethnicities foul words. You did not know I was Jewish at the time, but then others proceeded to lecture me that I did not understand the holocaust! Hilarious!

    Don’t use my words to say what happened on bvbl! How dare you! Saying kids posting leads to violence – that comment of mine had ABOSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ANTIBVBL OR BVBL. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH! Baloney!

    Wow, I make a single self contained post completely unrelated to immigration, antibvbl, or bvbl and you link it anyway. That takes the cake.

    The fact that you were completely wrong about me and at the time had your own conclusions that I was a nazi, a bvbl member, etc. – shows that just maybe you might be wrong about a few other things too.

  25. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Having been whacked with a 2X4 in shop class by a bully in school, I can’t say I totally “get” cyber-bullying. I would have given darn near anything to get “virtually bullied”.

  26. Here are some prime examples of violent intonations, bullying and his supposed love of our area from our friend Mr. Duecaster (AKA Advocator). The “fat broads” are Alanna, Elena and me.

    1. Advocator said on 15 May 2008 at 11:50 am:
    Something more than voting may be needed at this point.

    1. Advocator said on 16 May 2008 at 10:18 am:
    Buy guns and ammo during the hiatus Mando. They scare the $hit out of liberal politicians, fat broads, and illegal invaders.

    1. Advocator said on 14 Apr 2008 at 9:15 pm:
    Well, Trufe, if indeed we’re headed for a cliff, I’d suggest the Illegal Invaders follow a simple economic principle: Last in, First out.

    An’ thass right, Trufe, I am bitching about ESOL classes. Those anchor babies be costing me money.

    2. Advocator said on 14 Apr 2008 at 9:18 pm:
    By the way, Trufe. I’d be willing to sacrifice NYC, San Fran, LA, a large part of DC.,Arlington, and Manassas Park.

    • Advocator said on 1 Jul 2008 at 10:09 am: Battlecat: You say, “they [Da Fat Broads] claim that illegals are simply no longer reporting that they are the victims of crime, and that explains the drop.”
    Even following that scenario, the legal residents of the County come out as winners, as our tax dollars are no longer being used to subsidize the good order and discipline of a foreign invading force.

    1. Advocator said on 1 May 2008 at 7:16 am:
    I saw two pickup trucks with mattresses in my neighborhood last night. They were UNloading them.
    Perception is everything. Regardless of what got passed or unpassed Tuesday night, the perception among the Illegal Community is that PWC is back to business as usual.
    It’s not time yet to storm the castle, but sharpen up your pitchforks and clean off the shovels.

    1. Advocator said on 31 Jan 2008 at 1:48 pm:
    My scientific background tells me that before we accept any conclusion regarding this observation we should investigate whether or not illegal aliens have a preferred breeding season that would account for the variation.
    1. Advocator said on 21 May 2008 at 8:38 am:
    The time for talking, writing, and pleading with our elected leaders to do the right thing on this issue is rapidly coming to an end.

    # Advocator said on 1 May 2008 at 10:25 am:
    Litterally “doing battle” is what we should all be prepared for, Mando.

    Posted by ( Advocator ) on June 02, 2008 at 4:40 pm
    We need to encourage more of the illegal invaders to leave our community so that we have the money to fund worthy programs like this. ESOL classes and emergency room anchor babies are sucking the lifeblood out of our County.

    We should gather the illegal aliens out of the jails in the country and have them build the fence prior to deporting them.
    Advocator Posted April 2, 2008 3:54 PM
    Advocator recommending slave labor to build the fence.
    4. The best we could do for the citizens of Mexico and for our own country would be to distribute hundreds of thousands of M-16 and AK-47 assault rifles to the campesinos so they could get rid of their corrupt leaders themselves. We should issue an assault rifle to every illegal alien we deport back to those cesspools of corruption.
    Posted by: Advocator on November 21, 2007 11:04 AM
    Back to Home Page
    November 20, 2007

  27. From Marie

    http://www.antibvbl.net/index.php/2008/08/03/blog-rules/#comments

    August 4th, 2008 at 08:14 | #45
    Reply | Quote

    kgotthardt

    Steve Thomas as is the one at HSM who did the checking up on who I am after I sent an e-mail to the president of HSM about an observation I made at the Prince William Co fair last year which had the appearance of being racist and sexist. I guess he thought pointing out that I was a City employee would somehow intimidate me and that I would be worried City Council would be displeased with my stand on the immigration issue.

    This is what he wrote in one of the paragraphs of his e-mail. “As is my duty and function within HSM, I have done some checking as to who you are, and what you do for a living. As someone who works in Social Services I can appreciate the liberal point-of-view that you have, when approaching the illegal alien issue. As someone who is a City employee, and not an elected official, I commend your bravery in taking a stand on this issue, albeit, in my opinion, on the wrong side.

    I thought he was pretty cheeky to do checking into my background. Wonder how many others have had their backgrounds checked?

  28. August 4th, 2008 at 12:57 | #67
    Reply | Quote

    MH-
    Veiled threats, indeed! I too was threatented with a law suit. This threat was made because someone ASSUMED a poster was me. They said that poster gave their PERSONAL information. This idividual was upset because there was a comment posted saying she had a daughter. I have to laugh because this “woman” has drug her kid to several public meetings, and has even been photographed by the press with her daughter at BOS meetings. This is bullying behavior plain and simply. I still laugh about the insanity of the veil threat. This threat came from a “mere member” of HSM. Get a life people!

  29. August 4th, 2008 at 14:00 | #72
    Reply | Quote

    To Moon-howler, 4. August 2008, 8:30

    I never mentioned in my correspondence to the HSM president where I worked or what I did for a living. I did sign my name to my e-mail because It is not my style to send letters or e-mails anonymously. I thought it interesting that Greg L never responded. Dan Arnold responded and then Steve Thomas. I did think he was trying to intimidate me but I am not easily intimidated and I let him know as much. What the H difference did it make where I worked or for whom? I still have a right to express my opinion to an organization that is not funded by, nor is a board or commission of the City where I worked.

  30. Sorry…last two examples were from Marie and Chris.

  31. Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:44 AM
    To: PWC Police Department
    Subject: Case #08-039547

    Dear PWCPD:

    Yesterday, Officer Sundby visited me to discuss a complaint about a threatening email I received from Greg Letiecq of Help Save Manassas. As I explained to the officer, this was not the first time Mr. Letiecq has emailed me (the first time was sometime last year with a threat to sue me over my blog posting which contains links to supporting evidence).

    Apparently, since then, Greg Letiecq has decided to rant about me on his blog, BVBL.net which I have been banned from because I hold differing opinions. Besides labeling me as a Socialist (which actually amuses me because of my affiliations with fair democracy groups), he apparently has posted something about my being fired from Prince William County Public schools. This, of course, is not true. As I explained to Officer Sundby, I work contract from home, and since they do not have the online program they were offering before, I am not currently contracted with them. I am contracted with a college that I have worked for online for a little over six years.

    I just wanted to let you know because, since my visit from Officer Sundby yesterday, this has escalated into a personal attack against me and at least one other teacher whom he names in his blog.

    Finally, I want to thank Officer Sundby for taking the time to explain the processes of the police department regarding the immigration resolution. He cleared a few things up for me, and while I am still opposed to the resolution for a variety of reasons (which no one on the BOCS seems to want to hear from ANY Of us), I understand it’s not the PD’s fault. I hold your Chief in high regard for his handling of this no-win situation.

    Best Wishes,

    Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

  32. Firedancer

    This morning Chris wondered if cyberbully adults were bullies as kids. My impression is the opposite, i.e. that they were the victims of bullies as kids because they are social misfits. The few cyberbullies whose identities I know are either weird wackos and/or completely lacking in the social skills necessary to make positive connections with people. Spewing forth on the internet allows them to believe they are the alpha dogs that they can’t be in person.

  33. Care for some more BVBL?

    TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 28 Apr 2009 at 4:37 pm: Flag comment

    All we need next is for RINO Martian Nohe to become a Democrat so that he and his Anti-mistress Votedowngardt can openly lobby Corey Stewart to offer county tax subsidies for solar powered Bull-Dyke carbon-neutral vibrators.

    chucky said on 24 Apr 2009 at 3:48 pm: Flag comment
    Ted that is hilarious, I’m sure they stocked up on batteries for the even or just had KG along for the ride to turn the hand-crank when the sky got overcast. That was pretty funny, now I’ll have a very hard time sleeping since I have that disgusting picture in my head now.
    picturing any of those women in a pseudo-sexual way makes my stomach extremely ill….

    TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 23 Apr 2009 at 11:42 am: Flag comment

    The Potomac News is reporting the perpetual menstrual cramp bitches over at the anti site got out their solar powered vibrators yesterday to demonstrate carbon-neutral orgasms – the cold rainy day=2 0stopped the flow.

  34. Firedancer

    Moonhowler, our “friend” is a perfect example. No way could that nutjob have been a bully as a kid.

  35. Firedancer, you could be right. Like I said, there could be a myriad of reasons bullies are bullies. However, when they step up that behavior, encourage violence and act out their “issues,” it really doesn’t matter what the reasons are unless they are going to go into treatment of some kind and stop bullying.

    People say all kinds of crap on the internet. But most healthy people don’t go out and act on it.

  36. Firedancer

    I would guess said nutjobs were beaten up a lot as kids, hence feel ultrapowerful at the keyboard. Being mentally unstable doesn’t help.

  37. GainesvilleResident

    Slowpoke – but my point was what if those very same bullies that whacked you in shop also cyber bullied you too? Let’s put it this way, I had a physical defect when I was young that was corrected when I was 13 with plastic surgery. I was bullied physically on a daily basis all through school even after surgery until I graduated high school. Not until college did I escape that world. BUT, at least at 3 PM or whatever, when the bell rang, I knew freedom from the bullies awaited me! I can’t imagine what my life would have been like, as bad as it was, IF I was cyber bullied after school hours 24×7! That is my take on cyber bullying – for myself I’m glad the internet and instant messaging, (and cell phones) weren’t all around when I grew up. My bullying problems were contained to 8 AM – 2 PM or 9 AM – 3:30 PM depending what grade I was in. At least I always knew at worst case i had 6 1/2 hours of torture awaiting me. It occurred on a daily basis, throughout school, starting maybe from 3rd grade on up. Before that, kids were too young I guess to do it. Or I blocked it out, but don’t believe that is case – my memories of it all are as sharp as if it happened yesterday. Anyway, actually going to back away from this topic as not too interested in dredging up the past. But it is good that MH put it up, and some interesting discussion here.

  38. One more note on my quotes from the cyber bullies:

    These are the people who authored the resolution.

    That’s right, folks.

    These are the people who ran (and still try to run) our county.

  39. GainesvilleResident

    Totally disagree with your statements Firedancer. If so, then I would be a cyber bully. well, some of you probably think I am. I guess I don’t care, actually what you all think of me. There are some cyber bullies on here but those people have blinders on.

  40. GR, I know you hate my guts, but thank you for posting that and I am sincerely so sorry you went through that.

    I don’t think enough people know what bullying can do to a kid….or an adult. I can tell you first-hand as well what can happen.

  41. “I can tell you first-hand as well what can happen.” Incidentally, one of the things is that it can make you morally outraged which might not always be appropriately expressed.

  42. Firedancer

    Gainesville, I know you as an avid amateur astronomer, not a cyberbully!

    Certainly not ALL victims of bullies become cyberbullies, or mass murderers like the Virginia Tech guy, but there are many examples of victims lashing out, especially when combined with mental instability.

  43. Witness Too

    Pinko, I can’t believe how much misogyny is in those posts you quoted. In my experience, only the smallest and most cowardly men so deeply hate women. Other forms of prejudice are based on ignorance and, sort of primal fears of those who are different. As much as I dislike the idea of racial prejudice as a political force, I can understand where it comes from. They are just a host of negative stereotypes.

    Misogyny is a different matter. It comes from insecurity, I believe. A man who is unable to relate to women, and have women appreciate him, becomes a hater of women. I guess I am not surprised to find that some of the same people who were so insanely angry about the demographic shifts in our county are also misogynists. That just makes me feel really sorry for them. There is no political party for misogynists, and there is no support group, other than Greg’s blog I suppose.

    Pinko, I know that both Greg and Mr. Duecaster are morally challenged and even frightening individuals. But I have felt sorry for them at times, when there is this feeling of ganging up on one person.

    I feel the same way of course when you and other members of the “bravery in the face of organized hatred” club are attacked. I feel that is unjust as well. But I also admire you because you have not backed down, and I know that you have kept on going through what you’ve had to go through because you love this county and will not give in to the same phobias the rest of us have of standing up to bullies.

    So my bottom line is: when I see the ganging up on Letiecq and Duecaster, I feel a little sorry for them. When I see the ganging up on you, Alanna, and Elena, I admire you all the more.

    It’s two different reactions, but I have to agree with GR, there is something very unpleasant in both regards. I really regret that our county has devolved in to child’s taunts and bullying.

  44. GainesvilleResident

    OK Firedancer, fair enough! As long as you didn’t mean ALL, which I may have read into your post, sounds good to me!

  45. GainesvilleResident

    Actually you have a good point Firedancer – I can see how someone could become very angry at the world being bullied constantly. As I was very shy, that was not my reaction, but just made me more uneasy around people and took a lot of “work” on my part in college and beyond to get to where I was at ease in social situations, and comfortable speaking in public and at my job. My job forced me to adapt quickly upon graduation from college, as needed to make technical presentations to coworkers and eventually gov’t customers. Was not without its bumps and challenges, and took a huge effort on my part to overcome all that. I was always fearful people would form negative impression of me right off the bat when they saw me, even though no one would ever know i had physical deformity, but my self image was still not good for awhile. Have overcome all of that, but could write a book on that personal struggle. I could see how someone else in same situation as I could have gone other way and become a very hateful, mean person. The VA Tech thing, I could very very slightly identify with the shooter, only the point of he apparently was teased for his speech pattern and other behavior. I was an awkward shy person as a kid and had this deformity, so it compounded my problem. I was still awkward and shy in college too really, but managed to make many friends there which helped tremendously – first real environment I was in for long time where no one knew of my deformity – save for scout camp up in NH where I got job as electronics counsellor at age 15 and 16, and was well liked there but everyone always asked me why I was so shy. Still people up there very friendly, first real experience in world outside of home/relatives/few close friends where I was socially accepted and people were overtly friendly to me.

    Anyway, i will agree with your point that indeed, in some cases bullying will have the effect of turning people towards very negative feelings. For me, it was more a mistrust of people for a long time and uneasiness in social settings. I suppose a lot of psychological analysis could be done on cases like these, i could personally write a book on my own experiences and struggles. It would not be fun writing such book, nor would it be pleasant for the reader, plus I’m an engineer, not a writer.

  46. GainesvilleResident

    OK Pinko, fair enough. We’ll just have to agree to disagree about past events on here and move on, which is what I’d prefer to do actually. Tired of dredging up the past actually.

  47. Moon-howler

    I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. I have been gone for most of the day.

    Firedancer and I have spent some time discussing someone we feel is a cyber-bully. That person is not on this blog. I am sure she doesn’t think that everyone who was ever bullied turned into Charlie Manson. Our ‘friend, who I wouldn’t actually know if he walked up on my porch, bullies online. He bullies with his presence also.

    I expect most of us have been bullied at one time or another. Other people were scapegoats. I think that scapegoats suffer from more extreme bullying.

    I can remember being bullied by a girl name Ann who had had polio and was on crutches. If you didn’t do what she wanted you to do, she would hit you with her crutches and tell you that she was going to tattle that you were mean to her because she was crippled. Most of us learned to stay as far away from Ann as possible. She was a neighbor though and in our classes at school. Total avoidance wasn’t possible. The more we ran from her the more she tattled. Her mother called my mother many times about how badly I treated ‘poor Ann.’ There was no explaining to her mother what she was doing to us.

    Gainesville has described a more extreme form of bullying. He talked about dreading school, but knowing the end was in sight at 3 pm. Those kinds of scars you keep for life. The Ann kind, you get over.

    Slowpoke talked of getting hit with a 2 x 4 and wishing he could get cyber bullied instead. He is telling us that ‘pain hurts.’

    I might have missed a few personal accounts.

    What strikes me the most though is that people have repeatedly felt they were bullied here also. I don’t mean the black velvets who would say that to discredit us. I mean some of our regulars. Perhaps the self reflection is the most difficult part of this discussion. Someone brought up that we can’t see facial expressions, and that all we have to deal with is typed words. Do we come across as bullies and not realize it?

    I know many people here felt they were bullied on bvbl. That’s water under the bridge now. I think the people who really have been bullied are Chuck Colgan, Marty Nohe, and Chief Deane–people like that. People who have been called illegal alien apologists or traitors just for doing their jobs. But that is simply my opinion. Also, those were strong individuals who stayed the course and didn’t let that criticism sway them. For that, I respect all three of those men.

  48. Thumper

    Wow. I said I wanted examples. I didn’t know it would turn into all this!

  49. GainesvilleResident

    And I don’t “hate your guts” but I just think you still have blinders on and don’t really appreciate certain things. A bit of an assumption by the way about the “hate your guts” thing as I never said that. Maybe it was somehow implied in my posts, but then again I could have made the same statement about your feelings toward me, in your posts in response to my very first post and other posts on here. Not a good idea to assume what someone thinks, as I know i never said “I hate your guts”.

    At this point let’s just move on and agree to disagree. But thanks for you words saying you appreciated my post about my childhood bullying experience. i appreciate that – and decided to tell a small sliver of the story here as it fit in with the childhood bullying stuff and I speak out of painful personal experience. There are times even to this day when the scars of those times will reassert themselves at the strangest times, mostly when I’m in crowds of people – such as shopping malls, I can get a very uneasy feeling and almost need to flee. Very hard to explain or put into words. My sympathies lie with anyone who has been bullied on a regular basis as a kid – other kids can be extremely mean – meaner than adults in some ways! In my case bullying was often physical and aimed at my deformity – after plastic surgery kids had no idea what it felt like to be hit in that area – worse than a punch to the gut or groin – I would have much preferred that! Plastic surgery was right in June after 7th grade, so in early September still very sensitive in that area where said deformity was. Kids did not know that of course, just thought it was still great fun to attack me there, even though deformity gone and anyone seeing me on street would never know I had it. Won’t say what it was, just too personal to say here to the “world” as it were.

    Anyway, appreciate your sympathizing with my childhood issues Pinko. Very decent of you to say that, given our past differences.

  50. Firedancer

    Gainesville, I truly admire your post above. I admire that you are able to step back and analyze your situation, recognize your challenges and successes, and even lay it all out there. Obviously you’re a “together” person, resilient and self-aware. You said you were able to make friends in college, and I do believe that having meaningful social contacts is a key to psychological wellness. One can’t be an angry, bitter, vitriolic venom spewer and a loving person at the same time.

    It must be very scary to live with a mentally ill person, though, especially for the parents who have tried to do everything right.

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