A screening of the film “9500 Liberty” is scheduled for Thursday, May 21 at 7:30 pm at the Rosslyn Spectrum Theater. It’s based on youtube.com/9500liberty and covers two years in the debate over immigration in Prince William County. It’s being hosted by John Grisham and it’s a benefit for the Virginia Justice Center.
http://www.justice4all.org/Event
There is a private reception for donors, then a screening followed by a panel discussion. The screening tickets are $25 each. Virginia Justice Center works for the rights of the most underprivileged in our society.
Another screening is scheduled for June.
“Virginia Justice Center works for the rights of the most underprivileged in our society.”
What exactly is their definition of ‘underprivileged’, as if everyone doesn’t have the same privileges as demanded by law. If you are uneducated and poor it may be the person’s own fault, but then how do you make that distinction? Many graduating from the same school may wind up poor while others are highly successful. Same privileges, different outcome. I wouldn’t call it injustice, just ones inability to succeed or make the required effort. Not everyone is destined to become doctors, or heaven forbid, lawyers!
Given the presentation, I know who the ‘underprivileged’ are, and there is an entire country south of the border full of ‘underprivileged’ individuals. Now it’s our responsibility to help them as if we caused their plight? I don’t think so!
Second-Alamo, the movie tonight mentioned in the other thread, “Frozen River”, shows the underprivileged who live on an Indian reservation. The movie is more about poverty in upstate NY than about illegal immigration. Is it our responsibility to help out Native American underprivileged? Or is the European decimation of their culture so far in the past that the larger society owes them nothing more than the admonishment to pull themselves up by the bootstraps?
SA, the U.S. has historically exploited our southern neighbors in our self-interest. You don’t think we bear any responsibility at all to help them? Isn’t that also in our self-interest?
SA, do you support the idea of kiddos who are US citizens and who have grown up in our school system being able to attend college while paying in-state tuition rates – despite the fact that their parents may be here illegally? If not, don’t assume that those kids start out on equal footing – despite great grades or part-time jobs.
How about kids who come home from school to drunk, abusive, or stoned parents who don’t give a damn about the kids’ grades or prospects? Kids don’t choose their parents and they sure don’t all come from white bread, suburban, two-parent families who care about them. If you’re a nine year old kid who gets off the school bus and walks home to a family too worried about where the money for drugs or the rent is going to come from, chances are your parent/parents may not have time or the inclination to sit down and check your homework – or fix your breakfast or lunch in the morning. After you fall behind your classmates because of the lack of help at home, you might give up. If you’re determined and persevere, you might find adults who want to punish you with higher tuition rates because they disapprove of your parents’ choices.
Cindy, is the June screening closer to home (PWC/Manassas)?
As long as they stay in their native country (referring to illegal immigrants) I’m all for helping them, just leave us alone. They’d be happier there anyway. My problem is why must we always use our success to help people of other nations when people legally here are in need also. It seems charity should start at home you know.
I agree that the American Indian has gotten the worst deal of all. We have Mexicans in California claiming this is their land. I wonder what the American Indians would have to say to them! To me who owns the land is a matter of conflict, as it always has been. The spoils of war as they say. It may not be fair, but then humans have never been ‘fair’ to outside members based on any number of differences. Will that ever change? No. Look at the Civil War, no ethnic diversity there, yet we still found something to kill each other over.
Alamo, you have been propagandized into focusing on whatever three individuals innocuously and inconsequentially take the historical perspective that “this is our land.” Ideologues and agitators who would you have you focus on this “controversy” are simply hoping for your fear to overcome your sensibility … and that you will mistakenly look at the need for immigration reform in our country through a racial prism.
Some in the Native and Hispanic community would like for us to recognize the fact that those who are today considered to be Mexicans and Mexican Americans are descendants of Native Americans who were conquered by Spain, just as the Tuscarora and Cherokee are descendants of Native Americans who were conquered by England. If anything, a historical view of these peoples offers a sense of moral context, but little else in terms of solving the immigration issue. If it has served to upset you, I suppose Native and Hispanic advocates would consider it an acceptable byproduct of simply stating historical fact.
Fact it may be, but it is also a fact that this land now belongs to the legal citizens of the United States of America. No amount of sympathy for those of past history, or stating past history will change that. Those in California aren’t stating historical facts, they want to be in our face only because they can and get away with it. Hard to believe that this can happen by those who don’t belong here in the first place. It’s as if a ship full of foreigners pulled up and started telling us we must leave. Somehow I don’t think anyone would pay them any mind, but if they stayed in town for several years now we suddenly start listening. Makes no sense, as they still aren’t US citizens, and therefore are still foreigners.
“is the June screening closer to home (PWC/Manassas)?”
Don’t know. There was a similar screening with Grisham in Charlottesville last year. Don’t know if this is the final film either.
Here’s a better and more home-hitting subject to follow as far as education and state sovrienty is concerned: Horne v. Flores. The case is now in the supreme court, and their decision will very well impact all school systems in this country. Read up on the subject…it is very interesting…and can possibly impact every state in this country.
I notice in the Legal Aid Justice Center’s blurb for 9500 Liberty, they conveniently leave out the word “illegal” before immigration…..typical. Facts? Truth? Awww we don’t need to bother with that….just call it whatever you need to in order to further your cause.
DB –
Interesting – just wondering, in a time of massive budget crunches across the nation, where additional funds would come from. The biggest problem with IDEA, Title I and ELL/ESL funding is that even though the government mandates these programs and “provides” funding, none of these programs have ever been fully funded. IDEA (the law that mandates special education services) has only been funded at around 50% – meaning that states and local districts have to make up the other 50% of the funding. It would be interesting to see at what level the feds have funded ELL/ESL.
From what I read here http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Horne_v._Flores%3B_Speaker_of_the_Arizona_House_of_Representatives_v._Flores, the main issue wasn’t so much the amount of money, but the fact that
the school district picked out an ELL program but didn’t provide enough
funding to institute the program. BUT – under NCLB, the school district was able to show that the even though the program was supposedly underfunded, the ELL students showed gains using the NCLB ruler. So another main question is: Does NCLB trump EEOA in regards to educational programs?
Sorry to get all geeky, but education is what I do and these kinds of case are incredibly interesting to me, because as you stated they can impact districts all over the US.
Slow, we don’t know that every immigrant in Manassas who is poor is illegal. I am sure some are, but I am equally sure some aren’t.
Where are you going to draw the line?
And was your remark directed at 9500Liberty or at Justice 4 all? I don’t know anything about Justice 4 all organization but I also know for a fact that 9500liberty deals with all kinds of immigration issues, not just illegal.
It’s immigration. Go look at Federation for American Immigration’s(FAIR) website who authored the original version of the “Immigration Resolution”. I attended a Help Save Manassas meeting where they very openly aligned themselves with FAIR, denying that curbing legal immigration is a motivating factor behind many of these groups is futile.
I can’t say what any particular person’s motivations are, but clearly these organizations and their alliances are clearly anti-immigrant. Of course, their spin is that they are ‘pro-immigrant’, but the fact of the matter is they would like to severely restrict or curb levels to pre-1965 levels. From my perspective, that’s not exactly pro-immigrant.
No you wish you’re not geeky, you simply asked the same question that is before the supreme court..does compliance with NCLB trump EEOA? And if not, then why? NCLB is a federal mandate (educational/funding), EEOA is also a federal mandate (civil rights/nonfunding). Both are federally created, and if they don’t jive then whose to blame? The states?
– For the 100th time, Liberty St. is in the City of Manassas and
NOT Prince William County. The former signs(s) damaged Manassas,
but had no impact on PWC, except to amuse Corey and his gang.
Those attempting to support our entire community, especially
in such challenging economic times, are sickened by the continued
national publicity around 9500 Liberty St. The people behind
this continue to do great harm to our community as they seek
fame for themselves.
Poor Richard, I don’t think we can take what happened to our area in 2007-2008 can have boundaries drawn around it. I don’t think the issue had borders.
The work of 9500Liberty exposes how a community and a jurisdiction addressed issues of immigration. I do not see them having done great harm. I see that they have exposed a great deal of underhandedness and they brought transparency to the way Prince William County conducts business. It was very difficult to conduct the various witch hunts attempted by certain organizations with the video rolling.
Poor Richard, the City of Manassas is not without fault. I remember posting on a free-wheeling, diverse message board with a national readership. Someone linked an article about the definition of “family” being implemented by the City as a way of addressing zoning issues/overcrowding. The overwhelming majority of posters lambasted the City and offered up ways their communities (particularly college towns and California beach communities) had dealt with too many cars, noise, etc. I can’t remember a single post in support of defining “family”. Even the regular conservative posters kept quiet. I was astounded at the anger directed at the City. I personally think that that attempt to define “family” was a precursor to PWC’s actions in implementing the resolution. Manassas had been tolerant of diversity and had been welcoming in its festivals until a couple right-wingers hijacked the Council’s agenda. It took a recent election before moderates yanked the agenda back to normalcy.
I suppose the lesson to be learned – both by the City and the PWC Board – is to proceed with caution, examine the ramifications of any action, and size up the number and agenda of any groups pushing for radical change. Also, be willing to spend the money needed to address real problems.
Richard, I am also concerned about our county’s reputation, and I sympathize with Manassas residents who wish to God that HSM had been called HSPWC.
But there is only one group to blame for the fact that Corey Stewart is our county’s spokesperson and Greg Letiecq is our most famous citizen: the voters. We elected them, as well as John Stirrup, after they had shown their true colors. 9500 Liberty? They just amplified those colors for internet users, which in some ways means we as voters should accept more of the blame for reelecting these three.
Is anyone else going to attend? I think I might give it a go:)
Wish the PWC people on both extremes would have their hissy fits
in their own jurisdiction – Letieq, Fernandez and most of the other
bomb throwers live outside Manassas City, but come “to town”
to trash it on a regular basis. How about “Help Save Westgate”
and “9500 Dale Blvd.”? And what is the deal with the lady in
Manassas Park who claims she was attacted by a MP policemen?
Was that more publicity seeking? Resulted in a grand march,
you guessed it, through Manassas City. Leave us alone –
fight if you must – but in your own community.
Poor Richard, a few of us have been around since the good old days, when there was no seperate Manassas/Prince William. Many of us feel that the City is part of our community. I can’t vote in your elections is about the only difference.
I am howling over Help Save Westgate and 9500 Dale Blvd. You do have a good point there at least with HSWG. 9500 Dale Blvd would be a little tougher to pull off but it did make me laugh.
I always wondered what it was like here in the days before the City became a City and was part of PWC. I moved to PWC in 1981, but didn’t move to city of Manassas until 1983, so I misssed the great transition of Manassas to Independent City. Quite different up in New Jersey where I came from. They have counties, but every town and city has its own mayor. No real county school systems per se, at least not where I was from, but maybe in other parts of state. In any event, very different from the notion of counties here, and then independent cities within counties, that recently “became independent”.
When I moved here found it somewhat interesting, to say the least. As a city resident, I always felt left out in not being able to cast votes on county road bond issues, that affected my ease of driving, given that obviously I had to pass through county upon leaving city!
HSWG, funny! How about HSPOW (Help Save Point of Woods). I’d have probably signed up for that one if it existed. I know, I should have created that myself, but I’m not an activist type person.
FYI: Manassas was incorporated as a town in 1873 and became a
city in 1975. A town is still part of the county, but
under Virginia’s unique system, a city is not although,
for economy of scale, it may share selected services
with a county.
I am planning on going!
Thanks as always for the history Poor Richard. I was a little fuzzy on when Manassas became an independent City.
I have trouble remembering the year also. Many things changed in the county because of the City going city. I do remembering the event quite well though. It snuck up on everyone. There was a deadline. Turn into a city or forever remain a town. MP went city at the same time.
One issue that really upset the Manassas town folks was the PWC
decision to build a new Osbourn High School outside the town
and demolish the old school in the heart of their community. The
new school was to be still named Osbourn and keep the same
school colors and “Yellow Jackets” sports team name, but there
was little input allowed from the town and the move
reinforced a perception that power and tax money in the
mid-1970’s was moving to the rapidly growing eastern end of PW.
Plus,in an effort to please people from Manassas Park, the decision
was made to expand the name to Osbourn Park. Alas, that even
further enraged the Osbourn faithful and Manassas, followed
by MP, soon took city status – just before a state moratorium
that would bar that option.
Manassas and Manassas Park had to rapidly build/repair structures
for high schools and PWC, location wise, was left with a
white elephant of a HS. Even today, well over thirty years later,
an objective person might well look at the OPHS school
boundary and wonder why it was not located more central.
A local government dust-up more than three decades ago still has
some poor PW kids on overly long bus rides.
Thanks for that blast from the past, Poor Richard. I remember the fight but not all the details. What year was Osbourn Park open for business?
I recall MC was angry, MP was angry and an attempt to appease them was adding the word ‘Park.’ Wasn’t there also a big fight about trophies and pictures? Did city kids ever go to OP? Was Osbourn actually closed for a while until MC became a city?
Moon-howler, you are correct – there is still ill will over
the snatching of school trophies and, to this day, the refusual
of OP to allow OHS to copy a painting of Eugenia Osbourn given
by the Class of 1937 to Manassas, but stolen in the night
by PWC. And don’t even get local folks started on the infamous
theft of fire trucks and equipment by PWC – as always, under the
cover of darkness. They would have rolled up our streets and
slithered off with them if they knew how.
Ah, thanks Poor Richard about Osbourn and Osbourn Park. Always wondered why such similar names, seemed confusing to me – so THAT’S why. Very interesting little piece of trivia/history. Did not know there was state moratorium deadline that forced whether you became a city or lost your chance. Very interesting bits of history there I was not aware of. Must have been interesting time indeed. Especially how school systems separated, budgets, etc! And things like trophies, team names, and so on. Wow – never thought of all that. Sounds like a bit of chaos!
I know people were fighting mad over the trophies–to the point of fisticuffs. Poor Richard, could you provide a time line that includes the opening of OP, the closing of Osbourn, MC going city and the reopening of Osbourn.
This 9500 Liberty effort undermines our society in the same way that “illegal” immigration by British, French and Spanish “illegal” immigrants undermined the existing 500 American Indians of North America, of the previous topic.
As part Cherokee, I am outraged by the consequences of “illegal” immigration by Europeans (both English, French and Spanish) and the impact of guns, steel, and smallpox disease on KILLING 95% of all North American Indians.
In today’s numbers that is equivalent to killing 290 Million people out of an existing 306 million population.
I contend that 500 American Indian Nations were destroyed by illegal immigration, that completly changed the legal, financial, political, social and cultural framework of the society in the same way that modern “illegal” immigration is changing the legal, financial, political, social and cultural framework of the current society.
If I was a North American Indian then I would have fought against “illegal” immigration then, just like I am fighting against it now.
Illegal immigrants took Indian children from their parents, and forced them to change to the customs and laws of the “illegal” immigrants, rather than the customs and laws of the existing North American Indian federations. If it were not for guns, steel and disease, these 500 nations would still have economic prosperity today and would likely be under the equivalent of the EU in national construct.
That said, history is history, and the real issue is protecting my individual rights today to maintain my existing government, existing laws and existing concept of democracy against all factions foreign and domestic that would do it harm.
The primary faction doing the harm are the political factions that support “illegal” immigration.
9500 Liberty is one of those political factions doing harm to our democracy…
If you want to understand what happens when the number of “illegal” immigrants in a society approaches 30-40% of the existing population, then watch the CD documentary “500 Nations”.
500 Nations is an eight part documentary on the Native Americans of North and Central America. It documents from pre-Columbian to the end of the 19th century. Much of the information comes from text, eyewitnesses, pictorials, and computer graphics. The series was hosted by Kevin Costner, and directed by Jack Leustig. It included the voice talents of narrator Tom Jackson, Wes Studi, Floyd Red Crow Westerman, Eric Schweig, Michael Horse, Gordon Tootoosis, Graham Greene, and Tantoo Cardinal. “500 Nations tries to crystallize the sweeping events that reshaped North America- one of the largest and most pivotal stories in human history – a story we feel is widely unknown. Often painful, sometimes shocking, but in the end it is simply about understanding.
When you see this CD, you will then understand how 9500 Liberty is supporting “illegal” immigration as destructive to existing society as supporting “illegal” immigration of English, French and Spanish” immigrants was destructive to North American and South American Indian society, and why it is a political faction doing great harm to our existing concept of DEMOCRACY. The 500 Nations did not see their own demise coming either, and made treaty after treaty with the “illegal” immigrants in an effort to live together. It did not happen, and it will likely happen all over again as soon as the existing numbers of “illegal” immigrants approaches the number of “illegal” immigrants that destroyed 500 nations in the past. When that happens I’ll tell you who are “naive”, I told you so, and you did not listen.
Yes MH, I’m interested in seeing that timeline too, if Poor Richard has the time to post it. Some very interesting stuff, indeed. I can imagine fisticuffs related to the trophies. as to which “Osbourn” own them!
Here is a mini-movie you should see before you go to this 9600Liberty presentation:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6633620258136248169
If you have time, before you see 9600Liberty movie, this shows the ethnicity preferences that back the “illegal” immigration movement.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7446650228347650324
The case against multi-culturalism and separatism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=374731883913438555
Michael, you have obviously not seen any of the work of 9500Liberty.
Their work documents the illegal immigration issue in Prince William County from many different perspectives. They do not ‘support illegal immigration’ regardless of what you have been told or think you know.
So your video is about Roy “Gumballs’ Beck. Now that just makes me want to go right out and buy the movie. NOT. Discussion of Roy Beck is soooooo ‘last year.’
Moon, you are obviosly not accepting a balanced viewpoint. I have seen the 9500liberty films, and I agree with some of their statement and disagree with others. As I have said many times before, I look at both sides of the issues and find the truth, while throwing out the rhetoric.
None of these movies are about Roy Beck, you see one comment and throw the baby out with the bath water, when you make such comments that dismiss the views of others as invalid.
Here where I agree with 9500 liberty.
They accurately obtain testimonials about how “illegal” immigrants feel about their claimed right to solicit work, while loitering on private and public property.
They accurately represent the anger that other residents have regarding the blight on the community that loitering on the streets to solicit work causes, and the anger of property owners concerned that such behaviors will damage their business success.
They accurately identify the trash and abuse of property cleanliness, left as a result of people loitering to seek work.
They accurately represent that not all people loitering for work are “illegal” immigrants, some are legal, who have been in the country on a legal visa, or have obtain legal documentaqtion after previously being in the country “illegally”.
They accurately portray that law enforcement people can mistake those who are “legal” but hanging around those who are “illegal” as people who are also “illegal” because they are many time behaving the same.
They accuratley portray that many people who are pulled over in traffic stops are “legal” but choose not to give police officers their status when asked, unless they are arrested and taken to jail, for some other offense they committed.
They accurately portray that some members of our society in their anger at “illegal” law breaking, overstep emotional restraint and make statements that focus on ethnicity of an individual, rather than the behavior or legal status of an individual.
They accurately portray that the BOCS disagreed with the police chief’s policy on “illegal” immigration enforcement.
They accurately portray that both “legal” and “illegal” people came to BOCs meeting in protest of a mandate to require officers to check all people for “illegal” status, when stopped on a traffic violation.
Here is where I disagree with 9500 liberty.
They portray individuals such as Corey Stewart, Greg L and others as “racists” who oppose “illegal” immigration, and oppose people who break our community laws, and who believe that ALL people should equally be asked of their status during traffic stops as a means to identify and capture “illegal” immigrants in our community.
They never show the harm done by “illegal” immigrants in our community in their films, therfor never show a balanced film perspective representing what is best for the overall community.
They themselves have a racial bias in that they only interview hispanics and approach the interviews only from the hispanic population perspective, because they support hispanic special interest group positions such as MWB, and WBWU. Their connections with George Mason are only from the human rights liberals at George Mason, and only from the perspective of the individual rights of foreigners, not from the perspective of the individual rights of citizens.
They misrepresent the “resolution” as having a policy of racial profiling, and encouraging racial profiling, when in fact it neither has a policy to permit racial profiling in its wording, nor encourages officers, or the chief of police to embrace racial profiling. Such inaccurate reporting perpetuates false information and reinforces false beliefs in the Hispanic community, and other who support foreigners and support “illegal” immigration.
They blur legal immigration issues, with “illegal” immigration views so they can use either perspective as it suits them without being accountable for accuracy in their statements. This abstraction allos them to accusing others of wrong doing by association and implication rather than by fact or actual action.
They have a personal vendetta against people who oppose the lack of objectivity of their politically slanted films.
one correction, they do interview others besides hispancis but it is an interview meant to discredit those who oppose the filmakers political views, and the take interview statements out of context and weave a story that they want you to hear politically, rather than report what is a balanced and truthful perspective. It is a misrepresentation of truth, propoganda film, not a truthful and objective documentary.
Michael, I saw Glenn Beck’s face and heard his voice. That brings about an immediate intervention with my off button. I don’t know what to tell you. I am not going to sit there and watch Gum Balls Beck.
Where did you see the feature length videos of 9500Liberty? There have not been that many full length viewings. Perhaps if I knew which one you saw, I could address the issues you bring up.
Reminder: The current resolution is not the original resolution. It had no provision to check the status of everyone arrested. I don’t know why you think that was a concept brought forth by Letiecq and Stewart. I am pleased that you acknowledge that they worked together on this though.
Misrepresenting the truth? Do you feel that Chief Deane is a traitor? Do you feel he should be at the beck and call of the Chairman of the Board of Supervisors or should he answer to his boss?
Michael, I don’t agree. I saw the film last summer and the HSM members who were open minded enough to go see it said it simply showed what happened inside the Board chambers. It also gave Corey and Greg their fair chance to explain why they did what they did. The best part was it showed what happened BEHIND THE BOARD CHAMBERS in the “smoke filled rooms.” I think you should watch it. You might be surprised.
Yes Michael, I am wondering too, when and where did you see the full length film?
Roy Beck is against all immigration, I thought your “supposed” concern was “illegal” immigration.
I do not agree with Roy Beck on immigration. I have expressed my views and they are not the same as Roy Beck, or anyone else on the video. My concerns are wholly with “illegal” immigration, past and present, that has the potential to destroy our democracy. What I am presenting is the other side of the issue so all of you have an opprotunity to have a more balanced viewpoint from which to draw your political and ethical conclusions. It is the lack of those balanced views on this blog that is my point and primary concern, which is why I oppose some of you when you take a one sided stanch without all the facts, and operate on beliefs more than realities. Becks is not the only viewpoint in those films and “most” of you could learn from them before you saw the “other” views expressed by 9500Liberty.
I’m tired of the rhetoric.. here is the resolution, you show me where it says anything about racial profiling. The previous version was simply missing the words “if there is probable cause” making it MANDATORY FOR ALL INDIVIDUALS STOPPED REGARDLESS OF RACE, RELIGION, GENDER OR ETHNICITY.
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/006881.pdf
The current resolution does not prohibit officers NOR DID THE PREVIOUS version from reporting suspected “illegal” immigrants to ICE DIRECTLY.
Can we put this false belief system SOME of you have to bed. Also note WHY the board commended the police depertment for rescinding General Order 26.05? Because if was not catching “illegal” immigrants and officera by policy directive from the Chief in GO 26.05 “WERE NOT AUTHORIZED TO CONDUCT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION INQUERIES”.
In my mind this ammounts to not executing their required duties to enforce existing federal laws as law enforcement representitives of the people.
http://www.stoppwc.org/en/docs/exhibitC.pdf
Again MOON, do some research instead of just being a loud voice that “fakes it” to get the desired results on “issues you don’t give a rats ass about”.
In your own words….not mine.