Apparently John Stirrup, having sabotaged any opportunity for citizens to have 500 acres of parkland at no cost to the taxpayer, is now up to more shenanigans at Silver Lake!
Someone please tell him that this isn’t about politics, it’s about parkland. All we want is the assurance that someone’s not going to come along in two years or five years and put in a Splashdown Water Park or light up the night sky at Silver Lake or ???
Deed restrictions will guarantee that what we’ve been told is what will happen at Silver Lake. And the problem is ???
People have been commenting for nearly three years now, saying they want passive uses and horseback riding at Silver Lake. Stirrup’s 6/21/09 newsletter says he wants trails, bank fishing, picnicking and other passive recreation at Silver Lake.
Everything seems to match, so what’s the problem? Why is Stirrup opposed to deed restrictions? Could it be that he has other plans?
Deed restrictions would also help open Silver Lake sooner rather than later. Since the Park Authority has already agreed to restrict recreation uses at Silver Lake, there’s no need to re-start at the beginning. Deed restrictions will make sure that doesn’t happen. They will speed up the process and move us one step in the right direction. And Stirrup is opposed to this because ???
Stirrup’s newsletter tells us that, after Supervisors deadlocked on the outcome of Silver Lake in April 2008, he told county staff to negotiate a solution and asked to include the Nokesville Horse Society in the meetings. The newsletter suggests that negotiations failed because “all suggestions were unacceptable to the BRMC.”
Why was the Nokesville Horse Society invited but all other organizations were excluded? And I can tell you, the statement “all suggestions were unacceptable to the BRMC” is just not accurate. In fact, according the 10/21/08 press release issued by BRMC:
“Mr. Stirrup and his planning commissioner Martha Hendley were not supportive in BRMC’s original negotiation with the developer to proffer the entire 230 acres for parks, open space and recreation, and have remained unsupportive ever since.”
You can’t have things both ways. The deed restrictions proposed by May and Nohe support everything Stirrup says he wants at Silver Lake. So what’s the problem????
By putting their proposal forward in advance, May and Nohe gave Supervisors time to consider the issues, consult the County Attorney and be ready to vote at tomorrow’s meeting. After nearly three years of discussion, there’s no need for more delays.
So why is there so much controversy around this land? Just the fact that decision making has been postponed for about 3 years makes me suspicious.
Interesting about the horses. Why won’t Mr. Stirrup just say what he wants to do with the horses. Why was a horse association invited in to talks? Horses can be in the battlefield. Bicycles cannot be. This county already has accommodations for horses.
Silver Lake will be the ONLY public lake in PWC. Everyone has a stake in this decision. Years ago, Ben Lomond was just a swimming pool. Then came the mini golf course, then came the hydrotube, then came Splashdown and the charter buses.
Stirrup’s in a quandry. He was elected as the anti-development, pro-environment candidate but it is becoming increasingly apparent that he is neither.
He was ready to give 120 acres to Toll Brothers for development until Hilda Barg, Maureen Caddigan, and Sean Connaughton put a stop to it.
Honestly, I don’t understand all the fuss. These are restrictions that were already agreed upon by the Park Authority, so what the heck?
Wake up and smell the hay, of course someone named Stirrup would
have close ties with horses.
Elena, I’m going to have to come to Stirrup’s defense on this one. In my view he didn’t sabotage (at least single-handedly) the opportunity to procure 500 acres of parkland. That was a BOCS decision by a split board, a decision that was driven by differing opinions on the responsiblities of PWC with regard to the property in terms of ownership, stewardship, transfers to third parties, and ultimately which option was in the best interest of the taxpayers to whom the property was deeded. Reasonable people can have differing opinions on the details and ultimately the BOCS did. Yes there was an upside to the BRMC proposal, but to many, mystelf included, there were also substantial negatives.
That being said, I think its unfair to presume that Stirrup is necessarily opposed to the deed restrictions. What I believe he is opposed to is yet another 11th hour proposal by the grandstanding Coles Supervisor, one that has not yet been publicly disclosed, without so much as a courtesy call to the Gainesville Supervisor in whose district the property lies.
As late as yesterday, May and Nohe had not provided the details thus the board yet again HAS NOT had “time to consider the issues, consult the County Attorney and be ready to vote” at today’s meeting.
That being said, I agree that there’s no need for more delays, I just want to go fishing.
How about the horse involvement with Silver Lake? That all seems quite mysterious.
I am all in favor of the deed restrictions. I have seen what happens in the county to ‘modernize’ when someone wants to make a buck.
Since Silver Lake will be the only public lake in Prince William County, I think we all have a vested interest in it. I don’t believe the other supervisors are grand standing at all.
How is the involvement of the various equine interest any different that than the involvement of the BRMC (other than the fact that they weren’t sponsored by Lord Connaughton) or the various organized sports interests that also had input? There wasn’t anything mysterious about their involvement and in my opinion they were a lot more forward and open with regard to their interests than the BRMC.
But Mom,
These were the deed restrictions that BRMC was willing to sign on the dotted line. If it was good enough for them, why isn’t it good enough for the PA?
Furthermore, Alanna brings up a great point. Were it not for the intervention of Connaughton, Barg, and Caddigan, we’d have a quarry that was possibly contaminated and half a park. The half I might add that is the least attractive. We would have been financially responsible for maintaining the lake and YET not have full access as there would have been houses built on it. John was ineffective in procurring Silver Lake as a real asset. That is the simple truth. I am no fan of Sean’s but on this one he did good. John is an avid horse rider, owns a horse farm, is there a conflict there? How was the BRMC not open? What is their interest except to protect open space for everyone. Horse back riding is a specific interest for specific people. For the majority of of us who simply want to have a park to fish, swim, camp, etc., having one entity have so much influence seems unfair. The are horse back trails and riding is sufficient.
It was a split vote 3-3 with Wally and Frank abstaining to see if the BRMC and PA could partner together. As stated above, John made it very difficult as did Jay Ellington to come to common ground. Personally, I’m still at a loss why a republican would turn their nose up at free land and free infrastructure. Isn’t there this who faith based intiative with non profits? Why is open space any different? What exactly were the negatives for citizens Mom?
E gad. I wonder who put little man Stirrup up to this? Turning on two fellow Republicans. It seems to me Stirrup’s latest tantrum-on-command has everything to do with political infighting and nothing to do with land use, the environment, or the county’s best interest.
If Stirrup is sincere in his support for passive recreation at Silver Lake, why not put it into writing? The public consensus has been clear for over two years now. If he is truly in support of passive recreation at Silver Lake, why did he cause Prince William County to miss its opportunity to gain FREE land and FREE money for a public park? Do Stirrup’s handlers have some secret plan for Silver Lake? A lighted arena to choke up our freeways even more? Intensive use just for the horse riders? A shrine to Rush Limbaugh?
“The east end Supervisors are meddling!” The nerve. There is a reason why the Board has 8 members. The Gainesville District is NOT John Stirrup’s little fiefdom. God help us if it was. There would be a barbed wire fence around it with armed guards directed to keep out the minorities. Only the Gainesville Supervisor gets a vote on Silver Lake?! If it were it not for Sean Connaughton, Maureen Caddigan, and Hilda Barg, there would be a park less than HALF the size it is now! There would have been McMansions blighting the BEST part of the lake and the citizens would have been stuck with the quarry.
Stirrup’s two handlers are clearly unnerved by shifts within the party toward reasonable, consensus-building, and forward-thinking Republicans like Nohe and May, and AWAY from far right extremists with race phobias and anger management problems. Maybe Stirrup will have to move again. That is the direction most Republicans want to go, not just in this county either. We don’t need to see infighting within the party to try to delay the inevitable.
Apparently Mom is supporting someone who turned down 270 acres of free parkland next to Silver Lake and $1 million in private funds to develop the parkland. Why would anyone support supervisors who refuse to make a public commitment as to how the park will be used?
From previous comments, I thought Mom was a supporter of public disclosure. Now s/he’s supporting someone who gave preferential treatment to one organization, Nokesville Horse Society, by giving them exclusive access to the back room Silver Lake meetings. I think someone needs to adjust their bs detector.
Anonymous, that is my point as well. I don’t understand why it is so important to defend John Stirrup from his own record. He is an extremist, I can accept that, but why can’t he work with the rest of the Board in good faith without becoming territorial and back biting?
I think everybody is reading a little too much into my comments so I’ll take them one by one.
Elena, as to the PA and deed restrictions, I don’t know that they are necessarily opposed to them. I have no issue with them and would be unhappy if the PA does. With regard to the half a park/quarry/houses on the lake, based on what I know of the rezoning negotiations, the proposed houses were merely a ploy by the developer and there was no real likelihood that the initial development plan was either the intent or likely to be accepted. It merely provided some good PR cover for the BOCS. Similarly, how does John’s interest in horses make for any greater a conflict than those that might be ascribed to Marty and the Chamber of Commerce or May and PWCA. They all have interests and affiliations that may or may not impact their decisions. I’m not condoning the circumstance, merely pointing out that exist on many levels. Wally and Frank seemingly took the easy way out by not taking a position, particularly Wally who would have had to deal with a number of angry and wealthy constituents (not that he actually avoided getting their dander up). I will agree that Ellington has been obstructive, but I come to expect that from most staffer for the county (just my jaded perspective).
LBH, as to Stirrup’s “tantrum-on-command”, I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same. At first blush, Nohe and May’s press release seems little more than grandstanding on an issue on which there is little dissent (passive uses at Silver Lake), I believe Stirrup’s problem is that they didn’t have the courtesy to even inform his office prior to the press release. No its not his fiefdom but in virtually every instance, the district supervisor is given at least a modicum of input and notice regarding decisions directly impacting his/her district.
Anon, I’m not supporting anyone on either side of the perceived issue and the view that the BOCS simply turned down 270 acres and $1 million in private funds is simplistic at best. I am in favor of full public disclosure and don’t support preferential treatment for the Nokesville Horse Society or the BRMC, both of whom had their share of exclusive access to back room Silver Lake meetings prior and subsequent to the actual rezoning.
All that being said, what has gone largely unrecognized is that there is a larger issue behind many of the decisions made and positions taken with regard to the Silver Lake property, an issue that fundamentally impacts the votes of particular supervisors. That issue is how each view the disposition of public property granted to the taxpayers. Some view the BRMC proposal as acceptable, others believe it should and must remain under public control, again reasonable people may differ on this and there likely is no absolutely right answer, it depends largely on how you view the role and responsibilities of the governing body.
If Moms main issue is the disposition of public land, I wonder where s/he was when supervisors gave public parkland to the Marines for the museum in Dumfries. Where were you when supervisors gave public land to the nonprofit ATCC. Where were you when supervisors gave a long-term sweetheart lease on public land (at Silver Lake) to Rainbow Riding Club.
I am not saying these things are bad. In fact I think they are good ideas. I just do not understand why BRMC is different than the other entities that received public land. Just as the others who received public land, BRMC would have brought significant resources to the county. No different than the others.
I am starting to wonder about the double standard. Was BRMC different because they are a conservation organization? Are May and Nohe the only supervisors who understand these issues? Scary thoughts.
Mom, I still think you need to check your bs detector.
My BS detector works just fine, especially since I’m usually up to my neck in it.
PWCA was NOT at the table during negotiations though Mom. I would actually agree with you, it shouldn’t matter as long as all points of view are invited to participate. John being a member of HSM did not seem to be a conflict during the immigration resolution, I certainly hope Mike being a member of PWCA is treated no differently.
Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that PWCA was at the table on this issue, I was merely using it as an example of a group with a link to a particular supervisor.
Any time Greg is over throwing a fit about something and I see the usual deep breathing from the Queen of FOIA then I know they are up to something.
I don’t see any reason why Mike May being on PWCS should cause a problem. No one is asking for the land for themselves. John Stirrup likens his membership to being in the Lions Club or some other civic organization. Mike May can just use the same reason. His membership is in a more honorable organization.
Some western end people are tired of horses winning out. The Battlefield Picnic area closed down completely. A horse trailer lot was built across the road. There are at least 3 other places for parking horse trailers.
Bicycles are not allowed in the battlefield because (as was told to my son) the bikes might scare the horses. So cyclists are out, horses are in. There are no public bike paths in that general area to my knowledge.
Great point M-H!
That’s pretty funny that bikes might scare the horses. Where the horses come out of the trailers is right next to Rt. 29 with cars zipping by. If the cars don’t scare the horses right after they come out of their trailers, it’s hard to imagine bicycles doing so. Sounds more like an excuse to me to keep bicyles out of the park for some reason – of course this is the National Park Service we’re talking about – the same ones who’ve made other dumb decisions at the Battlefield.
Mom, I don’t recall Stirrup giving the supervisors a courtesy call before introducing the resolution. Remember, some of them felt two weeks was not enough to put the resolution to a vote, and they stated it was the first they’d heard of it. Furthermore, John, nor his staff respond to all constituents(even avid supporters). With that being said, why would someone even waste their time on contacting his office? Note: I personallly don’t feel the supervisors owe one another courtesy calls, they should working TOGETHER, and I don’t exactly see that happening.
I loved Silver Lake growing up and it’s a real shame that my daughter will not have the same type of childhood memories. I want to go fishing and camping there. We should be able to fish at Lake Manassas too, but nooo we can’t have those rich folk looking at people enjoying some family fun fishing on the lake. I thought Republicans were about “family values”…if that’s true then why is our predominantly Republican board denying the entire county a great place to have some good ole fashined family fun??
I for one would HATE to see Silver Lake turn into another “Splashdown”. Those families that enjoyed Ben Lomond pool no longer have a community pool they are left with an overpriced water park. The citizens were ripped off!!
Mom, of course the resolution I spoke of earlier was the Immigration Resolution.
Nor do I recall a heads up regarding today’s resolution in support of Frank Wolf’s Powerline initiative. That being said, I draw a distinction between those resolutions (and yes in todays instance it could be characterized as grandstanding as well) which are independent of magisterial districts and those directed at location specific land use matters. Yes, it would be nice if they were working together but given the personalities and agendas involved, I just don’t see that happening most of the time.
Again, nobody is denying residents anything (at least not yet) so its premature to believe that the citizens are getting ripped off. My point remains that there would be far less Sturm und Drang if Nohe and May had exercised a little common courtesy.
Lastly, regardless how we have arrived at this point, count me in as part of the angry mob should the BOCS attempt to turn Silver Lake into another Splashdown. For what its worth, I don’t have a problem getting a response from the Gainesville Office and if circumstances dictate, I would be more than happy to express any displeasure with an unsatisfactory outcome.
Lafayette, funny you should mention rich people. My son is over here now going off on the number of horse trails all over the battle field. He has said screw it and taken his bike out there and ridden the horse trails. He said there are miles and miles of trails. He feels that the horse lobby rules each and every time. He and other cyclists have attempted to get rules changed for cyclists. The Battlefield people won’t even meet with them. He says all the trails are just for rich people.
It sounds like that is who Silver Lake will be for also.
Splashdown is just a circus. Not only is it lit up down there like a Christmas tree at night, charter buses often run up and down a neighborhood road. Food delivery trucks, traffic, hundreds of cars all bless the neighborhood with their exhaust fumes. Check out the median strip area and curbs along Sudley Manor Drive. These cars think nothing of throwing their trash out the car window.
The Silver Lake public hearing section of the meeting has been moved up to ..NOW. (2:30) One of the supervisors has to leave early.
Now, now Mom. How you say the citizens aren’t being denied anything yet? How many citizens have been able to go spend the day or weekend at Silver Lake in the last year.
I’m sure you don’t have a problem getting a response. However, I do feel a tagging on a public sidewalk that’s been there for two years is worthy of a response. Funny thing is, I was responded to when they told me they would be reporting it to the proper departments. When, I emailed them last year that the tagging was still there I got NO response back from them. This tagging happened at the peak of them in WG, and they were getting results that the citizens were not. I’m not even wasting my time this year. I have never seen you unwilling to express any displeasure. It’s a well know fact I’m NOT a Republican, HSM member, or a white male. At this point it’s my perception that one if not all three are contributing factors to my not getting responses since April of 2008. Hmmm….
Silver Lake has been moved up and now being heard.
oops Mom
How CAN you say the citizens……
Mom, then you should have no problem with deed restrictions. Deed restrictions ensure that Splashdowns don’t rear their ugly heads. But you knew that.
We simply want to guard the passive recreation area for our posterity, regardless of whom is on the BOCS, Park Authority, or other factors that might influence future growth.
Moon, agreed. Check out the plates on the cars at Splashdown on the weekends, very few VA plates, and even less PWC county stickers. If I didn’t know where Ben Lomond park was, I would swear it was in Maryland.
The public hearing is now starting. Citizens are speaking.
MH, I hate to be repetitive, but I am not opposed to the deed restrictions.
Lafayette, that is a great point about the Immigration Resolution. That thing was plotted as an ambush by Stirrup and his handlers (Letiecq and Stewart) with no warning and no planning and no foresight. If I were trying to defend John Stirrup’s latest tantrum, I would not have used that particular line of reasoning.
M-H, I can’t believe Stirrup’s latest tantrum is all about equestrian snobbery. Can that be? Stirrup clearly favors equestrians over those of us who cannot afford or have no interest in such a hobby. But why would his handlers go along unless there was some political power play involved?
But back to Lafayette’s point. When Stirrup and his handlers introduced the Immigration Resolution, most of the other Board members tried to work with him, IN SPITE OF THE AMBUSH, because they are team players. Instead of taking a position against Stirrup/handlers, they painstakingly revised the policy over a matter of months to minimize the damage it would cause. They did this because they knew there was no need to allow the ugly and hateful fighting in the community to infect the Board. I can’t see why Stirrup/handlers cannot afford May and Nohe the same courtesy on this matter. Is this simply jealousy from the has-beens toward the rising stars?
No deed restrictions guaranteed honky tonk will be in place to generate revenue.
Not too long ago, the BOCS wanted to take over their budget as they had concerns about control. So why on earth is this situations becoming a him/they?? What is with the complaints about which BOCS member taking a stand on issues outside their magisterial area? Why do a few feel the need to constantly polarize …..
I don’t know what Mr. Stirrup’s intentions are. I was speaking for my son about the horse people having more priviledge than cyclists. He feels horses shouldn’t rule to the exclusion of others.
I agree with Juturna:
However, the substitute motion with deed restrictions has failed.
I was thinking the same thing Juturan. Does anyone remember Lake Ridge Park? John Stirrup was head of the PA and he refused to listen to citizens when they didn’t want the small piece of trees and open space cut down. Lake Ridge citizens prevailed, they saved their 3 acres of heaven, not thanks to John Stirrup. What a fiasco! It never ends does it. Good job Mike and Marty, you tried your best!
Within 10 years there will be some revenue generating enterprise out at silver lake. It is the nature of the beast. Too bad so many citizens failed to understand what the PWCA was attempting to do.
Lafayette and I will be glad to give guided tours of Ben Lomond Park to show how a simple swimming pool can grow into an 8000 armed octopus. (with Maryland tags)
Loss of green space is and has historically always been about money.
Always.
Do the Maryland folks pay more?
Juturna, I do not believe that they do. One size fits all.
Hey, Stirrup just complimented two women from the Westgate area for their community service. Chris Pannell and someone else.
Chris Pannell’s rocks.
Chris Pannell rocks. I am really challenged today.
OMG! I turned them off after Silver Lake. We delivered 1,000 informational bags yesterday to WG and have had volunteers helping those in need with some serious yard work.
Well, I’m most grateful for the recognition. Thanks, John.
Nice to see you back Juturna! 🙂
Chris Pannell does indeed rock. I am no expert on the Silver Lake issue, but I agree with Juturna. Why on earth does there need to be a Gospel Greg attack on something that basically boils down to bikes or horses!!! Does John Stirrup just not know how to do his job without turning this county against itself? Some people just thrive on conflict. But that’s no way to run a county government.
Nice job Chris, see where learning to play their game (along with an occasional wardrobe change) can result in a positive impact.
I didn’t know the history of Splashdown, in regards to how it once was I guess a county park. I always wondered actually how they could build such a thing so close to a residential area, actually. I’ve never been to it, but the huge waterslides can be seen from Amherst Dr. which I used to take as a shortcut to get to Centreville from Point of Woods area. It always struck me as a very strange place to have such a park.
Mom, I’m never going to live the wardrobe thing down. 😉
Seriously, thanks for the compliment.
Thanks, Shelly. I have pictures of the hard work that’s been done here in WG. Always, armed with the camera. 😉
What happened to the third lady? Congratulations, Chris. I turned it off also.
I believe Chris learned to play her own game, rather than other people’s.
@Moon-howler
Actually, there is a picnic area at Manassas Battlefield Park. It’s at Stewart Hill on 29.
I mean Stuart Hill. Heh. My Freudian slip is showing.
It is nothing like the old picnic area where people used to be able to go for celestial events. There is just too much light around now also.
I think that the picnic area is also seasonal. Does anyone know for sure?
Hopefully the Silver Lake area will be able to be used for night time sky watching. Many people in the area now have to go out to Delaplane to Sky Meadows State Park.
I expect that Silver Lake will become what many of us do not want it to become. The horse set was also entirely too interested in the property. That sure made me perk my ears up.