Sunday, armed soldiers awakened the President of Honduras and ran him out of the country in his bedclothes. The president, Manuel Zalaya, is now living in Costa Rica.
President Obama has spoken out against the ousters of the president saying:
“We do not want to go back to a dark past,” Mr. Obama said, in which military coups override elections. “We always want to stand with democracy,” he added.
The intrigue continues when considering the past history of the United States in such matters:
According to the NY Times:
The United States has a history of backing rival political factions and instigating coups in the region, and administration officials have found themselves on the defensive in recent days, dismissing repeated allegations by President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela that the C.I.A. may have had a hand in the president’s removal.
Obama administration officials said that they were surprised by the coup on Sunday. But they also said that they had been working for several weeks to try to head off a political crisis in Honduras as the confrontation between Mr. Zelaya and the military over his efforts to lift presidential term limits escalated.
The United States has long had strong tie
s to the Honduras military and helps train Honduran military forces. Those close ties have put the Obama administration in a difficult position, opening it up to accusations that it may have turned a blind eye to the pending coup. Administration officials strongly deny the charges, and Mr. Obama’s quick response to the Honduran president’s removal has differed sharply from the actions of the Bush administration, which in 2002 offered a rapid, tacit endorsement of a short-lived coup against Mr. Chávez.
This situation certainly bears watching. It has the potential to blow up in many faces and the response so far seems quite different from the usual responses from the United States. President Zalaya is considered leftist. Fidel Castro and Chavez have both called for a return to power for Zalaya.
The Obama adminstration has been watching the crisis build for several weeks. Zalaya wanted a referendum to lift the term limit restrictions on the presidency. Secretary of State Clinton was there in early June. She had been annoyed with the man’s unreasonable demands. You really need to read the time line of events in the link. The saga is too long for the blog.
Should President Obama take the same stand that Chavez and Castro take? Is the U.S. complicit in the military operation? What really is our past history? Have we meddled, as a nation? How come President Obama spoke out immediately about the Honduras coup but not the Iranian protests?
Speak, contributors!
Full story in the New York Times.
[UPDATE: 7/6/09 Deposed President Zalaya attempted to fly back to Honduras today from Dulles Airport after meeting with OAS. His plane was not permitted to land. The runways were blocked by tanks and military. His supporters were tear gassed and it is thought some were shot. ]
I don’t know much about the history of Honduras itself. However, from what I’ve read over the years, one could almost write a book on the USA’s involvement in various covert activities in Central and South America over the past several decades. It would be interesting to know what our involvement has been in Honduras in recent years, I just don’t know. I never heard of Zalaya until this became a news item in recent days.
Given some of the stuff the Obama administration is trying to push, I honestly don’t see much difference in Obama/Chavez/Castro/Zalaya. Philosophically they’re all the same person.
Also, given his diminishing approval ratings I hope centrists that voted for him are finally seeing him for what he is.
The attempt in Honduras to trample on the constitution and set up a “president for life” is 100% in line with the Obama administration. Anyone with half a brain who is paying attention to the massive power grabs as of late cannot deny that the policies of the current administration and those of the banana-republics are totally synched up.
I just don’t see things quite as draconian as you all do. Where is Obama’s referendum for Prez for Life? Next session?
Mando, McCain probably would have won if he had trusted the centrists and not put Palin on the ticket. For some of us, she was a real deal breaker. I just couldn’t do it.
M-H, you have the patience of a saint.
It seems every international news item, no matter how remotely related, is a reason to voice paranoid delusions. Go figure. I guess it would be fruitless for me to point out the danger of suggesting that a violent coup attempt might be in order in this country, so I’ll just laugh and shake my head.
But it just seems to me that the word “centrist” has lost it’s meaning when Rush Limbaugh is your “centrist” and Colin Powell is your traitorous left-winger. I wonder, in such a feverishly warped universe, whether anyone actually believes what they say, or if there is some therapeutic value in making outrageous statements AS IF they are somewhere believed. My fear is that some actually believe it, perhaps not on this blog but certainly there are believers out there who do not have the reality interface that this blog provides.
If Rush Limbaugh is a centrist then I am a card carrying member of the communist party, right along with Colin Powell. Shudder!!!
There is a real issue here with location. Any time there is a coup in the Western Hemisphere, in particular in North America, then we need to pay very close attention. Honduras is right in our back yard.
Any upset in that part of the continent very easily could affect future immigration. It is in our best interest to have these countries stable.
I’m thinking not in terms of president for life, but in terms of more govt. control. Obama isn’t as blatant as the socialist leaders to the south but his proposals sure do hearken to theirs. Rome wasn’t destroyed in a day.
With all his so called “stimulus”, unemployment is still rising while the govt continues to grow. Huge income disparity and more govt control are the seeds of socialism.
BTW, I’ve NEVER in my life heard Rush Limbaugh’s show. Not one second.
I agree somewhat Mando but I think that it’s more of trying to ensure that people vote Dem from now on by providing more and more entitlements and government provided answers. Providing free health care, more unemployment, and then sprinkle in 20 million new citizens via amnesty while making middle Americans pay for it all is a sure way to widen the Democratic voting base.
He has already started on his way to sure up the union votes by bowing down to them at every turn. They are even now thinking of taxing our health benefits, but not if your in a union… hmmm…
And how’s it working out for you?
No question Obama is beholden to the unions. The GM bailout and bankruptcy was definitely done in such a way to maximize benefits to the unions. One can argue whether unions are good or bad, but when the gov’t effectively is taking over the company and then forcing concessions to the unions, it’s not probably the best thing – certainly not in the interests of the company.
Necessary about 100 years ago. Bad now.
Now WE, as in the US taxpayer, are subsidizing unions in the same way that we subsidize illegal immigration. The two have much in common. Both screw over the middle class and both are in bed with the democrats.
I personally don’t like unions very much, but I come from a biased point of view there. My uncle was HR manager of a medium sized manufacturing company and involved in a ton of union negotiations, and he used to tell me about the negotations and some of the crazy things the unions demanded, as well as how they forced a union supervisor on almost every little job – eseentially doubling the cost of the work. This company basically made drywall from gypsum, and you guessed it, the added costs from the unions were directly passed on to consumers, or at least contractors who bought the drywall for use in houses. Some of the things the unions demanded were just plain unreal. Probably there was a time many years ago when companies took real advantage of manufacturing workers and unions were necessary.
Anyway, i just caveated what I wrote as I remember before some discussion of unions came up, and at least several posters on the blog thought they were a good thing.
Hey…what’s wrong with Commies? 🙂
Being in bed with Democrats is not necessarily a bad thing. Mando, ever tried it? 😉
I am not a particularly pro union person. However, I am not an anti union person either. I think more of unions in the right to work states than I do in closed shop states. It also depends on the union.
What I want to know is where is Joe Biden on this matter… hell, where is Joe Biden on Iran, North Korea, etc… wasn’t he the foreign relations expert between the two?
Maybe Obama wised up and has duct tape across Biden’s mouth! We wouldn’t want the “foreign policy expert” to slip up and say something stupid now, would we?
Actually GR I think you never hear the “expert” talk about foreign policy because he is way too busy looking after stimulus money because ‘nobody messes with Joe’.
But shoot, according to old Joe himself, economics is above his pay grade as the vice president of the United States and Obama appointed watchdog of stimulus money: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2269094/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2269094/posts
I hadn’t heard that particular gaffe of Biden’s – thanks for the link, it was good for a laugh. You can always count on Biden to provide a laugh every time he opens his mouth!
I believe the ‘above the pay grade’ comment was made by Obama on the subject of when life began.
Joe is off working with duct tape. That’s fine.
You know this is beginning to remind me of the Clinton years. That is the worst I have ever seen other than Nixon, who more or less brought it on himself.
I find it interesting that there is a coup in our own hemisphere and no one really has much to say about it other than to criticize Obama for slamming those who forcibly removed a president at gun point.
I am going out on a limb and simply say, good for Obama. Gun point is not the way to handle anything, I don’t care what it is. There should be mechanisms in place to remove a rotten president. On the other hand, if he had said good, the guy was trying to crown himself king forever, then Obama would be criticized for that. I do understand how the game is being played.
You right Moon, it wasn’t Obama that made the ‘economics is above my pay grade’, it was Biden himself. You know, the guy that Obama declared as the stimulus money watchdog.
Reading a few articles on the history of Honduras and it turns
out they fought a war in 1969 with El Salvador over a disputed
border, football game(soccer) AND the large number of
Salvadorans living in Honduras ILLEGALLY! Interesting.
It would seem to me that anyone who had concerns over immigration, legal or otherwise (since a tps is considered legal) might be concerned over the outcome of a war in this area.
I thought they had been in one more recently than that, Poor Richard. I guess I am thinking of Nicaragua and the contras.
That’s really bizarre – I never heard about a country going to war partially over a disputed soccer game. Although I know soccer is a really big deal in many countries in that region. Also funny about the war being partially about illegal immigration! A definitely interesting piece of history trivia there as usual, Poor Richard!
The whole thing with the Contras is probably the most I know about any conflict in that region, thanks to all the notoriety that gained during Reagan’s term with the whole thing with Oliver North!
GR, there was definitely some meddling going on. Serious meddling. Meddling we will probably never know the whole truth about.
I think the Obama Presidency is going very well. There should be no surprise that the Republican party, even in decline, even in chaos, even with its rampant hypocrisy, even with all of the sex scandals, and even with the infighting, can still manufacture and constantly repeat a list of bogus reasons to be angry that Obama was elected last year.
This forgone conclusion doesn’t detract from the fact that we as a nation are modernizing our economic infrastructure and making crucial investments that will pay dividends for generations to come.
If you don’t like the ditch Bush and company drove us into, how about waiting until Obama and company gets us out of that ditch before you memorize another list of anger-me-Elmo talking points.
I am just sitting back and watching at this point, Witness. If the Republicans had spent enough time seeking a viable VP candidate as they have villifying President Obama, there might have been a different outcome. I saw the same thing happen with Bill Clinton. Then the Republicans all did the shock and awe thing in 2000, after that much disputed election, when the Democrats struck back. Well, duh, what did they think was going to happen?
Basic rule of all main religions–The Golden Rule
Add to that the rule about not stealing from taxpayers, like Democratic Senator Daniel Inouye. A bank that wasn’t even eligible for bailout got a healthy $135 million after a call from Inouye’s office. Inouye has shares in that bank worth $350,000 to $700,000, some owned by his wife.
No corruption or conflict of interest with Democrats at all…well, maybe just a little. Or maybe they’re no different at all.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/30/AR2009063004229.html
That’s the third stage of Syphilis.
I never said a think about anything but the attack mode. And the Democrats and Republicans will continue to get even until both of them destroy this country. But the Republicans should stop being suprised. Now that I find funny.
Now, this thread is about Honduras. Nice try…There is an open thread if anyone has anything to say way off topic.
@Moon-howler
He started it 🙂
You bettcha, Slow!! 😉
The official word now on Sean Hannity is that Obama is catering to dictators. (rolling eyes)
Now wait, who would clap and cheer for an elected president to be rousted out of his bed in his PJs and sent to Costa Rica?
That would be quite a news item if the New York National Guard ran Mayor Bloomberg out of the country at gun point at the first mention of term limit extension. The problem with preposterous goons like Hannity being presented as a legitimate “news” man is it gives amateur goons the idea the ought to make up ludicrous Anger-Me-Elmo talking points of their own. It also makes them susceptible to other types of propaganda that push the envelope even farther. Thus the rash of right wing domestic terrorism. It is frustrating when the political team you root for is dismissed in an election landslide. We don’t need to have people driven to insanity by these false hysterics being manufactured for them. I truly feel sorry for these people so wound up by lies and unnecessary anger. If only they could notch it up a degree and watch reruns of “Saved by the Bell” 24/7. They would be happier and we would be safer.
How can any legitimate self-described ‘patriot’ like Hannity possibly criticize an American president for speaking sternly to military thugs who oust an elected president. Regardless of how bad Zalaya is, he was democratically elected.
Strange how someone like Hannity can get all teary-eyed over Iraqis voting (after we blew their country to smithereens) and then get on his high horse over our president supporting an elected president who was removed at gun point in a military coup. Talk about cherry picking!
Not that Mr. Hannity is anywhere close to knowledgeable enough about politics outside of this country to make a qualitative judgement about Honduras’ ousted President, but my guess is that he was told that President Zalaya’s politics are left of center and the military dictator newly installed is firmly rooted on the right … as military dictators tend to be. Thus, it isn’t any wonder that Mr. Hannity sides with the military dictator. Democracy has never sat well with Hannity. The word sounds too much like Democrat.
I believe that American foreign policy should favor democracies over military dictatorships in the Americas and around the globe. President Bush was right when he said that democratic nations are less likely to threaten their neighbors. “Naturally the people do not want war,” or so the story goes. But when nations are run by military dictators … or even elected leaders who stand to profit from military exploits … the will of the people can be manipulated or simply ignored and costly wars ensue.
“How can any legitimate self-described ‘patriot’ like Hannity possibly criticize an American president for speaking sternly to military thugs who oust an elected president.”
Maybe because of how he didn’t want to mettle in Iran politics and didn’t say much at all for two weeks while people were being killed in the streets but then comes out and talks freely about Honduras situation the same day it happened… just a guess.
Witness Too, if you think that the Republican infighting is bad take a look at what the Dems are doing. It’s great, they bash each other every chance they get. They are now starting to do what the Republicans did and have been doing, running out their moderates. Which is awesome for the Republicans…
Just look at MoveOn.org… they are running nasty commercials in every Dems home district that doesn’t vote for anythig and everything Obama. Some are even called unpatriotic and traitors. Keep it up Dems!!
I think the Dems essentially outed Inouye, one of their own, because he apparently is not a big supporter of cap-and-trade and wanted more publicity for an EPA report that is now saying that carbon emissions are not as responsible for climate change as now bellieved. I’ll find the reference to that and get back–again, they are no different, no less corruupt, and they are weeding out their own moderates, as hello says.
Correct Emma, they are targeting their moderates and I hope they keep it up. That strategy really backfired for Republicans which is why I find it odd they would be doing the same thing.
Current moderate Dem targets of MoveOn:
– A new 60-second radio ad released today targets Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) for her opposition to the public option that President Obama supports. – http://pol.moveon.org/landrieu_ad/?rc=homepage
– Spector on health care
– Kay Hagan on the public option
Hey, will people that came here illegally from that country now start returning, or will this just bring in more?
There has been a Joe Biden sighting… he made a public appearance yesterday to give a speech. Even though he is this administrations foreign relations expert he wasn’t there to talk about North Korea, Iran or Honduras.
He as there to “talk to rural folks about federal stimulus money that can be used to expand broadband access to the Internet for rural areas that typically have poor connections”.
“The room looked so sparse that about 30 or so chairs were removed by volunteers to give the illusion of a full house.”
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/blogs/fortyfourthestate/
What a joke, is Biden good for anything? I really disagree with many of Obama’s policies but please dear lord, do not let him get as much as a splinter. Can you imagine “President Biden”?
Apparently Biden’s job as “stimulus czar” trumps his supposed role as foreign policy advisor. President Biden would be a scary thought. No thanks – I hope Obama stays strong and healthy for as long as he is president! After that, I hope Biden fades into the sunset, although I don’t ever see him being a serious presidential contender – he’s now tried twice that I know of, and didn’t succeed.
Are you effin kidding me? The only thing the generations to come are going to be paying is the MASSIVE debt we’re racking up.
These Obama koolaid drinkers. “Modernized Economy” Govt. “creating” jobs. Cap and Trade. Govt. run health care. Sheesh.
The more I hear these tools, the more I want to puke. Our kids our going to be paying in spades for their ignorance.
Good MORNING Hi-jackers!!
2 weeks Hello? Interesting counter you have there. Let’s start with a distance lesson. Honduras is a lot closer to us than Iran. What happens in Honduras isn’t likely to stay in Honduras. Yea, sort of a North Ameerican problem.
Secondly, Iran was a protest. Remember the criticism Daddy Bush is still taking over leaving one faction of Iraqis hung out to dry? Remember him encouraging a revolt and then the USA did nothing and a bunch of folks were killed by Saddam?
That’s all we need. A cheerleading squad over here in the United States. Go Iranians Go. Encourage them to revolt, and THEN WHAT? a 3 front war while we go bail their butts out?
Obama did the right thing in both cases.
Mando, how about laying out an alternative plan. What would the unemployment rate look like if none of the stimulus packages done by Bush or Obama had happened? Then what?
From NYT:
Obviously the conservatives in the USA disagree with the Organization of American States. Iheard more criticism of the Obama stance last night than you can shake a stick at.
What is wrong with some of the conservatives? Since when is armed conflict an option to a government you do not like?
More from the same article:
I am truly horrified at those who would put cheer on this kind of behavior just for political reasons. That is akin to cheering massacres of American soldiers in Mosul because you don’t like George Bush.