This is a great op-ed from the Police Chief of Salt Lake City. I did not include the article in full, so I urge you to read it in its entirety. I believe Chief Burbank echoes the sentiments of Chief Deane. Given Moon-Howlers most recent thread topic, it seemed to fit the need to have law enforcement actually participate in what makes a community safe. Given the past history of PWC, Chief Deane was right to stand before the BOCS and warn of “unintended consequences” .
Police officers should not engage in civil immigration enforcement. However, local law enforcement should diligently continue to arrest serious criminal offenders and, as appropriate, refer dangerous criminals to federal authorities. Civil immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility, and it is paramount to the well-being of our neighborhoods that the federal government maintains accountability.
This is the central finding of a report from the Police Foundation, a research organization in Washington, D.C. focusing on law enforcement issues. Noting that police agencies throughout the country were increasingly being asked to assume immigration enforcement responsibilities, the foundation conducted a yearlong study to determine the appropriate balance between immigration enforcement, civil liberties and community safety.
I had the honor of participating in the national conference with more than 100 law enforcement peers and executives. While the debate was enthusiastic, several recurring themes emerged. The costs of participating in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s 287(g) program outweigh the benefits. Additionally, local police officers should be prohibited from arresting and detaining persons to investigate immigration status absent probable cause of an independent state criminal law violation.
After speaking with law enforcement officers and community leaders throughout the country, the Foundation concluded that local immigration enforcement damages the relationship between local police and communities; in fact, individuals are less likely to report crimes or participate as witnesses due to fear of Police enforcement.
We have already observed a chilling effect upon victims and witnesses as well as a polarization within neighborhoods regarding immigration legislation (Senate Bill 81) that went into effect on Wednesday. Often unrecognized in the debate is the significant adverse impact upon all individuals of color. How is a police officer to determine status without detaining and questioning anyone who speaks, looks or acts as if they might be from another nation?
For many years, Washington has failed to repair a broken immigration system, and local police officers have been irresponsibly designated to pick up the slack. By increasing our role in civil immigration action, state and local officers are placed in the untenable position of potentially engaging in unconstitutional racial profiling while attempting to maintain trust within the communities we protect.
Requiring police agencies to engage in civil immigration activities diverts critical resources away from our central responsibilities during a time of budget cuts and staffing shortages. The Salt Lake County Jail releases, on average, 900 criminal violators monthly due to overcrowding. Funding issues prohibit utilization of existing bed space and the facility cannot meet current demand. Detainees held for reasons of civil immigration status alone will necessitate the release of an even larger number of criminals into our neighborhoods.
Immigration issues instigate some of the most heated debate in the United States today. Unfortunately, this deliberation has yet to include the voice of law enforcement, whose job and mission are drastically impacted by immigration policy. As the Police Foundation report recommends, the federal government needs to pass comprehensive immigration reforms to truly fix the problem and relieve the burden on state and local police. They also need to involve the perspective of police in this upcoming debate.
Memorials and museums are erected in remembrance of those who died, but additionally, and most importantly, to ensure that we do not repeat the mistakes or misdoings of the past.
Chris Burbank is Salt Lake City’s police chief.
As is often the case, Chiefs of Police are politicians, who are looking out for their own interests, rather than professionals dedicated to helping American citizens.
Mr. Burbank, for some unknown reason, presents a false choice. This is not an either-or proposition. We needn’t resort to Gestapo tactics, such as stopping everyone on the street and asking for, “…their papers…” nor do we need to have police officers turn a blind eye to the illegal aliens roaming our communities.
Enforcing existing laws would have a tremendous impact on problems associated with the illegals; everything from vagrancy to zoning laws prohibiting multiple occupancy in single family neighborhoods. The tools are already there to protect the citizens without violating our civil liberties.
When I lived in San Diego, we had a terrible outbreak of TB and Hepatitis C, that was directly attributed to illegals. We also saw a tremendous rise in crime (including crime that was visited upon my own family) along the routes traveled by the aliens. Local law enforcement would be incompetent if they ignored the connection between illegal aliens, disease outbreaks and crime.
We can certainly treat those who have come here to work in a humane way, and the Obama Administration is moving in the right direction on that front, by providing a path to legalization that does not reward their illegal border crossing(s). However, we must also use every tool available to eliminate the crime and disease caused by these immigrants; arresting and deporting or jailing them here, as necessary.
J. Tyler,
From your first sentence, it is clear that you are woefully off-base when it comes to community policing, the prevailing approach to law enforcement, particularly in diverse communities such as Prince William County.
More to the point, Chiefs of Police are not elected. They are not politicians. Sherrif’s are elected.
The problems we run into come along when selfish politicians infringe upon law enforcement officials with cynical, unresearched, and ill-advised policies such as what occurred in Prince William County. The rest of your talking points are therefore even less probable, and smack all the more of ignorance and prejudice.
Thanks Elena, for including this post. It definitely fits in with the weekend theme of reducing crime.
None of us are saying that illegal immigrants are crime free. But looking around at some of our serious crimes committed in this county, illegal immigrants certain are not committing more crime than anyone else.
Chief Burbank does echo many of Chief Deane’s concerns with local law enforcement having to deal with illegal immigration in a round up capacity. Our chief was definitely caught in the crossfire over this very issue. Imagine professional law enforcement executives having the gall to assume they might just know more than local politians! [sarcasm button definitely activated!]
MH,
With all due respect, you forgot to mention the political wanna-be’s!
You are absolutely right, Lafayette. How could I have overlooked the political wannabes and media wannabes? They definitely have to be counted.
“crime and DISEASE”?
Bravo, M-H. It is astounding to me that anyone, even with a false moniker, would accuse the Police Chief in this situation of playing politics. This person should go back to watching re-runs of Lou Dobbs’ fictional leprosy comedy hour.
More speeches instead of action by beauracrats afraid to do their job.
YEAH!!!! Cops have brains (and so does Utah, BTW). And hello? I think they know a little more about Constitutional applications than a damn bureaucrat? We aren’t talking about politicians here. We are talking about people who work on the streets and know what the real deal is.
How many cops do you know want to deal with civil unrest? Hello, Obama? ARE YOU LISTENING???
If we respect our officers the way we claim to, then we damn well better respect their opinions and recommendations. If we believe in states’ rights, then we should recognize that bankrupting our states is stupid. Make the Federal government do their damn jobs. Don’t wimp out by saying, “boo hoo. They aren’t listening.” MAKE THEM LISTEN. We can only do this through UNIFYING.
Maybe the Federal government will finally listen to the people who know what the deal is instead of FAIR, HSM, GL, Duecaster and all those who don’t want a solution other than to meet their own agendas and feed their own hatred.
GOOD-BYE to YOU, those who want to wreak havoc on our communities. The cops know all about you.
@J. Tyler Ballance
“When I lived in San Diego, we had a terrible outbreak of TB and Hepatitis C, that was directly attributed to illegals.”
“Attributed” is the key word here. Who is “attributing” and where’s the PROOF?
Most lazy people do this at their jobs. It’s usually possible to claim that the tough problems are someone else’s responsibility, and define your job down towards something enomently manageable, and then sit around and peacefully eat donuts as Rome burns.
PAP, you’re onto something. Most of the illegal immigrants are screened for communicable dseases at those checkpoints set up in the desert and in those houses the coyotes use. In fact just recently for extra protection the coyotes have implemented a new policy where every time they rape a young girl they screen her for TB.
Oh Rick…
You should be happy there might be progress in this area, no matter who it comes from. And don’t forget, it IS the Fed’s responsibility. Don’t pay twice what you already paid for once.
Go enjoy the good weather, will you? 🙂
I am glad others picked up on it as well. This persistent need to associate certain ethnic groups with “crime and disease” is a chilling reminder of the most heinous, despicable, and inhuman chapters in world history. Thank God the demagogues and snake oil salesman who sell such bigotry are currently in ill-repute. Here’s hoping they stay that way. As for the sippers of the snake oil, I have little to say to you other than “shame on you.”
“It’s not my job”….the motto of the man to be admired!
Mr. Balllance, you are welcome to join this conversation. Doesn’t hurt to do a bit of homework first, but if all you have is a hateful misinformation campagin, we called that “Hate Bunny” droppings. Nice Confederate website by the way. Hope you decide to drop in again and explain your prejudice, foolishness and gullibility. Doubt anyone else will defend you.
As long as we allow the liberal elite to hold the race card over our heads every time we try to deal with the illegal immigration issue, we will continue to be hamstrung into inaction out of fear of “profiling.” Yet I’m pretty sure most of us would have a problem if hordes of blue-eyed blondes were jumping the border and demanding “free” services that the rest of us foot the bill for.
As far as Chief Deane, I would want a police chief who did his job, not one who took sides in an intensely political debate. Don’t like the job as described? How about retiring?
“Demanding free services”. LOL. Way to keep up the rhetoric. What about the “illegals” like my husband…and there are millions, that have never used a dime of free services and in fact have started businesses in this country, have purchased multiple vehicles (my SO just got a new $48K truck a couple of weeks ago…don’t think that the salesman or dealer cared about his legal status as long as he had the money and credit to buy it), patronize Home Depot and local paint stores every day of the week, are insured, and the list goes on. What about those “illegals”?
Oh, and I forgot to add disease free and no criminal record! I’m so sick of the scare tactics that “illegals” carry disease and are all a bunch of criminals.
“Liberal elite” is a conservative buzz word that has no real meaning. If we don’t agree on how to handle illegal immigration do I get to be both liberal and elite? Does money come with that?
Chief Deane did not take sides during the political debate. He, like all good professionals, gave his opinion based on years of law enforcement. I wouldn’t let the hatchet job done by BVBL sway my opinion on that score because it is just dead wrong.
Chief Deane followed the directives handed down by the BOCS. Surely we wouldn’t want a yes man who ran around just doing what ever he was told to do without any input? Why bother to keep and maintain professional law enforcement folks at the county level? Just drag someone out of the police academy and let them be boss. Still better, go find that dude in the sheriff’s office who was looking at kiddie porn on county time and county equipment.
Finally, we don’t know how Chief Deane really felt, now do we? He gave his professional opinion and he saluted the directive of the job. Can we ask for more?
Twin, you are right as usual. Emma is off her rocker as usual. Immigrants both legal and illegal do not use public services. The propagandists have Emma’s panties bunching using bogus statistics that are based on the number of students in public schools with foreign sounding names. They don’t know the legal status of any of these kids, many of whom were born in the United States which makes them (dun-dun-duhhh) citizens. But they add up these costs anyway just based on the surnames and bunch those panties. Have you ever seen a man with bunched up panties. It’s even more disturbing.
Anyway, these propaganda points also cleverly leave out the fact that children who are educated get jobs and contribute tax revenue and grow our economy. Children who are not educated get into trouble. So if any of these clones really thought about it, the panties could be unpacked from their you know where’s.
I should have said immigrants both legal and illegal tend not to use public services. This is because they don’t know about them usually. Or they are reluctant to use them because they come from countries where they fear their governments. Or they are illegal and don’t want to cross paths with government institutions.
And Emma, the truth is if there are a lot of immigrants who are blond and blue eyed (and there are), we aren’t noticing it because they look like Americans are stereotypically supposed to look. There would not be enough anger, hate, or hysteria to create a political issue for electioneering purposes. Thus, we would not be talking about it.
Right. So the people lining up to give birth at PWH and pull out empty wallets with no id and no way to pay are not asking for services? Sorry, Shelly, but I’m out in the trenches seeing this stuff every day. Are you?
Shelly and Twinad, it seems the take-home from you both is always that there really isn’t any problem at all with illegal immigration. Shall we just open all borders, then, and foot the bills? Sorry, but only in fantasyland do the bills not exist.
M-H said:
Amen.
There are very few people in the county who prefer “Corey Stewart + Greg Letiecq” to “Chief Deane + steadfast leadership, professionalism, and integrity.” Whoever it is that comes down on the Stewart + Letiecq side, they are completely obsessed with this blog for some reasons, and feel it is their duty to post here. This makes for some interesting debates on the blog, which is nice to have, but by no means does it mean there is, or ever was, a public debate over the question of who has the county’s trust and who has the county’s respect.
Emma, since you are in the trenches, how do you know when you see an undocumented person enter the trenches? Isn’t it true, since you brought it up, that when an undocumented person with blond hair and blue eyes walks into the trenches, you think nothing of it? And isn’t it true that when a person with darker hair and darker skin enters the trenches, you keep score on an entirely speculative scorecard? That’s why you never can get very far with any of these arguments.
Well, I would imagine that if said person had absolutely no way to prove their identity, the same would be true. When have you ever used hospital services and NOT been asked for ID? I’d wager never.
“said person” meaning the blond and blue eyed. Everyone is asked for ID, not just the dark-skinned.
My point is that not every “illegal” costs the country money, and in many cases, they make a lot of money, create jobs and purchase large tickets items like cars, tv’s etc. As I’ve said, I believe, ad nauseum on this blog, I literally “know”, more than 100 people that either still are here illegally or were illegal at one time, and I cannot name a single one that has required any tax payer paid services.
Take a look at Prince William Hospital’s Annual Report and the amount of charity care they dole out.. There is no “writeoff” going on there-the insured are paying the costs of the uninsured, which continues to drive up the costs of insurance. And persons without documentation are by far the largest recipients of this “free” care. The truth hurts, I know .
My point also is that every case should be evaluated…not just “deport’em all!”. If my husband were to be deported, and it would solely be based on his being here without legal status, as he has no criminal history, the US is shooting themselves in the foot.
He runs a successful service business that provides needed services to the community…he’s deported, that business and the tax revenue that comes with it is gone. He gets deported and that nice new truck he just bought will be repossessed…I certainly can’t afford to pay for it if there is no business generating revenue for it to be paid for…so there goes a perfectly good loan into the toilet and the bank will lose.
Aside from these obvious revenue related problems, what about a now two parent stable household suddenly thrown into upheaval? I make enough for my son and I to live well above the poverty level on my own, but the love of two parents is more important than the fact that I can afford to pay for everything he needs if I was on my own. I’m sorry, but I feel THIS represents “family values”.
Clearly, some who have posted here have never lived in a border community, nor have they had the experience of being told to keep children home due to another outbreak of TB or Hep C, brought on by an influx of illegals into the community. Health reports from San Diego County, testimony from physicians and nurses who serve in those border community hospitals and law enforcement personnel from the region all provide attribution to the illegals for increases in crime and disease.
It is not an act of bigotry to state the facts, especially when describing the incidence of disease and crime. By identifying the likely carrier population, or in the case of some diseases, the population that is more susceptible to a disease, then we can more effectively treat the disease and help contain it.
It does no good to blame the illegals for bringing a particular disease with them. Nobody carries diseases intentionally. The most ethical response and the effective path of treatment, is to focus treatment regimens on the host population. This same course would apply to Asians with, for example, swine flu, or Germans carrying a strain of Measles.
Many who posted here are, I am certain, well intentioned when they offer anecdotes of illegals whom they know who are neither criminals nor carriers of any apparent disease. It is laudable to refrain from prejudice towards any group, and I support that idea as a core value. However, what I urge everyone to do is examine the crime and epidemiological statistics from the areas where there is a high volume of illegals. It is not anecdotal or prejudicial to clearly see the truth. The truth is that there is a much higher incidence of disease and crime associated with the illegals. In regions, such as San Diego, the illegals are a tremendous drain on health and law enforcement. Again, this is not anecdotal information, but the actual reported information from border communities.
These facts do not justify prejudicial treatment of someone because of their origin, or ethnicity. However, we as a society need to focus resources according to the facts that are presented to us, and not fail to act in a prudent, expedient manner.
Finally, with regard to police chiefs being politicians. The nuance of that point escaped some readers. For anyone to rise to the top of a police organization, or similar bureaucracy, one needs to be an effective, some would even say highly skilled, politician. All politicians are not elected officials. Police Chiefs get to where they are, especially in today’s highly charged climate of “political correctness” by parroting only what their minders deem to be within the bounds of words and thought that are considered “politic” for the times.
We can effectively deal with illegal alien issues of crime and disease by enforcing existing laws. We needn’t surrender any of our civil liberties to address this, or any other threat to our health and security. Having law enforcement tell us that they are too busy to deal with illegal aliens is a monumental act of negligence and incompetence.
And what is the difference between what the hospital charges “the uninsured” and “the insured”? Is it not significantly greater?! Why is that?! I don’t think anyone, documented or not, can pay the outrageous amounts that are billed to the uninsured. It’s a joke. Why not bill the uninsured reasonable fees? If they do that, maybe there will be a shot in hell that the charges could be paid. Also, these outrageous billings just drive up the cost of what is recorded as “charity”. Is it not true that if the uninsured were billed the amount that the insured are billed that the amount of “charity” doled out a PWC would be about 2/3’s to 3/4’s less than is getting recorded?
Twinad, of course there are undocumented people out ther who work hard and pretty much stay under the radar. That suggests to me they assimilate nicely and are probably good neighbors. But to deny that very many others do not create a burden is just not grounded in reality.
How many people drive to the ER without their license, wallet or anything else? I know I have! If it’s an emergency, we often just want to jump in the car and get to the hospital. But I suppose if one is darker skinned, it is easier to just call them illegal instead of assuming there’s an emergency.
I had to go to the ER at PWH a few years ago after my brother in law blew out his back at work. He had ID and he was still treated as suspect as far as I could see. His injury was covered under WC, but you could just see in the faces of the nurses and other staff members that they were under the assumption that this was “another one” that they weren’t going to get paid for. It sure turned me off.
Twinad, it is illegal to charge two people different amounts for the same service provided. A hospital or doctor’s office cannot charge different fees for the same service. The State regulators of medical facilities and Doctors forbids such a practice. I called a manager of a large OB/GYN practice to ask such a question and the reply was that they would be fined at the first founded complaint and closed shortly after that if such practices persisted. So we all have to be billed the same, whether billed or not.
Sorry…I meant whether insured or not…
So do you assume that those who show up with empty pockets just “forgot” and will settle their bill once they go home? The fact is they won’t pay, we will.
And nurses in the ER aren’t the ones asking for ID’s. Twinad, so they wouldn’t know if someone could pay or not. Perhaps you are looking for racism where it does ‘t exist.
Lucky Duck,
It’s my bad for how I worded my post. You are right of course…the insurance companies and uninsured are BILLED the same amount, but I’m referring to the delta between what is billed and what is actually expected to be paid. The insurance companies don’t pay the amount billed…it is usually in the neighborhood of half of the billed amount or less. Then it is up to the insured to pay the difference up to their deductible…so if someone gets billed $1,000…insurance will cover say $450, then there is $550 left to be either paid by the insured or I guess you could say “waived” if the deductible has already been met. Is this not accurate? If not, then I apologize, but this is my understanding of how the system works.
I don’t know about the rest of you all but I resent paying for anyone else’s health care or ER trips. I don’t care if it is an immigrant or a born and bred American. That is the reason people are beating their brains in to come up with a comprehensive health care package. Yes, it scares me, but somewhere, something has to be done.
I pay out of pocket for the first time in my life. Let’s put it this way, it is more expensive per month than any car payment I have ever had. Each year the payments get higher and the services get fewer
It isn’t just illegal immigrants who milk the system. It is people of all races and ethnicities. That includes white folks too.
Tyler, our police chief is one of the least political people I know. Perhaps you are thinking of the sheriff who does have to be elected. That is one reason PWC went with a seperate police dept–to cut down on the politics. Our police never said they were too busy to deal with illegal immigrants.
What about the “illegals” like my husband…and there are millions, that have never used a dime of free services and in fact have started businesses in this country, have purchased multiple vehicles (my SO just got a new $48K truck a couple of weeks ago…don’t think that the salesman or dealer cared about his legal status as long as he had the money and credit to buy it), patronize Home Depot and local paint stores every day of the week, are insured, and the list goes on. What about those “illegals”?
They should be deported. Imediately. If your husband is illegal, I hope he is deported. If you give me his name, I will report it to INS.
I mean ICE.
Your husband is illegal? And you’re bragging about how much wealth he has?
Rick, Twinad and her husband have attempted to correct his status. The rules have changed since the 90’s. I believe that they missed the deadline by about 2 weeks.
Why would our government not give Twinad’s husband legal status? Do you really trust your govt to do the right thing? It seems immoral to separate a family when none of the family members have done anything wrong.
Rick,
We tried to adjust his status 6 years ago. He was deemed not eligible. ICE could have taken him upstairs that same day and taken him away, but they did not. We have lived in the same house with the same phone number since he was denied a green card. They could, conceivably, come any time to get him. They won’t. They are not interested in deporting someone like him. They have bigger fish to fry. Sorry to disappoint you. And I am not “bragging” about his wealth. He/we are not wealthy, we are definitely on the upper echelon of income in PWC, but definitely NOT Northern Va. And he has money and good credit because of how hard he has worked since he got here 11 years ago. If all native born Americans had half as much initiative and drive as he does, this would be a better world, that is for sure.
I will vouch for what Twinad says. I know her husband. If he says he will be there, he is there. He stand by his work. He is easy to find.
Rick, you are one of the most libertarian people I know. Do you always trust your government to do the right thing? You always bitch and carry on about politicians, mainly how stupid and corrupt they are. Does this quality not trickle down to govt employees who are making the decisions? We are not talking about bending the constitution here. We are talking about a couple weeks making the difference in legal or illegal status. Twinad is a natural born US citizen. Why can’t her husband have his status adjusted? They have been married for a number of years. Additonally, Twinad wasn’t bragging that she was wealthy. Her point was that she and her husband earn their own money and pay their own way. They are not on the dole or on the take.
It is at this point where I begin to see legal vs illegal as simply an abstraction and a battle cry.
Rick,
Ever heard the saying “there but for the grace of G-d go I” ? If Twinad, her hard working husband, and child, were sitting across from you, in a small room, just you all having a private conversation, would you actually say:
“They should be deported. Imediately. If your husband is illegal, I hope he is deported. If you give me his name, I will report it to INS.”
Health care cost rising are rising, not just because so many people are without healthcare, over 50 million, but because we have a broken health care system.
When I was uninsured and recovering from a kidney stone, I went to see a specialist. I explained that I had no insurance. I had worked in a doctors office for two years so I understood the coding practice. They charged me the highest possible visit. It wasn’t illegal, but it sure seemed unethical.
As far as maternity care goes in this country, it is an outrage. C-sections are at an epidemic level, not because suddenly womens bodies don’t work, but because it is based on a model of chaos and impending doom. The World Health Organizations recommends that a c-section rate should not rise about 10%, the U.S. is 30%. I had to fight to have a home-birth (second birth), a total cost of 2,300.00 dollars for the best care I ever recieved. If I had delivered with a doctor, it would have been a minimum of 5,000 and if I had undergone a repeat c-section, it would have been a miniumum of 10,000. Where there is the BEST maternal and neonatal outcome, they have midwives as the main birth practioners and OB-GYN’s as the high risk back up. Not only is the outcome for mom and baby better, but ALOT less expensive. I believe the United States ranks 28 in maternal mortality of industrialized nations.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/80743.php