This is a great op-ed from the Police Chief of Salt Lake City. I did not include the article in full, so I urge you to read it in its entirety. I believe Chief Burbank echoes the sentiments of Chief Deane. Given Moon-Howlers most recent thread topic, it seemed to fit the need to have law enforcement actually participate in what makes a community safe. Given the past history of PWC, Chief Deane was right to stand before the BOCS and warn of “unintended consequences” .
Police officers should not engage in civil immigration enforcement. However, local law enforcement should diligently continue to arrest serious criminal offenders and, as appropriate, refer dangerous criminals to federal authorities. Civil immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility, and it is paramount to the well-being of our neighborhoods that the federal government maintains accountability.
This is the central finding of a report from the Police Foundation, a research organization in Washington, D.C. focusing on law enforcement issues. Noting that police agencies throughout the country were increasingly being asked to assume immigration enforcement responsibilities, the foundation conducted a yearlong study to determine the appropriate balance between immigration enforcement, civil liberties and community safety.
I had the honor of participating in the national conference with more than 100 law enforcement peers and executives. While the debate was enthusiastic, several recurring themes emerged. The costs of participating in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s 287(g) program outweigh the benefits. Additionally, local police officers should be prohibited from arresting and detaining persons to investigate immigration status absent probable cause of an independent state criminal law violation.
After speaking with law enforcement officers and community leaders throughout the country, the Foundation concluded that local immigration enforcement damages the relationship between local police and communities; in fact, individuals are less likely to report crimes or participate as witnesses due to fear of Police enforcement.
We have already observed a chilling effect upon victims and witnesses as well as a polarization within neighborhoods regarding immigration legislation (Senate Bill 81) that went into effect on Wednesday. Often unrecognized in the debate is the significant adverse impact upon all individuals of color. How is a police officer to determine status without detaining and questioning anyone who speaks, looks or acts as if they might be from another nation?
For many years, Washington has failed to repair a broken immigration system, and local police officers have been irresponsibly designated to pick up the slack. By increasing our role in civil immigration action, state and local officers are placed in the untenable position of potentially engaging in unconstitutional racial profiling while attempting to maintain trust within the communities we protect.
Requiring police agencies to engage in civil immigration activities diverts critical resources away from our central responsibilities during a time of budget cuts and staffing shortages. The Salt Lake County Jail releases, on average, 900 criminal violators monthly due to overcrowding. Funding issues prohibit utilization of existing bed space and the facility cannot meet current demand. Detainees held for reasons of civil immigration status alone will necessitate the release of an even larger number of criminals into our neighborhoods.
Immigration issues instigate some of the most heated debate in the United States today. Unfortunately, this deliberation has yet to include the voice of law enforcement, whose job and mission are drastically impacted by immigration policy. As the Police Foundation report recommends, the federal government needs to pass comprehensive immigration reforms to truly fix the problem and relieve the burden on state and local police. They also need to involve the perspective of police in this upcoming debate.
Memorials and museums are erected in remembrance of those who died, but additionally, and most importantly, to ensure that we do not repeat the mistakes or misdoings of the past.
Chris Burbank is Salt Lake City’s police chief.
Tyler,
Your tactics have been used tirelessly throughout history to demonize one group of people. The targets may change, but the boring old propoganda message remains consistent. The Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Poles, etc etc etc etc, all brought disease, all were ignorant, undeducated, did not speak the langauge correctly, and would contribute nothing the U.S., blah blah, blah.
Furthermor, we are not idiots, no one missed the “nuance” of your point. There are always office politics no matter what your job is, that is simply common sense. However, Chief Deane is NOT an elected offical and what he did flew in the face of going along to get along in PWC politics. He had viturally no support. You are simply uninformed to what happend in Prince William County if you believe he was compelled by “political correctness” to face the wrath of Greg and his ilk, you are very naive indeed.
Oh, brother. The sainted illegal immigrants. So much more motivated and hardworking than the majority racist, nativist white Americans.
Emma, Twinad is speaking of one person, her husband. She is not saying that all illegal immigrants are saintly or that they are more motivated and hard working than Americans.
She said that America would be better off if ALL native born Americans had half the initative and drive her husband does.
As we all know, not ALL Americans have drive and ambition.
Tyler, you just got spanked and you deserved it. That’s what happens when you start spouting the usual anti-immigrant drivel without knowing who you’re talking to, or what they have been through. The only people around here who went after Chief Deane are laughing stocks now. I guess you just joined them by remote.
Emma, immigrants DO work harder and contribute more to society than the average American. But you are wrong to say the majority of Americans are racist, nativist, and white. The majority is white, but only a small percentage are racist and nativist. I’d say it’s down to about 10% now, and going down more and more all the time. It’s better to have a lot of immigrants and just let the 10% minority who is racist deal with it, hopefully without resorting to violence.
Chiefs Burbank and Deane are just doing what good commanders in the military do when they sense mission creep. They complain about the impacts and the lack of funding to do their primary missions. You would be amazed to see and hear how heroic combat commanders whine to their bosses about mission creep in order to get more manpower, more equipment, more funding, whatever. Many of the complaints from these chiefs would likely go away if adequate funding/prison space came along with these mandates.
I also do not necessarily buy the argument about unreported crime among the documented community. Many of these people are among the fiercest critics of illegal immigration and my guess is that they would not hesitate to report crime. The “undocumented” community may be a different story.
I also find it hard to believe that the “documented” community members are living in fear of the police. I’m just not seeing that as they seem to be going about their daily lives among the rest of us, and why shouldn’t they? They’re not breaking our laws.
As far as the undocumented, it hardly seems that Twinad’s husband is sitting home quaking in fear. To the contrary, her family seems to be flaunting their wealth and is apparently very public about his status, judging from what is said here. I can’t believe that our police forces are supposed to turn a blind eye to lawbreaking so that they can develop a cadre of illegal-immigrant informants. Or are we becoming Chicago?
And Justin, allow me to correct YOU: I am referring to illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants. You’re deliberately confusing the issue.
The points about crime and disease among illegal aliens require a more careful discussion. I do not claim that illegal aliens are more disease-prone or criminally active (although, by definition, their presence breaks the law) than American citizens. But when people cross the border illegally, they are not screened for infectious disease. This allows disease to be transmitted into the United States at a higher rate than would normally be expected if border controls were not bypassed. The same goes for crime.
It is true that Chief Deane had no political support in PWC, but he was much praised outside the county. Since he held discussions with the Mexican embassy, I have been paying close attention to his political machinations. His “political correctness” makes him an attractive candidate for police chief in larger metropolitan departments. I suspect that he is playing to a the crowd outside of PWC.
“kelly”,
Anyone who stood up against Greg and Corey felt the wrath. You were villified on-line, you name and information could be posted as an intimidation tactic. Regular people were afraid to speak out. Who exactlly praised him outside this county? Where are your facts. I sure don’t remember it!
Moon-howler, I think Twinad’s intention was very clear. She is repeatedly trotted out as the litmus test for racial profiling here, and it comes across as some kind of taunt: MY husband is illegal, WE can afford expensive cars and healthcare and WE’RE not a burden; ALL of OUR friends are hardworking, so therefore ALL illegal immigrants are good for society, and how DARE you have a problem with it.
And are we saying here that the large numbers of Americans who are jobless now got that way because they’re just lazier than illegal immigrants?
Kelly3406, You should learn more of what you speak about. Where to even begin with your unsupported assertions?
First:
Chief Deane did not “hold discussions with the Mexican embassy”. He was invited to speak, along with a representative of the Mexican embassy, to a group of local Hispanics in an effort to explain the pending resolution. Quite a difference from what you claimed took place.
Second:
Chief Deane is in his mid sixties and has worked for the PWCPD for 39 years and he has been Chief of Prince William Police for 21 years. If he was preparing for his “next career”, he could have left years ago. Who prepares for their “second career” at almost 70 years of age??
Third: The Chief had political support in PWC. Perhaps not as much from the BOCS during this debate, but ask BOCS members how their phone calls and contacts from constitutents went in favor of the Chief. Remember, the Chief serves at the pleasure of the BOCS. If he was so unpopular and a political outcast, why is he still here? Why didn’t the BOCS just terminate him if he had no support?
Make sure your facts are straight before you push that BS on the rest of us.
Meeting with the Mexican embassy was completely outside of Deane’s purview. Since when do we allow foreign interests to dictate to us how we should conduct our law enforcement? Deane stepped way out of bounds there. If he just done his job, he would have been vilified on every page here.
Emma, the Chief did NOT meet with the Mexican embassy. He was invited by the local Hispanic community to attend a public meeting to explain what the police response was to the pending resolution. Outreach that was approved by the BOCS. A representative of the Mexican Government was also invited by the local Hispanic community.
The Chief did not ask for nor plan any meeting with any representative of the Mexican government. He was merely invited to a meeting in which the Mexican representative was also invited.
Huge difference in what you and Kelly are claiming. Get the facts straight.
By the way Emma, it was at this same meeting in which the Chief explained, much to the dismay of the crowd, that the resolution would be enforced as it was written. I also believe a representative of HSM was in attendance (I think her name was Maureen?) and her writing of the meeting on the other site supported that the Chief explained how the resolution would be enforced.
“Elena”,
Chief Deane has been made out to be a virtual rock star after being praised by the likes of John Grisham and made to look like a hero by 9500 Liberty. Please see http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/immigration_movie_screened_to_raise_funds/36189/
Twinad, just curious. You said you tried 6 years ago but he was deemed ineligible. What was the cause of the ineligibility?
Lucky Duck,
I will admit that my memory confused the Mexican embassy with the Mexican consulate. According to the Washington Post, a meeting was jointly hosted by the police and the Mexican consulate. Chief Deane and Mexican consul Enrique Escorza sat together and answered questions at the meeting. It was NOT approved in advance by the BOCS and it created quite a dust-up:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/28/AR2008032803474.html
Although I mixed up embassy and consulate, I believe that it is YOU that needs to get his facts straight.
Lucky Duck, thanks for providing more facts.
It appears that Kelly and Emma are just proving that they are good red circle members and that they drank the required amount of kool aid before being allowed over in the anti yard.
I would hope Chief Deane would talk with those who are a liaison to the Hispanic community, both legal and illegal.
Thank you for your clarifications Lucky Duck!
No Kelly3406…you’re incorrect. When the resolution was approved, the Chief stated to the BOCS that he would have to have outreach programs to various segments of the community in order to explain what the resolution meant and what the consequences, legally, would be.
This was one of a number of outreach meetings – I think there were 24 of them total – and none of those were specifically “approved” by the BOCS but they were made aware that such outreach would take place.
Just because Cory “I love the spotlight” Stewart saw and opportunity to grab headlines doesn’t mean the BOCS were not told that outreach programs would take place. He’s lied before for political advantage.
The police did not invite the consulate, the embassy or anyne else from Mexico, the police were invited guests themselves. If the host decided to invite others, that is on them.
This has be hashed and rehashed long before you came on this blog. The fact that you and others still bring it up shows how circular your logic is.
I looked on-line for evidence of similar meetings that Chief Deane surely must have had with consulates from India, Canada, Guatamala, El Salvador, Haiti. ShellyB and Elena constantly make the point that legal and illegal immigrants come from countries other than just Mexico. If it was so important to meet with liaisons from foreign communities, why didn’t he meet with other consulates? How could he have neglected to consider the diversity of the immigrant population?
Kelly, did you even read Lucky Duck’s latest post? Cheif Deane didn’t arrange the guests or the attendees at this meeting. He simply accepted the invitation.
Greg Letiecq and Corey Stewart instructed you to be hysterical about one particular meeting. Did you wonder at the time why you are the only two women in the county who followed orders, even though at the time HSM still had a healthy membership. Did you wonder at the time why that membership suddenly dropped when you and a handful of other Greg Groupies went before the BOCS and accused the most revered man in this county of treason? They were mortified. They were humiliated by Greg and Corey’s vengeful audacity and by your stupidity.
I’m sure the Police Department has other priorities than to try to explain what “probable cause” means over and over again in two dozen meetings. But it was written in the Resolution that they would have to try to do so in order to avoid widespread confusion (not sure he succeeded, but thank goodness the BOCS repealed the law after only 2 months in implementation).
But imagine how this must have affected the Police Department, which does have duties beyond patching over the socially disastrous fallout from Corey Stewart’s political aspirations and Greg Letiecq’s hateful lunacy. The Police Department is also also had try to keep our community safe at the same time. So it is ludicrous to expect that Chief Deane would seek out meetings that included representatives from every foreign government that has citizens in this country.
That last post was also addressed to Greg Letiecq’s other groupie, Emma.
You need to back up your statement, Lucky Duck. I included a link to an article (above) that states why I believe that the meeting was jointly hosted by the PWC police and the Mexican consulate. If this is incorrect, then you need to provide some proof that I can access.
Wow, Moon-howler, really? What a knee-jerk thing for you to say after some of the debates we have had and some of the common ground we (seemed) to have shared.
To be more accurate, Emma and Kelly are not the only Greg Hag groupies in PWC. There are two others that I count. Four women in this county of 400,000 are willing to slurp up any loose stool Gospel Greg leaks out, with a straw, no matter how preposterous. Statistically speaking, if you include Greg himself and The Duecaster, we’ve got .001 percent of the county standing against 99.999 percent of the county when it comes to this “Chief Deane, traitor or hero?” question.
As Lucky Duck pointed out, if the rest of the county lived in a world as warped and hateful as the Greg Hags’, why is Charlie Deane still our police chief? Why was the Resolution neutered?
And didn’t those two events take place within a few weeks of each other? That tells me this “treason” attack from Stewart and Letiecq was a last ditch effort to keep the neutering of their Resolution from happening. They convinced Kelly, Emma, and 2 other Greg Hags to believe their lies, and that’s it. Game over. Just admit it and stop pissing me off with these Chief Deane attacks.
More Kool Aid, Kelly?
You all had a good cover for a while. You all have outted yourselves. Witness Too has zeroed in.
No one anywhere, except in the Order of the Red Circle, would question the police department meeting with various ethnic communities in order to have safer communities. What is done in larger cities with various ethnic groups?
Vilifying Chief Deane is a failed attempt to dishonor an honorable man who has a distinguished service record. News flash: That failed attempt lost the Order of the Red Circle a great deal of credibility.
Since we are rehashing, isn’t that where Corey got caught releasing the email responses of some of the other BOCS members to a certain blog keeper? That was definitely the fastest FOIA I have ever seen.
JustinT,
That was disgusting even in Mexico!
No, Witness, YOU need to get YOUR facts straight. You keep making things up, like claiming Congress made warrantless wiretapping retroactively legal by now requiring a warrant. Sorry, but LMAO at that whopper.
From the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/28/AR2008032803474.html
Note the words “he has organized.” Deane worked in tandem with the Escorza, the Mexican consul, to hold this meeting. He wasn’t simply invited and went along just to be nice. And I do think that public officials who have significant contact with foreign nationals should be scrutinized closely.
And, by the way, this article was co-written by Kristen Mack, probably the most illegal-immigrant friendly writer the Post has.
Justin T, barffff! PUH-LEEEZ.
SA, what does Mexico have to do with what Justin T said.
Funny, I know an awful lot of people out in the community who have a problem with the Chief meeting exclusively with Mexican nationals. Why should he have to explain himself to a group of illegal immigrants and their diplomatic representatives in the first place? The meeting should have been raided by ICE. THAT would have been a productive use of taxpayer-paid time.
Emma, what is your point? Pardon me, but so what! If we have a large population here from Mexico, El Salvadore, or any country, doesn’t it make sense to have some sort of liaison, especially if the rules are changing. What would you have him do, say figure it out for yourselves?
Furthermore, I think you would probably be one of the first people out there advising the rest of us to not believe everything we read in MSM. Are we fixating on the word ‘organized?’ That covers a lot of turf. Maybe he set the agenda. Does that count as organizing?
I would not have cared if he called up the consular and said there’s a new sheriff in town. Have all your people at Ho Hos in Feb 17 @ 8 pm so I can tell them what’s what. Who freaking cares! The only people who care are those in the Red Circle or the peripheral of the Red Circle and that is to oust Chief Deane. This is all very transparent.
He did not jump when the master said how hi, therefore the chief must go. Just more bullying tactics. However, it didn’t work.
“Meeting exclusively with Mexican Nationals” Now what exactly does that mean?
Maybe those same people who object think they can do Chief Deane’s job better than he can? Probably the same set of people who drank the Red Circle kool aid.
The world is full of ignoramuses. Probably the same group who thought the moon landing was a hoax by NBC.
Emma, why do you get angry with me? About the warrant-less wiretapping? What I wrote was the prevailing wisdom on the issue, agreed upon by people on both sides of the aisle. After the 2008 law, which Obama voted for as a Senator, the program is no longer illegal and that’s why we still have it. It was illegal prior to that. No one argues against this. I just wanted you to have your facts straight.
And as for taking something from a year-old newspaper and claiming it as fact, well, newspapers are only the first draft of history. Articles are written hastily, and any time Corey Stewart is a source, they are written with lies and subterfuge often finding their way into print. It’s quite clear that Lucky Duck knows a great deal about county government and the PWC police department. It’s quite clear that everything you and Kelly say comes directly from Greg Letiecq. Greg Letiecq has been completely discredited, many times over. I don’t know if you think you are helping to support him and Chairman Stewart by repeating their lies. I would suggest that you consider whether it might be hurting them, or at least hurting Chairman Stewart.
I think it hurts him because to quote that great diva, Celine Dion, it’s all coming back to me now. There was great distortion of the truth by the Red Circle Brigade. Emails were leaked for political purposes.
The good thing is that the supervisors and the rest of the county really saw what was going on. We witnessed several ‘leaders’ shoot themselves in the foot for sure.
Maybe Emma and Kelly are actually counter operatives and are trying to recreate the embarrassment of the Red Circle Jerks.
I feel the need for more cartoons!! Oh great cartoonist…where art thou?
Witness, to reiterate, a COURT upheld warrantless wiretapping, not Congress, not Obama, based on a complaint by a telecommunications company. You hurt your own credibility when you keep fabricating lies .
The Chief Deane lovefest here is nauseating . Time to retire, Sir.
Emma, you make me laugh. Thanks. The only reason I “trotted” out any of my comments on this thread was in response to your ridiculous assertion that all the illegals are here “demanding free services”.
I mean really, what percentage of the PWC population even utilizes PWH on an annual basis? Is it even 5%? Even if it is as high as 5%, which I doubt, then it would make sense that only an average of 5% of immigrants, legal or illegal, utilize the services. You are all upset that I “live in the trenches” and don’t see abuse of services, meanwhile you are on the front lines of a service provider and are shocked and appalled that some percentage of the population uses them? What about the 95% of the population (or more) that is not? You “trot” out your nonsense that they are “all” robbing us blind by obtaining free services! I’m sorry, but I feel it necessary to “fight back” with the ammunition I have, that is backed up by the many people I know that DON’T and never have used ANY KIND of “free services” that you say are “demanded”.
Ordinary Joe,
He isn’t eligible because we applied for residency for him in the spring of 2002. We got married in December of 2001. As of the end of April, 2001, a law changed that did not allow any illegal alien to adjust their status (via marriage or work or any other method of sponsorship that I know of) if paperwork wasn’t already in the works prior to April 31, 2001. Obviously, we weren’t married in April of 2001, and I couldn’t sponsor him until we were married. We also didn’t have the about $2K we needed to apply right away, so it was delayed until we had the money…not that it mattered since the deadline was 7 or 8 months prior to our marriage anyway. Since he came over the border unchecked, and missed that date he is not eligible. If he had overstayed a visa, he would be allowed to adjust his status, but since he never had status to begin with, he is not eligible until a law changes to address this situation. And believe me, there are a lot of families in the same situation.
I supported (and still support) changing the PWC immigration law to get rid of probable cause as an excuse to investigate legal status. But that does not mean that the motivations of Saint Deane cannot be questioned.
I shared my evidence from a Washington Post article that Deane organized a meeting with the Mexican consul. It takes VERY LITTLE to convince me that the MSM got it wrong. But it does take more than a statement from a guy with the alias “Lucky Duck”.
Now is the time to put up or shut up. I stand ready to be convinced. If Chief Deane was simply invited to this meeting, then there should be a record somewhere. Show me some public evidence that I can access.
Otherwise, I have to question who the real kool-aid drinkers are.
Lucky Duck has not logged back on. Now where would that kind of evidence come from that you would accept, Kelly?
What I still want to know is why it would matter who initiated and organized the meeting if the purpose was to inform the Latino community of the change in policy in Prince William County? Chief Deane was given the responsibility of informing the community. He had many meetings with various groups of individuals to impart facts. If I am not mistaken, he met with HSM. Did we accuse him of cavorting or fraternizing with the enemy in that meeting?
kelly, I am glad we have some common ground at least. I am against probably cause as an excuse to investigate status. I also do support the 287 (g) program (at this point in time) How do you feel about that?
Private Citizen Hilda Barg gives Corey and other board members a serious spanking. Check out the smirking faces about 1:35 minutes into the video.
Ms. Barg sums up the insulting way our police chief was treated.
Love fest? How about just treating a public servants fairly and politely?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bqFM_E9-zI
Video showing Chief Deane saluting the policy. There are comments from a representative from ICE and also from the ADC superintendent Pete Melitis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbvLH1n8YlM
Now, where did I say that, Twinad?
Yet I’m pretty sure most of us would have a problem if hordes of blue-eyed blondes were jumping the border and demanding “free” services that the rest of us foot the bill for.
Here you go…in other words, you are saying “hordes are jumping the border and demanding “free” services”. I’m saying that yes, there are some people that will work any system, but to say that the “hordes” are jumping the fence to demand free services is a stretch.
I also just saw your comment that we “flaunt” our wealth?! LOL! First of all, we aren’t wealthy, our income certainly does not allow us to claim that level of status! For God’s sake, we live in a 1970’s neighborhood in Manassas…I hardly would call that flaunting wealth…so he has a nice truck to present a sound and solid image of his company, which it is…should he drive around a clunker because he is worried that he is calling attention to himself and “flaunting” his wealth with his truck? Second of all, only a handful of people that post on this blog know who I/we are, so I am not flaunting his status either, since I am posting under an anonymous name. Yes, anyone that knows me more than in passing knows my family situation and I’ve yet to run into an “Emma” or a “Rick” in my day to day life…only in anonymous situations have I heard the kind of derogatory language about our relationship.
On TWINAD, I do feel it’s wrong that her husband stays here when he shouldn’t. It’s a tough situation but one that’s borne out of cheating in the first place.
If whatever line ever gets drawn allows TWINAD’s husband to stay, I won’t picket in the streets over it.
I take a little exception to “If all native born Americans had half as much initiative and drive as he does, this would be a better world, that is for sure.” You’re apparently not eager to go live where he comes from, so I guess we have more initiative and drive than THOSE people have.
I wouldn’t picket, either, since “legal is legal” isn’t it? But Twinad, sorry, you do hold your husband’s status as a hatchet over people’s heads here, and it doesn’t take much to put you on the defensive about it, and not much more for you to attack people with whom you might actually have some common ground. Good for you that he stays under the radar and is able to stay in the country; good for you that you all can afford $48,000 cars, and good for you that your relatives and friends work hard and manage to stay under said radar, too. But the argument can be turned right back around on you, because you seem to be saying that your family/friends are representative of all illegal immigrants. We know that is simply not true.
Emma, I’d love to see a reliable news source to tell me what “court” President Bush was sitting on when he signed the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. The Oval Office Court?
Twin, thanks for sharing some real life experience with our broken immigration system. I’m sorry you had to go through that. Who knew that the themes of the movie “Green Card” with Andie McDowell and that cute French guy would end up being the preoccupation of so many people who are not themselves foreign born or married to someone who is. You and your husband contribute much to our county and our country. You are welcomed and appreciated by all but those who are most infected by hysteria and partisanship.
Reading Twinad’s account of why her husband is not in status makes me question who changed the laws? Did congress change the law? Perhaps this was a regulation type change.
It seems to me that we are still back to abstractions. What is wrong with this country that its government would try to split up families?
For all the bs and bluster one heard out of the Bush Adminstration about family values, blah blah blah, this seems to be a strange way of showing it.
And Emma, I don’t think Twinad holds a hatchet over people’s heads. She responds with facts that dispute some of the sweeping generations made by some people on the blog. And if she seems to strike back quickly at you, perhaps it is because she has a long memory. I do too. I would rather not bring up specifics or ‘trot’ them out….