Time to trot out some of the 9500 Liberty videos that document the evil manner in which Chief Deane was treated. It appears that a few of our contributors have forgotten or never knew what really happened. Here, irate citizens demand an apology to the chief:
9500 Liberty tried to give Corey Stewart an opportunity to clarify his position on the Chief Deane issue. To give Corey the benefit of the doubt, it appears that he wasn’t after Chief Deane’s head; he was only helping his friend Greg go after Chief Deane’s head. (if we take him at his word)
One has to ask the important question: WHY? What was in it for Greg to make the ill-advised move to go after a well-respected community leader? Why would Corey risk the ire of his colleagues on the BOCS to turn their emails to him over to a blog owner? Why would Corey alienate his constituents by allowing a popular county icon like Chief Deane to be attacked? Who was controlling the strings?
Prince William residents overwhelmingly support their police chief, Charlie Deane. Corey Stewart said Chief Deane was an excellent police chief and had won national citations. Who do you believe, Greg or Corey?
This was not politics as usual. Corey seemed sincere in the video in his support of Chief Deane. None of this makes sense. Is it time to give Corey the benefit of the doubt? Is it time to him another chance?
I think Deane is completely self-interested. I think that he would round the illegal immigrants up and place them into concentration camps if someone promised him something in his interests, such as maybe gold-plated donut holders for officers’ cars.
LBH, the issue is less hot because so many of the illegal immigrants in our area lost their homes after 2 years when the balloon loan payments ballooned, and the construction industry downturned. Bring them back en masse and the issue will heat up again I’m sure. Maybe to the point that Greg L would be elected to the BOS.
Rick, I agree with you that the video M-H found is of no help to you. It is of no help to you, or to any of the handful of sheep who sadly remain beside themselves with feverish rage and bitter disappointment over their failure to convince more than .001 percent of the county that Chief Deane is a traitor. In all seriousness, what did you expect?
Rick, it demonstrates how little you know about police work or about Chief Deane that you cannot acknowledge that his primary interest is the safety and the future of this county. Instead you offer an offensive cliche about police officers that soft minds gather from the movies.
LBH, I would welcome a return of Sean Connaughton, if that is what you are implying. You are correct, the unfortunate tenure of Chairman Stewart has empowered right wing radicals and bifurcated the county and the BOCS by elevating right wing radicals to quasi-legitimacy, and forcing everyone else to band together to balance them out.
If we could put a moderate Republican back in the Chairman’s seat, or a moderate Democrat, we could regain our equilibrium as a community and a government. We would be able to focus on issues that affect everyone’s quality of life, like transportation, education, and public safety, rather than focusing on issues that only concern radical extremists, like demographic shift.
Are you kidding? I watched “NYPD Blue”, “The Wire”, and many fine movies … I know all about police work.
My and HSM’s interest is the safety and future of this county. Under the direction preferred by you, Craig Gerhart, Marty Nohe, and Charlie Deane, it was descending into an overpopulated Spanish ghetto that was leaking money and sliding irreversably into ghetto-ism, where the residents consume more than they pay in and the infrastructure decays. Even wonder how an inner city becomes an inner city? That’s exactly how – overpopulation by those at the bottom of the economic scale – and history shows us that it is more or less irreversable. I guess you were very excited about all the new business generated by taco trucks and Dish Latino installations and no-money-down no-habla-Englais mortgages on half-million dollar homes … I didn’t regard it as a great place to live.
I do actually respect the police, and think that most of the actual officers are worthy of great respect, but do not respect Charlie Deane’s “see no evil, hear no evil” approach to law enforcement.
Rick, if Chief Deane is so easy to sway with bribes of doughnuts, and if it’s true that the “majority of legal residents” wanted concentration camps, why were there no such camps? Chief Deane is an immovable object of faithful service to this county. The one who did the flip-flopping was Corey Stewart. He was even willing to throw his reputation down the toilet because Greg Letiecq threatened or bribed him or both.
“feverish rage and bitter disappointment”
I perfer to call it “righteous anger at the liberal orthadoxy that is ruining America”.
Rick, I stand corrected. Your sophomoric understanding of law enforcement was molded by over-consumption of both movies AND television.
Like you, I noticed a lot more Hispanics and a lot more Asians than I was accustomed to seeing in this county. But it never occurred to me to try to use county government or the county police force to chase certain people out of the county. I was shocked and saddened when racial resentment and fear were seized upon as election issues. But, for a short a time, I did not know whom to believe when I heard stories about diseases or crime waves. Later I learned that the fear propaganda was for the most part inaccurate, often a flat out lie. But your concerns about who lives in your neighborhood, what language they speak, or whether they appear to be documented in your limited estimation is NOT a matter for Chief Deane to take up on your behalf.
Rick, your opinion of Chief Deane has been adulterated by Greg Letiecq’s hate campaign. The majority of the BOCS agreed with Chief Deane that “probable cause” was legally dubious. You may not know why, but the reason why you were duped in to believing Chief Deane was guilty of treason was to avoid repealing “Probable Cause.”
As I mentioned, your two saviors Stewart and Stirrup voted with the majority (probably just to save face but they did go on record repealing the most radical aspect of their immigration law). Each of the last five Presidents believe immigration is a federal issue, not a local law enforcement issue. The current Congress believes the same. And, Virginia law is consistent with PWC’s policy of checking status AFTER ARREST instead of out on the streets. Your beef is not with LBH, not with Lafayette, and not with me. Your beef is with the American system of government, our noblest ideals, and our Constitution.
Chief Deane a Liberal? I think not. Rick, I am a conservative who has come to support comprehensive immigration reform at the federal level rather than local “crackdowns” because I experienced first hand what transpires when you approach this issue in precisely the wrong way. Many of the other posters on this blog also lived through the veritable race war that ripped this county apart, and the ill-fated “probable cause” mandate, which resulted in higher taxes and less money for police and fire departments, a damaged local economy, and a disastrous local housing market which cut our home values by 35%.
The fact is that people in this county lean to the right more often than not. But most of us were pushed to the left somewhat because there I observed undue influence on county matters being exerted by a very extreme faction of the right.
On most days, this blog is about evenly split. The founder of the blog is a staunch conservative, and the primary moderator is a feisty independent.
@Rick Bentley
“Your beef is with the American system of government, our noblest ideals, and our Constitution.”
Not really. Yhanks for the insult though.
“veritable race war” – what an asinine thing to say. The Latino population in PWC grew steadily year to year, and is substantial now.
“But your concerns about who lives in your neighborhood, what language they speak, or whether they appear to be documented in your limited estimation is NOT a matter for Chief Deane to take up on your behalf.”
So it’s none of my business if they engage in identity fraud, how many people they cram into the house next to me (claiming relation based on false identity), whether they are child molesters untracked by the systems used to track citizens, and whether I’m paying 20K a year or whatever to teach English to their kids. It’s also presumably none of my business when I start seeing gang graffiti on the sidewalk.
In fact it’s not my usiness either if our ruling class continues to export jobs and to systematically degrade wages. I should just endorse the constant bailouts of the ruling class, and learn to love it.
dang my constant typos
LBH, you should be glad that your house only depreciated 35%. It was as much as 66% in the more diverse neighborhoods that caused all the hysteria and alarm. That’s a big reason why your house went down 35%. Our county’s housing market was poisoned by two or three areas most impacted by the folly that was the Immigration Resolution. This is what led to the cutbacks in public safety that all of us are now lamenting, because our county government runs on tax revenue.
But I the economic impacts of the Resolution was just another tragic fallout from a policy that was against our values and against the Constitution anyway. It’s good that the unconstitutional law was fixed, but the damage was done for the most part. I opposed it because it was counter to my values, not my pocketbook. To be honest, I didn’t foresee the pocketbook impact.
I also watched the “Andy Griffith Show” and the similarities between Barney Fife and the pompous yet strangely inarticulate blowhard that i saw at the HSM meeting are evident.
Greg Letiecq DOES look like Barney Fife, only Barney Fife had more hair.
i was referring to the spit-shined buffoon of Chief Deane.
Rick, I did not willifully mischaraterize this. Encouraged, told, asked, requested…what ever the word it’s the same. His encouragement was his spoken words therefore “told” is fitting in this context.
What’s wrong with you today? Did a “mexican jumping bean” crawl up your butt? And, if you were a woman I’d think it was that time of the month. 😉
FYI-my stance on illegal immigration has not changed one iota.
I don’t think Gerhart is a crook. Crooks worked for him. That doesn’t make him a crook. I don’t think Charlie Deane is a buffoon either and he obviously cannot be bribed with doughnuts or anything else.
If he lived near you, Rick, I would hope he would be professional enough to put his private feelings on hold and uphold the law.
I watch ER and House periodically. It doesn’t make me a surgeon. Trust me, you don’t want me digging and cutting any more than I want you doing police work.
Rick, I didn’t realize you were so tied to HSM. I actually have followed you for a long time. You will go over to bvbl and go nuts on gays, abortion and all the things that the right wings hate. You know how to jerk chains. I expect this is our chain jerking today. You are sharper than this and too much of an independent thinker to be buying Greg’s BS about Deane and Gerhart.
I would think anyone with a 4th grade education would be too much of an independent thinker to buy Greg Letiecq’s BS about Deane, Gerhart, or anything for that matter. Maybe a 4th grade equivalent HSM’er got a hold of Rick’s computer today.
M-H, just so I understand you, what does Rick say about gays and abortion on the old blog?
But my feelings on this have not been influenced at all by Greg L or by HSM or by the bvbl web page. As I’ve said before, this anger was in me before there WAS an HSM.
Rick, I’m right there with you I was angry several years before HSM. I still get angry at some of the crap that continues to go on around my neighborhood. I don’t think everyone on this board lives in the hard hit hoods we live in.
Rick, no doubt the anger is your own. I wouldn’t begrudge you that anger. Anger is a natural thing, and it is often exacerbated by fear: fear of “the other,” fear of change, etc. But as you gain more information and insight, you are supposed to be able to temper that anger and fear, and develop a more sophisticated outlook that takes into account best practice studies, the science of police work, democratic ideals, Constitutional rights, etc.
I have no quarrel with the anger and fear that made you vulnerable to Greg Letiecq’s message of empowerment. Our quarrel is what you did after you learned what it was really about. As Lafayette and others will attest, most people who got entangled in Greg’s web eventually worked their way free. Why didn’t you?
An entirely rational fear of my neighborhood becoming a ghetto.
I’m entangled in no one’s web. Let me turn this around on you. what exactly of HSM’s agenda do you object to?
Lafayette, it’s probably a question of whether ends which are vitally important and in happeir times we could all agree on – safe neighborhoods, discouragement of identity theft, government tracking of criminals – justify means which can be construed as being “biased” and can supposedly lead to a bad reputation. My posotion on that question is, heck yeah. I WELCOME a reputation for PWC as intolerant if it will discourage what we tolerated a few years ago.
My neighborhood is SO MUCH BETTER now. And yes there are latinos on my block. Not 19 to a house though.
Funny how that list of events came out after complaints were made about Chief Deane meeting with the Mexicen Consolete, not before.
Boy, can’t spell today, sorry
Does anyone know why the resolution was introduced in the first place?
Thanks for asking, Rick.
I’ll tell you, it was Help Save Manassas’ tactics more than their agenda that really made my skin crawl. Sending people threatening emails. Posting their addresses on the internet and suggesting someone go to their house because they didn’t like their opinion. Using rumor and slander to attack and destroy anyone who disagreed with them, for instance.
They started with ordinary citizens how dared to write a Letter to the Editor, and worked their way up to Supervisors, members of the County Government, and Police Chief Charlie Deane. It was largely internet generated and anonymous. But when it appeared in public, it reminded me of dark chapters in American and world history where a dark wave of propaganda and hysteria targeting a minority of people somehow infected the government itself.
As for the agenda, it was the racial profiling thing. I just couldn’t believe that we got to a point that otherwise reasonable people could not understand the pitfalls and drawbacks to racial profiling.
From a moral standpoint, I was very uncomfortable with the fact that so much of the impetus and so much of the expression coming from HSM was founded in hatred of one particular minority.
@Rick Bentley
One correction to some of the comments on here. As much as I was never a big fan of the “crack down,” I think it is incorrect to suggest it was ever “legally dubious.” Any action that a local governing body takes runs the risk of litigation, whether it is a taking by eminent domain, a rezoning, or even, yes, a “crack down.” Some actions are definitely more risky than others in terms of inviting lawsuits, but just because someone sues does not mean they will ultimately win. Moreover, just because someone sues does not mean that the defendant in that lawsuit was liable or guilty of anything.
The problem, of course, is that lawsuits are very expensive and a few big ones can really do damage to a local government budget. Add to that the additional millions needed for in car cameras to provide evidence for defending against these potential lawsuits, and it seems to me that the Board simply decided that the costs outweighed the benefits.
Chief Deane absolutely expressed concern about getting into immigration at all because he felt it would hurt his department relationship w/ certain immigrant communities. But he never, to my recollection, ever suggested that any of the Board’s actions were unlawful or “legally dubious.” Challenging, to be sure, but not legally dubious.
Incidentally, “probable cause” (or probably cause as some joke on here) is a US Supreme Court tested standard for criminal investigations and a tool used by police officers throughout the country in their daily law enforcement activities–even in Prince William County, notwithstanding the “neutering” of the resolution.
Anyway, just felt I needed to clarify that.
On bvbl Rick was pro choice and not anti gay. He used it to goad them and he was horribly funny. He also was not Rick. He has a whole set of fans who tell him to go back to the basement or something like that.
I was always impressed with how he knew just which buttons to push to make some of the red circles freak. He has his own buttons for us too.
Too bad we never get to see good Rick without us crossing over to the dark side.
Witness Too, I think that much of what you don’t like is more about BVBL than HSM.
As to racial profiling, I don’t have a problem with it. Most people don’t. I say let law enforcement profile or do whatever they have to do to get their job done. I remember vividly that in the 2000 Presidential debates that both Bush and Gore promised to do away with racial profiling, and Bush had Ashcroft working on an executive Order forbidding it. Then 9/11 happened. And most of America sees more clearly that racial profiling is a tool for use in security, moreso than an instrument of racial prejudice.
I’m all for it. If I’m at a party where most everyone else is non-white, and someone scrawls “white power” in chalk on the wall, and they decide to search people for chalk, and the people searched are disproportionately white, it’s A-OK with me.
“I was always impressed with how he knew just which buttons to push to make some of the red circles freak. He has his own buttons for us too.”
Most people over there don’t freak out. There was a period where there was some freaking out. Perhaps I made a few ignore lists.
I’m over there as BothPartiesColludeAgainstUsAndMarketToYourFears .
Rick bares all. ho ho ho. Yup. There is someone over there that you continually yank. I think your existence yanks them. I always enjoy knowing about it.
I will have to admit, you are an equal opportunity chain jerker.
Rick and Lafayette, there are lots of other people around who have lived in very close proximity to bad neighborhood situation. Gainesville Resident pops into my mind right off the bat.
The idea that anti folks are sitting around eating tea and crumpets is absurd. Not all bad neighborhood situations are from who we think are illegal immigrants. Some of our bad neighborhood situations are because of bad neighbors.
Some areas have been impacted more so than others.
Rick, most people here took exception to the rhetoric used. Many of us also took exception to the cozy situation between certain organizations and the bocs. The bocs got railroaded by out of towners who really have nothing to say about our government. I personally do not like the politics of personal destruction and the bullying that has gone on from hsm members.
Rick, do you have BothPartiesColludeAgainstUsAndMarketToYourFears as a macro? I would hate to type that mouthful each and every time.;)
Moon, yes, Gainesville is one that comes to mind. Gsinesville, did live in one of the very neighborhoods I was speaking of. However, I don’t think that the majority of posters on here live in the same type of neighborhoods we do. I have many friends that live in the Bull Run Mountain area, and they have different kinds of issues in their neighborhods than we do here in the older established neighborhoods.
I wholeheartedly agree with Rick, my neighborhood looks a hell of lot better than it did two years ago. And I didn’t need Rick to tell me yes, some latinos on my block. I know my block is a rainbow of people from all parts of the world. The nice thing is, it’s all single families living on block now. That’s are major improvement compared to the dozen overcrowded houses and prostitutes strolling good ole Lafayette Ave.
“The bocs got railroaded by out of towners who really have nothing to say about our government. ”
??? I don’t think so.
And all those letters to bocs from AZ and CA generated by Numbers usa were local folks? I don’t think so.
How about the ACLU types vowing to sponsor lawsuits against us?
Talk’s cheap. Where are the lawsuits?
I think letter writing on behalf of a jurisdiction, acting like you live there is influence email-peddling or something.
I only know of one group who threatened to sue. Obviously the county wisely repositioned itself so that it wasn’t a lawsuit magnet.
Ah yes, Lafayette – you are quite right. Indeed, I know very well what you and Rick are dealing with – as I think the situation in my neighborhood is very similar to yours. For awhile I hoped for change in mine, and then kind of resigned myself to the fact that it was not going to improve unless some sort of unexpected change occured. I did not think some people there would ever become responsible and take care of their properties, not throw trash out on non trash days and let it blow all over the place, not blast stereos 24×7 or instead of knocking on a door late at night, sit in the car and blow their horn, etc. etc. I could list more but that’s enough to make my point.
Now, maybe I’m wrong and with the right type of involvement these people could be made to see the light and become responsible residents, but I just don’t know. I lost all hope, and found it a terribly depressing living situation and it affected my mood and everything. Well, I was extremely sleep deprived with the constant noise – and got tired of bothering the City of Manassas police in the wee hours of the morning – figuring they had much better things to do. Anyway, they’d come, it would be quiet for awhile, maybe a day or two sometimes, and then they’d start right back up again.
Anyway, fortunately I was in a position to be able to move out of there, and decided it was time to upgrade from a townhouse to a single family home. For me, I just chose to abandon the neighborhood – although I’m still a property owner there and a very very reluctant landlord. I still plan to sell the property in 2 years – and hopefully get a little bit more than I’d get today.
In any event, every day I say to myself how great it is to not deal with what I dealt with back in Point of Woods. This neighborhood is very diverse ethnically – yet everyone is friendly, respectful of their property and otehrs, and believe it or not I’ve hardly ever seen even a piece of paper floating around, other than for the construction sites, but that’s to be expected. I used to feel like I was in a minefield with my dog back at the old neighborhood, trying to sidestep pieces of broken glass, food wrappers, and all sorts of other objects an inquisitive dog would love to investigate and pick up in her mouth.
Anyway, for those posters on here like Rick and Lafayette (and I know Lafayette has effected a lot of change in her neighborhood) you definitely have my sympathies as I can relate 100% to your situations. For me, I just maybe took the relatively easy way out. I just didn’t see anyone in my neighborhood really trying to effect change, and I might have been just as guilty as anyone else I suppose. But for me I was going out of my mind practically with the constant noise, trash, and other problems – I’ve already discussed ad nauseum on here the break-in to my house by one person who lived in the flophouse next to me.
So, as I said, I sort of chose the easy way out, and just decided to get out of the neighborhood – and I spent time seeking out what I thought to be a quiet neighborhood, that is not by any means “all white” – it has a mix of Hispanic, African-American, and Asian families besides white people. So far I’ve been very happy with my choice of neighborhoods – my own street is ethnically diverse – including my house as of this moment there are 5 finished/occupied houses, with just 3 more to go. Of the 5 houses, the breakdown by family are 3 white families, one Hispanic, and one African-American (although came here from Jamaica and have interesting accents that I enjoy listening to when they talk). I would say this is typical of the mix throughout the neighborhood, although there’s a sizeable Asian population too. Of course, I shouldn’t leave out my wife – who is Chinese, so I shouldn’t count my household as all Caucasian as I did when I wrote a few lines above. My point is, and I think MH said this once – my old neighborhood did a rapid change from middle class to lower class, and that indeed caused lots and lots of problems. Also the huge percentage of flophouses were a major factor. Flophouses are just NOT good, no two ways about it. Anyone who lives next to one, like I did for the last 3 years of my time at Point of Woods – has my very deepest sympathies, and I hope their neighborhoods and situations change for the better (or have changed for the better as it seems some antibvbl posters have reported).
I have not been back to Point of Woods since January when my old house got rented out. But I’ve gotten reports that it has not improved very much, and lots of trash is strewn about, there’s lots of loud music blasting, etc. It makes me continue to believe I did the right thing, although I understand some people would probably rather see people stay and effect change. It is just not within me to do that, without other people also doing it – and I did not really detect anyone even in the HOA who gave much of a care about it, and it was not a battle I personally was willing to take on, on my own.
Anyway, personally for me moving out of there was the best decision I ever made. At the same time, it’s sad to see what became of what was back in 1983, when I moved in there, considered to be a very nice neighborhood in Manassas. At the time many of my coworkers from IBM lived there – but over the years they gradually moved out – some getting transferred, some moving to single family homes, etc. Anyway, over time just a lower class of people moved in, and a large amount of properties became rentals and turned into flophouses. That’s the best I can describe it.
Anyway, I have fallen behind reading this long thread – but I saw the comments and thought I’d toss in my perspective.
I’m very glad for Rick and Lafayette that their neighborhoods have changed for the better. I personally don’t think my old neighborhood has, but would love to be proved wrong. After all, I’m still a property owner there. Although, even if I sold today at these depressed prices, I’d make a profit over what I paid way back in 1983 (that’s not hard to do obviously) plus the house is paid for so I’d pocket most of the proceeds of any sale. I really plan on unloading it in 2 years, I hate being a landlord – even an indirect one, as the property is managed by a property management company the builder hired, as part of this “guaranteed 24 months lease” deal that was one of the incentives offered to get me to purchase my new house – taking away the worry of whether the house could be sold or rented in time before my new house was ready for move-in.
By the way, there’s lots of nice property/houses available in Gainesville. I’d recommend my neigbhborhood, but sadly NOT my builder. That’s a long story – most problems are now corrected, and while the neighborhood and the style of my house is very nice, we’ve had a ton of problems and getting the builder to fix them is easier said than done. My neighbors have had similar issues. Other than the builder, this is a great neighborhood, but again sadly I wouldn’t recommend this particular builder to anyone, as I’m not the only one that’s had some crazy issues that the builder was responsible for and has taken a lot of effort to get them to correct.
Wow – I posted the above post and didn’t realize how long it was. Sorry – I did NOT mean to post a huge length post – but it is not a short story to tell – about my experiences in my old neighborhood. I could write a book actually – so maybe everyone should be happy my above post wasn’t any longer. I was a bit shocked when I saw how long it was after I hit “Submit”!
Actually, I think one key thing is families living in townhouses or single family homes are fine. Large numbers of unrelated people are not! THAT at least is one lesson I learned from my experiences. Flophouses = BAD! If I could summarize my lengthy post above, that’s what I’d say.
I meant to say “families of all ethnic groups living in townhouses…”
Gainesville, long, but insightful. I don’t blame you for leaving POW. I think in ways those of us in neighborhoods without HOA’s have a better chance of seeing improvement, and the fact that single family homes don’t seem to have as many rental units in them. I’m sticking out here..My mom lives across the street, my daughter’s a sophomore in high school, and clearly not the time to sell. Trust me, had I not had the family issues, I’d been outta here a few years back. At the end of the day, I’m glad I’ve stuck out. I remain hopeful, but it is very hard at times. And by the same token I would NEVER hold it against those that chose to move elsewhere.
@Witness Too
My house assessment went from $354K in 2007, to $272K in 2008, to $123K in 2009! How’s that for depreciation!!! And now I’m not your typical homeowner just living there and looking at what it’s worth – I’m not living there anymore and would like to sell it in 2 years. Then again, way back in 1983 I paid $80K for it, and the house is paid off, so it’s not like I’m underwater or anything.
That amount of appreciation is just SHOCKING! And, I can say exactly why it is – overcrowded houses, inhabited by people who trash up the neighborhood and don’t care about it – because they are transient and only live there a month or two. I really could not recognize my neighbors in the house on one side of me, because they kept changing constantly and there were so many of them! THAT is what led to the huge depreciation in housing values in Point of Woods. The economy/foreclosures were a factor, but that did not account for that huge drop from $354K to $272K to $123K over a TWO YEAR PERIOD! People who only saw their properties depreciate 33% are just lucky, if you ask me!