This is a continuation of the HOA “Us vs. Them” discussion from the “Trotting Out the Past” thread.
I am a member of the Chamber of Commerce, which is like an association for business people. I pay dues, I get to network with others to pick up business contacts, and I give back by volunteering my time on committees, events and offering my professional services for free. I can be part of the decision-making if I want.
How is a homeowners association different — why is it so “us vs. them”? Isn’t it an association of all homeowners who pay dues? Aren’t there opportunities to get to know each other as neighbors and network? Aren’t the board positions held by homeowners like you or me, people just as busy with their jobs and their families and their own home maintenance? How can it be us vs. them when they are us? Why do people feel helpless and alone when they are part of an association of others right in the same neighborhood?
Also, the City is proposing a lien on property owners if they don’t clean up their graffiti. Wondering what others think of that versus how the county handles the issue.
I don’t like the idea of the City with the lien about graffiti. So that doesn’t go over too well with me.
You brought up a lot of other interesting things and I’d like to comment on them – but am busy right now. This evening I probably will write a little about my opinions on this subject. You make some good points though. Unfortunately, the Point of Woods HOA is run by a select few, aren’t interested in input from anyone else, and the one meeting I went to years ago to discuss parking lot issues – was very poorly attended and the few people that did attend, it was just a gripe session on some really silly things (“my neighbor XYZ stepped on my flower garden and ruined my plants”, “my neighbor ZYX closes his front door too loudly late at night”, etc. etc.). That was the FIRST and LAST meeting I ever went to – back in 1987 or thereabouts. Their newsletter is very condescending and lectures everyone on things, but they never take any action. They threaten to fine people who put out trash on non-trash days, but the same people continue to do so. I called and complained, and they said they were “handling the situation”. Six months later – those same people were STILL putting out trash.
I could go on and on – anyway, as you can tell, I don’t have a favorable view of the Point of Woods HOA. THEY are the ones that make it ‘them against us’. They complain in the newsletters they are doing a lot of hard work and no one is helping, but then when someone calls them and tells them things they turn a deaf ear, or then put in the newsletter that they are tired of people calling them and “whining”! They make it sound like everyone is just a bunch of lazy bums who are unwilling to do anyhting in the community. Although, in the past 5 years that may be sort of true, but they started on that theme more than 15 years ago, and I got tired of hearing it. As I once told them – if you hate it so much, why are you sitting on the board of the HOA? I felt like a very tiny violin should be playing for them! All they do is gripe in the newsletters about people not doing stuff like picking up trash and so on! They ignore the really big issues in the neighborhood, and are unwilling to listen.
Oh well, I already wrote a book. Don’t get me started – I could write a feature length script on the Point of Woods HOA!
Cleaning up grafitti can be very expensive and time consuming. Many people, especially in areas where grafitti usually occurs, simply don’t have the money to shell out. Many are low income or on fixed income. What a horrible idea.
Speaking of homes, does everyone know that clicking the little house in the upper left hand corner next to: about/solutions/wackiness will will take them back to home on this blog?
One of the worst things in our neighborhood from what I hear is the way people make complaints to the HOA (or even the cops) without ever speaking to their neighbor first. In fact, they don’t even make the attempt. This hasn’t happened to me, but I’ve heard from numerous people that someone called about their barking dogs or their trash can being out more than a day but they never heard from anyone other than the HOA or animal control. This is utterly ridiculous.
I know it’s hard to confront a neighbor, but usually, if you do it in a nice way, they get the message. If they don’t, then you can turn to something like a written note (and keep a copy). A written note also works if the person isn’t home. It is best to talk to your neighbor directly, but this isn’t always possible.
We’ve had some issues with our neighbors and it wasn’t because they were mean or irresponsible or anything of the sort (we really like our neighbors a lot). It was just one of those things that happen when you live near others. So we talked about it, and it’s all good.
My point is, don’t call the cops or the HOA before you talk to your neighbor. And when you do, go in with the attitude that they are not TRYING to be obnoxious or whatever you feel they are. Be polite and kind and all that. If you can’t seem to resolve it that way, then go to the HOA.
Of course, if your HOA is obnoxious or useless, then that doesn’t help. Then, it’s time to confront your HOA members and tell them what you expect from them. Raise hell with your fellow neighbors–you know, the ones you didn’t call the cops on. 🙂
@Moon-howler
Yeah. I have a collection, but I thought I would leave it here on my computer. Ironically, I didn’t even have to get that collection from BVBL which I don’t read.
Pinko, help me out here. What collection?
A lot of Advocator. I can pick more up on the web, I am sure, by people who don’t read what I really write.
I was on Citizen Tom and “Concerned with Amnesty” was ranting and raving at me. I started to go my usual route and explain and re-explain. Finally, I told him/her to email me with everything she/he thinks I am said (I gave my email address) with the link to my post, and I would be happy to send a link and a quote back where I explained what I wrote.
Of course, I never heard back from him/her because people don’t want the truth. They want to believe what they want to believe. This particular person also said s/he would pass on my disrespect for the military or some such nonsense. Considering I don’t know who the person is and I considered going into the military myself, I consider this particularly cowardly.
I tried speaking to my neighbors – for one thing they don’t speak English (I’m referring to the flophouse in my old neighborhood) – for another, when they first moved in I waved and said hello – and got nothing back but a bunch of blank stares!! If you don’t understand a friendly wave and a hello, how in the heck are you going to make any success of yourself here.
I’m sorry, I’ve been there/done that. Then I escalated to the hapless Point of Woods HOA, and then to the overcrowding folks, who did help for awhile on 3 separate occasions getting that place cleaned out.
It is a bit simplistic to say “talk to your neighbors first”. Been there/tried that/didn’t work in my particular case. And 3 years later these same neighbors (well, different tenants, same owner) – were “neighborly” enough to break into my house, steal from it. Nice neighbors! Sorry, that may work in some cases, but not in mine – and I imagine NOT with most flophouses. The tenants come and go, you never have the same neighbors every month. Good luck complaining to each successsive set of neighbors.
THAT is what the HOA should be for, the overcrowding hotline should be for (once upon a time it was), and should not be up to a person to have to continually talk to his neighbors. If it were between two normal families living next to each other, I’d agree. But NOT when living next to a flophouse, no way, no how! I’ve had enough experience in that area that I can say it just won’t work. Those people view it as a place to sleep at night (maybe) or during the day (again, maybe) and could care less if they trash the neighborhood completely. They have no regard for anyone else, are definitely highly selfish people, and no amount of reaching out to them will help, I think. Flophouses are bad, and they bring out the worst of their inhabitants, or maybe they must bring the worst inhabitants to the neighborhood – I have’t made up my mind which of those two statements are true.
Anyway, I tried the “talk to your neighbor approach’ but when a wave and a hello is met with an ICY BLANK STARE – what would you have me do? And no, I’m not going to go out and hire a spanish translator to talk to them, so let’s not even go there!
Sorry, this is a real hot button topic with me – it ruined a good 3 years of my life, allowed me very few hours of sleep during that time, and just was a generally unpleasant decision. My only mistake was not to move out earlier – but I can only blame myself for being so stupid as to think things were going to change for the better.
I meant to say a “generally unpleasant time” in the first sentence of the last paragraph above. Don’t know how the word “decision” slipped in there! Makes it confusing to read!
GR, it sounds like you did everything I just suggested. I also suggested when that doesn’t work (which it didn’t in your case), THEN you go to the HOA and cops, which you did. So please don’t think I am criticizing! I’m not. I am only talking about what I have experienced. Your experiences are not mine (though I have lived in some pretty scary places as a renter).
As for the icy stare–people who don’t speak English often feel stupid or angry because they feel stupid (I’ve heard this from non-native speakers). So they aren’t friendly or they have no idea what you are saying. So they stare. In this case, you might want an interpreter (no matter how much it pisses you off to need one). I know this is really going out of your way, but if you do that, you know you have done all you can. (Again, I’m not saying saying you did the wrong thing. I’m just elaborating here and it’s in the past anyway.)
Flophouses and bordellos are illegal, so by all mean, call the cops after making the attempts you did. It’s bad, though, when people assume because people speak another language and a lot of people live in a house that it’s a flophouse. That’s the real problem–people make assumptions.
Did you ever try an HOA revolt with other neighbors? This can be difficult if you have lots of renters, but it is possible. A guy in my neighborhood raised a lot of hell with a petition. Unfortunately, he got ranked on by a lot of people, too, but in the end, he brought to light some serious problems with our HOA elections.
@Posting As Pinko
“she/he thinks I am said” Delete that “am.” Damn!
I have so many typos in that last post….it’s really time to get my eyes checked again.
I just got my eyes checked, and needed trifocals – I can relate. It hasn’t stopped me from making typos though.
I get what you’re saying, but if people can’t understand a wave and a hello, and can’t just wave back, I kind of give up. I tell you, I’ve been to China a bunch of times now over the past 5 years, and I get people who can’t speak any other word of English – old people, young people, you name it – they will wave and say “hello” even though that’s all they konw how to do. It is universal, so makes me think the people who lived near me in Point of Woods, were just completely unfriendly – could care less about their neighbors – and as that didn’t work, I wasn’t going to waste any more time or energy making any kind of effort ot get to know them. It was clear they did NOT want to get to know me.
Well, I guess it takes living next to a flophouse to endure the full affect of it, you have to savor it like a fine wine! And I got to, for three LONG years with a few breaks when the thing would get cleaned out.
I was tempted to report the bordello to the police, but it only lasted for a few short weeks, and actually as I said it was a quieter time than when it was a regular flophouse. The men came and went and didn’t make noise outside, and I guess as they were “happy customers” when they left they didn’t stand around outside arguing or whatever it is the normal flophouse people did. The women were rarely seen, but when they were out they were dressed very fancy if I do say so myself! All in all, the bordello people weren’t such bad neighbors. NOT that I wish to live next to a bordello ever again, and maybe if it had lasted longer than 3 weeks it might have begun to get under my skin a bit more. I’m sure it attracted some bad elements, but so did the flophouse, so as I said, the bordello was actually not too bad. I will say, the women didn’t look particularly attractive though, but I guess this one might have had low prices. Before anyone asks – no, I never thought to inquire what their “rates” were! They might not have spoken English anyway, so might have had a language barrier trying to inquire the cost of their services, NOT that I ever had any inclination to do so!
Gainesville, a bordello! That’s insane. Are you sure it wasn’t just some really popular gals? Joke, but also you probably weren’t sure and that could be why you didn’t call the police. I think very few people would judge, convict, and report their neighbors without some reluctance at least. For one thing, you could be wrong. But also, for most people I think it feels sort of “not-my-place.” I don’t know the word. But to put yourself in the position of judging who has broken the law and who is just an annoying neighbor. Neighborhood issues should be solved by Neighborhood Sevices and/or Office of Dispute Resolution type org’s. My whole problem with sicking the police on people who appear to be “illegal” was the fact that it was just as likely they were simply Latino.
I do not have a HOA. I can certainly say that my neighborhood has changed over the past 15. No one offered me any assurances when we bought our house that the neighborhood would never change. And I didn’t expect it would never change. Maybe that’s why I was not angry or afraid when a family with 3 teenagers moved in across the street and there are boys and girls loudly practicing lacrosse on the front lawn at 11 PM and screaming and laughing and waking up my husband.
Does it matter what race they are? Not at all. Does it matter that they weren’t there when we moved in? Nope. Because in 14 years, things change and we accept that. Would I complain to my HOA if I had one? Probably not.
But, should I start an aggressive lobbying organization, make up some fake stories about lepers and MRSA and force a law on the entire county banning lacrosse after 10 PM? Hmmm… not a bad idea. Anyone got my back?
Really? Why shouldn’t I have called the police. Men were coming and going pretty much hourly throughout the night. Pretty much like clockwork. I think the ‘evidence was in’. Besides, sometime later these nice people next to me broke into my house – a neighbor saw and recognized one of them running from it carrying one of my laptop computers. That house was full of criminals. The only reason I didn’t call on the bordello was it was only there 3 weeks. If it had been longer I definitely would have. Besides, if they were innocent, the police would have found nothing.
I don’t get the logic there. It isn’t my job to perform a complete forensic investigation before calling the police, that’s plain silly!
I was just trying to think along with you as to why you didn’t call the police for 2 weeks, Gainesville. I guess if it were me that fear of false accusation would stop me from doing it. You’re right if they were innocent the police would have found nothing, but then you’ve really insulted someone, haven’t you? How do you become friends with someone when they know your first impression was they were a prostitute. It would be embarrising beyond belief to be wrong. I just thought of another reluctance I would have. If I was right, they might know I was the one who reported them and do something back to me.
Anyway, I sympathize. Sorry if I’m just way off base trying to comment about such a difficult time.
Shelly, I think old GR knows a bordello when he sees one. 😉 He may have been born at night but it wasn’t LAST night.
Let’s face it. Some people are friendly and some people are just nasty. I believe this to be universal and having nothing to do with immigration.
Shelly, some of GR’s neighborhood problems were solved by the police because his neighbors broke in to his house while he was out of town for the day. Sometimes we just have to take people’s word for things.
Oh, and by the way, the people who broke into my house – I’m sure were illegal. The police came, questioned them, they had no ID, and fled later that night never to be seen again! They made off with a lot of good stuff from my house too. Fortunately I was smart enough to fully encrypt with passwords all the important stuff on the two laptops these crooks made off with. Also Windows could not be gotten into without a password. Therefore, I hope they had a good time buying new software for those computers! Most likely they stripped them down and sold them for parts. They also made off with a camera, and a bunch of cash my wife was stupid enough to leave in the house, along with her credit cards. Was lots and lots of fun canceling those credit cards and reporting them as stolen – she had acquired something like 6 of them somehow. Fortunately, no one charged anything on them before I reported them as stolen. Insurance wouldn’t pay for the missing cash, which was a lot of money she had somehow accumulated and was dumb enough to leave in the house. Altogether, that incident cost me a lot of money, more than $1K with higher insurance rates (my house had sustained hailstorm damage so now we had 2 claims in a 5 year period – resulting in higher rates). In fact, when I moved I’m still paying higher insurance rates because of it. Thanks to these IDIOTS I’m not a high risk insurance category for a few more years – from a homeowner’s insurance point of view. It also has cost me more to insure my old property as I still have to insure it against loss, in case my crazy tenant burns the house down, which I woudn’t put it past her.
Those of you who haven’t lived in these situations, can’t relate. I’m sorry to say that, but it’s the truth. I bet I know Rick will agree with me. You can say what you want, but if you lived next to what I did for 3 years – you would be highly skeptical of people saying not to call the police on various suspicions, etc. etc.
Yes, yes. I wasn’t saying not to call the police for anything. But merely saying I imagined one reason you didn’t call in the bordello instance was fear of false accusation. Nevermind. I was just putting myself in that situation. But you’re right. Loud teenagers is nothing compared to what you went through. If you want I won’t even try to relate. Mostly just wanted to respond because you put in a lot of time and I appreciate you for that, GR.
OK, ShellyB. Yes, I think I would have ended up calling the police, but as I said the bordello was only there for roughly a 3 week period. Maybe it was a temporary location until they found a better one! I don’t know why they came and went so fast – they appeared to have a good steady stream of clientelle! When a bunch of single guys moved in afterwards, I was worried it might still be a bordello – but I was not sure what kind! Fortunately, that wasn’t the case – it reverted back to being a flophouse! That’s good, I don’t think I would have wanted some other kind of bordello where there were “men of the evening” (is that what you’d call them?) there! I did have loud teenagers in the house next to me for a 2 year period – at the time I didn’t like that. Little did I know what was coming in the future – I would take loud teenagers any day compared to 10+ single men all making noise, coming and going all hours of the day and night, throwing out trash all over the place, etc. The teenagers might have been loud, but they were clean at least, and didn’t make the place look like a trash dump! Their property was well mantained (by their mother I think) so it wasn’t like what happened when the flophouse arrived. I’m glad you found my posts interesting. I could write a feature length book on my experiences, but I won’t! Actually, what’s above is a good summary of them – the “low points” so to speak! I was going to say “high points” but then realized, there was nothing positive about that experience, not one single thing! Every day I’m happy I’m not there – I have no regrets at all about moving away from that place! Although, I’m sad that it went downhill in such a short period of time, but that happens to lots of older neighborhoods unfortunately.
GR, we all benefit from your stories. So I do not mean to question you in any way. I am only curious: why are you sharing all of this with us? What is it you want people to understand? I’m sure it is something larger than just your own experiences. Is it because you want us to understand that many of the people in HSM were driven to extreme measures by extreme conditions?
Many of us have always understood why people found it necessary to band together regarding what was seen happening in neighorboods. Actually, it is still happening.
What most of us do not understand…notice the use of the word MOST…is how the situation digressed to the point it did and how our BOCS went off the deep end and listened to one group of people only.
I don’t think many of the decent members of HSM thought the group would turn into a bullying situation.
ShellyB – to be honest, I’m just venting a little. I don’t expect anyone to take away any wisdom from my stories. MH put up this thread, and it gave me an excuse to vent I guess. I don’t think I was trying to make any particular point. I’m glad people found my posts interesting, but sadly, I can’t say there was any real point I was trying to make! Thanks for asking though.
I have never been associated with HSM, and make no excuses for them, so if somehow that was thought to be the point of my posts, it definitely wasn’t. I don’t personally know anyone from HSM, so I have no idea what their thought process is, and I’m not a psychiatrist (I’m a software engineer, I’m not a doctor!). So, far be it from me to judge anyone from HSM or try to get into their heads. I leave that to other more interested parties in doing that than me!
Actually, this is Cindy B’s thread. But that’s ok, GR.
Oops, I forgot about that. Thanks MH, sorry Cindy B! Well, doesn’t change the rest of what I said above.
Actually, I know Cindy B has done a lot to improve things in a positive way, so I give her credit. I really was unable to do that, and as I said chose to leave. I would like to think things will improve in Point of Woods, but I don’t see anyone there willing to do that, and certainly not the HOA, that’s for sure! Actually, I may have sort off shifted this thread from its original purpose, now that I reread things.
I still say the graffiti proposal by the city is just plain wrong. Although, there has been graffiti at Point of Woods on the wall that behind Shady Grove Circle between it and the woods – that at least as of last october, had been there for at least 6 months and never removed. That went up at the same time they trashed the playground. The HOA removed all what was left of the playground equipment, but never cleaned up the graffiti. I don’t know if it is still there however. The HOA seemed to say that since it wasn’t visible from the road, they weren’t in any hurry to get it cleaned up! It had the usual gang symbols and other stuff – have no idea if it was by wannabe gang members or real ones. They DID trash the playground equipment, which of course was ashame. It was not the only playground around, so I guess from that point of view, it wasn’t as bad perhaps. Still, what kind of people do such things? And, the graffiti on the wall was disgusting, and it was full of graffiti, every inch of it! Maybe it is gone now, I just don’t know. I have no interest in going down there – even if I went back to my old house – it is not even visible from it, and I really have no desire to go investigate.
I’m still trying to understand. Is that how HOAs are supposed to work? Only a few homeowners — again, people who work, have families, do their own home maintenance — make the decisions and do the work of the neighborhood, and everyone else is powerless to get four or five people together to clean up graffiti, or start a Neighborhood Watch that then partners with police?
Point of Woods is Point of Woods 1, 2 3, 4 and East/Lakeside. I called Kisha Sogunro, the City’s Neighborhood Services Manager today and asked her some questions. She said Manassas St. Thomas Church is adopting these neighborhoods — flyers are supposed to start going out tomorrow — and is going to do a massive cleanup with residents July 29 through August 2, working with the residents of these five neighborhoods who lead the associations of homeowners. The City’s Neighborhood Services Dept is arranging to have 4 or 5 City courtesy trucks tao handle the debris. On Sunday, August 2, church members, residents — and anyone who wants to help — are going to have a block party at Stonewall Park and Pool to celebrate the new partnership and for neighbors to get to know neighbors.
If you live in or own a home in Point of Woods 1, 2, 3, 4 or East/Lakeside, this is your chance to make a positive change.
Gainesville Resident, your story is mportant, and should be told. I’m sorry you lived with all that turmoil and didn’t feel safe in your home. I encourage you to call Kisha (703-257-8240) and get involved — to help make this partnership project a success, but also to write a new ending to your story.
Some of the seeds of this project started after HOA leaders in Point of Woods 3 attended a Neighborhood Improvement Circle at Weems Elementary School for six weeks in March and April. You can make a difference in your own neighborhood.
“Us vs them” is more about maintaining property value and a high quality of landscaping appeal, than any other factor discussed by “Cambers of Commerce” which care more about community business profits, than the peace and stability and financial value of neighborhoods. Only the HOA cares about these things, and the “them” are those people, usually of very low income level who have grown up in an environment where they do not have high standards of property maintenence, landscape maintenence, and have no issue with living in over-crowded homes, which support over-crowded parking and overcrowded visitors going into and out of homes loudly, with screeching cars, with drunk parties and with total disregard for the safety and security of the other more ethical and responsible homeowners typically of higher income levels.
This is not about race and ethnicity, it is about ownership repsonsibility and appearance of the home, and the lifesyle surrounding the home.
“illegal” immigrants bring high poverty to neighborhoods, use 8A government mortgages (GMAC), Fannoie-mae and freddie mac handout programs that allow them to compete with less money, less income, and to buy and live in larger and more expensive homes that are difficult for people of even high income to afford and obtain. This “illegal” entitlement wave soreading over racist minority groups in America has put income classes and high and low caliber ethics of individuals into close neighborhood proximity, that has never happened to this degree before.
This is why higher income people are so pissed off, as theor property values are falling and their neighborhoods are de-stabilizing, becoming more trashy, more transient, and more corrupt and un-ethical as a result of people of higher poverty and lower income level moving into them.
No amount of “community service can solve low income, low values and low ethics typical of people who live beyond their means with assistance from the government. This is how ghettos are made.
My mortgage is with GMAC and I promise, it is not an 8A or a sub prime. No one handed me jack. My friend who lives in Clifton in a McMansion also has a GMAC mortgage. She isn’t on the dole either.
Additionally, I believe when Cindy speaks of ‘us vs them’ she means homeowners vs the HOA. This condition can exist where ever there is a homeowners association. The HOA has an objective of forced conformity in most cases. The homeowners generally strive towards individuality.
Trashy corrupt neighborhoods can become that way with people other than illegal immigrants. Ghettos can be made without the help of govt also.
This discussion brings up many problems that can occur within neighborhoods, but very few rock hard ways to address them. HOA’s don’t have much legal power to enforce rules. Ours has been trying to enforce several that has taken a great deal of time and legal fees with no positive result. If there was a standard of living and home appearance rules that were enforced by the county as if they cared, then that might be the solution. Unfortunately there are many people that think having only one car parked on the front lawn is no big deal, and would oppose that. Others will constantly make excuses for violators because the violators are of a certain ethnicity, or income level, or whatever they can to aid the violators as an act of resistance. We need a Resolution type action by the county that targets the issue, but as with the original Resolution it would probably be called unconstitutional or unfair or mean spirited and be reduced to ineffectiveness. Anyone have a real solution that works. I haven’t seen one posted yet otherwise there wouldn’t be all these tails of frustration.
Oops “tales of frustration” unless of course it involves pets!
Actually, I don’t think ordinances about things like cars on the lawn are unconstitutional, are they? You can go into any area and see a variety of people who park cars all over their lawns because they just plain think it’s okay. It’s not an ethnic thing in the least (“she says, recalling where she grew up”). But if you make up an ordinance like that, you have to enforce it, and then you have to deal with larger parking issues. Your local government might not want to deal with the details of this real issue, thogh. (It’s easier to put the problem off on illegals than it is to deal with the real issues.)
It’s also a good thing to enforce fire codes. Too many people in a house is a safety issue. But again–that needs to be enforced in the right way. You can’t have people crying wolf every time an extra person speaking another language walks into a house.
Cindy, you hint at a larger question: do we need a HOA to organize cleanups and community activities? I would say no. It’s better if the HOA would get on board, but if they aren’t into it, then we have a couple of choices. Get better people on the board and/or just do it ourselves. Yeah, I know. “It’s always the same people who do all the work.” Okay. Then let’s BE those people. If it’s bugging us enough, then we’ll do something about it, right? (I know I am preaching to the choir when it comes to you, Cindy 🙂 )
OK Cindy B. You’re right about how Point of Woods is divided. I lived in Point of Woods I and II (they are both run by the same HOA). Actually, I was in Point of Woods II. I was directly across the street from part of Point of Woods III however. But you are absolutely correct in all the “subdivisions”. I THINK Point of Woods I and II are the only “joint HOA” as it were. YEARS ago, a merge with Point of Woods III was discussed, but the two could not agree on financials or something. Personally, I thought it would have been a good thing and was disappointed it didn’t go through. I thought maybe the Point of Woods III HOA people might “knock some sense” into Point of Woods I and II HOA! Then again,it was just a hope of mine – for all I know Point of Woods III might be even worse than I and II HOA!
Well, I didn’t mean for you to take up the cause. If get some spare time next week, I’ll give Kisha a call. Today is too crazy, I’m covering for a good friend at work who’s wife died in a terrible accident last weekend, so I’m doing his job and my job until he returns. This is activity on the west coast, so I’m also working long hours in addition, and there’s still an outside chance I may have to fly out there on a moment’s notice this weekend or next week.
Thanks though Cindy – again I know you are very involved in this stuff, but didn’t mean for you to get have to get personally involved in Point of Woods issues.
I do have a vested interest as I’m still a property owner there even though I don’t live there – so for selfish reasons (increaseing the value of my house that I intend to sell in about 2 years) I probably should try to help effect change. I also for sentimental reasons, would like Point of Woods to get back to being what it was – a nice middle class neighborhood – or at last a well kept looking neighborhood. I think it is trending toward lower class, but at least if some of the trash and graffiti is cleaned up, that wuold help. I don’t have all the answers though – if I did I’d have posted them on here a long time ago and contacted the city. I have more complaints than answers, unfortunately. Again, maybe I’ll call Kisha sometime next week. Thanks for doing what I really couldn’t get myself motivated to do – I’m not really comfortable in the community activist role, and prefer to take a more background kind of role. But I’ll see what I can do in the way of at least contacting Kisha when I get some spare time.
My parents have a GMAC mortgage, and indeed, like MH, they are neither 8A or subprime. My parents have never been late on any bills, have no credit card debt, and live well within their means. They got the GMAC mortgage when they moved to a senior citizen “Active Adults 55 and over” community 10 years ago – and sold their paid off house but bought a house that was $50K more than the sales price. As a result, they just have a $50K 30 year mortgage, so their payments are very low. Actually, in NJ property taxes are very high! Even though their house is only valued at $250K roughly – their property taxes are $7K a year! So their property tax dwarfs their mortgage payment, believe it or not!
Anyway, to say GMAC only offers subprime and 8A mortgages is definitely incorrect, as MH said.
I think what prevents us from having property code laws that are stricter is VA is a Dillon Rule State. I could be wrong though.
SA, I have heard very little moaning and groaning and defending people with cars parked on the grass or things like that. Most people I know think that people need to reform to community standards regardless of their ethnicity.
It is inarguable whether a car is parked on the lawn or not. It either is or it isn’t.
What gets tricky is how many people live legally in a house. Are they related? Who is to say. Hard for the county to say they aren’t related. How many cars out front? Unless you have an HOA, not much you can do about parking 12 cars out front, often in front of other people’s houses. It is also tricky who owns what. I have personally seen appliances being hauled away on trucks on more than one occassion. Did I call the cops? No. I didn’t have an entire day to waste. I know damn good and well what is going on and so do the cops. But it is hard to prove on a dime who a refrigerator belongs to. I watched it go on at a house several doors down. I did nothing.
Why beat my head on the wall.
Pinko, it depends on your zoning. Now seriously, if you live in an established community, do you want your neighbors parking cars all over their front lawn? This has nothing to do with ethnicity. I agree. Its just low class and trashy looking.
If you are out in a more rural area and on a few acres, people aren’t going to get as hot and bothered.
Gainesville Resident, I didn’t mean to give you the impression I got involved because of what you posted. I direct Prince William Study Circles (www.pwsc.org) which has done seven circles on neighborhood improvement issues this past spring, and Point of Woods 3 was a participant, and they want to do another circle this fall. I also talk to Kisha a lot because I’m helping with the Week of Hope volunteers.
But I don’t live in an HOA, and I’m still trying to figure out why some people and communities take clear, simple actions to help themselves and others don’t feel empowered to do so.
I heard this at our action forum in May: There are people who care about their personal property, there are people who care about their street, and then there are people who care about their community. I’m not saying everyone needs to be involved in the community. It is hard work. Call Connie Moser in Lindendale — she mobilized hundreds of people to clean up Dale Blvd before the July 4 parade and she doesn’t live in an HOA area. Doing a one-day cleanup is relatively easy. Organizing all that takes a lot.
It just seems like if you’re complaining about how an HOA does things, then you’re complaining about yourself because you are part of that association. If I am a member of an association of business people like the Chamber of Commerce and I don’t like something WE are doing, because I am a member, then I need to try to make that better. If I am a homeowner who is in an association of homeowners and I don’t like something WE are doing or not doing, then I need help find the solutions to change that. Am I wrong in thinking that? When you choose to live in an HOA area do you really give your power away to THEM?
You say that you own property, and say that you are waiting for that property value to go up so you can sell. Are you willing to take actions to help raise those values? Four people on an HOA board can’t do that. An groundswell of homeowners and church members willing to get out there to clean up for four days and then have a party and build a sense of community pride can.
As one participant said this spring, the circles didn’t resolve problems, they resolved attitudes.
You aren’t alone, GR, and you can make a difference.
OK, I get what you’re saying Cindy B. As I said, I really lived in Point of Woods 2, although technically it is Point of Woods 1 & 2. Let’s just say this about my involvment in the HOA – they were never interested in letting anyone but their “clique” in, and at meetings they’d just limit time for people to speak, and just shut them up when they disagreed. I went to one meeting and saw this, and was shocked. I would write them letters, and they’d respond with snide remarks, saying I obviously hadn’t a clue what I was talking about. They told me that the overcrowding problem was not their problem to solve. The graffiti – they actually said that “it isn’t visible on from the street – why do you care”? I gave up. Probably the Point of Woods 3 HOA is different. As I said, years ago (1987 maybe???) Point of Woods 1 & 2 tried to merge with Point of Woods 3. There was some huge dispute about financials, and nothing came of it, as best as I can remember. It was a LONG time ago, so I forget the details. The same people have run the Point of Woods HOA for nearly the entire time I’ve been there, and they are very set in their ways, and believe that most of the residents are a bunch of idiots. Let’s put it this way, they hired this Dominion Towing, that would never tow people’s cars who parked 2+ cars in the lot. They towed my brand new car when it was less than a month old, damaged it, and it was the ONLY car I had parked in the lot. Then, they tried to deny all of it, wouldn’t pay for the damage – and the HOA told me that’s just too bad. They knew I only owned one car, and I hadn’t had anyone visiting me that night. Some idiot was parked in my numbered space, Dominion refused to tow them, and then came back and towed my car as I guess they figured why not? Problem solved, no more extra cars in the lot, and one unnumbered space freed up. The HOA stood by Dominion, and refused to take any responsibility.
Well, I didn’t mean to spout off on the whole subject, but THAT is why I was fed up with the HOA at Point of Woods. They just went from bad to worse, and their constant lectures in the newsletter to residents to “clean up the trash” in both English and Spanish, I think only served to exacerbate the problem. They basically talked down to the residents. They were part of the problem, instead of the solution. Maybe I was too, but I was basically apathetic in my last 3 years at Point of Woods. The HOA takes no responsibility, and is a lot of talk and no action. They threatened to fine people who put out garbage on non-trash days. Did they ever follow through? No, because my flophouse neighbors continued to put out trash 7 days a week, right through the time I left, often spilling over onto my lawn.
Anyway, in a nutshell (well, more than one) THAT is why I dislike the Point of Woods HOA. And, you can’t move anyplace here without haivng an HOA in a newer neighborhood in Northern VA. Unless someplace out in the boonies I suppose.
Until now, I’ve never seen anyone outside the HOA step up and do anything for the community. That’s a good thing. That said, as I’ve written, I haven’t been by Point of Woods since January, and that’s good for me personally. In fact, the furthest I venture into Manassas is the Costco and that’s by coming down Sudley Manor Dr. from Bristow area. Well, I was in old town for the 4th, but that was different, and once again did not go anywhere near Point of Woods.
I had an awful time there the last 3 years, and don’t have much desire to spend anytime down there. But, I do own property there, however even if I sold it now at its assessed value by the city of $123K, it’s paid off, I’d make a profit on it over the $80K I paid for it in 1983.
I just don’t know if i have it within me to devote much time to Point of Woods. It sapped a lot of energy from me the past 3 years, and I’m so much happier to be out of there and relatively far away from there (not that far away, but far enough away). I’ll have to think long and hard about getting involved. As I say, that makes me apathetic, and I know it’s bad, but I’m very happy now being away from it in a nice quiet neighborhood that is normal. Point of Woods is anything BUT normal and it is a disgrace, if you ask me. Point of Woods 3 may be in better shape actually, but Point of Woods 1 & 2 sure isn’t.
That’s my opinions, for what it’s worth, and I’m sure some people won’t think this line of thinking is a good one, and is full of apathy, but that’s the way I feel mostly at the moment. My life was miserable the last 3 years there, and everyone (the HOA, the City of Manassas, etc.) let me down and more or less turned a blind eye. The city helped for awhile until that lawsuit came along, and then they turned a blind eye on the flophouse next to me. The HOA never helped, and acted like they didn’t care. The police were great at coming over and telling them to turn down the stereos and noise at 2 AM in the morning, but I didn’t want to call the police very often, and for one thing take away from the much more important work the police have to do. I will say the police were the only one’s that followed through EVERY time I called them, but that was only a few times and then I decided it didn’t matter – the police would leave, it would be quiet, and the next night we’d be right back to loud noise at 2 AM in the morning.
Once again, sorry for the long post, but I just had to make smoe points here to make it understood where I’m coming from, and why Im’ kind of “apathetic” about the whole Point of Woods 1 & 2 mess (I’m going to distinguish it from Point of Woods 3, which sounds like there’s some community interest there).
I’ll take a stab at why more home owners don’t become involved in becoming HOA officers. And I’ll disregard commuting times and other demands on our time. Everyone has those constraints.
I’ve lived in a community with an HOA. It had an architectural review board to address issues such as tall grass, broken screen doors, houses that needed to be painted. However, the developer still had final say on what the HOA lawyer would pursue in court. And, of course, any offender was entitled to have so many days/weeks to remedy the problem. With all the legal steps involved, a scofflaw could probably get by with mowing his/her lawn three times a year – considering that the grass was dormant for half the year.
The architectural review board could have reasonable members who sought to address obvious problems (peeling paint, broken steps, untagged cars) or anal retentive types who would scream about the number of gnomes someone would have in his/her front yard garden. The solution to the complaint about over or under enforcement of the rules was to join the board. And be willing to pay more if you wanted a higher level of enforcement.
My present neighborhood has no HOA, just a civic association. Some areas of the neighborhood are well maintained and some are trashy. We have to rely on PWC to enforce police,zoning, or health regs. But our association has a great impact on what goes on in our neighborhood. In the past it has fought for creation of a taxing district, tried to set the level of road maintenance, tried to limit motorboats on the river, etc. I’ve been involved as an officer in the past as has my spouse. We’ve taken a lot of heat and had a few pats on the back – particularly when it came to the taxing district. Ultimately, you have to be willing to get out there and make your opinion known -and get back-up – if you expect to make any change.
The flip side of this is that you may/will be attacked and you have to decide how long you’re willing to put up with what,in some cases, is physical harrasment. (Thank you Caller ID!!) People get burned out, turned off, attacked,and invigorated by the combat. And it can be combat. Some neighborhoods will never be filled with people who are anywhere near like-minded and often this is good.
GR is right in saying that there are some people who are not going to change or who are anti-social. I’ve had neighbors like his. Luckily our neighborhood is on septic systems and any egregious over-crowding will raise a stink that won’t go unreported or unnoticed. I’ve had my share of loud druggies and loud dogs living next door as well. However, some of our least impactful neighbors have been some that many people would fear – Pagans (as in bikers) and jailbirds. They’ve caused the least problems and if someone messed with my house, they’d tell me.
I think it is good if neighborhoods can have block parties or similar events so that neighbors get to know each other without contentious issues which arise at HOA or civic association meetings. Then there’s not that quickness to write someone’s opinion off.
That’s a good take on things Censored. I have to agree with a lot of what you said. Better than my rather long rambling posts, in fact!
Leave it to Censored to have jailbirds and Pagans watching out for her. 😉
Great posts. I agree, people in neighborhoods shouldn’t be like minded. I wouldn’t want Pleasantville or “Weeds” (Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes made of ticky tacky, Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.) Safe and clean, that’s fine by me.
Pagans and jailbirds, oh my!! 😉
A short story …I tamed one of the titmice that came to my birdfeeder. It would eat out of my hand. Sometimes when I walked around the yard, it would follow me. Once the Pagan pulled up next to my fence and we were bs’ing while he sat in his truck. The bird landed on the fence next to me as though it was following the conversation. The Pagan was surprised.
@Moon-howler
“Now seriously, if you live in an established community, do you want your neighbors parking cars all over their front lawn? This has nothing to do with ethnicity.” Probably not. I think it’s reasonable to ask people not to do this. Of course, we used to do it all the time in Yahoo land when I was growing up. And the neighborhood was established. Then again, we were a working class neighborhood. And my mint green Ford LTD was indeed parked on the lawn.
Don’t tell me any more, Pinko. Please. My suburban heart won’t take it.
@Moon-howler
LMAO!!!
Does this mean you don’t want to hear about my dates when my BF brought me to the junkyard to help pull off car parts?
nooooooooo….please……noooooooo.
@Moon-howler
Hmmph.
Snob.
🙂
I’d hear your stories, Pink. Try me.