Sharing an e-mail from Eric Byler —
Dear Friends,
Annabel Park and I have a documentary coming out this fall. 9500 Liberty explores the social, political, and economic fallout from one of America’s fiercest battles over immigration policy at the local level. We feel that our film will help illuminate what is really at stake in the upcoming national debate over immigration policy.
Watch our trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlZkL_0lZ1Q
Please share our new website: http://9500liberty.com/
Please join our Facebook group at: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=13491935091&ref=ts
And/or please follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/9500Liberty
Thanks,
Eric Byler & Annabel Park
Great quote Cindy, yes. Pinko, you had a great quote two: John Stirrup: We must get rid of Latinos to “protect our culture.” Frightening.
Rick and GR: which one of you is the Spanish speaker? How do you know what MWB was telling their people? Just curious. How do you know well enough to say “they did!” in response to one of Greg’s accusatoins?
M-H, when I look at those pictures I can feel the sense of being outnumbered. A lot of them. Only one of me. It is understandable why people become afraid when there are a lot of people who aren’t the same as them. This is what minorities are used to. But the people who got behind the Immigration Resolution were not used to it. There was fear to begin with. Greg did not need to use lies to create more fear. Just look at Lafayette’s pictures, and you can understand the fear.
ShellyB – I’ve run stuff from their website through translation tools (free on the web) and it definitely states (at least it did the last time I looked at it) that they were against borders and for the free flow of people back and forth, etc. It’s their words, not mine.
I don’t have to speak any Spanish to be able to click a few buttons, cut/paste a paragraph into any one of the dozens of online translation tools, and get an instant translation.
In fact, I do that every now and then for Chinese filled stuff my wife passes on to me, and it works pretty good for that too!
So that’s how I know what MWB is saying – anything they say in print, I can translate easy enough if I have the time and the inclination to do so. “The marvels of modern technology”!
And M-H, why are we focused so much on MWB anyway. I don’t care if MWB is partial to “socialists” or whatever the scary word of the day is. MWB had no power. All they could do was express defiance and show they had friends who would bus in from nearby places on important days. They were no threat. They had no influence. Even the fear that Gospel Greg used to rally his followers. What was that based on? So what if we can find 3000 immigrants in the DC area? There are a lot of non-immigrants in the DC area too. Shall we be afraid? Look how many showed up for the inauguration. Didn’t scare me. Numbers alone can make you afraid but it is an irrational fear unless you are there in person and then it’s a natural fear. But such things are not political.
The real story was a struggle between 100 people in Help Save Manassas vs. the rest of the people of Prince William County for control of the elected body of governance of this county. That is where the drama was in my opinion. MWB was like the crowd of partisan fans looking on from the upper deck at the coliseum. They had no role other than to shout. The gladiators were members of HSM, members of the BOCS, and the rest of the county who did not share HSM’s interests and did not believe Gospel Greg’s lies.
GR, I did not see your post but my last post pretty much answers it. I don’t see the point in looking for any threats on the MWB website. They are never going to take over our local government as Gospel Greg briefly did in 2007.
@ShellyB
I AM GOING TO TAKE OVER LOCAL GOVERNMENT! BE AFRAID!
Hee hee. Sorry. I just wanted to see what that looked like in print. 🙂
OK, but I still say it is easy to figure out what they’re telling their people – just go to their website, run it through any of a bunch of translation tools available on the web – and you too can figure out exactly what they are saying. Now, I know translation isn’t perfect, but I think it’s good enough. Anyway, you can argue how powerful they are, or what a threat they are, but you can’t argue what they are saying, when the proof is in black and white (or whatever color text they use on their website – I have not looked at it in some time, and just tried to now – but it is blocked here where I work – gee – I wonder why that is?). Doesn’t matter, I don’t have the time to review it here – I barely have the time to keep up with this very active thread – but I read and type fast – and multiask well, so that’s how I’m slightly able to do it.
You know, MWB was a threat to some because they did SEEK to influence our government, even if they failed and were even counterproductive.
The large numbers of people they brought out contributed to a wave of fear among otherwise rational people. Those images of thousands of people shown on the 9500 Liberty site and on the news probably made ordinary citizens think maybe Robert Duecaster is right. We are being invaded. I think we can all agree irrational fear made the policy more popular.
However, I don’t blame MWB for doing what they could to protest. They didn’t have any other means, and they didn’t want to feel completely helpless. It would have been better if they had stayed on the sidelines and allowed ordinary citizens to step forward, which is what we saw the following year when the policy was neutered. I don’t blame them for not having the political sophistication to know their efforts would be counterproductive, and in fact delay the time when the average citizen trapped in the middle would feel safe to come out and oppose this policy.
Also, I don’t blame them for encouraging their followers to speak at Citizens’ Time even though it was clear they didn’t have much of a chance. Would you rather have your community assaulted, insulted, and accused of outrageously unfair things and not say a word in response? If it were me I would have responded whether I had a chance of affecting the Board’s decision or not.
“The real story was a struggle between 100 people in Help Save Manassas vs. the rest of the people of Prince William County for control of the elected body of governance of this county. ”
That’s really insane. I guess when nearly every politician up to and including Charles Colgan said that they wanted to crack down against illegal immigration during the 2006 elections, they were catering to 100 people? I guess I just imagined all those mailers on the subject? And a 9-0 vote by the BOS?
http://www.wusa9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=63866
Charles Colgan/Democrat is the incumbent. He has been in the Virginia State Senate since 1976. He is a past member and chairman of the Prince William County Board of Supervisors; past president, Greater Manassas Chamber of Commerce; member, Park West Lions Club, Knights of Columbus, American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars. He says the most pressing issue facing his district is: “Illegal immigration.”
J.K. “Jay” O’Brien/Republican is the incumbent. He has held this office since 2003. Previously he served in the House of Delegates. He is a retired Colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve. He says illegal immigration is one of the most pressing issues facing the district. Those that live here illegally are flooding emergency services, burdening educational institutions, and straining the courts. That’s why I wrote successful legislation to require proof of legal Virginia residence in order to obtain a driver’s license. I have also written legislation that would allow the state to turn over illegal immigrants arrested for violent felonies to federal authorities. But more must be done. Without action, the lawful residents of Virginia will continue to face dwindling resources and the threat of increased violence.
“Also, I don’t blame them for encouraging their followers to speak at Citizens’ Time ”
Some of those people weren’t even lawful residents though.
GR, It’s not that I disagree with your interpretation of what they were saying. I wondered how you were so certain. I assumed it was because Gospel Greg said so, but you have looked at their website. It would be interesting to know if they were unfairly characterizing our police department as people who would enjoy racial profiling. That would be like Gospel Greg choosing C, D, or E. Except MWB was simply unaware that Chief Deane was doing all he could to avoid racial profiling. They were ignorant. Gospel Greg was not ignorant. He was willfully misleading people in order to manipulate them and manipulate the BOCS.
But my main point is that it didn’t matter. HSM was the one that was literally infiltrating the BOCS (getting inside Stirrup’s body and operating his mouth, and nearly the same for Corey Stewart). That is what concerned me. I never once thought that MWB would succeed in turning the BOCS into socialists.
All true Rick. But once the insanity died down and only the truly insane were still agitated, and the politicians were not under the gun with an election coming up, there was another vote. The vote was 8-0 in the reverse and we gutted the Immigration Resolution.
Now days, the Resolution is little more than a bad reputation based on rhetoric.
ShellyB what really got into the BOCS is they didn’t want to all get BOUNCED ala the Herndon bloodbath back in 2006.
ShellyB – you again try to say that everyone’s brains are taken over by Greg. I am my own person, I do not get my news from Greg. I can form my own opinions, gather my own facts, and interpret things without listening to Greg. In fact, it might surprise you to know that I don’t follow bvbl all that much, have never been to an HSM meeting, am not an HSM member, etc.!
I keep seeing how some people on this blog seem to think a lot of people have had their minds filled with Greg’s ideas. Do you seriously think people can’t think for themself, or that only people who agree with you think for themselves? I know Rick has said he too forms his own opinions without listening to Greg, and I’d like to add myself to that list of independent thinkers. You definitely implied you believed I got my info about MWB from Greg – when it couldn’t be further from the truth. I think you are similarly wrong about how a lot of other people formed their opinions – everyone seems to give Greg too much power, just in the way you seem to think we give MWB too much power. I just find that funny.
I should have said, my post above is due to this piece that ShellyB wrote: “GR, It’s not that I disagree with your interpretation of what they were saying. I wondered how you were so certain. I assumed it was because Gospel Greg said so, but you have looked at their website.”
Again, seems you are assuming that a bunch of mindless people took Greg’s word for everything, and I have a feeling that isn’t really the case. Or, you give Greg too much power, and assume a lot of people are under his spell and take everything he says as fact.
I think the reality is most people get their information from lots of sources, not just one, and don’t just blindly follow someone. Although, personally I think there might be a lot more people buying into some of MWB’s propaganda on this subject.
GR, I wasn’t saying that your brain was taken over by Greg. Stirrups, maybe. But I acknowledged you did some homework by doing automatic translation software stuff. I believe you that you are not a reader of the old blog. You are much too busy on this blog to do both!
Good point that I give HSM too much power while you and others give MWB too much power. I think I am correct, though, that Greg had a lot of influence. Particularly over Corey Stewart and John Stirrup. And I’m not sure to this day if they have had him surgically removed from his brain or not.
But I did not mean to say that about you.
Rick, it is very clear that on a limited basis on a local level, you can demagogue the immigration issue and win elections. But once you start opening it up to larger pools of voters, like Presidential Primary voters, the opposite is true. That is why McCain beat Tancredo and Romney.
The issue only works in certain areas where there is not a lot of diversity. But those areas are not enough to win state or national elections. Remember Dem’s won in 2007 even though much immigration demagoguery was happening.
GR, did you think I meant to say you looked at Greg’s website? I was actually acknowledging that you looked at MWB’s website. Did your homework in other words. Does that clear it up?
But GR, who is buying into MWB’s propaganda? I didn’t even know they HAD a website and I never could have cared if they did. I always knew they were spectators in the political process and that Greg was using them as a boogie man to frighten people. You did some research on it and I’m glad you did. I am not even clear what their propaganda is.
But would it not be safe to say that EVERYONE is very clear on what Gospel Greg’s propaganda is?
Anyway, all your points are well taken. I just wonder why we are talking about MWB so much when they are such a small part of the real story.
I’m watching some of the 9500 videos for idiocy. About 4:00 into this one Patrick Garland says that white people cannot represent him or his Latino students – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzMOcjITvI&feature=channel
@Witness Too
“It would have been better if they had stayed on the sidelines and allowed ordinary citizens to step forward, which is what we saw the following year when the policy was neutered.”
I disagree entirely. They need to have a voice just like everyone else. What they also needed was for “ordinary” citizens to say “Hey…we understand why they are so angry because this resolution is mean-spirited, counter-productive, expensive and a detriment to our communities.”
Finally, remember, when we don’t feel we are being heard, we start to yell. That’s common to all human beings, no matter what issue we are discussing.
It’s all well and good to pick the pro-law side apart but when a guy gets up and says the government doesn’t represent him because he’s black, to heavy applause … put that in your pseudo-documentary.
Actually some of this footage is pretty good – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuvFhB1k3x0&feature=channel
But as time has gone on it has become more obvious that Park and Byler are biased.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090721/world/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly_4
And the speaker right after Mr. D called it a shameful example of fear politics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlh3h2HFGeo&feature=response_watch
Indeed, you are correct, ShellyB – MWB is not a big part of the story. I was only using them as an example of where I have a feeling the 9500 Liberty filmmakers may not have portrayed them accurately, in the clips I’ve seen on their website. I probably got this discussion sidetracked a bit on MWB, away from where the discussion should have been. I would say however, that many of their followers did buy into their propaganda, and probably still are. Anyway, it is a side issue to the larger debate, I’ll agree on that.
I agree that it is going to far to say that an all-white Board should not be able to represent a population that is 40 percent minority. I would have put it differntly. But 9500 Liberty videos, including the ones you chose Rick, allowed both sides to say how they felt with a focus on the most passionate speakers like Duecaster and Garland. Or maybe those were the videos we all focused on. Anyway it was up to us to agree or disagree. We put comments on the videos and that was how we gave the thumbs up or down.
Then everyone demanded that Park and Byler come out and pick a side. They did not side with MWB. They did not side with HSM. They came out right in the middle where most of us are. Then came this blog to allow people in the middle to hash it out. This blog was better for that purpose of allowing a free discussion. It was also better than Greg’s blog because Greg censored people who disagreed with him. Then they all came here and we found out there were many people who disagreed with him. Within a few months, the Resolution was neutered and things went back to normal.
If you are on the extreme you are upset about no more “probable cause.” But even Corey Stewart voted for that. Because he realized that people in the middle didn’t want racial profiling or the appearance of it.
Rick, there is a reason why you are always butting heads with the people on the old blog. They are way too extreme. If you had spoken at Citizens Time, I’m sure you would have sounded more reasonable. But reasonable people were drowned out by shouting people in those days. We needed something to make people feel safe to come out and be in the middle. That’s what this blog succeeded in doing. And after that everything changed.
GR, 9500 Liberty needed something to show on the other side of the issue because early on all they had was HSM and Corey Stewart. But they basically did not cover MWB other than the wall. MWB was a bottom-up organization where the most important message came from the podium at Citizens Time. So after Oct 16, there was a lot from them. 9500 Liberty hardly covered MWB other than Mr. Fernandez’s wall because MWB was not relevant other than putting on big shows that nobody listened to.
“If you had spoken at Citizens Time, I’m sure you would have sounded more reasonable.”
Oh, don’t bet on it. I would have been hopping mad at the spectacle of all these illegal immigrants packed intoi a county hearing play-acting as if they had rights. And at nitwit speakers like this kid full of their ignorant self-congratulatory indignation – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twy8AOKd4RI&feature=channel_page
“Do you realize there was alevery in the US” – yeah I heard about that. Guess what though, I’m not responsible for it.
@Rick Bentley
I don’t think the government represents ME, either. If they do, they have a funny way of showing it.
I disagree that 9500 Liberty came out in the middle of the debate. It doesn’t look that way to me, but I should reserve judgement until the finished film is out.
In the early days of this blog – I disagree that it allowed people to has things out. It does now, but not in the early days. I was on there in the early days, and right from the get-go was attacked as being a “Greg clone” and a bunch of other things. No, it wasn’t a place for people to hash things out – not in the early days unless you agreed with a several loud and vocal posters who engaged in relentless name calling and labeling of people they disagreed with. It is quite different now – or otherwise I would not be on here. Back then though, if that was what this blog was supposed to be about – it didn’t succeed in the initial days. And this blog came across as just as extreme due to all that hate and name calling, and those vocal posters did the blog a disservice, if it’s mission was to have both sides hash things out. It is an interesting re-telling of the history of the blog though! Just leaving out a lot of details about the hate that seemed to exist on this blog, by a vocal subset of its posters, who determined the tone of it early on.
I watched this one – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuEGM_erDno&feature=channel
And I have to say, it appears to me that the woman in question is at the point of tears over free speech existing. That said, I appreciate this blog and I think that it probably has largely succeeded at its presumed purpose (promoting more civil dialogue).
At the top of the blog:
Anti-BVBL
A reasonable voice for Prince William County politics, and the immigration debate
And the blog owner is kind enough to let me post about neighborhood issues in the City of Manassas as well, since they cross jurisdictions.
I am all for more civil dialogue!
It all adds up to an interesting tale though doesn’t it? Who would have ever thought that the fate of a county would be decided by two blogs?
GR, I think that the most angry posters on this blog gave up and quit posting because they were not appreciated by the rest of us. We called them hate bunnies for instance. Or, not to name names, if they were totally against the police no matter WHAT they did, then we gave them the what for.
GR, the middle of the debate was to get rid of “probable cause” but not entirely rescind the Resolution so Corey Stewart could claim victory and not be run out of town on a rail by Gospel Greg and a mob of angry followers. If that is not the middle to you then we are just seeing it from two different POV’s.
@Cindy B
Cindy, that guy was very courageous. He was a veteran and his words always stayed with me.
I think it would probably be fairer to just speak of the Hispanic Community. MWB is fairly defunct and simply served to organize.
Obviously, as the many speaker found out on October 16, it really didn’t matter how many there were or what they said. That vote was a foregone conclusion. I would have rather they just said so up front.
Pinko, I agree and disagree with you. Yes, the Hispanic Community had every right to speak and to speak for themselves. I am glad so many of them came out that night to voice their opinions. I don’t think they should have held back and let others speak for them.
On the other hand… Witness too, I think, said something about the Hispanic Community staying on the sidelines. No, we cannot ask them to do that.
Politics makes strange bed-fellows. Sometimes people just need to be in bed alone. Take that to the bank and run with it.
Eric told me just the other day that there will be 2 public viewings of the documentary in October. Everyone can go check it out for themselves.
I appreciate 9500 Liberty filming so much of what happened. It is sort of hard to deny Cory rolling his eyes when you are watching him do it, or someone at citizen’s time talking about ‘them Mexicans scare me.’
They didn’t always capture what I wanted to see either.
Will Byler and Park be providing a Spanish dubbed version of the film for local audiences, or will their work remain confined to the language of the gringo oppressor?
ShellyB, just to refresh the history here, I came on this blog right after the “probable cause” part was rescinded, and said I was happy with the resolution in its current form (the probable cause rescinded form, for lack of a better way to state it).
There were some posters at the time, that right away said I was a Greg clone, a “hate bunny” (yes, I remember that term), and a bunch of other things. Apparently, thery were seeing things incorrectly then, since I infer from your comments then that the rescinding of probable cause was the “middle ground”. So my memory of things is quite different than your portrayal, where you seem to claim a bunch of “hate bunnies” were on this blog. My memory is there were a bunch of people innocently labeled as “hate bunnies” and far more disgusting terminology, just because they disagreed with some set of posters who were “anti-resolution” for lack of a better word. It doesn’t matter now I suppose, actually.
“We feel that our film will help illuminate what is really at stake in the upcoming national debate over immigration policy”
Bad news, you two. The debate happened in 2006 and 2007. Your side lost.
9500 Liberty – standing on that property you could have seen:
-Thomas Jefferson and his carriage on their way from Monticello
to Washington for his first inauguration.
-Stonewall Jackson’s troops looting a large Federal supply depot
on their way to Second Manassas.
-The first private homes built and owned by Afro-Americans in the area.
-Eastern College being built and sixty years later being torn down.
-The funeral train of FDR on its way from Warm Springs, Ga. to
Washington and the tracks lined by residents to honor the President.
-A playground with the tallest slide in PWC.
-The Manassas Museum plus a lawn full of community activity –
our “Village Green”.
-Fernandez and his darn sign which became a “hook” for a movie
on the larger issue of immigration focused mainly on PWC.
– What’s next?
GR, you are certainly not a hate bunny by any stretch. Hate bunnies leave very short posts with cookie cutter anti-immigrant insults then don’t come back again. And they don’t respond to a rational dialogue. I’m sorry if you were ever called that.
The middle ground is where we ended up. No mandated racial profiling, but an overall attitude of toughness toward illegal immigration. All but the most extreme are happy. I only wish that the second half of the story were known as much as the first half. When racial profiling was hanging in the air, all the news stations came here. When an election was about to happen, all the local stations were immigration this and immigration that.
Then it was pretty quiet when the Resolution got neutered. Worse, Greg and Corey went out and declared their own neutering a victory. Those who were paying close attention called their bluff. I recall Duecaster posting on the old blog “This is no victory! I saw a Hispanic person moving IN. Before they were moving out!” Or something to that effect. But 9500 Liberty and the media let them get away with the spin job and thus most people don’t know the truth:
The Resolution is all paper and no bite. The services that were supposed to be withheld are either not withheld due to overriding state and federal law. Or they are withheld but no one was using they anyway. Racial profiling is now an option, not a mandate. And thanks to Chief Deane’s excellent leadership, no one is doing it. The Resolution has been rescinded in every way except the ceremonial vote to expunge our soiled legislative record. But no one knows. That is why I was disappointed with this trailer. It just rehashes the old debate from 2007 when everyone was excited about the election. I’m sure the film tells the rest of the story. But why not reflect that in the trailer?
Poor Richard, that was a beautiful visual trip through history. We have such a rich history in PWC, don’t we? Another thing you can see great from that property is 4th of July fireworks. In 2008 when the sign was still standing, I was there. The was no bickering at all. People of all colors were enjoying the evening.
ShellyB, getting back to the film – it may indeed be the trailer isn’t a proper representation of it. I’ve often seen trailers that portray a flim differently than it turns out. This trailer seems concentrated on the original debate about the resolution being enacted.
For Poor Richard – I don’t want to get off-topic, but exactly when was there the “playground with the tallest slide in PWC”? That’s the only thing I was unfamiliar with in your interesting list – so maybe you can briefly enlighten me – just out of curiosity – even though it is off-topic.
As to the 4th of July fireworks – I was there this year and 2 years ago. Last year I was going to go but chickened out on account of the rain earlier in the evening. I agree – both times I’ve gone its been a great event. But last year – if the sign was visible from some vantage points of the event – depending which exact message it was carrying at the time (since it has carried several different messages) don’t you think that would seem to at the very least dampen the mood of a 4th of July celebration? In a way, maybe I’m glad I didn’t end up going last year – and having to see that sign – but I’m not sure if I would have ended up someplace that the sign was visible – as there are a lot of places to view the fireworks downtown. Depending on the message at the time, what kind of impression does anyone think it made on people visiting the city? For one thing, the resolution was in the county, yet at times the sign referred specifically to the city. In any event, I don’t think the sign’s message was appropriate for a holiday like the 4th, but I know a lot of people may disagree with my point of view on it!
Actually, I’m not sure I agree with your statement, ShellyB, that all but the most extreme are happy with the resolution in its current form. I came onto the blog right after the probable cause was rescinded, and I recall a lot of people on the blog – maybe just a vocal minority – I don’t know – who were still quite unhappy with it in its present form and wanted it repealed entirely. Are you saying those people – that maybe vocal miniority – were part of the “most extreme group” – since they were on the “anti-resolution” side. I’d wager there’s some people still on the blog here who are not happy with the resolution in its current form and would like to see it rescinded completely. I dont’ disagree that it isn’t much in its current form, although in your own words “The middle ground is where we ended up. No mandated racial profiling, but an overall attitude of toughness toward illegal immigration. All but the most extreme are happy.” What confuses me then is what I saw on this blog back then, where at least some subset of posters on the “anti-resolution” side were NOT happy that the resolution wasn’t entirely rescinded.
It may be a subtle point, but I never got the feeling that there were a lot of people who were all that happy with the outcome of just probable cause being rescinded. Maybe I just misinterpreted what people were writing at the time, and I suppose it isn’t that important now. Although, it is important in the context of how 9500 Liberty will portray it, actually – what their take will be on how people felt about the resolution after probable cause was rescinded.
GR, I think all of us who opposed “probable cause” would have preferred that the whole ugliness never happened. That would mean no grandstanding by Letiecq and Stewart, no huge rallies, no wall with an accusatory message, and no Youtube videos showing our dirty laundry to the world. But given that we were faced with our elected officials and our tax money AND our police force going in a direction that was bad for the county, we were very happy to see “probable cause” rescinded. It’s like the end of a costly and bloody war with no honorable purpose. You are sorry it happened, but you are happy it ended. The repeal of “probable cause” was like an armistice.
I wouldn’t call someone extreme for posting on here they wish the vote had been to rescind the “whole Resolution” instead of changing it in a way that made it legally castrated and harmless. Except that it is to the “left” of where the people on this blog were.
Gainesville Resident,
Use to take my children there and the chief attraction
on the playground was the slide, almost three stories high.
It was torn down twenty years ago when construction started on
the museum. (Like high dives on most community pools, public
playground slides that high are a thing of the past due to liability).
Have a visual image of Thomas Jefferson rounding the corner
onto Prince William Street just as the July 4th fireworks start.
Manassas – “Rich In Historic Interest”.
I think the people who remained very upset about the Resolution after it was legally castrated are the ones who just do not trust the police no matter what their policy is. There were a number of sketchy situations that seemed like racial profiling going on. They may or may not have been. But the truth was that things like this were already happening before the Resolution. People were just extra sensitive. Understandably so. But their idea was that if the Resolution was legally removed from the books, that the questionable traffic stops would stop. That is a bit extreme. Because they are not seeing the big picture that these kinds of traffic stops happen all the time and were only interpreted as racial profiling because of poisoned race relations in the county at that time.
Thanks Poor Richard as usual for the interesting historical info. That’s funny about your image of Thomas Jefferson too!
ShellyB – I am sure you’re right about what you say regarding the traffic stops, and that there’s always going to be those, with or without any resolution. And, I don’t doubt that the resolution helped cause people to interpret those stops as racial profiling. If those people thought that police would magically stop pulling people over for things like burnt out taillights, etc., then they would be disappointed .Sometimes a traffic stop for a burnt out taillight is just that – and nothing more, even if people want to believe it to be more. Unless you can demonstrate a pattern over time that a disproportionate amount of people of a certain ethnic group (or groups) are being pulled over, you can’t say it is racial profiling just because someone is of that ethnic group.
I have yet to see anyone prove via statistics that racial profiling was going on while the “probable cause” rule was in effect. Now, it could be argued that was a short period of time, but I have a feeling if the statistics were there to bear that out, someone would have presented those by now. In the absence of it, I can only infer that racial profiling did NOT happen during that period of time. It’s been well over a year now, so I would think that would have been ample time to prove that racial profiling did occur, if it had.