Talk amongst yourselves, in the words of Mike Meyers.
105 Thoughts to “Open Topic”
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The grandfather on Lafeyette Avenue deserved to get tazed if the story is as the police said. And it is absurd of that family to throw a party using giant rented loudspeakers in a small backyard – which is seen on their own video. I hope for more, not less, tazings in PWC.
And I certainly hope that the possibly pregnant woman gets deported, if she is here illegally which her own family seems to be acknowledging.
This is hardly coming (sneaking?) in to America and laying low – throwing a loud party in their backyard with loudspeakers, annoying neighbors for blocks around, and being drunkenly belligerant with police when they attempt to quell the noise. Nice. Apparently the mother will end up deported as a result of what happened at her own children’s baptism party. No tears from me.
I’m referring to this story – http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/family_police_used_excessive_force_at_baptism_party/40364/P20/
I agree, those giant loudspeakers are a dead giveaway that the part was not a “quiet family gathering” as some articles in the press has portrayed it. You don’t use giant loudspeakers to make music that can only be heard in a small backyard like that property has.
It is that kind of lack of consideration for neighbors, that is a real problem. The house next to me – they thought nothing of cranking up their stereo at 2 AM in the morning in the middle of the week. I never did figure out how any of the 10+ people living there ever got any sleep. You’d think a boarding house with people coming/going at all hours of the day and night (presumably to work) would need it to be quiet – so that sort of defied logic. In any event, it puzzles me how anyone can look at that video and not conclude that party had to have been very loud. All the police wanted them to do was turn down the music, but instead they and the press are making this into some huge police brutality issue. They obviously put up resistance, were drunk and didn’t cooperate with the police, which led to the tazing. By now you would think people would know to just do what the police ask of you, especially when it is a simple request to “turn down the music”. The police seemed to have sent an officer who spoke Spanish, so it is kind of inconcievable that the request wasn’t made in Spanish. Maybe they were just too drunk to understand.
As to the possible deportation – once someone enters the jail, they are then apparently subject to that 287(g) program, and I suppose ICE will prioritize based on severity of the crime. So, at that point, no one can really put that on the PWC Police, who were just doing their job and arrested those people when things got out of control. If they had just turned down the music as requested, none of this would have happened. One would think if the people knew that some of their guests were illegal aliens, they would have been a lot more cooperative with the police, to avoid getting arrested and subject to the 287(g) program. Instead, the police are getting painted in an unfair light – and I think that is just wrong.
The last thing we needed is another thing in the news that makes our county and our police force look bad to the outside world. I think this is a tragedy for this family trying to celebrate a baptism. And what a horrible thing for the children to see. But I would not want to jump on the PWC police force for anything untoward with all the unnecessary and unfortunate baggage they have had to carry due to the Immigration Resolution.
From the news story I will say that the music is not loud enough to drown out children’s voices. I have a feeling that the person who called in the complaint might have been bothered more by their eyes than their ears. Just a hunch based on comments I’ve read on blogs where people are upset that too many people at the public parks were non-white.
Note to PWC police: If you respond to a noise complaint and the occupants are nonwhite, just move along.
Notice how the video shows the moments before the police arrive, and then cuts to the tazing. Nice editing, but how about some coverage of the confrontation that led to the tazing? Oh that’s right, we here in PWC taze first and ask questions later don’t we, especially if the people in question are Hispanic, or at least that’s what the video wants you to believe. What’s with Fox News showing a video that obviously left out the reason for the tazing in the first place! Neighbors need to start video documenting these types of disturbances so that both sides of the story can be revealed.
The video S-A mentioned:
http://www.myfoxchico.com/dpp/news/dpgo_grandpa_pregnant_mom_tasered_at_party_20090729_2708934
The lots in this community are not large enough to have speakers blaring for hours. It causes a problem for neighbors in all directions.
Much is not being said or shown. I am going to wait for the internal affairs report before I come to conclusions. I find some of the allegations to be rather questionable, given the professional standards of our police dept. here in PWC.
My first thought was the health of the baby the mother was carrying when she was shocked. My second thought was how anti-Hispanic people would seize upon this. My third thought was how the Latino community would probably interpret this as another reason why they can’t rely on the police to protect them. This is a sad event all around. I hope at least the baby is okay.
So Shelly, no thoughts of why the confrontation? Your mind automatically assumes the police arrive and taze people for no reason? How about kicking in both sides of your mind, you know the other half that abhors bad behavior by your neighbor. One of the excuses given at first was that they didn’t understand what the office requested, blaming it on bad language communications. The first officer to arrive spoke fluent Spanish, and the son obviously speaks English well. The reason for the extra police is because the group became confrontational, but you won’t see that part on the home video!
Note to PWC Police Part II: If a complainant is white, and the neighbor is nonwhite, ALWAYS assume the call is racially motivated and simply ignore it.
“The last thing we needed is another thing in the news that makes our county and our police force look bad to the outside world.”
If it makes illegal aliens think that a different county is more welcoming, I’m actually for it.
“I think this is a tragedy for this family trying to celebrate a baptism. And what a horrible thing for the children to see.”
Yes, but whose fauilt is it? Deportation of a parent is bad for a child too but can we agree that having a child does not give one immunity against the law.
“My first thought was the health of the baby the mother was carrying when she was shocked.”
The police are saying she’s not pregnant. It’s important to remember that with this incident, as with other incidents that activist pro-law groups like to jump in front of cameras and publicize, that lies and deliberate disinformation are told to garner sympathy. She’s apparently not pregnant, but saying that she was put a nice spin on the story, didn’t it.
“My second thought was how anti-Hispanic people would seize upon this. ”
Deliberately, and with malice toward our laws.
“My third thought was how the Latino community would probably interpret this as another reason why they can’t rely on the police to protect them.”
Suits me. My conscience is clear and I’m guessing the police’s is as well. The story “drunk belligerant man refuses to show ID to police responding to noise complaint at outdoor party in residential neighborhood” doesn’t have quite the strongest ring to it but that’s what happened. Happens to English-speaking citizens all the time without making headlines – unless it’s a black Harvard professor who’s a friend of the President.
“This is a sad event all around. I hope at least the baby is okay.
Turns out there is no baby. There ARE two kids whose mom is going to get deported. It’s sad but it’s ENTIRELY of her own doing.
The sense of entitlement here makes me angry. We need a bilingual police force nowadays so that people like this can live here without even knowing the m-f-ing language of this land. Then when the officers at taxpayers cost DO speak Spanish to these people, they not only remain belligerant but complain about the quality of the Spanish or something.
I don’t know exactly what happened here, first-hand, but I do know that these people diaplay a gigantic sense of unearned entitlement when they claim that the language barrier is some type of excuse for disobeying police when they are rather obviously provoking the neighborhood. You can taze them high and hard for all I care.
“My second thought was how anti-Hispanic people would seize upon this. ”
Deliberately, and with malice toward our laws.
When i said this I was reading too quickly. I don;t know any “anti-Hispanic” people. I read incorrectly as antirule of law people.
Question, which method of arrest would place the police in the better light: 1) three police officers wrestling a drunken person to the ground while the person is kicking, screaming, creating a YouTube moment, and possibly biting while the police try to avoid injury to the person and themselves. Or 2) tazing the person’s butt and simply throwing them in the back of a police car.
I’m thinking the family would select option 1 so as to enhance the impression of police abuse, while getting the most sympathy from their friends and bleeding hearts. I’ll take number two as the most humane way of dealing with an uncooperative and confrontational drunk no matter what the occasion.
Sign of the times dept.:
– 2009 our local paper features a “fugitive of the week”.
– 1959 the paper had a “cow of the month” (Prince William Dairy
Herd Improvement Association)- July honors went to “Pansy”.
Definitely a simpler life in 1959 it sounds like.
Of course much of what is now Lake Ridge was also the Woodbridge airport just a few years after Pansy made her debut. Much of that area also had cattle grazing on it.
Shellyb, you planning on reading that report from internal investigations that Chief Deane ordered up?
I don’t necessarily believe everything I see and read, especially when I see and read 2 distinctly different interpretations of the same event. I suggest we wait until we have facts before wading in up to our noses.
The dark screen has jumped in on several police incidents before knowing all the facts. I wouldn’t want to end up looking foolish like they have in the past.
Moon-howler,
– Woodbridge airport was “interesting” to use because the main
runway went up and own a hill.
– The Wellington area of Manassas is located where the Johnson
Dairy farm use to be — many folks still remember stopping on
Clover Hill Road while Joe’s cows crossed to and from the barn.
(Joe Johnson was one of the key people in getting the PWC Fair
started after WW II).
This is f-n stupid. The existence of load-speakers is proof enough. I’ve experienced these “kid” parties first hand on numerous occasions and have called the cops a few times. Unless you’ve actually experienced one of these parties personally, you have no idea how OBNOXIOUSLY loud they are.
These “kid” parties they throw for baptisms, b-days, sweet 16’s, etc. border on a level of retardedness I can’t begin to understand. They go until the wee hours of the morning, involve copious amounts of alcohol, have kids running around barely supervised if at all, and BLAIR MUSIC THROUGH CONCERT LOUDSPEAKERS FOR CHRIST SAKES!!! WTF?!?!
@ ShellyB
If you’ve never experienced one of these OBNOXIOUS gatherings in YOUR neighborhood, you should really STFU.
Incidents like this occur between police and civilians happen all the time. When race is involved, some people tend to blow things out of proportion. It reminds me of adolescents who have nascent issues about sex raucously overreacting to a exploitative car commercial because they have so outlets to discuss the source of their insecurity and preoccupation.
And, by the way, jumping to conclusions based on the size of loud speakers is about as “stupid” as a certain President jumping to conclusions based on hearing only one side of the story.
There is no reason to celebrate this unfortunate event for 99.9 percent of Prince William County. The only winners are those who want our police department discredited and want the Hispanic community to feel unwelcome here.
While I would normally agree with waiting for all the facts to come out – I just have to believe that music was very loud. No one sets up huge loudspeakers like that to play “quiet music”. And, I’ve seen the same kinds of things back at my old neighborhood, and the music was “shake the rafters” loud. I have no doubt in my mind the music in this case was just as bad. As to the police interaction, I believe the police when they say a Spanish speaking police officer was sent, and in that case there’s no reason they shouldn’t have complied with the simple “turn the music down” request without any further confrontation.
I’ve had a fair amount of experience in this department, admittedly with the City of Manassas police. I quite often complained about the 24/7 loud music emanating from the house next to my townhouse. The City of Manassas police – when I called would ask if the residents were Hispanic, I would say yes – and that seemed to be for the purpose of making sure a Spanish speaking police officer was sent. As soon as he came, knocked on their door, and the door was answered, after a short exchange the music was turned down. Now, admittedly it never stayed turned down for long, but at least it never escalated in the way it did in this case. I think the reason for that probably is for one thing, it sounds like alchohol was involved, and drunk people can become quite antagonistic at times. Again, it comes down to, when the police ask you to do something that is not unreasonable (asking someone to turn down loud music isn’t unreasonable) you should just comply and not put up an argument. I suspect if that had happened, we would never have heard about this incident. And, I’m sure that video was taken when the music had been turned down. It is not credible that someone would use those huge loudspeakers to play soft music, in a fairly small backyard area. Not credible at all.
Alamo, I think you should not comment. You are the one who famously complained that you saw too many Hispanics at the park. Your bias is showing. It’s always showing. But on this occasion worse than usual.
M-H, I was hoping to wait for Chief Deane’s report before commenting, but I did not want the rest of the community to think this blog is an infected with prejudicial conclusion jumpers as the old blog was.
While I would normally agree with waiting for all the facts to come out – I just have to believe that music was very loud. No one sets up huge loudspeakers like that to play “quiet music”. And, I’ve seen the same kinds of things back at my old neighborhood, and the music was “shake the rafters” loud. I have no doubt in my mind the music in this case was just as bad. As to the police interaction, I believe the police when they say a Spanish speaking police officer was sent, and in that case there’s no reason they shouldn’t have complied with the simple “turn the music down” request without any further confrontation.
I’ve had a fair amount of experience in this department, admittedly with the City of Manassas police. I quite often complained about the 24/7 loud music emanating from the house next to my townhouse. The City of Manassas police – when I called would ask if the residents were Hispanic, I would say yes – and that seemed to be for the purpose of making sure a Spanish speaking police officer was sent. As soon as he came, knocked on their door, and the door was answered, after a short exchange the music was turned down. Now, admittedly it never stayed turned down for long, but at least it never escalated in the way it did in this case. I think the reason for that probably is for one thing, it sounds like alchohol was involved, and drunk people can become quite antagonistic at times. Again, it comes down to, when the police ask you to do something that is not unreasonable (asking someone to turn down loud music isn’t unreasonable) you should just comply and not put up an argument. I suspect if that had happened, we would never have heard about this incident. And, I’m sure that video was taken when the music had been turned down. It is not credible that someone would use those huge loudspeakers to play soft music, in a fairly small backyard area. Not credible at all.
I hate that once again, everything seems to be seen through ‘racial eyes.’ Is it possible for people to play loud music and to drink at parties where race doesn’t factor in? Is it possible nowadays for the cops to bust parties and some group not get their toes stepped on?
We (anti blog) did not take a stand on this issue. We were not there, although I had been down that street earlier in the day. I have no clue what happened. I WAS NOT THERE.
I take the same stand on this that I took on the Gates-Gate situation: If you are told by law enforcement to do something, unless it is illegal or immoral, just comply. If you think you were being wronged, file a complaint. Get a lawyer. Document. Get witnesses. Use your cell phone camera capacity as well as recording.
Some people think otherwise. Those are the people who usually end up very disappointed, tasered, in jail or otherwise. The bottom line continues to be, who owns the power? Who has the badge and gun?
@Last best hope, you are totally correct:
And in every case, someone thinks they are right and the other guy is wrong.
I don’t think I’m seeing it in terms of race. The problems are language and culture. The language barrier is used as an excuse by some Latinos not to follow the law and to get away with things that most of us can’t get away with.
In this case the homeowner felt entitled to keep music blaring out of commercial-grade loudspeakers, and is using language issues to rationalize why he should be allowed to do this and not respond properly when police ask him to turn it down.
I was personally affected by this once, years ago. I made a home purchase. It was signed and done. Then, the (Latino) owners decided they didn’t want to sell after all. The claimed they hadn’t understood that the sale was to be final, and wouldn’t move out. They at one point barricaded the door against home inspectors. Some shyster lawyer took their case. I was faced with litigating this and not buying a home for my family for possibly years (without forfeiting down payment)or moving on. we moved on (this was in 2000), they kept the house, they eventually sold it for more money. Language used as a weapon to not follow the law, not play by the same rules as the English speakers.
(The implicit threat was that the realty company – same company for the selling and buying agents – would get bad publicity for evicting these poor people who didn’t understand they were selling the house, that they had been defrauded. The real backstory was simply that their daughter didn’t want to move out of the house and threw a fit).
Good lord–is this county EVER going to stop getting on national news because of the resolution? We wouldn’t have even been a blip on the radar had it not been for the stupidity of that inane decision back in the day.
How utterly embarrassing.
There’s no reason this party couldn’t have been treated a regular neighborhood problem. Now it has become a media event.
“because of the resolution”?????? Some jagoffs put industrial-grade speakers in their backyard and have a drunken party, then get belligerant when the police come, and get tased – the resolution is to blame?
it’s a media event because the family is making it one. They play into it hoping that the mother won’t get deported. But she darned well should be deported.
How would the police response have been any different if there had been no such thing as the resolution? This has nothing to do with the resolution whatsoever. It appears to me it was treated as a regular neighborhood problem – there was a noise complaint made to the police, and they came and requested the loud music be turned down. That probably happens a lot all over the country, and there’s nothing irregular about it.
@Rick Bentley
If it weren’t for the resolution and PWC’s history, this wouldn’t have become a national story, no matter who initiated it. And if the family was really out of order, perhaps they would not have been so defensive had it not been for the resolution and hate groups. I’m NOT excusing poor behavior on anyone’s part if there was poor behavior, mind you. I am saying our history has created a boiling pot for this kind of thing. The resolution and groups like HSM running the county government created paths that lead to social unrest and racial problems.
As for big speakers….bigger doesn’t mean anything. I’m not saying the party wasn’t loud. I am saying speakers don’t equal evidence.
GR, the police response wouldn’t have been any different–I agree. I am talking purely about media response and why the racial aspect of the incident has come into play, whether it should come into play or not. I agree there was nothing irregular about police responding to a loud music complaint.
I think the whole thing would have gone down the same way if not for the Resolution. Although the ugly climate of hatred and suspicion toward Latino families may have played into the decision to make the 911 call in the first place. The police would have responded the same way. They are not trained to be impacted by the poisonous situation in the community they serve. The real impact I think comes when people assume this is race related, because of that climate. And that climate was fostered in order to support the Immigration Resolution. The real issues were not enough. Gospel Greg and his minions had to go and makes things up to scare the old people.
Oh Jeeze, is it really a national story? I hadn’t seen it. It is? That is horrible. We can’t catch a break.
@ShellyB
Yeah,Fox got hold of it, apparently.
I’m going to ask this question because my husband and I are the owners of cheap and very small speakers. If you go to a rental agency for your party equipment, what size speakers are available? If you borrow them from a friend, are you going to picky about the size speaker he/she offers? I had a neighbor who lived about 200 yards from me who showed me a set of speakers a friend had loaned him. They were probably concert-size – about 5 or 6 feet tall. I’m sure he cranked them up once in a blue moon but we never heard them. I’m sure that noise is more determined by the volumn control than by speaker size -as well as being detemined by neighbors who may or may not have legitimate complaints. I’ll wait for the internal affairs report as well.
Rick, your neighbors don’t have to be Hispanic to back out on a commitment to sell their house. We went through the same thing when the interest rates were 14-15% in the early 80s. The seller had two other houses in which to live and we had just sold our house earlier that day. We went to the walk-through and found their clothes in the dryer, their furniture unmoved, and heels firmly planted. We threatened a specific performance lawsuit and the real estate agents threatened liens for their commissions. It took two months to get the sellers to settle. The only saving grace was that the lawyer had invested our down payment wisely and we didn’t suffer financially. I think these situations occur more frequently than we think they do.
“I am saying our history has created a boiling pot for this kind of thing. ” My pot was boiling well before the resolution debate, fueled not by xenophobia or by “hate”, but by what was happening to and in my neighborhood.
Censored, that may be – but my life was impacted in a very large, real way by the phenomenon which I see all around me these days – two Americas, two sets of rules.
Censored, where did you live in the meantime?
Pinko, the media attention is because the family obviously contacted Univision. Local fox is who first aired the story on English TV, not Fox News.
Pinko, so what you are saying is that the Immigration Resolution has created, in the span of 2 years, a facsimile, with regard to Hispanics, of the centuries old history of racial tension and racial profiling between American law enforcement toward African Americans?
I believe this history was the cause of the overblown reaction from Professor Gates toward Officer Crowley, Obama’s unwise comment, and the media’s overblown coverage of that case. But I should hope that PWC and Hispanics have not sunk to that level due to a relatively minor dust up of racial tension contained within a single election cycle. That would truly be unfair.
I agree. Rick and Mando, you are getting way too obsessed about size! Size does not matter. Any woman will tell you it’s the volume and the frequency that count. Please, relax about size.
Thank goodness it’s not Fox “News.” I would hate to see our county being used to racially divide the nation again. That was one of the saddest parts of the whole deal in 2007. Because we became famous and so many people felt sorry for us. Really it was not our fault, it was only a few extremists making all the noise plus Corey and Greg going on TV.
Rick, we know there were some neighborhood issues to deal with. You are good at describing them and we fully sympathize. But why did Gospel Greg have to preach propaganda like Hispanics cause leprosy and are socialists with machine guns and ski masks? And why focus on the supposed immigration status of the people who appear to be Hispanic instead of the behaviors that are bothering you. It was a mean trick to make it so that something invisible like legal status was bothering you. Remember when it was just the housing overcrowding and lack of parking that bothered you?
You know, not long ago a neighbor two doors down had a graduation party and they had a wonderful country style band playing in the back yard. The speakers were VERY large and I was not at all intimidated.
I poured myself a glass of sweet tea and watched from my deck and clapped between songs. The lead singer even tipped his hat to me. I never thought to call the police. It was the middle of the afternoon and the live music was a treat.
“why did Gospel Greg have to preach propaganda like Hispanics cause leprosy ”
Tuberculosis. You think that’s not real?
“and are socialists with machine guns and ski masks?”
Some are. Including some of the ones connected to “Mexicans Without Borders”.
“And why focus on the supposed immigration status of the people who appear to be Hispanic instead of the behaviors that are bothering you.”
Inherently by overcrowding houses these people are degrading quality of life. And inherently by using false identification they are bypassing the safety net Americans tried to create to protect us from pedophiles, violent criminals, gang members, rapists, etc. It’s not the “Hispanic” part that bothers me, it’s the “illegal” part.
Sadly, that last post shows you are still in the grips of the past, Rick. All of those things are connected only in once place. Gospel Greg’s warped reality which he uploads onto his blog.
I say the past because I don’t think Gospel Greg is still trying to brainwash people on most of this drivel. Or if he is few are paying attention. His new thing is hatred of women, not Latinos.
“You know, not long ago a neighbor two doors down had a graduation party and they had a wonderful country style band playing in the back yard. The speakers were VERY large and I was not at all intimidated.”
I’m glad you weren’t intimidated, but in my case, I work and require at least a few hours of sleep. I’m fairly forgiving, so in the instances I’ve called the cops, it’s been after midnight. I wouldn’t have cared if it were just a boom box or even house speakers. But what you don’t get nor appreciate is what those loud speakers are capable of. Try sleeping with someone blaring a stereo in your bedroom. That’s what it’s like.
I can emphasize with the neighbors that called the cops in Westgate. I know what those loudspeakers are for. You would rather blame it all on “Gospel Greg” or Corey Stewart and call everyone a racist. You’re stuck in your own little fantasy land when the rest of us are dealing with this crap on a regular basis. You and your ilk might as well be telling us to eat cake as far as I’m concerned.
I don’t hate Hispanics. I hate no one based on race or color.
It’s the same crap every time I look at this forum. Rick and others having to establish that they are not racists OVER AND OVER because their opinion and experience differs from yours and others here. It’s tedious, ridiculous, and pointless.
For that reason I’ve come to despise most of you.
“I say the past because I don’t think Gospel Greg is still trying to brainwash people on most of this drivel. Or if he is few are paying attention. His new thing is hatred of women, not Latinos.”
WTF is it with you and Greg Leteicq? Scorned lover? You’re a broken record.
Moon-howler, we rented my parents’ basement for two months and put our household crapola in storage. My husband and I, two cats, one dog, a large contingent of camel crickets which the cats would kill and deposit on the bed, coexisted for two months in that dank space.
Mando, the problem with your and Rick’s argument is that I’ve experienced very similar problems in several neighborhoods where I’ve lived, and none of the problems were caused by Hispanics – just by an assortment of good old boys or druggies. And none of the problems would have been solved by your resolution since the scofflaws were citizens. In my experience it’s usually a clash of socio-economic levels, education, upbringing with a dash of “I’m finally out on my own for the first time” thrown in.
No Censored, my issue is with PEOPLE blaring music through LOUDSPEAKERS in a residential area. Some here automatically jump to the conclusion that simply because the perpetrators are Hispanic, the victim was a racist.
Some here are ACTIVELY race-baiting. ShellyB is notorious:
Race-baiter ShellyB said:
“I have a feeling that the person who called in the complaint might have been bothered more by their eyes than their ears.”
Slightly off the current topic; the S&P closed today above 1000. My 401(k) is now at its base level.