The continual scorched earth policy used on President Obama continues. In a phone conference with multi-denominational religious leaders Mr. Obama told listeners:
“I know there’s been a lot of misinformation in this debate, and there are some folks out there who are frankly bearing false witness…[F]abrications…have been put out there to stop people from meeting a core moral and ethical obligation that we look out for one another … that I am my brother’s keeper, my sister’s keeper, and in the wealthiest nation on earth we are neglecting to live up to that call.”
President Obama has been accused of playing the God card and the right wing argument has now turned to keeping church and state separate. Every president has spoken with the religious leaders of the nation. This behavior fits in with tradition. So what’s the beef?
Apparently President Obama made reference to scripture when he spoke of ‘his brother’s keeper.’ Sorry, that doesn’t cut it in the preaching department. The Bible is also literature and educated people use scriptural references continually in every day language. It is rarely confused with proselytizing.
The only thing left to pick at is when Obama speaks of moral and ethical obligations. Religion owns neither of these terms. Some of the most ethical and moral people in history have not been noted for their religious beliefs, if they even had any. An atheist can be moral and ethical.
The moral and ethical consideration of health care reform is a huge one. When millions do not have basic health care coverage, we need to look at ourselves as a nation. No, we don’t have to adopt Great Britain’s plan, Canada’s plan, France’s plan, or anyone’s plan for that matter. What we can do is look at the good parts of each, and see how we might work them into our own program.
The Republicans had 8 years to revamp health care. They did nothing. They need to stop their whining and their reindeer games. They need to stop obstructionist politics.
And the Democrats had their eight years to revamp healthcare, and it was an epic failure. They need to stop their whining and listen to the people. His approval ratings are dropping for a reason.
And they don’t need any Republican votes to revamp healthcare. They have a majority in both houses. The problem really is the division within the Democratic Party itself. Why aren’t they all falling in line? Or is it just because they don’t want to take all the blame if the program doesn’t work as promised?
What does it matter if Republican play “obstructionist” politics? Last I looked, libs were shouting through bullhorns that they won and conservatives lost. And they’re right! We can’t “obstruct” anything! Dems have the votes in both houses and the White House! Obstructionist…..puh-lease!!!
As far as I’m concerned, Obama can invoke God all he wants! The notion of God passing Obama’s lips is so unbelievably disingenuous , that it only drops more bombs on his agenda, which is in ruins anyway. See what happens when you elect a wholly unqualified “community organizer” to the White House? I seem to recall that if any time Palin or Bush mentioned God, the left messed their drawers. But it’s OK for Obama, right? I have to tell you, watching Obama trip over himself for the last few months has been great. But don’t for one second blame Republicans, we don’t have the votes to stop the Dems!! Next excuse, please!
Funny how the “We won, you lost, so shut up” chorus died down once they actually got to work and realized that their own party was just as corrupt and self-interested as the opposition. If healthcare fails, it will be because the Democrats let it fail. They’re losing the victory momentum fast.
“Change you can deceive in.”
Nice of you guys to stay up so late to respond. I don’t think Obama did use ‘God,’ which was my only point.
For a middle man type person, this looks very different than it does to a liberal or conservative. Don’t forget, when I am not watching cnbc, I watch Fox News as a study in the shaping of minds in America. Too bad I am not working on a PHD. I have some wonderful thesis material.
Oh, one more thing. Republicans had 8 years to fix health care. Where on God’s Green Earth did THAT come from? It was never a Republican objective! It’s like saying I, Slowpoke Rodriguez, the slowest mouse in all Mexico, had 8 years to learn how to replace the timing chain on a 1975 Buick, and I failed. SOOOO? Now I agree that health care needs incremental reforms, including tort reform (I heard someone trying to defend Obama’s protection of trial lawyers today, it was SUPER Terrible), but what the Dems are trying for is a huge power-grab, and it has ZERO to do with improving health care in this nation.
There are many people who have “core moral and ethical” issues with late-term abortions and with funding abortions overseas. Since when does Obama get to be the arbiter of all things moral and ethical?
Up late thanks to jetlag.
Just for Slow – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXJv5-L6FwM
Slow, why are the Republicans now coming up with plans? That’s where it came from. I have heard several and they contain some good ideas. Too bad they weren’t presented when the Republicans could have been on the offensive rather than playing defense. I was thinking about them being pro-active rather than what is happening now.
Emma, Are you speaking of the Mexico City policy? Where did that come from? And how does it differ from people who oppose the death penalty or who are morally opposed to war? Those people sure don’t get any line item vetoes.
I think by virtue of the fact that he is president of the United States Obama gets to be the arbiter of some things moral and ethical, as did Bush. Don’t you think that it is an implied obligation of the president to set the tone for things moral and ethical?
Absolutely not. He is a political leader who should be guided by the Constitution. Not in a million years do I want his version of morals and ethics shoved down my throat, any more than I wanted the morals and ethics of the far religious right several years ago. Always thin ice when these guys start spouting religion, and there is always an agenda.
You know, his quote also reflects a secular humanist’s view of the world. I don’t think he was necessarily playing the “God” card, he was reflecting on how humanity should treat one another (which happens to reflect most religious teachings).
That is not religion to me either. Religion doesn’t have total ownership of morals and ethics.
All presidents reflect American morals and ethics.
Emma, you don’t think that Americans should look out for one an another? I think that one goes back to the nation’s beginnings. HOW we achieve looking out for each other might differ over time, but not that we should not care.
No president can be guided by the Constitution only. The Constitution is only a tiny part of obligation of a president. It provides the framework and guidelines only.
This is just more partisan grousing and fingerpointing.
He is fundamentally right that we are our brother’s/sister’s keeper. However, trying to establish this moral groundwork for a program that even the CBO has found to be fiscally irresponsible is disingenuous. Moral imperatives have provided justification for all kinds of outrages over the years, from reckless spending programs all the way to genocides.
Obama’s description of himself as his brother’s keeper displays a certain hypocrisy, given that he has a half brother living in a hut in Kenya with mud floors and an illegal-alien aunt living in public housing in Boston and fighting deportation.
The bible verse implies personal responsibility, not government responsibility. The Obamas are millionaires who could easily provide some assistance to their relatives, but choose not to do so. Rather than accepting personal responsibility, the Obamas would rather reach into my pocket to take care of auntie (and probably the brother in Kenya too).
American presidents usually do have moral authority, so long as they are not too hypocritical, but Americans will not follow a phony. We will see if Obama turns out to have any moral authority or not.
Since I don’t believe any politician can possibly represent God, I have never fallen into the trap of incorporating their platitudes into my spiritual practices or philosophies.
I would suggest we keep religion out of politics. If politicians want to practice their religion, then please do, as I respect diverse belief systems and even encourage them. But please stick to the Constitution when making laws, since there is so much division between religious people and the way they believe politics should operate. Our leaders should listen to faith communities, but they should never make decisions based on their personal beliefs.
Amen, Pinko 🙂
@Emma
🙂
Pinko, I would have to agree with you but I don’t think you addressed the question. Did Obama play the God card? I think that we first have to look at his audience: spiritual leaders of many different denominations. Should these people in particular not be somewhat sensitive to core moral and ethical obligations?
To me that a religious statement. Bow your heads and let’s pray is religious.
I would say that it is not a “core moral and ethical obligation” to pass this particular piece of legislation as written.
I am confused, aren’t the Republicans always bemoaning our lack of religious intensity in the country and reminding people who sue over religion in public schools that our country was created by Christians?
However, the credo that we take care of our bretheren is a moral and ethical value, one we should ALL adhere to, regardless of religion.
@Moon-howler
I can’t really tell. Being your brothers’ and sisters’ keeper isn’t specifically Chritian, though the phrase comes from the Bible. It seems like a general “love thy neighbor” or “golden rule” kind of statement to me, an allusion that would make sense to the Christians in our nation. What if GW Bush made that statement? I am not sure I would take it as inflicting Christianity on us.
I agree that some legislation is ethical and some is not, but the way it is written makes the difference between concept and implementation. Careless authoring can cause horrific results no matter how good the intent.
Kelly, I don’t think the Obamas are under any obligation to take care of every distant relative that hangs on to his coattails. I am rolling my eyes over that one. That goes in the birther column.
I do think that providing for others as a nation is part of a moral imperative. On a more basic level, the fact that we have children going to bed hungry at night smacks in the face of that moral imperative. I think that most people would agree with that statement.
Free lunch at schools, a program that has been around in some form since right after WWII, attests to the fact that all our leaders have believed that we take care of our children by providing them with a hot meal once a day.
Morality and ethics can be found in varioius religions. That does not necessarily mean religion owns these concepts. Both can exist, quite well in fact, outside of religion.
Pinko, it wouldn’t matter who made the comment about being my brother’s keeper. Many biblical references find their way into common daily speech. How many times have we been confused about common phrases? Was it Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, or the Bible?
Overall, I think George Bush was a sincerely religious man.
Obama and religion of any kind isn’t something I’d get “all wee-wee’d up about”.
When did a brother become a “distant relative”?
This discussion is being twisted into an argument over the merits of taking care of the needy–i.e. being our brothers’ keeper. I don’t know anyone who would argue that. What about the core issue here, that Obama is suggesting that this bill is fundamentally a moral and ethical imperative? Does that mean we allow our legislators to pass it, flaws and all, without even bothering to really read it?
Elena, why are you broad-brushing Republicans like that? Should we assume that all Hispanics are potentially illegal immigrants?
Birther? That’s not fair at all. After Obama’s birth certificate was presented, I have not mentioned that issue at all.
With his brother’s keeper comment, Obama tried to equate taking care of the needy with passage of this healthcare bill. My point is that Obama won’t even help take care of his needy brother — this is yet another case of “do as I say, not as I do.”
If Obama wants to be taken seriously when he declares moral imperatives, he has to demonstrate a little more personal credibility on the issue.
A brother is distant if they grew up on another continent and you did not know them most of your life. Obama’s African relatives could hardly be considered part of the family in the normal context.
Furthermore, I would extend ‘brother’s keeper’ and not look at it in the literal sense.
So you are saying that “our brother’s keeper” only applies to total strangers? Whatever happened to “charity begins at home?”
Well, in that case….I am NOT my brother’s keeper. Let ’em get his own keeper.
I’m sorry but this is another one of those hate campaigns where the right wing extremist argument is so ridiculous it’s difficult to muster a response. I just wish the news media would stop reporting on hate movements as if they truly represent the Republican party. I refuse to believe that. I think it is just a phase and the Republican leadership will regain their senses when the politics of open hatred prove no more successful than the politics of no.
The conversation really is getting too ridiculous to participate in. Sorry folks. Throwing around cute little saying just isn’t getting to the heart of the matter. The heart of the matter really is that no matter what Obama does or says, there are people who will try to destroy him. I find that sad and I found it sad when it was done to Bush.
The black velvets have called one of their own an anti-Semite. This is classic!
@Moon-howler
Very true, MH. It’s like they WANT him to fail, which is so destructive to us all.
Any time any US president fails, it is destructive to all of us, Pinko– At least IMHO.
So Pagan Patty, why are velvets calling each other an anti-semite?
One of their own was knocking any religious beliefs other than theirs. I might be a pagan, but I pray that person doesn’t have kids to brainwash to be that way. Good Lord, what’s wrong with people that claim to be such Christians.
So, to summarize your thought, here.
“Hate Hate Hatred Hate Hatred Hate Hate”
Well thought-out argument. Maybe just a tad redundant, but otherwise BRILLIANT!!
Looks like the dark master took out his eraser and cleaned the slate of the anti semite remark over on the dark screen. Schools in session I guess. Did the truth hurt, oh dark master.
Obviously the First Amendment means nothing at that site. It must have felt damn good for the master to wave his magic wand and make things vaporized. The proof is in the pudding right here that a comment was wiped away.
Bridget said on 22 Aug 2009 at 2:07 pm: Flag comment
BattleCat said
“I don’t know if the whole “left invoking Nazis to bash American Citizens” thing is worth getting all wee-wee’d up about.”
I don’t know, but it was worth seeing this congressman get his wee wee handed to him by a marine:
http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/marine-corp-veteran-at-town-hall.html
Once a marine, always a marine. God bless and keep every last one.
anon said on 22 Aug 2009 at 4:12 pm: Flag comment
Well, Anonymous 3:31, I don’t know what Patty does or doesn’t know about reform Judaism.
But I DO know what YOU don’t know – how quotation marks work and what they mean.
Patty, can you explain a bit more. Like most people in PWC, I don’t look at the old blog anymore. You’re saying the post above was removed by the Gospel One? Well there have been hundreds if not thousands of those. That is why there is no discussion over there. Only a few people are ALLOWED to post comments.
Racist Moniker Man, I’m not sure if you can grasp the irony of your latest rant against me. I won’t bother spelling it out for you though.
Let me expand on what I’m saying for those NOT blinded by their own ethnic resentments:
When the media legitimizes right wing extremists by putting them on the “news,” then Republicans are put in a bind. Because it is hard to turn down the support of loud voice that is opposed to everything, even if it is a very small minority of people. Let’s face it, although it’s less than 20 percent of Americans. These right wing extremists are more than 50 percent of the Republican party. So the sad thing is that Republican elected officials are afraid to say anything against the “Birthers” or the “Deathers” or anyone who is organizing around hatred and propaganda.
We saw what happened to Prince William County when similar tactics seduced Corey Stewart and John Stirrup into handing over control of our county government to Gospel Greg Letiecq. It cost our county millions of dollars, soiled our reputation, and damaged our local economy, tax base, and housing market. All to satisfy a very small group of extremists who were succeeding at getting media attention.
Sound familiar?
The only difference is that we don’t have a Corey Stewart in place in at the federal level. Thank goodness. So while these right wing extremist voices are leading the Republican party to ruin, they will not necessarily lead the entire country to ruin. Sorry Racist Moniker Man. You lose again.
Suffice to say Shelly, one religious zealot was on a religious rant. Someone came along and quoted some of the diatribe. Then they said that the poor misguided soul sounded anti-Semitic. It really is horrible how drunk on themselves they are. The magic wand had to be waved, because that comment did not fall in line with “cult of black velvets”. We all know numerous comments have been censored. Monkey business as usual.
Obama is pompously attaempting to swing public opinion instead of working to fight for reform. This “comprehensive approach” is failing, which wouldn’t preclude passing individual measures if this is really about making things better for the people instead of putting big business first.
“We’ve had a vigorous debate about health insurance reform” – Not at all. Most Americans do not understand the issues.
“But it also should be an honest debate, not one dominated by willful misrepresentations and outright distortions” – Obama’s been for years now trying to sell the whole thing based on falsehoods about “savings”.
“Illegal immigrants would not be covered.” Right but they’ll still be consuming emergency room resources as well as Government-subsidized free clinics, so who are you fooling? Give the hospitals the right to refuse coverage to illegal aliens (which they should have, constitutionally), or start deporting them after they are discharged, you can pick up some real votes. It might affect Aunt Zetuni badly though.
Pass reforms piecemeal, each on their own merits. Stop trying to convince the American people that they need everything bundled into one bill. It’s a falsehood, based on a desire to get lobbyists’ concerns passed. Stop worrying about the price of medical stocks and about which lobbyists will give who what money in the next election cycle, and actually do what you should be doing – worry about making things better for the American people.
Comprehensive health care reform will happen right after comprehensive immigration reform. Put it down for the 12th of never. Meanwhile, stop invoking God’s name and do something real.
How would you have Obama “working to fight for reform? This I have to hear.
I am not sure Obama has the authority to give hospitals the right to refuse service if they are non-profit. Let’s picture that scenario…dead and sick bodies lining the streets of hospitals?
It is one thing to grouse. It is another thing to come up with a plan. It is a thorny situation, but one that cannot be ignored.
The person making questionable anti-Semitic comments was preaching on the dark screen and taking bad about Bull Run Unitarian Church. It is bad practice to ridicule other people’s religion. BRUU is a perfectly acceptable church as are reformed Jewish synagogues. These groups are not cults.
She ought to spend more time reading the Good Book and practicing what it says and less time harassing certain film makers. Good works don’t matter? I wouldn’t be so sure.
“the Dark Screen”. ooooooooohhhhhh, scary!
How would you have Obama “working to fight for reform”?
Allow importation of prescription drugs. Create a bill of rights that basically says Amerricans should never be paying 10 times what other nations pay for the same drugs. Shame Congress into passing this.
Put into that bill of rights provisions that force medical carriers to stop gauging the uninsured – common rates for service.
Provide health care for the uninsured but make them work for it.
“It is one thing to grouse. It is another thing to come up with a plan.”
A comprehensive fairy-tale plan that we can lie about the cost of? That’s the kind of governing that has caused economic crisis.
Obama’s tried to sell one thing (increased coverage for Americans) as another (cost savings) under false pretenses.
I agree with the Rick Bentley rx plan.
I would disagree that the uninsured always get charged more. There may be cases. However, when my carrier started bringing the hammer down on the provider for my PT, they charged me less since I had to pay out of pocket. Insurance companies will get by with paying as little as possible.