We have had all sorts of ‘ers’ this summer.  We have had lots  of different birthers, including Lou Dobbs.   They continue to beat the drum that President Obama is not an American citizen.  Ridiculous!

Then we dealt with a truther, Van Jones, who somehow managed to get his name on a petition suggesting the Bush administration had some prior knowledge of the attacks on the Pentagon and the twin towers.  Ridiculous!

So what’s worse?  Truther or birther?  Which takes the greatest fugue from reality?

Van Jones used potty mouthy directed at Republicans before he was brought into the administration.  Oh well–so did President Bush when he thought the mic was off.  So did Vice President Cheney when he dropped the F bomb on the Senate Floor.  I didn’t want their heads though.  So what. 

Van Jones had some associations most of us would prefer not to be part of our government.  It was time for him to go because of these associations and because of the truther petition.  He was over the top and was causing too much negative attention regardless of any positive qualifications he might have brought to this administraton. 

And finally, when are the right wingers going to quit?  Never.  Not until the last person in the Obama administration has been brought down, if they have their way.  Jones was just the appetizer. 

 

Carne más roja, por favor.

 

 

26 Thoughts to “Truthers or Birthers? Which are Worse?”

  1. JustinT

    C’mon, M-H, it’s foolish to even compare the two. Yes, it’s unfortunate for Mr. Jones that he clicked whatever he clicked on that idiotic email he received. But did you ever hear about “truthers” before this? I didn’t. They certainly didn’t have rallies on the National Mall, or teabagging parties all over the country. They were not on the news every day, and the certainly didn’t become the platform for a major political party.

    No, it is not until recently that we have see incredibly stupid conspiracy theories become the primary strategy of a major political party, and thus the focus of mainstream media attention. It wasn’t until recently that we saw a major politial party in a situation where they had no better ideas.

    A little hate can go a long way. Countless despots have proven that throughout history. But it is not until now, when the backward thinking right wing haters are confronted with an African American President, that we’ve seen this birther/deather pathology where any conspiracy theory is good enough to keep up the insanity, as long as it’s main thrust is hatred for the President.

    I’m honestly surprised. I thought that the Clinton hate machine was an anomoly. The Republicans were afraid he’d be successful, so they tried to to assassinate him with propaganda. They failed, and the country succeeded in spite of them. Then of course they found a way to get Bush II in, and we got a taste of what a national failure looks like.

    I must say I thought that Obama winning over Hillary would mean that the hate machine would be neutralized, because Republicans had assumed like everyone else that Hillary would be the nominee and had gearted their billion dollar hate machine accordingly.

    But more importantly, I figured the hate circus ring leaders would be too ashamed to use racism to fuel their political propaganda strategy. Or if they weren’t too ashamed, they would be too shrewd politically. They would realize that the average American would see through the thin veil that supposedly covers the racism that is at the heart of any mob or movement that rejects the legitimacy of a U.S. President based on his ethnicity.

    How wrong I was. How wrong I was.

  2. El Guapo

    I think both the “Truthers” and the “Birthers” are relatively harmless. Most mainstream Republicans/Conservatives aren’t falling for the “Birth” conspiracy. Neither are most mainstream Dems/Libs embracing the “Truther” lunacy.

    Like LaRouche supporters, when they show up blowing their horns and carrying their signs, most people say, “Here come those nuts again.” Their extreme wackiness renders them ineffective in swaying the general public.

  3. Emma

    So what do we call the people who obsess over college papers? Essayers?

    Red meat raises your cholesterol. Better to eat more veggies, Moon.

  4. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    You’ll have to add a third category. Truthers, Birthers, and whatever’s wrong with Justin.

  5. Moon-howler

    Gotta a problem with that, Emma, I don’t know what to do for it. I guess be mindful of who you vote for.

    Afraid that red meat was not for me but for the troops. They like their red meat or we get few responses. See how many people liked O’Reilly vs Beck/Olbermann.

    El Guapo, I used to think you are right. After the birther polls I have seen though, I am not so sure.

    I thought the truther theories started in Europe. I didn’t know any Americans bought in to that.

  6. Leila

    M-H, The truther movement is an American phenomenon for the most part. What you might be thinking of was a French author, Thierry Meyssan, who wrote a book early after 9/11 disputing the notion that a plane hit the Pentagon. He’s a prominent figure in the movement, but most prominent figures are American, as are the followers.
    With truthers, there have been books, videos, organizations, etc. I would imagine Wiki has a rundown of who’s who, as well as other sources, but you can also find the truthers stuff easily via Google or Youtube, and you can find the opposition hitting back. Also I think it is an umbrella for a lot of different disputes over 9/11. Snopes.com is always an excellent source on conspiracy theories, showing the inanity of both the birthers and truthers.
    Regarding Emma’s reference to “college papers,” it was graduate school not college, he wasn’t young, he was about to launch a political career, and nobody I know is obsessing over it except maybe the Deeds campaign. There is no mass grassroots aspect of it the way there is with the birthers and truthers, and of course it was McDonnell himself who alerted the Washington Post to the fact that he had written on welfare policy in grad school. That was the reason it was uncovered in the first place. He was proud of it and brought it up in an interview.

  7. Emma

    “nobody I know is obsessing over it except maybe the Deeds campaign.”

    Well, there’s Moon-howler, for instance:

    “Candidate McDonnell would like for nothing better than for his thesis issue to go away. Anti will just do its small part to see that that doesn’t happen.”

    Just keeping it real, Leila.

  8. I think both the “Truthers” and the “Birthers” are dangerous wackos.

  9. @Moon-howler “I didn’t know any Americans bought in to that.”

    I’ve known several personally. It’s a more popular theory than you might think.

  10. Poor Richard

    Sadly, President Obama helped to give the Republican wingnuts an
    opening this summer.

    Headline in the Chicago Tribune (9-4-2009)-
    “Obama declining support among white centrist”
    “Pew polls first identified a slippage in white support immediately
    following a press conference in July, when Obama took the surprising
    step of criticizing a white police officer for acting ‘stupid’
    in arresting a black Harvard professor.”

    Who spoke with bias and speculation without knowing the facts?

    The Beck Basij aren’t Obama’s only problem – he is too often his
    own worse enemy.

  11. Moon-howler

    Could be, Pinko. I have never talked to anyone who thought that though. I would walk off if they did. hoooowwwwllll.

    Emma, notice the words small part….gouge gouge…Consider it obsessing if you want. You obviously don’t mind people in power with archaic notions. I do. Maybe he will win, maybe he won’t. That election is a long way off. In case you haven’t figured it out, I really dislike any connection between church and state.

    Leila, that is who I was thinking of. I honestly had never heard of truthers until this past summer. I had heard of the other wackos. I thought they were all under the same umbrella. Thanks for clarifying.

  12. Emma

    Indeed, that immediate, knee-jerk assumption of “white cops wrong, black guy once again victimized” fed the beast. That was highly indicative of the president’s underlying assumptions. Let’s see his college papers!

  13. Moon-howler

    Emma, I think only you know what you are talking about. That must be some RR secret hand-shake language.

    As Leila has pointed out, there is a huge difference in someone’s college paper and someone’s master’s thesis, even at Regent University.

  14. Emma

    I was responding to Poor Richard’s quote from the Chicago Trib, Moon.

  15. Moon-howler

    Here is the truthers for dummies website. Good grief.

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/12489

    I don’t think I even want to know. It souunds like the rantings of a blogger who used to come here.

  16. Emma

    I could make a fortune making tinfoil hats for those folks. Very interesting link.

  17. Second-Alamo

    What goes around, comes around!

  18. Second-Alamo

    Anyone who puts his name to something without understanding the intent isn’t exactly the type you want making decisions for your well being, but then how many in congress have actually read and understood the actions they are voting on? Very very few I would assume. It appears anything can get passed if you put the acceptable stuff in the first 50 pages and the undesirable junk in page 500 onward. It’s the congressional version of the ‘fine print’. However, you would expect them to at least read to page 16!

  19. Emma

    Page 16? Are their attention spans really that long?

  20. Moon-howler

    Enlighten us please, SA. What’s on page 16? I didn’t get the memo.

    Emma, I did not get far but it was weird. I think the birthers are wackos also though.

  21. Poor Richard

    Off topic, but you may want to read the chart in this
    morning’s WaPo Metro (B2) – “Summing Up Area Public Schools”.

    Some interesting data:
    – In the racial makeup of the student body, it notes Manassas
    has the highest Hispanic % in NoVa – 42%, followed by Manassas Park
    at 41%. PWC is in fifth place (of eight systems) at 24%, but
    that varies from school to school as might be expected in
    a large system.

    – The best “apples to apples” comparison for Manassas and Manassas
    Park is each other – demographics, free lunch program %, local
    funding etc. So, why does MP have far higher state test scores?
    Manassas Park pass rate in reading 91% and math 90% while
    Manassas has 83% and 77% (PWC is 90% and 87%). I know there
    are many very good teachers in Manassas, but the numbers
    mean something or is this just an anomaly?

  22. Moon-howler

    Thanks for bringing us this information, Poor Richard.

    As for MP’s successful test scores, I have no idea. I have been tracking them for about 5 years now and have yet to figure out what they are doing right. However, they are consistently at the top of their game.

    I know the first year that math sols were given in 6, 7th grades, most kids in the state failed those tests. (previously the test had just been given at 8th grade.) Not MP. They passed their 6,7th math sol scores while the rest of the state dragged. They had the only middle school in the area that made AYP also because of it.

  23. ShellyB

    The idea that Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks before 9/11 is a horrible thought. It would not do us any good to know that if it were true anyway. It would only add to the heartache. There is very little evidence of this anyway. Just the President’s Daily Briefing saying “Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in the U.S.” But the briefing did not say what day or where. And I’m not even certain that Bush read the briefing. He was on vacaction at the time. Cheney was in charge. But I couldn’t even believe that Cheney would want a terrorist attack just so he could invade Iraq and enrich himself through Haliburton and enrich his oil buddies. Bush is a decent man. He was just overwhelmed by the office of the President, which he never really should have run for. Cheney was not overwhelmed, but his motives were very, very dark. Not dark enough to allow the attacks to happen. Dark enough to be remiss in not focusing on terrorism during the first year? Maybe. But that is a long way from saying they knew in advance.

    As for the Birthers and the Deathers, they are going on less evidence. They are probably just as angry and just as deranged. I have no problem with either one of them existing. My problem is that Birthers and Deathers are being propped up as ordinary people. They are being used by the Health Insurance companies and the “I hope America fails” partisans. I hope they never graduate from taboid status and become the heart and soul of the Republican party. That would be a shame. Someone in the GOP has to step up and say enough with the Birthers and Deathers. We have more to our party than that.

  24. @Moon-howler
    I should add that some of the believers are just scared witless by media that throws this stuff to the crowds like bread and circus. Unfortunately, this kind of audience does not know how to sort through information very well–they don’t question what they are told.

    The real whackos are those in authority and/or who have a stage and use it to spread this kind of crap.

  25. Moon-howler

    Pinko, I think you are on to something. There is a lot of fearmongering and most of the people doing it know exactly what they are doing. I find that unforgivable.

    I think of the woman who stood up during the presidential campaign and asked Sen. McCain about Obama being ‘an A-rab.’ The lady was scared a sponge for misinformation. I felt sorry for her.

  26. michael

    I would highly encourage ALL of you making comments about what and what was not known about the 9/11 attacks buy or borrow the national geographic DVD “inside 9/11”.

    I really get tired of posting on this blog when so many people make so many emotional comments and “half-truths”, when they should take more time to gather more evidence from both sides of the issues, rather than just one.

    I believe national geographis has done one of the most accurate and most credible documentaries about the events leading up to 9/11, starting all the way back to 1991, when the first gulf war was fought (my war).

    Some of you may wonder why I get so angry at some who support “socialism” and support “illegal immigration”. I can tell you from my deepest felt experiences as an ex-military person, I have seen what happens in a “socialist society” and in a society that oppresses the truth in pursuit of religious control over the people, while doing everything possible to “illegally immigrate” their militant operatives past our border defenses and past our police officers who are and have always been handicapped by the “progressive,” political movements, supporters and social rights advocates” to believe that all humans are good, none are evil, and America needs to invite all foreigners into our country, in order to make a better world. When you look at warfare, the politics of warfare, and how the various factions that supported 9/11 atrocities got into our country, operated as religious organizations, operated under the radar of law enforcement (powerless to screen bad people from good people), you will understand why I continue to fight for democracy, fight against socialism, fight progressive politics and fight againt the ignorance of people who think the world is mostly a peaceful place of “nice” cultures and political organizations. When you look at the history of the world, you see mostly the cruelty of the oppressors, exerting their political and religious will on the oppressed.

    Only freedom, and protection under common law, from all people who would do us harm (foreign and domestic), can create a peaceful and civilized society. Socialism, communism, dictators and religions that are running governments have never in the history of the world created peaceful and safe societies. Please see the documentary “inside 9/11” before you profess to have all solutions and truthful insight on what really was known and not known before 9/11.

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