So how did the big march go in Washington? Apparently quite well, from what I could tell. The protestors all seemed happy and having a great time. Many of the signs were creative.
Some signs seemed to be not so tasteful. Many of these signs were handed out at the rally. (see below)
According to ABC news,
Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration’s health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.
Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.
At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as “tens of thousands
60,000-70,000 participants certainly isn’t too shabby. Protestors always get into it with the Capital Police and D.C. Fire Department over numbers.
Fox News Commentator/host Glenn Beck was a big supporter of this initiative. He was not in attendance.
According to sources, most of the protesters were conservative, disliked President Obama, didn’t want health care changes, and hated government spending. Isn’t America grand when this many people can get together to express their opinions. Where were they a year ago? Where were they before the election? President Obama was very clear as to the changes he wanted.
It seems like a lot of hoopla after the fact to me. Perhaps they are gearing up for the midterm congressional elections. Help us understand. What is the objective? What do the protesters hope to achieve? I understand they don’t like Obama, any of the proposed health care plans, spending, big government. What are the positives they want? Someone please explain.
Turn the calender back to 1956? Hard to say, very confusing.
Obama was very clear as the changes he wanted. We must have been watching different speeches. I heard a lot of “you need change, this is the change you need”. Very few specifics (at least the man’s consistent). He acted like he might try to be a moderate, so those in the middle couldn’t pass up the opportunity to be part of something historic. Many of those in the middle are now seeing what they actually voted for, and they’re feeling a little stupid (it was nothing more than a masterful marketing campaign by Axelrod). It’s a little confusing to me. When a man stands in front of a crowd and says “if we all just inflated our tires, we wouldn’t need foreign oil”……people expect things to get smarter than that???
But you also disliked McCain, Slow. Is it a matter of who you disliked least?
That’s it. And the shame of it was, I think we should be able to vote for who we want and not against what we know is worse for the nation’s stability. In the long term, though, I’d rather have Obama because of the chance America will be slapped into conciousness. McCain would have only drawn ire from the left, where Obama will draw fury from anyone right of center. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way (or relearn what Carter was like).
Interesting outlook. How about the middle folks? I honestly believe most people are in the middle and not at the extremes.
I also used to believe most people weren’t ideologues. Not so sure I am right now. Maybe it is just the blogosphere that skews my perception.
Well, I’m still fascinated by the notions of “two extremes and the middle” vs. “left or right of center”. Maybe it’s best to think of it more fluidly. One thing is for sure, and that is there are fewer people sitting on the fence now than there were in January. Maybe more of the folks bunched into the middle have oozed out closer to the edges. And one thing I need to say…the truth of the matter is, it’s really not much about Obama. Blaming Obama for a nation in trouble is a little like blaming Ronald McDonald for a bad hamburger. It’s the Congress that is really the problem. Obama may apply pressure, but at the end of the day, Obama doesn’t make law, and it’s the sense that people have that their representatives are not listening to them that has people awake and alert these days.
M-H, since you asked for a middling perspective, I’ll begin with the last paragraph of my post from yesterday:
“No one would pay these Tea Party rallies any mind if it wasn’t true that they form a voting block who is more likely to turn up on election day that probably any other voting block in America. They were out in force on Nov. 4, 2008. There just weren’t enough of them, and for this reason they are angry. That makes them dangerous for liberals, and enticing for conservatives. My judgment is that both sides have cause to worry: liberals in the short term, conservatives in the long term.”
What the Tea Party’s represent is a block of voters, call them arch-conservatives or ultra-conservatives, who are numerous enough to chase moderates out of the Republican party, not numerous enough to win national elections, and possibly numerous to win statewide elections, especially in the South.
I say they are dangerous for Democrats because many of the voters who turned out for Obama were first time voters, and cannot be counted on to vote in midterm elections (or our gubernatorial race in November).
I say they are dangerous for Republicans because during this period of heightened attention to all things political, when an entire generation of future voters is coming of age, we are seeing the Republican party branded by its most extreme and vociferous voices. Moderate are resigning or switching parties. Extremists get all the press. And yes, every image you see is dominated by Caucasian faces when in truth our country no longer is, nor will be in the future.
The Republican party that we are seeing does not look like America anymore. That is a big problem for us long term. And these Tea Party fanatics are making it very, very difficult to change course.
Slow, Blaming Ronald McDonald for a bad hamburger? Good one! I don’t necessarily see the middle as sitting on a fence as much as not fitting into an ideologue. It also depends on the perspective. To you, I expect I come across fairly liberal. To Shelly B, I expect I seem so conservative, one small push would put a tinfoil hat on me.
I think the financial break down is probably what is motivating people. This didn’t happen overnight. It has been coming for years. I see several key forces at work. 1. Religious Right/moral majority becoming a political faction. 2. The rise of political celebrities into the public eye. 3. non-stop cable news 4. internet in every home
There is no more business as usual.
Last Best Hope, What I saw yesterday was people who looked normal. It wasn’t the birthers, deathers, and tinfoil hat brigade. There were some but there were a lot more mainstream folks.
All bets are off on this one. I keep hearing about the new paradigm. The one that will replace Democrat/Republican that we know. I hear it mentioned but I don’t understand the new model. I think we are seeing the birth of something new…a new party being born.
Good questions all:
Where were they a year ago?
Lost in space.
Where were they before the election?
Nowhere.
What is the objective?
They want to show the world that they don’t lime Obama and hold up funny pictures of him.
What do the protesters hope to achieve?
See above
What are the positives they want?
They positively wanted to be on TV.
Juan Williams from Fox news said what I have beenw wondering. There isn’t even a final bill and people are protesting what they THINK is in the bill. The problem is that this process has not been concise. Inunedo and misinformation was allowed to fester for WAY to long. People are afraid and that should not be dismissed.
That Burry Obamacare sign is horrible! I don’t get it. Do they think that kind of thing is funny?
I also think its very odd that the Medicare Presciption Plan, which ended up costing 8 billion dollars with NO way to pay for it did not RILE anyone’s feathers. I think I’ve made this point multiple times and not one person has responded from the other side. Is it not socialisim because the money goes to the drug companies?
No one squawked at all over the medicare rx plan. In fact, several of my good buddy conservative friends got furious at me for pointing out some flaws in the plan. Go figure. There seems to be no consistency here.
Pinko I thought that bury Obamacare sign with Kennedy was awful also. It prompted the True Compass thread above as a matter of fact. I have a new respect for Ted Kennedy that was acquired by learning (gasp) during the events of his funeral–stuff I didn’t know before because I believed all the blowhards.
@Elena
Elena, I have been wondering the same thing. I think it’s pretty clear that there are two and only two litmus tests for these anti-Obama clones:
First they are easily duped into panic and hysteria because they are uninformed and have never paid any attention to their government before. Especially not to domestic policy issues. We know this from many of the interviews, and the fact that they did not rally to oppose all of the budget exploding laws passed under Bush.
Second, they voted for McCain and cannot accept that part of the idea of free and peaceful elections is that after the election is over you accept the result. Even if the President is not of your race.
Elena, you stated:
Bingo. But that begs the question: afraid of what?
Even they don’t know. Their activism is nothing more than a symptom of and reaction to raw fear absent of Reason. At the moment all we’re seeing is a group of fringe people complaining and assigning blame but not offering any productive alternatives whatsoever. And the status quo, which is all the Tea Partiers seem to be promoting (along with hatred), is not an alternative where this issue is concerned.
And sorry, but these absurd “Tea Party” rallies have absolutely nothing to do with opposing health care reform or demonstrating against any injustice. They are, pure and simple, demonstrations against Obama directly. These people are still raging over what happened on 4 November 2008. Obama could come out as a frothing-at-the mouth pro-lifer and Tea Partiers would still somehow find a way to oppose him on it.
Most of them didn’t like McCain. Remember how he was talked about like he was a worthless dog?
Race is only a tiny tip of the iceberg. Elena is correct. People are afraid. What are they afraid of? Take 1 day, during the week, and listen to fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and anyone else known for whipping people into a frenzy. The reason for the fears is fairly complex. In the abstract, people fear the America they know and love will cease to exist.
The real motive is job security for the Republican Party and Conservatism. If Obama succeeds, even partially, the Dems will hold on to power and the Reps. will be relegated to a small regional party with no voice. They are ramping up the rhetoric about “socialism” and such and just saying “no” to all of Obama’s initiatives without offering any alternative plans of their own. These “Tea Baggers” are just a bunch of pawns in a bigger game.
People should be cautious in assuming that the “Tea Parties” are the beginnings of an indicator of how the 2010 mid-terms might end up. The “Tea Parties” represent a fringe — a morally poisonous fringe — of the conservative movement in the U.S., not the mainstream of the Republican Party. This is borne out by the fact that the “Tea Parties” rose up swiftly and en masse before the election last year, and yet their impact was laughably negligible. It’s no different today.
Unfortunately for the Republican Party its image (though not its platform) is being hijacked by the “Tea Party” movement. And the extremism of the “Tea Partiers” is ultimately going to hurt the Republican Party, not help it.
And the reaction of the mostly moderate American electorate will be to reject extremism. Especially the kind of extremism which promotes the kind of hatefulness we see in such signs as “Bury Obamacare With Kennedy” and the kind of fear advocated by the likes of Glenn Beck.
Wow. These are all great points from R J Pearson, Ivan, and LBH (Elena an M-H, I also commend you for trying to play mediators).
I think it does boil down to Republicans and Conservatives trying to get back into power in spite of the Bush Disaster. Ivan is right. If the Democrats succeed in any way, the writing will be on the wall. The country prospers under Democratic leadership (Clinton in the 90’s and Obama in this decade), and falls off a cliff under Republican leadership (Bush and Cheney during the lost decade).
Limbaugh is a shameless liar but he said one thing that as true: the Republicans need America to fail right now. If America succeeds, Republicans will be out of power for a long, long time.
The odd thing is that the Bush Disaster brought them 90 percent of the way toward their goal of failure. They are rooting for failure and they did a good job to make it likely.
And anyone who wants failure, I would say is Un-American.
I don’t think we can blame but so much on Bush. Congress makes the laws. What did they do?
“There isn’t even a final bill and people are protesting what they THINK is in the bill.”
What they are afraid of, and you should be too, is the way a bunch of elitist politicians with no understanding of health care have been spinning and hyping you so that they can “get something through Congress” that isn’t even written yet, based on baloney and hype. “We can’t afford no to” do exactly what?
It resembles very much the Amnesty 2006 and 2007 fiascos, where the ruling elite tried every possible maneuver and configuration to try to get “something” passed, all the while assuring us that we were racists and xenophobes if we didn’t consent, and all the while telling us the whole future of America depended on it.
You should demand more from your leaders than vague spin and catchphrases.
The vague spin and catch phrases seem to be coming from the masses in the streets. I fear them and those who cow tow to them worse than I fear the politicians.
I feel the opposite. The mistakes the people on the street make usually impact only their own lives. The mistakes and corrupt acts our ruling class undertakes affects us all.
Yes, that is a good point. But now the masses on the streets are attempting to impact change that affects all of us.
I want the lobbyist out of the picture. That is the reform I want.
Rick, I would also feel better about the people on the street if they weren’t getting fed a bunch of misinformation from clowns like Beck, Limbaugh, and other people who also make MILLIONS off of political discontent. Fox News can hardly be considered neutral. They are marketing a their own personal agenda and they are flourishing over it.
“I want the lobbyist out of the picture. That is the reform I want.”
Then you need to “just say no” to a President whose whole concept of health care reform has boundaries set by the drug companies, for the price of 80 billion dollars.
To the many of you that can’t figure out what the bulk of these protesters are protesting, let me make a shortr list:
1. Politicians, of BOTH parties spending OUR money like drunken sailors on leave.
2. The cabinet and the czars assembled by POTUS is comprised almost exclusively of thugs, crooks, tax cheats, solialists, and even communists.
3. Government trying to take control of most every facet of our lives.
Don’t you ever wonder why all the polls show congress’s approval numbers are BELOW 30%? Don’t you wonder why polls show only a bit over 1/3rd of the country thinks we are heading in the right direction? For those of you who are not the end of your genepool, doesn’t it upset you that your great great great grandchildren will STILL be paying off the debt we are creating right now? Doesn’t the several ACORN scandles and their close association to Obama bother you?
THESE are some of the things that bother many MILLIONS of Americans. If you can’t understand that, then I pity your side next November!(2010)
“Tea Baggers?” This is more than we wish to know about your relationship with Barney Frank.
Which is loving compared to the way the left talked about Sarah Palin. The best part was the way “feminists” talked about Palin. I guess she wasn’t the right “kind” of woman.
I really see not real evidence that the drug companies are planning the health care reform. Which one of the looney tunes fed you that one Rick?
@Average American
You seem to be underestimating the awesome power of denial!
Average American, not sure who you are talking to. I don’t think you have been here enough to make that determination. I have asked that someone explain the objectives of the tea party meetings. No one has really told me what they hope to accomplish.
You must be kidding me.
It’s not exactly hidden or secret that the Prescription Drug companies “pledged” 80 billion dollars worth of drugs (targeted for seniors) to Obama in exchange for him laying off drug reimportation.
It’s the corruption, the dishonesty, the naked lunch at the end of the fork, that’s right in front of your face.
Or perhaps you think the stockholder-controlled pharmaceutical companies are making this pledge as charity, and Obama no longer speaks about drug reimportation because they’re such nice people.
Wake up and smell the Xanax. They’ll get that 80 billion back in the blink of an eye, from people like you and me. Drug reimportation is one way to actually cut the cost of health care in America, unlike most of Obama’s proposals; he’s sold it away for 80 billion.
Slow, bad deflection. I speak of McCain being talked about like he was a dog. You talk about Palin and feminists. I am talking about the 2 people who ran for president. If you don’t like McCain and you don’t like Obama, it seems to me that its time for these people to start forming a third party where people better suit their needs.
I would love to see a third party, but I fear it won’t happen. There hasn’t been a viable third party in America for quite a number of years.
“Which one of the looney tunes fed you that”
Please read this Moon-howler – and reflect on how “change” is not going to include any type of reduction in drug prices for you and I, even while the rest of the world pays far less for non-generic drugs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html
You might want to read further background on what’s going on –
http://politicalirony.com/2009/08/30/80-billion-of-what/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html
http://peaceandjustice.org/article.php/20090808092501841
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/21/us.health.care/index.html
Perot was the nearest thing to it wasn’t he? I wouldn’t even call him a third party.
My biggest fear with all of this is WHO is generating discontent and why. I don’t like entertainers who make millions off of people generating all this hysteria and taking on god-like status with some of these people. I see little difference in them and tele-evangelists. It is the same idea.
@Moon-howler
I remember Perot!! Now..Look at this Chart, here!!
I would say “cognitive disonance” is at work here. You have seniors being the most vocal and yet, THEY, are on a government plan, it’s called MEDICARE. You have an insurance crisis that IS looming but just hasn’t trapped enough people. 47 million in a country of 307 million is still a small percentage. When more people can’t afford health care or get dropped when they need it most, you will see WHY it was so imperative that insurance reform, NOT healthcare reform, but INSURANCE reform, should be passed.
By 2018 our health care cost will rise to 18 trillion dollars. This is NOT sustainable, it really is that simple. No body cries about big government supporting Haliberton, supporting Boeing, supporting all the big defense contractors. WHY is health care treated so differently. Is Japan considered a socialist government? They seem to have a great healthcare system! We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. People just need to start thinking and STOP freaking!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89626309
Dr. Kono Hitoshi is a typical doctor. He runs a private, 19-bed hospital in the Tokyo neighborhood of Soshigaya.
“The best thing about the Japanese medical system is that all citizens are covered,” Kono says. “Anyone, anywhere, anytime — and it’s cheap.”
Patients don’t have to make appointments at his hospital, either.
The Japanese go to the doctor about three times as often as Americans. Because there are no gatekeepers, they can see any specialist they want.
Keeping Costs Low
Japanese patients also stay in the hospital much longer than Americans, on average. They love technology such as magnetic resonance imaging; they have nearly twice as many scans per capita as Americans do. A neck scan can cost $1,200 in the United States.
Professor Ikegami Naoki, Japan’s top health economist, explains how Japan keeps MRIs affordable.
“Well, in 2002, the government says that the MRIs, we are paying too much. So in order to be within the total budget, we will cut them by 35 percent,” Ikegami says.
This is how Japan keeps cost so low. The Japanese Health Ministry tightly controls the price of health care down to the smallest detail. Every two years, the health care industry and the health ministry negotiate a fixed price for every procedure and every drug.
That helps keep premiums to around $280 a month for the average Japanese family, a lot less than Americans pay. And Japan’s employers pick up at least half of that. If you lose your job, you keep your health insurance.
Here’s a song for the partiers, going around the internet. It’s a
“little song celebrating our position at #37 in the world in healthcare.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4&feature=player_embedded
Firedancer, that was awesome, I’m going to put it up on its own thread!
Moon howler, there are probably as many different answers to “what are our objectives” as there are participants. Speaking just for myself, it would be nice to know that our voice has been heard and respected by the politicians we are trying to reach. People like Gibbs and the wicked bitch of the west Pelosi pretending that they didn’t even know we existed and then that we are just a fringe and we are radical and we are astroturf—-that just increased our resolve. We WILL be heard or there will be many politicians in the unemployment lines! Moon Howler, if that was you that visited me earlier, thanks for dropping by and you’re welcomed back anytime. I have absolutely no problem with differing opinions as long as civility is maintained and you do seem to be civil. I by the way am an Undeclared voter (independant), although I lean republican, as I am relatively conservative.
Remember, these tea parties started way back last February and then April 15th. Health care reform wasn’t being talked about yet. The frustration goes way beyond this one issue. It’s MASSIVE government spending and MASSIVE power grabs and a disgusting hierachy of, shall I say, less than impeccable people running things in Washington.
AA, no I didn’t visit earlier but I will in a few minutes and thank you. Thanks for the explanation.
Can someone tell me what, generally speaking, the tea partiers do want? That is what I can’t figure out.
American, I visited. You have a very attractive blog. Funny. You are independent and I am independent. We are quite far apart politically. I would consider myself moderate on most issues with a couple of exceptions. On one, I got far right. The other, far left.
And thanks again for the invitation.
Welcome Average American,
“illegals aren’t immigrants they’re criminals” I have concerns with that statement on your blog.
I have been known to speed, o.k. more than once in my life but not more than 10 miles over the speed limit, so am I a criminal? Which illegal aliens are you calling “criminal”. Clearly, the word criminal has a very specific negative, and I would say even dangerous and fearful, connotation.
Elena, it would be one thing if Average American were simply overmagnifying the level at which migrants are violating U.S. federal immigration statutes. But it seems reasonable to conclude that his “illegals aren’t immigrants they’re criminals” statement isn’t at all about identifying violations of law, but is about labeling a group of people for the sole purpose of demeaning them.
What must be asked then is why is he demeaning them? As if it matters, though. The very fact of their being demeaned allows no justification for it as it is.
I have a problem with Illegals are not immigrants. Of course they are immigrants, by definition.
I think we need to treat criminal behavior as criminal behavior and not start mixing up immigration status with ‘criminality.’ It weakens law enforcement all the way around, in my opinion.
Speaking of law enforcement, I think we are under an old terrorist code orange. Law enforcement is getting a pretty serious message from DHS about being on the look out for materials that could be used for explosives. Not sure though. Maybe those old color codes weren’t so bad after all. I at least knew what was being said.
Sorry, according to DHS we are at yellow alert.
We are at orange for flights, domestic and international.
http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/Copy_of_press_release_0046.shtm
For all I know it is always there. Apparently the codes are still in place.