This is the reality, while everybody is bickering, you, and me, and everyone else that has healthcare, will spend more and get less each year. REAL insurance reform must take place or this country will no longer be a super power. If people are sick, they can’t work, if people go bankrupt because of medical bills, we all suffer, if people spread disease because they can’t AFFORD to see a doctor, we are all at risk. If YOUR child would suffering in pain because you couldn’t afford healthcare or the insurance plan you had refused to pay for treatment, WHAT would you do?
Wendell Potter testified before Congress about the need for a Public Option, he worked for Cigna and ultimately quit!
From the Washington Post
As businesses contend with rising costs, many workers face an erosion of health benefits next year, according to an annual survey released Tuesday by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust.
Forty percent of employers surveyed said they are likely to increase the amount their workers pay out of pocket for doctor visits. Almost as many said they are likely to raise annual deductibles and the amount workers pay for prescription drugs.
A major business lobby weighed in Tuesday, saying that if current trends continue, annual health-care costs for employers will rise 166 percent over the next decade — to $28,530 per employee.
“Maintaining the status quo is simply not an option,” said Antonio M. Perez, chief executive of Eastman Kodak and a leader of the Business Roundtable. “These costs are unsustainable and would put millions of workers at risk,” Perez said in a statement.
The question is, as always, how will we accomplish it? It’s the means, not the end, I believe that people disagree on.
I’m not sure that is true. It’s hard to believe, but it seems as though people really don’t understand insurance and how we have to have real reform. Tax cuts and competition won’t do enough, you HAVE to have some real oversight by the government, this requires REAL change.
Elena, would you say that there are many people out there who believe there is NOTHING wrong with the system?
I would say, there are many people, primarily conservative republicans, who believe the system just needs a little tweaking. If you listen to Wendell Potter, he clearly believes, having BEEN in the industry, MAJOR reform is needed not just some tweaking.
Here’s the bottom line Elena. The huge cost differential between us and the rest of the world is to do with the amount spent at the end of life and on terminally ill. Democrats gave up on changing this and are now just playing shell games, pretending that we can save money by providing more care to more people. Neither party’s responsible and the President needs to be held acountable for being such a b***s*** merchant and for selling himself out to the drug companies.
A little tweaking yes, as long as it doesn’t cut into the profits of the big insurance or pharmacutial companies. Those in congress who stand the most against reform are generally those who receive the most in campaign contributions from this industry.
The sound and fury in Washington has you convinced that one side or the other is trying to do something real. They’re BOTH playing political games. Neither party is worth a damn.
The Obama people have no integrity about any particular issue, they just want to broker a deal of some kind, and its increasingly obvious that whatever they do will cost the nation more money (okay, you might argue) and MOST DEFINITELY cost non-senior average taxpayers A LOT more money (definitely not okay with me). Obama lost me when he did his 180 degree turn on drug reimportation, for an 80 billion doillar payoff to senior citizens at my expense.
We should not be paying 5 times more than other countries for drugs invented here. I won’t accept that as a status quo and something to be bargained away.
I hope we could get some type of reasonable health care reform at some point but nothing being discussed is even vaguely sensible.
THOROUGHLY CORRUPT GOVERNMENT. They all deserve to be screamed at and called liars. I am convinced that any undertaking on health care reform that leaves the drug companies unbounded is disaster for most Americans.
I trust Obama on this as much as I do on the illegal immigration/Amnesty debate. Not at all. He’s as disingenuous as George W Bush ever was. The insurance companies became the villains and the drug companies the good guys very quickly after an 80 billion dollar pledge.
That 80 billion dollar pledge is about drugs for seniors. To actually address rising costs we need to contain the amount spent on the elderly, not give drug compaines carte blanche.
The outright dishonesty is ataggering. To aloow these corrupt who*es to sell us this bunch of hooey that doesn’t even make logical sense would be a complete abrogation of common sense.
The Baucus “plan” is particularly laughable. Since we can’t trust insurance companies and medical device menufacturers not to gauge us, or to pledge 80 billion at a time to Big Brother Obama, the government will tax them billions upon billions of dollars the cost of which will be passed down to the consumer, and we’ll pretend this is social progress.
Everything being discussed is going to really hurt average Americans.
I gather Rick likes politicians. 🙂
Want to save money? STOP LETTING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DRAIN HOSPITALS. Give them care when needed, but deport them afterwards. They will self-deport, and we will have many untol billions now available to spend on our own people.
Put that up to a f***ing vote.
Rock is angry. Rick is so disgusted with the current state of our political system that he paid very little attention to this health care debate until the last week or so. Now that he started paying attention, and can see right through the partisan smokescreens, Rick is as usual very, very angry with the state of America and with the way our elitists are doing crazy things to empower their friends and political sponsors.
Rock has also been hopping mad about the drug reimportation issue for a long time.
I find it odd that many people who want end of life options are continually at cultural war with politicians like Del. Bob Marshall. End of life care and end of life rights for families and patients seem to elude discussion and is brushed under the table as a ‘death panel.’
States like Washington and Oregon seem to me the only civilized states in the Union on this topic. Meanwhile we treat our pets far better than human beings who are at the end of their life.
Rick, as you are angry over the rx situation, I am angry over end of life issues. Most doctors won’t even discuss the politics of this issue because they don’t want the political hounds of hell unleashed on them.
And note the complete absence of leadership on the end of life issue(s) as well.
“Well Republicans demagogued it”. Maybe so but that doesn’t abrogate the Presdient from a responsibility to lead and to be truthful. Just like the previous President, this one doesn’t do that.
you can’t trust most of these guys to even admit they said the word f*** after they say it out loud in a radio show … we really need a sea change in America.
Obama’s popular, over 50% approval at least. Yet he sits back and watches the confusion in Congress and watches the sausage grinding like a disinterested party. And why is that? Why is he not attempting to lead, rather than continually admonish America about the importance of the topic?
Because he has NO good ideas which are politically viable. We’ve ruled out the meaninbgful changes, and the only ideas left on the table are all bad ones.
This President’s a real straight shooter, isn’t he. He’ll call someone a jackass in open air … but just don’t report it, that’s “off the record”. Just like whatever rationales are in the air about health care reform proposal specifics – they’re “off the record” and/or detailed in notes of meetings with lobbyists, but not for public airing or debate.
If you read the notes, it appears that he seeks to provide cheaper drugs for the elderly, and increased coverage for Americans, at the cost of increased taxes and medical costs for everyone else.
Rick, no one could be president with the conditions you have set forth. Any president has to be truth to his beliefs, appease the constituents of his party and then attempt to do the same thing with everyone else. Not such an easy job is it?
Jacksass was swiped. No one was talking to the ABC reporter and he/she wasn’t supposed to even hear it. And further more, so what.
Rick,
GET REAL! at best, 7 million undocumented immigrants don’t have healthcare. We are a country of over 300 million! Stop blaming immigrants and go to the REAL culprits, the insurance companies!!!!!!!
Rick,
Just wondering, did you watch the video of Wendell Potter?
Oh, the insurance companies are the villians today? We’re going to somehow save money if we regulate them or tax them more highly?
Moon-howler, you can lead without regard to popularity – Harry Truman, Ronald Reagan (I’m thinking Star Wars and the Cold war on him), Bill Clinton all set the bar a lot higher than Bush or Obama.
Elena, I’ve watched the video now.
And????
Let’s say 7 million illegal immigrants don’t have healthcare. Let’s say 10 million do. And let’s say they have 5 million children with them who will go to their (the parents) home country when they self-deport. Now let’s look at the world after they self-deport.
Our GNP is the same. Our wages go up. We have another 10 million citizens with jobs, who have health care. We now have 17 million less uninsured.
We have MASSIVE cost savings.
So, what do you say about the 17 year old dying? What do you say about a VP exec from Cigna, someone IN the health care industry telling us that REAL reform means REAL change?
It’s not about being “villians” its about being greedy, plain and simple. United Health care exec got an 18 MILLION dollar bonus last year. THAT is what’s wrong with a for profit health care system.
“So, what do you say about the 17 year old dying?”
Is Health Care reform about less people dying? Or about cost savings? Or what?
“What do you say about a VP exec from Cigna, someone IN the health care industry telling us that REAL reform means REAL change? ”
Sure. But I haven’t heard any reasonable thing proposed.
“It’s not about being “villians” its about being greedy, plain and simple. United Health care exec got an 18 MILLION dollar bonus last year. THAT is what’s wrong with a for profit health care system.”
If you want to actually go whole hog and socialize medicine … I think that may be worth doing. I’m of two minds about it. But that is NOT what’s being proposed.
What do YOU say about a President who intimates that “reform” will save us money when every measure under consideration will add to cost?
What do YOU say about Obama’s deal with the drug companies?
Rick,
How do you feel about your health care costs rising 166% within the next 10 years? What makes you so sure you know more than an ex health care VP spokesperson? IF you listened to his testimony, he gave very clear and meaningful and REASONABLE suggestions for change. There seems to be a disconnect. If we do nothing, ALL of us will be crushed under the cost of healthcare anyway.
Check this out – Obama couldn’t even find an honest example for his speech of an insurance comnpany dropping someone and this causing their death – http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/16/obama-used-faulty-anecdote-speech-congress/?test=latestnews
There is what is real, and then there is what our President tells us. the intersection between the two is far less than i am comfortable with.
Where can I get one of those “joker” posters?
“If we do nothing, ALL of us will be crushed under the cost of healthcare anyway. ”
I don’t know about “crushed”, but let’s do REASAONABLE things. time and again when there is a perceived crisis, we are fed a line of bull**** and it is eaten up or forced down our throats.
i ask again, is this about cost, or about better care and more coverage?
Potter has some good points and a few implicit ideas. I’m hearing all kinds of crazed, less reasonable nonsense coming out of Washington. The whole thing is a political squeeze, a payback to drug companies.
Basically listening to the “testimony” link I’m hearing Potter say that most of what’s currently under consideration is not worth doing.
Do I personally favor a public option? Maybe. It depends. Do I want to sell away drug reimportation in exchange for it? No. As I have said before, disentangle these issues from this “comprehensive” approach and vote them each based on merit.
We are being BAMBOOZLED. The price of health care will quite clearly soar without addressing end-of-life care standards and drug pricing/reimportation.
Once I heard Obama a few months back in a sound byte telling me that the drug companies – stockholder-based corporations who spend millions on lobbying – were not “responsible citizens”, I knew that no good would be coming down the road on this issue.
oops, typo. What i meant to say was :
Once I heard Obama a few months back in a sound byte telling me that the drug companies – stockholder-based corporations who spend millions on lobbying – were now “responsible citizens”, I knew that no good would be coming down the road on this issue.
Obama is actually looking to sell/trade away the very things that could reduce cost.
To use the vernacular of the common man, he is s***ing in your mouth and calling it a sundae.
I wish Wilson had yelled that at him …
We all know that the national economy will suffer, and millions of Americans will suffer on an individual and family basis if we do nothing, but what’s more important to the bums in Congress is who gets credit and who gets blame. There is a lot of political upside for the Republican party if Health Care Reform goes down as Democrats would be blamed for the economic and human cost that would result. That leads to a landslide election, or two.
One might not think it would incumbent on an elected official to look out for the nation they serve rather than the party they serve. But that is just not the case in American politics. Health Care can be Obama’s Waterloo. If Obama were to be defeated in 2012 and/or Republicans were to get control of Congress in 2010, we could take a second Health Care Reform with a more conservative approach and without the problem of Democrats getting credit for it.
“without the problem of democrats getting credit for it” ” a more conservative approach”
I think I feel like throwing up now.
That’s partially true about the GOP – though I don’t think they really stand to make gains if nothing good happens in America. No heroes in this mess. And the same absence of leadership at the top that Americans are used to.
This isn’t about Obama or liberalism’s Waterloo to me. It’s amazing that these two corrupt parties that domineer our existence have people publicly speaking and thinking taht way about things. America has become a place where to get anything done you have to pay tributary to one or both of our corrupt collections of elitists.
The GOP wants nothing done.
The Democrats want anything done that looks like a victory, at any cost.
“Who’s Looking Out For Me” as Bill O’Reilly would say.
O.K., we agree Rick, I think that is progress! What is being proposed now looks nothing like what Potter has recommended, which would most likely result in real savings and better coverage for all citizens. Right now, everyone in Congress, D’s and R’s, are making me feel pretty hopeless that any real good with come of insurance reform.
Everyone agrees that we must fix our health care system. However, I’ve seen many medical professionals say the way it is currently proposed is not the way to fix it. There also seems to be a great rush to get something done right away – rather than taking the time to really go about fixing it the right way. And, the President also tries to lie and say “it won’t add a dime to the federal deficit”! Who is he think he’s trying to fool? Things like that make me skeptical that we are going about this the right way. Yes, it needs to be fixed, and we need healthcare reform, but probably not the way Congress and the President is going about it. Not when they are trying to rush it through, and with the continual theme “we can’t waste any time”, etc. etc.
GR,
A Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF) study published in Monday’s New England Journal of Medicine shows that 63 percent of physicians support a health reform proposal that includes both a public option and traditional private insurance.
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/14/majority-of-doctors-back_n_286352.html
@Elena
Uhh, not no but “hell no”. That cost gets spread out to all of us who are whining about the escalating costs of health care. You’re not serious about cutting costs if you’re willing to take on the costs of all illegal immigrants. BS!!!
Of course, this problem has been growing for decades, and it’s not a “crisis” right now any more than it was 10 years ago, or any more than it will be in 5 years. What IS true is that reform is needed, everyone agrees with that, precisely because it’s a long-standing problem that will only get worse. But for that matter, the same situation exists with social security, medicare, the list goes on. Libs need this to be a “crisis” so they can justify passing a bill that’s more of a power grab by Leviathan than actual health care reform. Just like the “crisis” they cried about with the stimulus. The booger of it is, I bet we on this blog could come up with a workable list of reforms on both sides that would be better than any crap the congress produces.
Step one needs to be medical malpractice reform… my wife works directly for a doctor who pays over $35,000.00 a year (and only goes up every year) for malpractice insurance. That alone would save tons but dems don’t want to touch it because they get tons of cash from lawyer PAC groups.
@Elena
To counter the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation study….
“45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul”
Read more at: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199
Excerpt:
” Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration’s claims that doctors are part of an “unprecedented coalition” supporting a medical overhaul.
It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a “majority of physicians want public and private insurance options,” and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday’s front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline “Doctors Go For Obama’s Reform.” “
HUH? Private AND PUBLIC, exaclty what should happen in my opinion
What it says is that those doctors OPPOSE the public option.
Indeed, I think medical malpractice reform should be part of it, but the Dems won’t do that as it would hurt too many of their lawyer friends. That is a huge part of what is driving up medical costs.
It also means if mass numbers of doctors leave their practice, we’ll have a whole new problem to worry about – a shortage of doctors. Let’s see what effect that will have on the whole healthcare system. I imagine it won’t be a good thing. While some of those threats may be empty threats, even if 10% of the doctors quit it wouldn’t be a good thing.
For example – http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=10975315 – about doctors opposing it because it does not include tort reform.