There were a number of things that disappointed me in this article in the Manassas Journal Messenger, including a huge mistake in misquoting Chief Deane. But this part disappointed me, puzzled me, and pissed me off. The writer editorializes that 9500 Liberty,
works to demonize board Chairman Corey Stewart, R-at large, who was running for re-election in 2007 when he and Supervisor John T. Stirrup, R-Gainesville, pushed to pass the resolution.
I’m not sure what the writer was thinking when he added this perspective to what is supposed to be a straight news article. First of all, there is no call for using such a strong word. Second of all, the film does not “work” to do anything other than show Chairman Stewart being very good at what he does. If you like the idea of immigration culture wars dividing your community right before an election, Corey is no demon in this film, he’s a saint. No one in the film criticizes him. No one who spoke after the film directly criticized him. In fact, his name didn’t even come up. I was among a number of audience members who were shocked that certain of the Chairman’s most dastardly deeds were NOT included in the film. I wasn’t going to respond to the comment other than to say I agreed, but this was posted yesterday by Last Best Hope:
Billed as a film that “makes Corey Stewart look like an idiot” (this was the big quote in a MJM article from someone who got a sneak preview), the film revealed nothing I did not already know about him, while omitting many of the things he did to make himself look, if not idiotic, at least unhinged. There was nothing about Stewart instantaneously forwarding internal BOCS emails to Greg Letiecq so that the Letiecq Internet Frenzy machine could be used to bully the Board into firing Chief Deane. That was Stewart’s lowest moment and a glaring omission from the film. Stewart’s second lowest moment, or most brilliant depending on your agenda, was using county funds to send out a political post card during his “fighting illegal immigration” reelection campaign setting up the circus act BOCS meeting in Oct. 2007. While this is 10 times more predictable, it was also 10 times more infamous and more discussed at the time. I was looking forward to seeing Maureen Caddigan’s brilliant move to hold the Chairman’s feet to the fire when he tried to limit the very people he invited to participate to only one minute at the podium. I believe Stewart lost the vote 6 to 2, and the result was 12 hours of Citizens’ Time to delay a vote that was already decided before they showed up. But this was skipped as well.
Last Best Hope concludes by saying, “Basically Stewart is not in the film other than Board meetings, and I’m not sure this alone makes him look like an idiot.” I could not agree more. If anything, the film was soft on Corey Stewart, considering how it should, or could have been made. Much was left out that could follow Corey politically.
Speaking of soft pedaling, I thought the film went too easy on Mr. Fernandez as well. Most people I have talked to say that his sign hurt the Hispanic community more than helped it, by handing Greg Letiecq a perfect gift with which to demonize (here is where the word is apt) the Hispanic community. Greg got more mileage out of that sign. He signed up more people because of it than he ever would have with his laughably manipulative pictures of men with ski-masks holding machine guns.
The voice over in the film criticizes the wording of the third sign, which was over-the-top offensive, but only because the inflammatory language could endanger his kids. A fair point, but it did more than endanger kids, it pissed a lot of people off, of all races, who might not otherwise have been that critical of the sign. Fernandez insulted the very people who were actually trying to help; the coalition of people who were working to fight back the powers of darkness ended up being included in the broad-brush insult.
And, at least when I started on here – if you wrote about being in support of the current form of the resolution, you were labeled as both racist and part of a German movement in WWII. I know I was personally, by one of the frequent posters on this blog. It is funny that the claim is this blog exists becuase of the “absolute vileness” of Greg and bvbl. Apparently, it also can be just as vile, and the excuse is it is because of bvbl being vile. It’s like children – each one tries to top the other one. People have been vilified plenty on this blog, false accusations have been made, etc.
Also, some posters on this blog like to celebrate the fact in their eyes PWC is the most racist place. They may deny it, but they hype that. Although it is funny – I used to live in Manassas and I travel a lot – and all anyone elsewhere in the USA or other places outside says to me – is that’s the place the Civil War took place. Certain people here have posted that Manassas or PWC is known all over the world for the immigration debate – and I find nothing further from the truth. They’d like it to be that way to support their position – but I’ve found no evidence of that. And, some people here make that point for their own personal gain, too, I’m afraid. I see not any difference between them and Greg – they are two sides of the same coin. They spew their own hatred, and make a mockery out of real historical events of significance, and insult those who were affected by those events.
So much for the topic. I see the usual whiners – who haven’t seen the film – are busy moving the thread off topic.
When I read the MJM reporter’s review, the word “demonize” popped out for me as well. And for the same reason. I think the film cut Corey a lot of slack.
My problem with the film was that I’d seen several versions of it and had viewed all of the YouTube clips, so I came away feeling that a lot of material hadn’t been covered. (And, Rick, this is where we all know that much footage is left on the cutting room floor.) This unique process which Annabel and Eric employed (the YouTube videos as well as the film) illustrates the drawbacks and strengths of both methods. The strength, to me, is in the wealth of material available to viewers of the videos. They give us a glimpse into how much material filmmakers have to work with. The drawback is that we all have our personal opinions about what should have made it into the final film. Some of us will want the film to concentrate on the political manipulations of Corey Stewart; some of us want the emphasis to be on neighborhood zoning, police issues; some of us want FAIR to be shown as the manipulative busybody it was; and some of us want the emphasis to be on how fear can overrun a community – as well as dozens of other choices. I think each of these ideas could have been the centerpiece of a film about what happened here.
Perhaps I feel that Corey – as BOCS Chairman – got off easily because I hold him more accountable for the tone of the debate and the resulting action – not just because he chose an opportunistic path to re-election but because as Chairman (supervisor-at-large)he needs to consider the financial health and community relations of the entire county. And he at least needs to be able to tell the truth when he rushes to a microphone.
Keep demonizing, keep trying to polarize the community. Citizens who saw their neighborhoods decline won’t stand for a replay of pre-resolution times, and any public official who caves and tries to rewind the clock will pay a steep electoral price. It happened in Herndon; it will happen here, and anti-bvbl will have done its part. Like I said, it’s the law of unintended consequences
@Elena
Funny, I do remember a poster here referencing Greg’s children, and fearing for their safety. The suggestion was their safety was in danger, which was a pretty silly thing to say. I thought that comment was pretty offensive.
And, calling people racists when they aren’t, is pretty bad too – but it happens so often here on antibvbl that the term racist has been rendered meaningless and everyone has grown numb to it. I could easily find 50 posts in no time at all doing that.
Again, antibvbl likes to say that it (or its posters) take a higher road than bvbl, when it can easily be shown they don’t. Calling people racists, other bad things, is just as bad as calling other people cockroaches. But apparently here on antibvbl that’s not seen that way, and if you want to keep on believing that, that’s fine. Comparing the county’s chairman to a notorious figure in history responsible for the killing of 6 million people – apparently that’s not bad either – even though it was done here by one poster. You can’t have all these things said on here and then say that antibvbl takes a higher road than bvbl.
“If you even dared to speak out against Greg you landed on his blog, being villifed and having your occupaton threatened. ”
Yeah – he’s about the most Unchristian person I’ve ever seen undertaking political activism.
“The hatefullness that people expressed towards Hispanics was palpable, THAT was the result of Greg and his blogging.”
No. Not at all. Do you ascribe all good things and all altruistic mtives to this blog or to your efforts? It is a denial of reality on your part to ascribe the things you don’t like, the reactions you don’t approve of, to Greg. He did not create this anger, and I don’t think he sought to drum it up either. He provided an outlet for some of it via his blog and an organized political movement. But the anger’s existence is due to our government’s abrogation of law when it suits them, and abject lack of concern for most of our lives.
“the way that Corey handled it” Any other way, and maybe we would/could have voted all 9 supervisors out, Herndon-style. I know that that’s what i was hoping for, before there was an HSM.
@Censored bybvbl
It’s on topic because demonization of Corey Stewart was brought up – and there’s plenty of evidence he’s been demonized a lot on this blog. Anyone who denies that is delusional.
Elena, no, offensive comments are offensive comments, period. I personally do not like seeing people compared to Hitler or called Nazis. I find that quite dehumanizing, and I’m surprised that you would NOT feel the same way. They are be compared to pure EVILNESS. By the same token, I do NOT want to see any human being thought of as anything less than a human.
I do not wish ill fortune on anyone. I’ve always said the human factor is all to often left out of the debate. I never stated anyone on ANTI made their claims on daily basis. Luckily, for all of us those terms are not used on this board as often as they once were.
As far as whiners Censored, there’s plenty of people here who whine all the time about what goes on at bvbl. Apparently, it’s OK here to whine about that. If you called out those people too perhaps you’d be making a fair point.
As to the e-mails, they should be public. I see no problem with Stewart helping to make them public. If you want to see his e-mails, ask for them.
Lafayette, somehow they blindly defend the whole Hitler thing – it amazes me. The latest right on the eve of the Jewish High Holy period – showing either an extreme insensitivity or utter disregard or just ignorance of that solemn period. Apparently though, that’s just fine, even though it is offensive to many people. And, calling someone a Nazi who is Jewish – let’s not even go there, but that was done, just because they made a post that said they agreed with the current form of the resolution.
“and some of us want the emphasis to be on how fear can overrun a community”
Bull. The only “fear” existed in the minds of people who had no business living here and burdening the community. Everyone else, save a sheltered few who were either unaffected by their presence or were profiting from them, were happy to see them go.
Did the Resolution cause the foreclosure crisis? To the extent that lenders extended mortgages to noncitizens and default risks, which is essentially what occurred nationwide. Nothing unique there.
GR, I think everyone here has heard the spiel about the words “racist” and “Nazi”. You bring up that topic more than anyone else here. (And you can pussyfoot around that topic, but racism and white supremacy exist.) It’s Corey’s duty as Chair to make sure that those elements don’t drive policy.
Emma, you obviously didn’t watch the marathon BOCS meeting or you would have heard some white residents expressing their fear of Hispanics and “illegals”. Or you weren’t reading BVBL at the time.
Emma, you are right on target with the foreclosures.I would also, add greedy realtors, and even the sellers. The houses in older established neighborhoods had NO business being sold at the inflated prices they were. The other thing is the foreclosures of these loans started in late 2006. That’s a good six months before the resolution was even introduced. That seems to get left out of the equation. I remember addressing the board in May of 2007, and spoke of the dramaitc increase in foreclosures I’d seen first hand due to my job. I went from seeing about a foreclosure title search per week to an average of 5 per DAY over the first six months of 2007.
I didn’t bring it up on here and another place right at the start of the Jewish High Holy period, which I found extra offensive. Every time this blog claims it takes the high road on thing, I’ll continue to remind everyone of it.
I never said racism and white supremacy doesn’t exist. Oh, I forgot – another favorite thing of certain posters is putting words in people’s mouth. Sorry, I’ll continue to let you put words in my mouth. In fact, that’s how a lot of this got started – someone intentionally misquoted me and put words in my mouth, and another poster jumped on the bandwagon with those two terms that you protest being mentioned so much! It’s good to know you continue the time honored traidition of: when you can’t attack what a poster says, put words in their mouth saying I’m pussyfooting around a topic, and inferring racism and white supremacy don’t exist. Let me take a few minutes and find some creative words to put in your mouth…
“The houses in older established neighborhoods had NO business being sold at the inflated prices they were.”
Well, in the new third world we were heading to, a single family house is intended to house several families. So then the prices make sense.
Some here probably think that’s hyperbole. but in 2005, 2006 nearl;y every one of the 10 houses on my block that sold were bought up by people who appear to be illegal aliens, or housing illegal aliens, and had on the order of 10 people living in them.
And it stands to reason, the jurisdiction with a higher percentage of affordable housing and lower incomes, would be hit the hardest by any foreclosure crisis. I submit PWC still would have been at the top, and nearly double or whatever the exact figure is, if the resolution had never happened. Let’s not forget – as stated on here at times, many of those affected were employed by the construction industry. So you have a double hit – as those jobs evaporate so do their means of income and they have no choice but to abandon their houses. It isn’t rocket science to figure out that leads to a much higher foreclosure rate. However, at times on here it has been “hyped” that the resolution is the lead cause of PWC’s foreclosure issues.
I don’t know if they were illegal – but at least half the townhouses on my block were flophouses with 10 or more people living in them. Interestingly, those are the ones that went in foreclosure. Not only that, several of them, including the one next to me, were bought at the height of the housing bubble – it was bought for $360K and used as a flophouse from day one. No way even in mint condition it was worth that. In fact, I’m still trying to understand the economics of buying a townhouse for $360K and instantly converting it to a flophouse (renovating the basement to make it such). I don’t see how one could ever have turned a profit of any kind on it. That flophouse is now up for sale for $150K – so they are going to take quite a hit on their investment. I don’t have any idea how much rent they took in during that time, but couldn’t have been too much. It now appears they’ve renovated it for sale – and taken out all the extra bedrooms they stuck in the basement. I can’t imagine the owners made any money on it – so it is kind of baffling the economics of a flophouse – other than the fact it reduces the value of the neighborhood it is in.
Heck, not just single family houses – townhouses too. One time, the City of Manassas investigated the flophouse next to me – 12 people living there – 3 separate “families” and 4 completely single independent people! All of this in what was originally a 3 bedroom townhouse! Astonishing!
“I know there have been things said on Anti that do not express the best of people’s intentons”
That being said, Elena, where are YOU when the sharks here have circled, sometimes rather cruelly?
Always, and conspicuously, silent.
@Elena
Elena, I would not be too insulted that the two blogs are compared. For a long time we thought Letiecq’s blog was just a fad. But then we saw it dominate the minds of our BOCS and we became alarmed. How could one blog, which was highly manipulated with anonymous hatred embraced but words of reason censored, have so much impact on the direction of county government?
This blog came about just in time to save the county. That’s what I believe. It saved the county. As silly as it was to have these seasoned politicians running scarred at the idea of being defamed by a sociopath liar on the internet, they were indeed running scared. I believe that part of the reason was that part of the hatred on Letiecq’s blog was manifesting in at Citizens Time and in the public in general. Anger, hate, fear, racism, all the worst emotions were spreading and there seemed no way to stop it.
Then this blog came along and started mocking Letiecq’s blog. They mocked Letiecq so badly that he shrunk in size in the public’s mind. He never regained his size either. It doesn’t matter that some of the low lifes used to post on Letiecq’s blog now post here from time to time. It’s inevitable if you aren’t going to censor people for content.
So now there is a shared membership between the two on-line discussion forums, only one is run by a sassy lady and the other is run by a resentful shrunken man.
You should be proud to be spoken of in the same breath as BVBL. It was Anti-BVBL that neutralized BVBL. Without that, we’d be bankrupting the county with law suits and our reputation would have been sullied for ever (not just years).
Frequently some posters on this blog would have you believe if Greg wasn’t around there would be no one angry about the situation in PWC – no one angry about overcrowding, etc. They also would like you to believe no one has a mind of their own and just follows Greg’s lead. That whole train of thought is just plain idiotic. It is indeed correct to say Greg did not create that anger – those who caused the problems created it.
What I find odd is that it seems like most people here who ‘demonize’ the resolution and those that support it don’t live in areas that are most effected by illegal immigrants. They don’t live next to multiple day labor sites (where someone was murdered last summer), they don’t have gang graffiti all over their community, they don’t have to think twice about letting their children outside, they don’t have a checks cashing place every two blocks where people get robbed, they don’t live in these neighborhoods…
Yet somehow they seem to know the most about them and pass judgement on those who support measures to improve their living conditions.
And some of its’ posters did their best to promote the county as a racist place. Since this blog is ascribed such an important role in the history of the county, it needs to take credit for that too. Some posters did their best to trash the county on this blog, so make sure and take credit for the trashing of the county. I know the response already – no, the resolution trashed the county. Not entirely so – and again posters on this blog stated the county deserved (or was) known “worldwide” as one of the most racist places in the USA. Instead of not wanting to promote that false image, they were more than happy too, and they deny it, but they celebrated that claim, because it fit their personal agenda.
Lafayette, I COMPLETELY misread you early on, and I take back anything I have said to attack your views. I should have read more carefully back then.
It’s easy for people like Eric, who don’t have to live in these conditions to come in from out of town and make a ‘documentary’ about it. It’s easy for other people to sit in their cozy house in a non-MS13 infested neighborhood with not a day labor place in sight and blog about how ‘racist’ people are for wanting something done about illegal immigrants.
What is hard is living in these areas and being called every name in the book for wanting something done about it. Wanting to be able to let your kids walk down the street.
@hello
I don’t know about that, but from my own personal experience I will say I care a lot less about all of this now that I was able to extract myself from my former neighborhood. However, as I still own property there, it still makes me care about it. Once I no longer own property there – in a year and a half or so – then I think I won’t care a whole lot about this whole subject, unless it somehow starts to creep into my new neighborhood. However, I don’t observe any flophouses there, even though I estimate it is about 20% Hispanic, it is all Hispanic single families, which is fine.
What made my angry about my old neighborhood was the startling increase in crime rate from the time the flophouse activity started. The statistics are all there in the police records – the neighborhood was relatively crime free and then went in no time at all to being a fairly high crime area. Any given night a police car was pulled over somewhere there investigating some incident. In addition, I saw an astoundingly large number of Hispanic on Hispanic fights that the police had to break up down by Stonewall Park, which I had a clear view of out my living room window. None of this ever happened before 2004 or so. The decline from 2004 to now has been quite astonishing.
Stewart doesn’t need help making himself look like an ass. He does quite well on his own.
And no wonder why property values in my neighborhood dropped from a peak of $360K or so (which was outlandish) to actually the sub-$100K range early in this year. They’ve rebounded astonishingly fast though to the $150K range, with some properties recently selling for $170K.
See – a perfect example, calling someone an ass. Just part of the general tone of this blog in trashing people.
In following this thread I can’t help but notice (warning Geek Alert) that in the words of James T. Kirk “You’ve managed to kill everyone else, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target!”. That goes for all of you on both sides of the issue. Don’t for a moment think that was not the intent of several members of the BOCS from the outset. Collectively, many of you have gotten so distracted by demonology and demagogery that the underlying circumstances and actions have been lost. Similarly, don’t for a moment believe that distraction from other issues wasn’t the underlying basis of their intent.
Corey and John serve as the lightning rods but in the greater scheme of things Caddigan, Nohe and Covington are no less responsible.
Think about it for a minute, during the “debate” all other issues were minimized or lost in the storm. Actions were taken, resolutions passed and issues buried with little or no notice by the public as the focus was almost entirely on the “debate”. The issue became so large that for a period of months it was impossible to effectively utilize citizens time, get a word in edgewise on other issues or engage the supervisors regarding anything else. Face it, you were all used by the board members for their own purposes be it re-election, deflection from other issues or political/personal opportunism.
Resolution supporters should question the motivation and subsequent actions of Nohe and Caddigan while opponents should wonder what Wally was really up to.
Yep, that would typical [redacted] for ya… It’s been a few days, it’s almost time for her Nazi references to start back up again…
[ED. NOTE: Contributors are not permitted to out other users. Use the moniker the person posts under.]
No question, every board member had an agenda. How is that a surprise? All politicians have agendas, and some choose to hide them more than others until the right time. Go find me an honest politician with no hidden agenda. It will be a long long wait….
I’ve been called every name in the book. You don’t see me crying like a baby. Whaaaaaaa!
If you can’t see the historical context, then you obviously can’t or don’t read read–history books, philosophy books or my postings.
If you act like a neo-Nazi, I’m going to say it. TFB.
Pinko, are you speaking for yourself, or just reflecting the views of our local newspaper?
@Last Best Hope
True that. AntiBVBL and BVBL belong in the same sentence. It’s like, “AntiBVBL spanked BVBL.”
Just like the Yankees spanked the Twins and now will spank the Angels. You don’t hear the Yankees complaining to be mentioned in the same sentence as the Orioles, right? The Yankees dominate the Orioles, sad to say. No one in New York complains about that though.
The problem is you’ve accused people of being Nazis who just simply said “I like the resolution in its current form” where that is the latest form (post “probable cause”). Apparently your definition of a neo-Nazi is an interesting one. The evidence is all back in the archives. So go ahead and keep using your completely wrong definition. then again you didn’t use the phrase “neo” at that time, so maybe I’m misunderstanding something. Whatever, you had the extreme poor taste lately in bringing the whole thing up during the Jewish High Holy period. Just shows no sensitivity, or maybe the timing was on purpose.
[ED. Note: It was NOT brought up on this blog other than by 2 people who wanted to jump all over someone for something written on another blog. I cannot make this any clearer. From now on, all references to this will simply be removed without explanation.]
Hello, Emma said there was no fear driving the resolution – except on the part of illegal immigrants. Which is it? Fear or no fear?
I want one of you pro-resolution people to tell me how your resolution helps me. All my problems with overcrowding, junk cars, noisy dogs, trashy yards, etc. have been caused by native white people. How does the resolution help me? In fact, it seems to have squandered money that could have been used for more of the problem solvers – the regular policeman/woman on the beat, NS, etc. (We already had the 287(g) program at the jail.) You all never answer. And, Hello, I’ve lived in older mixed neighborhoods. In fact, I’ve been in my present one for more than 25 years.
@Emma
I speak for myself, I represent only myself, just as I do when I testify at Citizen’s Time. That is all I have ever done.
@hello
Hello, when the world condemned Apartheid, it wasn’t because we all lived in South Africa. A threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice anywhere. I don’t live in the part of the county where people got the nastiest. But that I still got a say in whether I want the entire county to be known for what these knuckleheads are saying.
GR, I don’t have time to find it for you. But the fact that you didn’t find it doesn’t mean it ain’t there. Someone posted about a FOIA request for security cam footage of the two of them leaving the office together at 2 AM. I didn’t start the rumor.
@GainesvilleResident
Let me put it this way, as well: if you go off like you are a follower of HSM, then I probably thought your were a hater like its leader. In some cases, I have been wrong, and I have apologized for that, just as some people have thought I am the most unreasonable bitch in the world and have discovered quite otherwise.
HOWEVER, HSM promotes the thinking of the Nazis–that some people are sub-human, that some people are roaches which in turn means they must be exterminated, that brown skinned people are not wanted and that we will repel an invasion with weapons against weapons of “anchor babies” if we have to. They promise people safety and cleanliness. They do it through fear tactics. They lie to the public and cause hysteria. They promote group-think.
Sorry. These people in my book act like Nazis and if they don’t like that assessment…TFB.
GR, I’m curious when you say:
“I don’t know about that, but from my own personal experience I will say I care a lot less about all of this now that I was able to extract myself from my former neighborhood. However, as I still own property there, it still makes me care about it. Once I no longer own property there – in a year and a half or so – then I think I won’t care a whole lot about this whole subject, unless it somehow starts to creep into my new neighborhood”
Using that logic, why should the rest of us care about what happened to you when you lived in PoW? Why should we care about Emma’s neighborhood or Rick’s neighborhood? Why should most of the people in this county (who were unaffected by your problems) care? I’m curious.
So saying the simple phrase (which is all I did) “I support the resolution in its current form” is enough to make me a follower of bvbl. I know in your eyes it did – in the same response you told me to “go back to my scumhole”. Oh, I know, that’s not at all like calling people cockroaches and the like. Well, in your imagination everyone who supports the resolution is a follower of Greg or a Greg-clone or something. So, I guess by that definition I “did go off like I was a follower of bvbl”. It’s the oft repeated thing – anyone who supports the resolution doesn’t have a mind of their own – gets all their thoughts from Greg, etc. highly insulting. I guess that makes a lot of people in PWC Nazi’s, which I’m sure is fine with you since you seem to enjoy saying it so much. Hopefully you can find another group of religious people to insult during one of their more solemn holiday periods.
I would have to say that for me, and I can speak for everyone, fear for my and my families safety played a part. When there are murders within walking distance of your home and gang graffiti all around your community there is fear there.
How does the resolution help you… correct me if I’m wrong but all of the problems you just described can easily be fix by our current zoning laws. At least that is the claim anyway right, zoning laws can take care of 10 cars in the front and back yards of homes, 20 guys in the same 2 bedroom house, etc… gee censored, why don’t you just utilize the current zoning laws?
JustinT, I remember the mention of the security camera footage as well, but don’t remember where I read it.