There were a number of things that disappointed me in this article in the Manassas Journal Messenger, including a huge mistake in misquoting Chief Deane. But this part disappointed me, puzzled me, and pissed me off. The writer editorializes that 9500 Liberty,
works to demonize board Chairman Corey Stewart, R-at large, who was running for re-election in 2007 when he and Supervisor John T. Stirrup, R-Gainesville, pushed to pass the resolution.
I’m not sure what the writer was thinking when he added this perspective to what is supposed to be a straight news article. First of all, there is no call for using such a strong word. Second of all, the film does not “work” to do anything other than show Chairman Stewart being very good at what he does. If you like the idea of immigration culture wars dividing your community right before an election, Corey is no demon in this film, he’s a saint. No one in the film criticizes him. No one who spoke after the film directly criticized him. In fact, his name didn’t even come up. I was among a number of audience members who were shocked that certain of the Chairman’s most dastardly deeds were NOT included in the film. I wasn’t going to respond to the comment other than to say I agreed, but this was posted yesterday by Last Best Hope:
Billed as a film that “makes Corey Stewart look like an idiot” (this was the big quote in a MJM article from someone who got a sneak preview), the film revealed nothing I did not already know about him, while omitting many of the things he did to make himself look, if not idiotic, at least unhinged. There was nothing about Stewart instantaneously forwarding internal BOCS emails to Greg Letiecq so that the Letiecq Internet Frenzy machine could be used to bully the Board into firing Chief Deane. That was Stewart’s lowest moment and a glaring omission from the film. Stewart’s second lowest moment, or most brilliant depending on your agenda, was using county funds to send out a political post card during his “fighting illegal immigration” reelection campaign setting up the circus act BOCS meeting in Oct. 2007. While this is 10 times more predictable, it was also 10 times more infamous and more discussed at the time. I was looking forward to seeing Maureen Caddigan’s brilliant move to hold the Chairman’s feet to the fire when he tried to limit the very people he invited to participate to only one minute at the podium. I believe Stewart lost the vote 6 to 2, and the result was 12 hours of Citizens’ Time to delay a vote that was already decided before they showed up. But this was skipped as well.
Last Best Hope concludes by saying, “Basically Stewart is not in the film other than Board meetings, and I’m not sure this alone makes him look like an idiot.” I could not agree more. If anything, the film was soft on Corey Stewart, considering how it should, or could have been made. Much was left out that could follow Corey politically.
Speaking of soft pedaling, I thought the film went too easy on Mr. Fernandez as well. Most people I have talked to say that his sign hurt the Hispanic community more than helped it, by handing Greg Letiecq a perfect gift with which to demonize (here is where the word is apt) the Hispanic community. Greg got more mileage out of that sign. He signed up more people because of it than he ever would have with his laughably manipulative pictures of men with ski-masks holding machine guns.
The voice over in the film criticizes the wording of the third sign, which was over-the-top offensive, but only because the inflammatory language could endanger his kids. A fair point, but it did more than endanger kids, it pissed a lot of people off, of all races, who might not otherwise have been that critical of the sign. Fernandez insulted the very people who were actually trying to help; the coalition of people who were working to fight back the powers of darkness ended up being included in the broad-brush insult.
LBH – the point is it is wrong whoever does it. AND, it was done right here on this blog – way (more than a year) before the current trend. The fact the Repubs are doing it does not make it RIGHT. Again, comparing someone to the leader of that movement is the same as comparing that person to a mass murderer. If your defense of it is that the Republicans are doing it now, not much of one considering they weren’t doing it more than a year ago. That thread just posted is not at all what I’m complaining about – even though it is over the top, not so much so as the direct “one person to another person” comparison made in yet another thread.
So is it the “fringe left” doing the comparison here? Surely you don’t want to claim it is not part of the fringe element on the left side?
It’s good to know that LBH endorses the comparison made here.
Since this blog likes to claim it is well read and seen by many people, perhaps the Republicans actually took their cue from that post on this blog made more than a year ago! You never know!
Of course at the same time often it is claimed how little bvbl is read, yet more often than not several posters who make that same claim get overly concerned whatever is the current thing being written over there!
LBH, “purported foundation” and abuse of the “public trust” are indeed the key to this whole fiasco. The problem I have always had with Corey is that any plank in his foundation can be viewed as “purported” as he has consistently proven that he will abuse the public trust in order to bend to the winds of political expediency as a means toward higher office. Fortunately, as you have surmised, most REAL conservatives have seen behind the curtain and a position higher than what he has already attained is at best unlikely. My fear is that Corey does not yet realized the true consequences of his actions and that he will pander to some equally divisive and deleterious elements in an effort to pad his war chest for his next campaign. Much as I disagree with Principi (on virtually everything) and don’t know quite what to make of May, I will have to concede that they alone among the BOCS members (perhaps because they are not yet jaded enough) appear to stick to their principles, the same can not be said for faux Republicans like Caddigan, Nohe and Covington, opportunistic Dems like Jenkins or self-serving creatures like Corey.
I’m not sure you can make the statement that “real conservatives” would oppose a tax increase if it helped promote something they were in favor of. Some “real conservatives” – sure, but not all.
Shame shame. You people have dirty minds. I wasn’t saying Letiecq and Stewart are gay lovers. Letiecq hates gays anyway. He used to write about that all the time on his blog, and isn’t proclaiming hatred for gays the best possible proof that you aren’t one?
It was not I who started that train of discussion. Although, I’m just starting putting words in people’s mouths – just like others have done to me in this thread and a few others lately.
Still, the only “proof” you have is that it was written on here somewhere in the past, which is not what I would call proof. Plenty of posts on here have been blatant lies or mistruths.
@Mom
Excellent post, Mom. May and Principi are my favorites also. But I like Caddigan for her spunk, and I like Marty for always playing the role of mediator.
You didn’t mention Covington. I’d put him in the category of principled, just based on the few votes I’ve paid attention to. Like he voted for Duecaster on the grounds that Stirrup should be able to choose a lunatic to represent him on the Human Services Board, and he stuck to that principle, rather than doing a flip flop later like Stewart and Stirrup. Stirrup is my least favorite. He always looks like a gambler who just lost a bet and is looking for someone to blame.
Actually, it is interesting about this so-called FOIA request. Now, why would anyone even KNOW to request such a tape – why would they suppose such a tape exists of two people walking out of the buliding at 2 AM in the morning? It doesn’t make logical sense. Unless sitting there in the parking lot waiting to see who comes out of the building at that time – which perhaps is possible. Even so, what of it? What would their purpose even be of exposing such a thing? It’s more of a commentary on the person making the FOIA request than those who are the subjects of such a request.
Dude, I wasn’t trying to prove the Hate Brothers are gay, alright!? I was just fishing for some dirt. What are they doing at 2 AM? It’s a fair question.
TFF. GR, you and I are on the same page. You said it better, but alls I wanted to know was what they were doing at 2 AM, and yeah, who else was there that saw them. That sort of thing is irrelevant but it’s good dirt.
How do you know it wasn’t even right after some meeting that ran late? Who knows, and who cares. Well, at least you admit to fishing for some dirt – that’s something.
On another subject – it is interesting the words that are put in my mouth – someone takes two successive posts by me, and takes a few words out of the context I said to make them sound really sensational – without providing the context I said them. Typical. Misquoting to suit their objective and then being outraged at the out of context misquote. If it was done to them they’d be all over it, I’m sure. However, there’s no misquoting the comparison done back then, for all the outrage later on when the same thing was said about the President. It was wrong when it was said about him, and it was wrong when it was said about Corey Stewart. It was interesting the hypocrisy though when there was all that outrage about it being said about the President. Maybe the idea is it is OK to say it about a local government official. One supposes the President should be treated with more dignity than a local official, but in either case, the comparison was totally groundless and uncalled for. I don’t remember much outrage on here when the comparison was done at the time, unlike the outrage when it was directed at the President. Both times there should have been much outrage – unfortunately when it happened locally there wasn’t a whole lot, which was surprising and a bit shocking.
@Rick Bentley
I absolutely agree. And as I mentioned somewhere before, I realize not many people agree with my theories. Oh well. I’m not here to be popular.
And I will say, the more I read that other thread about the SS, the more unbelievable it is that it was said with a straight face that there was the possibility something like that would happen here. Either I’m mistaken about the date – but that post appears to be AFTER the resolution was modified to its current form. Seems to be strange timing in that case, as there no longer was the probable cause statute. Anyway, if a thread like that can be posted seriously on here – no one should be in that much disbelief that other stronger things were said by certain posters. I actually never thought any of the “admins” would post a thread like that – it was a bit before my time on this board. Kind of a shocking thread the more I read it – I was unaware of it until today.
@JustinT
OK, I’ll buy that – someone just sniffing for some good dirt. There’s probably nothing really wrong with that. All politicians do that on the opposition. As long as we say that’s what it was, and not for some nobler purpose, I’m fine with it.
TFB, GR. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. No one is taping your eyeballs open making you read my posts.
Thank you, Mom, for some conservative home cooking. @Mom I wouldn’t use the word “demon,” I wouldn’t use the word “ass,” and I wouldn’t use the word “idiot.” But whatever word it is that Corey Stewart’s behavior conjures up in the minds of voters, the thing that will haunt him THE MOST from this film is (1) the attack on Chief Deane and (2) the big production he made about trying to raise our taxes just for his own ego.
(I say that because he the film gives him a pass on the email sharing spy game he played with Letiecq, and the electioneering post cards on taxpayer dime.)
Yes, but you deny you work to make the county’s image look bad when you make such statements. And I hope someone makes a mockery of your religion on some religious holiday! Then I’ll be the one to say TFB. Nice use of language by the way – that and the other post when you compared Corey to a piece of anatomy. Lots of class. TFB as you say.
Apparently one can’t criticize posts, instead we are supposed to stay silent! Quite interesting, actually.
Apparently one can’t criticize posts, instead we are supposed to stay silent! Quite interesting, actually. I think it is proper to continue to speak out against flagrant miscomparisons about the present and the past. If you don’t like that, TFB!
Not sure what happened – shouldn’t have been a double post. Very strange glitch.
And the problem is, a debate here with certain posters right away degenerates to name calling, which is unfortunate. With those posters, a civilized debate is impossible.
It should concern every person on here that some individuals had more access to your supervisor-at-large than you and your neighbors did.
Why on earth would a certain blogger get the emails sent to the at-large supervisor the same day? That is the most unorthodox FOIA request I have ever heard of.
How would many of you all feel if Alanna was down there sitting at the right hand of Corey Stewart? How would you feel if the emails from other supervisors were handed off to her to post here?
ahhh…the worm turns I see.
Much talk moved away from the way our county did business. To those of you who live(d) in neighborhoods that became blighted–I don’t think anyone on this blog has not acknowledged that you have very legitimate concerns. I know that I have always acknowledged the overcrowding, the limited parking, the damage some have done to personal property.
The Resolution didn’t make this all better. The economy did. There are still areas and houses that are horribly problematic. Some of those areas have been problematic for decades. Other areas, the problems have arisen more recently.
I don’t want people from across the United States making decisions for our area. I don’t like being bowled over by policy that springs from no where.
I don’t like that normal discussion was replaced by screaming of sound-bites like ‘Rule of Law’ and ‘illegal is illegal.’
And Rick, thanks, I didn’t think you meant me. We have always had a spirited but courteous exchange.
@Moon-howler
FOIA the FOIA, MH. I bet you won’t find one.
I agree the resolution didn’t make this all better, and it was the economy. In fact I said that right up above in this thread earlier today. I also say unlike what some people want you to believe, the resolution didn’t cause the housing collapse in PWC, the economy did. The resolution’s effect on that can only be minimal.
I’m sure there’s plenty of “unfair access” given to people like 9500 Liberty filmmakers too if one wants to argue the point. Both certain HSM members and 9500 Liberty filmmakers probably had more access to the supervisors than the average citizen did. If you are going to say it is unfair for one to have more access than the other, that isn’t a winning argument.
MH understands the concept of a sprited exchange without namecalling. Some others on this blog fail to grasp that concept unfortunately. They seem to think it is OK – well it is if you like uncivilized debates.
@GainesvilleResident
Holy crap, GR! GET OVER IT!!!! My GOD. You OBSESS over me!
Anyway, that whole business with the e-mails should make most on here happy – they were able to start the whole “lots of people are attacking the PWC police” discussion. It’s funny though – that other thread referred to above – wasn’t exactly a vote of confidence to the PWC Police way back then in March 1998. Apparently it wasn’t even thought they could make proper decisions about probable cause and would launch into knocking on doors and so on! At least that’s how I read that thread.
Believe me, obsessing over you is something I’d never do. Now, you obsessing over a certain group from WWII??
LBH, I’m not so sure that ultimately it will be those things that do him the most harm. Sure he will lose a fraction of support as a result of the Chief Deane issues (although I agree his time is past but for issues unrelated to the current debate) and the postcards can be viewed as fiscally irresponsible but in the end, I suspect a number of current and pending issues are more likely to end Captain Lipbiter’s reign as he jumps from ill-considered soundbite to intemperate soundbite, consistently shooting himself in the foot or more delicate areas.
Ultimately I suspect his next election will turn on issues of inconsistency, fiscal “responsibility” at the cost of the elderly, unpredictable stance on land use, destruction of the rural crescent and a propensity for blaming the Feds, Richmond, illegals, the SPCA, Chief Dean (anybody except the BOCS) for all of the county’s ills. That manner of “leadership” may work for a short period of time but at the end of the day, or in his case five years, he will have precious little to show for his time in the chair apart from increased congestion, debt and animosity from Richmond.
Anyway, I now see based on that thread in March 2008, it was more than just you who made the comparisons – it was one of the admins apparently who launched an entire thread about the SS! Not something I was aware of up until now.
Unorthodoxed FOIA requests are just as bad as those make FOIA requests to find out they want to know who is saying what to the various departments of the county. Thus wasting many “man hours” and paper. Those copies aren’t printed on free paper or free ink. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I think that FOIA requests should be subject to a copy fee.
I don’t want to see any private citizen being the “eyes, ears, and behind the scenes mouth piece” for any of our elected officials. Moon, you bring up a good point how would those feel if Alanna had been in Greg’s position. It would not be well received,rest assured.
I don’t want those from outside of PWC making decisions for our county. I do understand why there were emails from outside of the area, but those should’ve have never been considered in the decision making and I feel the same way about all of those brought in on the buses that spoke at the Marathon Citizens’ Time.
I think all have admitted that yes there were ligitimate concerns in neighborhoods. However, I don’t feel all were understanding of the day to day issues we were having to deal with at the time.
@GainesvilleResident
You’re obsessed with what you think MY obsession is. Wow.
@GainesvilleResident
Okay, GR. Thanks for that concession.
If you really want to know my interest in WWII and war in general, you can read all about it: http://luxuriouschoices.blogspot.com/2009/09/more-thoughts-on-war.html
@Lafayette
The whole FOIA thing – indeed whoever makes those requests ought to pay for the cost of them. Otherwise it is a drain on the county budget and resources.
I do not think either some folks have any concept of the scope of the problems – as Lafayette said, the day to day issues – and they were day to day to be sure. Who likes seeing police cars on your street or nearby every day – making arrests or talking to suspects, etc. That’s what I had to put up with. And that kind of stuff was nonexistent before the “flophouse explosion” in my neighborhood when overnight it seemed a bunch of houses turned into flophouses right after they were bought at the height of the housing boom.
I remember well, one evening right before I was moving out – a huge fight between Hispanics broke out down by Stonewall Park. Some young boy standing near me who I did not know – mentioned how happy he was that his parents had decided to move out of Point of Woods – and HE mentioned specifically due to the overcrowding problem and the resultant crime. This kid was 8 years old at the most. I remember telling him that I too was moving in the matter of weeks, and he said he knew 2 other families that were moving out for the same reason. A very sad commentary on multiple fronts – especially the fact that someone as young as that had to experience and be aware of the huge problem in the neighborhood.
LOL!
And you’re obsessed with the word obsessed, it seems!
“It should concern every person on here that some individuals had more access to your supervisor-at-large than you and your neighbors did.
”
Well the BOS were doing a great job of ignoring the issue, i.e. ignoring the 3000 pound elephant in the room, and ignoring my angry e-mails, until there was an organized movement holding their feet to the fire.
Actually, I think I’ll step away from this discussion for a bit. For one thing, if I seem in not such a great mood today – it is because at 6 AM this morning right as I was leaving for work – just a mile from my house on the main road near my neighborhood – a deer came from the right side of the road which is heavily wooded right out in front of my car – no time to brake. Let’s put it this way – a Toyota Prius is no match for a deer. I feel badly for the deer, but my car is a disaster to put it mildly. Not a fun way to start out the work week.
“However, I don’t feel all were understanding of the day to day issues we were having to deal with at the time”
lKind of like being laughably attacked by several here for objecting to the vile and embarrassing Liberty Street wall I had to endure in my city. Like being told by admitted HOA dwellers that they wouldn’t mind having it in their neighborhood, but gosh-darn, that pesky HOA wouldn’t allow it.
That was one of my all-time favorite idiocies here. I won’t bother naming the author and cheeleadrrs of that gem.
GR, each day seemed to bring a new problem, and ones that I would dare to say most would not consider putting up with for any real period of time. I sure didn’t like seeing a known prostitute parked under my mom’s shade tree when she was not home. Funny thing is a couple of weeks later she was arrested in the foreclosed house next door to my mom(which is directly across the street from me). I will not say my street is perfect now, but at least it’s just left with the basic zoning issues(trash heaps, cars on grass, etc.) Which are improving.
I know what you mean when children speak of the conditions and their quality of life. Back in June of 2007 I was at a Community Clean Up Day in Irongate. I met two rising 5th graders from WestGate Elem. and they told me that each day after school they went back to the schoolyard to pick up all the trash on the playground. They said it would make them mad when they went back to school the next morning the trash was back and sometime more than the day before from the evening soccer games. I truly regret not getting these two young girls names, because they really did deserve some recognition for their efforts. So, if we have children that can see the things we do in our neighborhoods…Why can’t some of the adults that seem to have such an opinion of our neighborhoods not understand what these kids could? I think the major factor the kids lived in the neighborhoods and it effected their quality of life, and this is not true of some of the adults that seem to want to think we’re crazy for the things we’ve said about our neighborhoods.
I think we need to look at the county government as belonging to all of us, not just the people who are the most unhappy with their neighborhoods. It makes no sense to be lining up on these battle lines where you don’t live in a problem neighborhood means your opinion doesn’t matter. It’s true that people like Gainesville Resident who were faced with overcrowded houses and rude neighbors every day became angry and motivated to do something to change that.
I think what was offered by FAIR through Help Save Manassas was too extreme. Every time FAIR has tried to push legislation on some locality in order to test its legal viability, it has always been struck down in the courts. I think that FAIR and certain politicians have some common goals, to take advantage of people’s frustrations and fears and turning that into political capital, either to win elections or to pass legislation or both.
People like to say it was all for the 2007 election. Perhaps, but what I saw in the film was a larger strategy was more geared toward 2008. Somebody, I’m not sure who, wanted to use PWC as a test case for the 2008 election. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth as a PWC taxpayer, and as a Republican who is firmly against using immigration demagoguery to win elections.
I think it’s a good thing that John McCain put a stop to that awful little plan. He is in the news again today, because is able to see beyond partisanship for the good of the country, and he wants his fellow party members to do the same.
I don’t EVER recall Corey being compared to Hitler, ever. He was called a racist, a far cry from being called HItler. Prove it Gainesville, because I certainly do not recall ever hearing anyone called Hitler, not corey not anyone.
Do some people here forget what the orignial resolution looked like in July? If you were a government employee you would be legally obligated to report someone if you believe they were here “illegaly”. Does that sound demoratic to you? SPYING and then REPORTING? Is this like Mcarthyism to you or worse, it sure sounds like it to me. I was a school counselor and I would quit in protest before I “turned in” a child or his mom or dad! THAT was the climate we were dealing with and THAT is simply not American to me!
I understand neighborhoods that changed quickly and not necessarily for the better, I live in one in Centreville. I wouldn’t advocate dragging an entire County through hell to solve an issue that had more to do with demographics than it did “illegal Mexicans”.
I do live where there were serious problems, and continue to be problems. I for one have NEVER called or thought of my neighbors illegal or legal as “illegal Mexicans”. I really think that’s a broad statement, and take exception to it, Elena.
I have followed this blog from almost day one, and I have never seen anyone use the term “illegal Mexican.”
Elena, perhaps you simply thrive on inventing hatred where there is none to be found. How about some honesty here instead?