There were a number of things that disappointed me in this article in the Manassas Journal Messenger, including a huge mistake in misquoting Chief Deane. But this part disappointed me, puzzled me, and pissed me off. The writer editorializes that 9500 Liberty,
works to demonize board Chairman Corey Stewart, R-at large, who was running for re-election in 2007 when he and Supervisor John T. Stirrup, R-Gainesville, pushed to pass the resolution.
I’m not sure what the writer was thinking when he added this perspective to what is supposed to be a straight news article. First of all, there is no call for using such a strong word. Second of all, the film does not “work” to do anything other than show Chairman Stewart being very good at what he does. If you like the idea of immigration culture wars dividing your community right before an election, Corey is no demon in this film, he’s a saint. No one in the film criticizes him. No one who spoke after the film directly criticized him. In fact, his name didn’t even come up. I was among a number of audience members who were shocked that certain of the Chairman’s most dastardly deeds were NOT included in the film. I wasn’t going to respond to the comment other than to say I agreed, but this was posted yesterday by Last Best Hope:
Billed as a film that “makes Corey Stewart look like an idiot” (this was the big quote in a MJM article from someone who got a sneak preview), the film revealed nothing I did not already know about him, while omitting many of the things he did to make himself look, if not idiotic, at least unhinged. There was nothing about Stewart instantaneously forwarding internal BOCS emails to Greg Letiecq so that the Letiecq Internet Frenzy machine could be used to bully the Board into firing Chief Deane. That was Stewart’s lowest moment and a glaring omission from the film. Stewart’s second lowest moment, or most brilliant depending on your agenda, was using county funds to send out a political post card during his “fighting illegal immigration” reelection campaign setting up the circus act BOCS meeting in Oct. 2007. While this is 10 times more predictable, it was also 10 times more infamous and more discussed at the time. I was looking forward to seeing Maureen Caddigan’s brilliant move to hold the Chairman’s feet to the fire when he tried to limit the very people he invited to participate to only one minute at the podium. I believe Stewart lost the vote 6 to 2, and the result was 12 hours of Citizens’ Time to delay a vote that was already decided before they showed up. But this was skipped as well.
Last Best Hope concludes by saying, “Basically Stewart is not in the film other than Board meetings, and I’m not sure this alone makes him look like an idiot.” I could not agree more. If anything, the film was soft on Corey Stewart, considering how it should, or could have been made. Much was left out that could follow Corey politically.
Speaking of soft pedaling, I thought the film went too easy on Mr. Fernandez as well. Most people I have talked to say that his sign hurt the Hispanic community more than helped it, by handing Greg Letiecq a perfect gift with which to demonize (here is where the word is apt) the Hispanic community. Greg got more mileage out of that sign. He signed up more people because of it than he ever would have with his laughably manipulative pictures of men with ski-masks holding machine guns.
The voice over in the film criticizes the wording of the third sign, which was over-the-top offensive, but only because the inflammatory language could endanger his kids. A fair point, but it did more than endanger kids, it pissed a lot of people off, of all races, who might not otherwise have been that critical of the sign. Fernandez insulted the very people who were actually trying to help; the coalition of people who were working to fight back the powers of darkness ended up being included in the broad-brush insult.
I don’t think Elena was specifically referring to the posts on this blog when she mentioned “illegal Mexicans”. I heard that term at the BOCS meeting and too many posters on BVBL also equated illegal aliens with Mexicans – disregarding the diverse nationalities of people illegally here.
One doesn’t have to stray very hard from home to hear that term used. I can turn on my TV and hear ‘illegals’ and ‘Mexicans.’ So in that respect, I don’t even have to leave home.
Why the shock? Elena didn’t say someone on this blog used the term. She would have probably taken it down if they had.
“If you were a government employee you would be legally obligated to report someone if you believe they were here “illegaly”. Does that sound demoratic to you? SPYING and then REPORTING? ”
Yes. The laws of this land should be respected. And we are/were in crisis mode.
It’s either illegal, or its not. We don’t let citizens molest kids even if they looked older and signed a consent form. We don’t let people grow or smoke pot, even if noone is gatting obviously hurt from it. We don’t let people not pay taxes, even if they are hurting for money. But on this particular law, you are content to see it as a joke. i’m not. i’m fighting mad angry at our ruling class for colluding to make it into a joke. And I won’t accept it as a joke.
Rick, how are government employees supposed to know if someone is here illegally? If I walk up to the library, pool, tax office, permit counter, am I ,and the oodles of citizens already standing in line, supposed to provide ID? And what type of ID – passport, driver’s license, birth certificate? If I have five kids in tow and want to check out their books, does each child have to show ID? When the lines get to be like those at an airport check-in counter, are you going to be smiling?
Rick,
Sorry, we are not in crisis mode when it comes to immigration. We are in a financial crisis….yes, a health care crisis…..yes, but immigration crisis……….no. We weren’t when it was the I-talians, the Irish or the Jews.
If you want to go back to McCarthyism, be my guest, that was NOT an era where Americans should look back with pride in my opinion.
Rick, the county did not have the authority to mandate its citizens spy and report. How on earth would I know someone’s status anyway, unless they told me?
Right now, the United States has no way to monitor who leaves the country on a visa, despite mandates by Congress to see that it happens. If we are that much off target there, how can you expect things to be different on the local level. I don’t want to live in a police state.
Obviously molesting kids is not on an equal footing with welching on your taxes or smoking a joint or 2. Overstaying a visa is not the same as child molestation.
MOM – Wally might be the cleverest member of the BOCS. His main goals are opening up all of the Brentsville District to dense development, killing off the Rural Crescent, and running sewer to anywhere a developer wants it. However, remember that Wally, not Corey and John, created immigration as an issue in PWC when he asked for a study of how much the County spends on illegals. He then sent a bill to then-VP Cheney and Speaker Pelosi, admitting that this gesture was purely symbolic. When the battle over immigration heated up with everyone inflamed and spiraling out of control, he quietly went back to his real, pro-development agenda while hardly anyone was paying attention. He’s already raised almost $60,000 since the last election, mostly from developers and developer interests. Pretty smart I think.
Elena was one of our strongest advocates for the Rural Crescent and for stopping the idiotic surge of residential development that was the main cause of the housing collapse in PWC. Now, here even she is arguing about who called whom a racist or whatever. Elena – you are needed back where you were making a difference!
News flash – the developers of Avendale, a proposed 125-acre, 100% residential development located just behind the Harris Teeter shopping center (of course in the Brentsville District) have rescheduled the Planning Commission hearing for November 4 (the day after the election) and the BOCS hearing for January 5 (the week kids return to school). If approved, this development would have as many as 500 new units in an area that is already congested with overcrowded roads and schools, impose a huge burden on PWC taxpayers, and shift back the boundary of the Rural Crescent.
The PWC Planning Office expressed only one reservation about Avendale– that the developer realigns Vint Hill Road. Vint Hill Road is the traditional boundary of the Rural Crescent. Accommodating the Planning Office (i.e., Griffin and Utz) means shifting the development area into the Rural Crescent.
If you care about congestion, high taxes, overcrowded schools, collapsed housing prices, the integrity of the Rural Crescent and such issues, please plan to attend the Planning Commission meeting on November 4 to stop Avendale. We can kill overdevelopment before it climbs back out of its coffin.
Censored, yeah you have to provide ID for things. Including getting a library card and checking out books. I always did, everywhere that I lived. And people still do. And no one should get a free pass on that just because they don’t speak English.
“I don’t want to live in a police state.” Well, it’s all relative and in the eye of the beholder. To use the child molesting example again, which i use because I assume we all find it reprehensible, I’m sure the guys at NAMBLA feel they’re living in a police state, especially if they actually get prosecuted and jailed for what they consider consensual sex. I don’t consider having to show proof of identity equivalent to a police state. I grew up in fact believing that I WOULD have to show proof of citizenship or residency or identity before getting a library card, or after a traffic accident, or so on and so forth, much less before getting a federally subsidized home loan of enormous proportions. Somewhere along the way this became a very different America than the one I gew up in and the one most of us were told we were working to maintain.
I have talked to people and no one seems to recall seeing the reporter at the film on Friday night. I had assumed the MJM was represented by the blonde lady with the fancy camera. Then when the by line was Uriah Kiser, I was surprised.
It really doesn’t sound like he saw the film. Corey Stewart was NOT demonized–not even close.
Rick,
Are you equating immigration to pedophiles?
@Elena
Unfortunately, I remember all too well, Elena. The movie brought me right back to that time.
I am surprised no one responded to the comments made about the sign and its owner in the original post. Odd, that everyone wanted to fixate on what they think appeared or didn’t appear on this blog.
That tells me that the main mission was to attack Anti rather than discuss issues.
OH! It’s Mr. Miyagi, over here!!
@Elena
We’re not in a health care “crisis” except for the one liberals need to pass through their massive power-grab.
“Are you equating immigration to pedophiles?”
No. I’m trying to point out the laws and rules are necessary, and so is enforcement of those rules, even if a disaffected minority claim it’s the work of a “police state”.
Slow Person, I know that you aren’t a big fan of the Civil Rights Movement, but that quote is by Martin Luther King, Jr.
Elena, thanks for reminding me about the original Immigration Resolution. I had forgotten how unAmerican it was. It’s not just the people who would get turned in by their teachers or counselors, it’s the climate of fear and suspicion that would have resulted from a society where every government employee is expected to turn people in based on suspicion of being an immigrant. That is scary.
@Censored bybvbl
But remember, where I originated from when it comes to blogging! 🙂
I think most on this blog once upon a time posted on the other, until they were censored.
@Moon-howler
You’re talking about Mr. F’s sign, right? I think the first two versions were great. After that, they got angry and ceased to accomplish anything besides pissing people off. I still think he should have erected a permanent sculpture or art piece showing immigrants’ contributions to PWC and Manassas. Would have been nicer looking and more effective.
Lafayette, you are so right. It was a mistake for Greg to censor us on his blog, because the end result was that everyone in the county who disagreed with Greg (that’s 99.9 percent) would have to post here instead of there. There is no dialogue over there any more. It’s just Greg posting something just a tad to the right of Glenn Beck, and his three followers saying “yes sir E bob.” Greg has become a one man sideshow.
Senor F’s sign got progressively offensive. I feel his actions did a good deal of damage to his “cause”. The real problem with the sign was it was in violation of zoning laws. The original sign was on the side of a burned down house that had a permit to be demolitioned and that was not done. The remaining side of the house became his canvas of sorts. Not mention his anger was misplaced. The sign addressed a policy in PWC, while the sign was in the Manassas City limits.
The sign did play into Greg’s hands, M-H, as you said. But it also got headlines and got people to pay attention to what was happening, and no one else had a better idea for how to counter the hostile takeover of our county government. I think his words were crude and insulting and painted all of us with a broad brush, but I also know what he meant to say. I would probably be guilty of making some broad brush statements if I tried to argue politics in my second language.
@Witness Too
Good point Witness Too. I was censored over there and more than once. Now, that was a top poster of that blog, and from a person who is as opposed to illegal immigration as Greg et al are. I’m just more comfortable speaking freely and for myself and my family. I don’t need to be part of any group to have my opinion matter. We all have a voice in this great country, but not enough get exercise that right.
Lafayette, I never really understood why it should matter where the sign was. You can’t get to Manassas without driving through PWC, so if he didn’t like the idea of police being forced to do checks on anyone who looked “illegal,” then he had right to protest even if he lives in Manassas.
@Witness Too
He certainly does have the right to protest in Manassas. I just feel it was an unneccessary “black eye” to the city. I think of all the passengers on the VRE and Amtrack that did not know the difference. That’s really my point. I guess I wasn’t clear. You’ll be hard pressed to find anyone that knows the two cities lie within in the county and each respective city’s city limits. 🙂
I wonder if I unfurl a big NAMBLA sign downtown if I’ll be allowed to leave it up for a year or two.
“Manassas homophobes, stop your prejudice against boy lovers! Free Johnny Smith, accosted by homophobic racist cop Ted Johnson!”
PWC and Manassas City the National Capital of Homophobia
For centuries gay men have been kept in the closet by violence and systematic discrimination. Today’s actions of these prudes are similar to the gay beatings such as the one that killed Matthew Shephard. “Vice laws” and “child molestation charges” are used to detain and question men whose hearts are full of love, and to impede gay development. PWC and manassas City persecute us with our own tax dollars, because they would rather have a ghost town than live amongst gay men. they ignore our voices and our rights. There is no democracy. We cut and style your hair, we lead your boy scout troops, we teach in your schools and coach your Little League teams. There is no democracy. Stop the persecution, we demand equality and justice for ALL. We will not go into your closet, we will not let you remove our sexuality and castrate us.
(and then I’ll draw the little black anarchy symbol in the bottom right corner)
I wasn’t around during the Civil Rights Movement. So if you look at the quote as written, it’s quite reflexive. The first clause is equal to the second clause. X is X. Or is the quote messed up?
This is in response to MH saying “no one responded to the comments about Fernandez’s sign”. Well, I did – there’s the living proof of it – that post is near the top of this thread!
Gainesville, sorry to hear about the Prius and deer “run in” this morning.
All versions of his sign were racist – and when someone writes racist thoughts – he or she is racist. It is interesting though so many here drag out the racist term and falsely accuse those of racism who or not, but fail to see a blatant racist right in the midst of this whole thing. After all, I keep hearing how “9500 Liberty” sign is at the center of this whole debate. A racist sign at the center of the debate – how nice. Not to mention his latest creation, attacking a police officer. Very nice. Something indeed to be celebrated!
I can just imagine the kind of permanent sign he would have erected – a nice example of blatant racism to further help try to ruin what otherwise is a the very nice downtown area of Old Town Manassas. His sign was a blight on the downtown area, from day one, and good riddance to it. He wasn’t even smart enough to distinguish Manassas from PWC. Yet his racist signs are celebrated in many quarters. Oddly enough – on here it is often suggested that followers of bvbl are racist. I would turn the tables and say followers who agree with his signs, particularly the last one, are racists. I’m sure though I’ll hear how once again, it isn’t a correct representation and there’s nothing racist in supporting a sign with such a disgusting message. As there are a lot of people who seemed to support even the last version of the sign, that does seem to say there’s a lot of racists out there.
And no one is denying his freedom of speech by the way. But once you invoke it, others have the right to criticize what you said, or else THEIR freedom of speech is being denied. Which is funny, as on here it’s been suggested people disagreeing with a certain point of view should keep quiet, or “stop whining”. Freedom of speech, folks.
@Lafayette
I’ll post photos on my Facebook page, which you can see, shortly. Could have been worse, but not a good way to start out the work week on the way to work. I felt bad for the deer too, but nothing I could do about it. Ran super quick from somewhere in the woods right into the right side of the two lane road. It all happened in a blink of the eye – didn’t even have time to take my foot off the gas pedal let alone hit the brakes. Can see where the feet impacted my hood in two places – scraped the paint off of it in those spots!
@Rick Bentley
Very funny! Unfortunately, not all that much more over the top than what was actually written on the last version of the sign. In some ways a sad commentary on the state of things.
@Gainesville Resident
Thanks. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for the pictures. I just saw a piece on tv and it should a sign that said caution DEER CROSSING, but it had a picture of an elephant on it instead of a deer. I think it was in Alberta, Canada.
oops..showed a sign. I’m too pre-occupied with my excellent smelling soup. 🙂
Indeed, and when the sign is featured prominently in the media it gave Manassas a black eye as once again, people not from PWC or Manassas (even many people in nearby counties) don’t realize Manassas is a separate jurisdiction. One would think a resident or property owner (I’m not sure which he is) of the City WOULD know the difference. He’d have to actually – the property tax bill would be paid to the City of Manassas – NOT PWC. And of course City of Manassas – NOT PWC took him to court. He either didn’t care to make the distinction, or purposely didn’t for some reeason – whichever, it was very unfair negative publicity. I’m sure a fair percentage of those on Amtrak would have no clue the difference between Manassas and PWC. Oh well, whoever said that the whole thing about the sign was fair anyway. I’m sure he could care less about lowering property values around his sign. Then again, his property was a mess even before the sign – and certainly not enhancing any property values near there.
I saw another dead deer up on Fairfax County Parkway south just past the intersection of Sunrise Valley Drive this evening on the way home. And last week I remember seeing yet another dead deer on the northbound side. If they put up a deer crossing sign for every place a deer has been hit lately – there’d be deer crossing signs all over the place. I will say, given the number of deer who have showed up in my backyard – I was just thinking the other day it’s only a matter of time before there’s a deer hit somewhere near my neighborhood. Must have been some kind of creepy premonition I had – as that was just last week after seeing on there and seeing the dead one on Fairfax Parkway.
“I don’t need to be part of any group to have my opinion matter.” @Lafayette
And on that note, perhaps when some here are attacking a dissenter, perhaps they can think of the person they are attacking and just listen, and not reflexively invoke their hatred against BVBL/HSM against that person. That seems to be the take-home from the concerns GR has expressed today. Am I right, GR?
@Gainesville Resident
Actually, he had MLK quotes on the second version. And I can completely understand his anger. But in later versions, the sign also took on the fury of the Native American groups he has been working with. While I completely understand that anger, first, it detracted from Mr. F’s real issue and second, the expression of it on an already contentious sign proved ineffective at best. The sign was at first an interesting kind of blog (which is how it was described in the 9500Liberty film). It got out of control, however, and yes, painted all white people as racist which makes those statements racist.
That said, I think the first two versions of the sign were effective and even warranted.
@Emma
Emma, GR has received repeated apologies from me and others. He apparently doesn’t want apologies, however. You can’t MAKE someone accept your apology.
Pinko, I wasn’t being that specific as far as things you specifically might have said. Some of us have had more than our share of being called “Greg clones,” for example. The tenor of this blog has changed quite a bit, though, and fortunately that stuff is fairly rare anymore. Dissenters are not a monolith; they are people with genuine concerns and much more nuanced points of view. That’s all I was saying.
@Emma
“Dissenters” are also, humans and should not be attacked for their views. We all have some of the same problems,and some different problems. Of course, those sitting in a more rural setting and newer houses are not facing the same issues we are. I’m sure they have their issues too, that we might not be faced with by “livin’ in town”. I would be sympathetic to their concerns and NOT questiont heir intentions. I do feel my intentions of neighborhood issues has nothing but wanting a safe, clean, and decent place to live and finish raising my daughter.
pardon the need to insert a few words.
I do feel my intentions of neighborhood issues has nothing *to do with* but wanting a safe, clean, and decent place to live and finish raising my daughter.
@Lafayette
That’s most people, Lafayette, and it’s a perfectly reasonable desire. It’s not reasonable, however, to try to rectify those issues by attacking a federal one that has no relation to the real issue, and attacking people in the process–i.e. if your lawn is overgrown and you are Hispanic, you must be illegal and I should do everything I can to persecute and then deport you.
@Posting As Pinko
Well said Pinko. On the other hand, those people who were so upset and afraid were only offered one solution, and the messenger was very persuasive and well connected. I can understand how they became ensnared. It could happen in any community under the the circumstances people were facing in the Manassas area.
@Emma
Very true! People dissent for a reason. And I do believe there are solutions out there that are productive and peaceful. Unfortunately, I do not believe the original resolution was such a solution.
And thanks for letting me know your intentions, Emma.
At the end of the day, Anti really is just a blog, and no matter how useful or not useful blogs can be in the media, it’s what we do in the real world that counts.
What ARE we doing in the real world? Are we ranting in the streets and trying to spin everyone up, or are we finding peaceful solutions? I think that’s what it comes down to.
Sorry to take your time to read a silly post, but PAP you must be talking about a different thread since I didn’t see an apology. I feel for GR as this blog has kept me away for months when all I said was let’s start talking about solutions. Then I asked some pretty simple questions, and “sassy lady” as she was described sent venom out. That is not “sassy” but I have another term for it.
Also, I see with some humor that people are still railing against the orginal version of the resolution that didn’t even pass! That, my friends is what is called “politics”. Position, debate and then resolution. Oh and lest anyone forget, the one that passed did so UNANIMOUSLY. I even saw John Jenkins shortly thereafter and he told me that something had to be done.
So this is getting laughable and I appreciate all of your contribution to my enjoyment. It is so much fun seeing that when people can’t progress from a position, how they reinvent history.
And so I say in the words of a pillar of astuteness, TFB.
I’m not sure I’ve seen that view represented by anyone on this board, Pinko, but often people have responded as if they did. It’s one thing to attack someone’s views because you vehemently disagree with them; it’s another thing entirely to see that person as nothing more than a punching bag with BVBL/HSM printed on the front.